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Grace - Abcess Brewing?

GPTV

GPTV

Rescue Buddy/Senior Guinea Pig
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I went out to put the girls in for bed last night & Grace had a slight lump on the left side of her face.
Its not a big or particularly noticeable lump although she has quite long hair.
She still seems to be eating ok although maybe slower than she used to-but she is about 5yrs old &slowing generally anyway.

I've managed to get her an appointment tonight but they were fully booked for my usual savvy vet, so I've had to have a different vet at their other practice. He's a lovely vet but more of a larger animal vet, I'm just afraid I'm going to forget to ask something important.

I've not had much experience with abcesses.
I know if it is one , I have to ask for the big guns of zithromax to start off with &loxicom for the pain.

How's the best way to tell if it is an abcess?
Xray, check the contents via a needle the same as a possible fatty lump, will he try lancing it straight off or would it be best to just hope it clears with the antibiotics? If it doesn't erupt first?

Can anybody suggest anything else it may be?
Its on her cheek area so I'm just assuming its an abcess at the moment.

Any advice appreciated, her appointment is just after 5pm today.
 
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GPTV said:
I went out to put the girls in for bed last night & Grace had a slight lump on the left side of her face.
Its not a big or particularly noticeable lump although she has quite long hair.
She still seems to be eating ok although maybe slower than she used to-but she is about 5yrs old &slowing generally anyway.

I've managed to get her an appointment tonight but they were fully booked for my usual savvy vet, so I've had to have a different vet at their other practice. He's a lovely vet but more of a larger animal vet, I'm just afraid I'm going to forget to ask something important.

I've not had much experience with abcesses.
I know if it is one , I have to ask for the big guns of zithromax to start off with &loxicom for the pain.

How's the best way to tell if it is an abcess?
Xray, check the contents via a needle the same as a possible fatty lump, will he try lancing it straight off or would it be best to just hope it clears with the antibiotics? If it doesn't erupt first?

Can anybody suggest anything else it may be?
Its on her cheek area so I'm just assuming its an abcess at the moment.

Any advice appreciated, her appointment is just after 5pm today.
Click to expand...

In that position, it is most likely to be an abscess, but only your vet will be able to tell you when he examines the swelling. All we can do is guess as much as you do! The wait when you have got an ill piggy with a fast swelling lump is very hard to bear, I know. I always find it easier once I know where I stand.
Any actions depend on your vet's findings, on the nature and state of the lump and where it sits. You have to go along with that and take it from there. Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Check how your piggy is eating; it may become painful depending on where the lump is located. If necessary, top her off with syringe feed and water.
 
Not long got back from the vets, he said her teeth looked good,(although quite a bit of carrot top-oops never give that a thought when I gave her some in the carrier)

Vet said it looked like it could be her lymph gland, but checked her back leg ones too &thinks its more likely an abscess.

Said he didnt want to give antibiotics yet as it would go down only to come back in a few weeks or months.
He didnt want to lance it as it wasn't close enough to the skin&sticking to it, so the infection/pus would spread through her body.
He suggested to see her in a week or before if it changes &he'll decide on treatment then.

She's still eating normally &plenty of poops in the carrier- so its ok for now!

I'm thinking of getting her some supreme recovery plus 'just in case' but does anyone know what the difference is between the recovery &plus versions? It looks the same just different prices.

I had critical care before &ellie wouldn't touch the stuff, so hoping its as palatable as they claim it is!
Xx
 
Sorry but I don't agree with what the vet has said at all. Antibiotics won't make it go down, just to come back up later. You also don't just lance straight into an abscess that is deep. It needs to be marsupialised (stitched to the skin and then lanced). Dealing with an abscess in this way ensures that pus doesn't leak under the skin. It doesn't sound like your vet is experienced in dealing with abscesses. How did he check the teeth?
 
He looked in her mouth with one of those instruments like they use to look into an ear canal. Had a long thin nozzle with a light in it.
He had quite a long look in there &Grace hated it- she squealed like a diva :( bless her.

He is more of large animal vet, so I guess they see less of them than an exotics vet.
But my generally guinea savvy vet was fully booked today at the usual practice.

But I did think on the way home perhaps I should have pressed for zithromax? Would it get rid of the infection before it turns into a fully blown abscess if used now?

He said when he was feeling her face that she didnt have any pain reaction,she didnt seem bothered by it all.

I dont think he would marsupialised it today anyway as they have limited facilities at that practice, their other practice has the main surgery facilities.
I also think he would pass the op over to the piggy savvy vet &not do it himself anyway.

I feel a bit like I've failed her now, should have taken her to the main practice for the more savvy vet tomorrow instead. :(
 
You haven't failed her at all. You did what any caring pet owner would do. You got her seen by a vet quickly. My worry is that if the abscess is left it potentially could damage the jawbone. Also an abscess is going to push the jaw out of alignment which will have a knock on affect on the teeth. I think you'd be wise to get an appt with the more piggy savvy vet and then push for Zithromax xx
 
Thankyou .Shall I leave it a day or two &see if it gets bigger to confirm if it is an abscess? The vet originally thought it was her lymph glands when he seen her at first.
Oh he did say that the lump was moving under the skin &not stuck to it- does this mean the pus capsule is still not fixed to where its likely to erupt?
Is this a good or bad thing?
X
 
How big is it at the moment? I would want it dealt with sooner rather than later, if she was my pig. If it is small, there is a chance you can sort it without surgery, using Zithromax, but if it larger, then it will need to be marsupialised and then kept open for flushing, plus Zithromax.
 
I strongly agree with furryfriends, deal with it as a matter of urgency,
If it affects the bone and a condition called o s osteomyelitis sets, you
Will have your work cut out tring to keep it at bay , l know this from experience
Whilst OS is usualy manageable, it is an uphill battle

Bone Infection in Cats

Out of interest, what type of dried food do's your pig eat?
 
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Its not very big, I'd say less than 1cm diameter last night. Her hair only looks slightly misplaced on her face, but I can feel lump there Compared to the other side.

:( I should have pushed for the zithromax yesterday shouldn't I.

They all eat purple bag gp science selective nuggets, 50-100g max between the 3 of them daily.
Unlimited grass (in the summer/decent weather in run).
Unlimited hay. Variety of veg daily,
occasional fruit treats.

I'll go check her in a moment &see if I can get another appt today with the savvy vet.
At least she's still eating normally although a little slow, but she's about 5yrs now so she's slowing up generally anyway. Thankyou
 
Thanks ! GP selective nuggets are fine, l only asked as my vet suggested that the husks in some muselies could get stuck in the gum causing absess,
Let us know how you get on with the other vet
 
I have nothing medical to contribute, but I wanted to say that I think you are doing a wonderful job @GPTV
Firstly you spotted a very small lump on a fluffy pig very quickly.
Then you got her to the vet, but also did your own research too.
Be kind to yourself. :hug:
It sounds like if it is an abscess you have caught it very early, and you have received some excellent advice on how to handle it.
Fingers crossed it is quickly resolved, but so far you have done everything possible for Grace.
 
Don't feel bad for not having access to the usual vet right off the bat. We all do the best we can with what we have and that is exactly what you are doing! That said, I do think a visit to the more experienced cavy-savvy vet is in order. Abscesses won't just go away without treatment, as guinea pigs produce very thick pus that the body can't clear away. Deep jawbone abscesses can be successfully treated (Sundae had a whopper of one that was treated successfully!) but they do need antibiotics, surgical lancing and draining, and good aftercare. Wishing your pig a swift recovery once treatment is started!
 
Sending Grace bucket loads of healing vibes, hope whatever it is is gone soon. Hugs to you, and well done for spotting it so early.
 
thankyou for the support everybody.
My day went a bit manic &didnt manage to get a vets appt with savvy vet today. I'll try again tomorrow.
@FurryFriends do u think Simon &Kim from cat&rabbit would mind if I left the surgery details for my vets, in case they need to enquire more about using zithromax?
As I'm expecting them to suggest baytril first :(

When Ellie had a heart problem my more savvy vet was happy to trial the Nelio/fortekar when I suggested it.
Also they gave the hormone injections for her cystic ovaries at my request.

I dont think they normally see many guineas (apart from mine!lol!)
I'd just like a backup of a dental/abscess experienced vet suggesting the zithromax& dosage recommendations for my vets to try if needed.

Would the zithromax do any harm if given &it turns out to be a lymph gland problem?

Oh &any idea on the difference between supreme recovery food & the recovery plus version apart from the price.
I'm thinkin of getting either just in case we have food issues.

Grace is still happy to stuff her face with food &pooping well tho!
:wub:
 
GPTV said:
Oh &any idea on the difference between supreme recovery food & the recovery plus version apart from the price.
I'm thinkin of getting either just in case we have food issues.
Click to expand...

I used the supreme recovery with my sick piggy, and he liked it a lot! The only difference between the normal version and the plus version is that the plus has more added vitamin C in it. I opted for the cheaper normal version, and mixed it with a vitamin C powder that I give to my pigs anyway. That way it was easier to monitor his vit C intake, I just made sure to mix the daily amount needed into the recovery mix I gave him during the day.

Healing vibes for Grace!
 
Well Grace is still eating normally,etc. i think it may be bothering her a little bit now though as when i touch her face on that side she turns round/away.
but i have managed to get a cancellation appointment with the guinea savvy vet tonight :D

i just hope the original vet doesn't notice me if he's there today-it'll save embarrassment! he's very good with cats & dogs, but i prefer the usual one i ask for as i know he has guineas of his own too - definite bonus!

so i'm thinking i have made the appointment for..
* to ask if Zithromax can be prescribed to hopefully fight & clear the bacteria/infection in the abscess to stop it getting to the eruption stage anyway.
* to ask if marsupulisation can be done & at what stage it would need to be done on it as i'm thinking it's still quite deep **is this quite a risky op as she is 5yrs old, so i'm rather concerned about the anaesthetic / recovery side of things :(

* if its close to the eruption stage (i dont think its big enough yet) it'll need to be lanced so information on that, anaesthetic/recovery etc.
* if i leave it as first vet suggests is there a big risk of osteomylitus/teeth issues?

*Simon & Kim are away after tomorrows clinics? but will happily share any pearls of wisdom if needed before they go away if they have time.

is there anything else i haven't covered that i should be asking? @Furry Friends Rescue @Freela @gizzy

oh thankyou @Powerpigs i'm looking to order some now - thats what i wanted to know :D
xx
 
Having been through a couple of abscesses, I wouldn't think that leaving it would be an option for very long. They simply don't clear on their own, can infect the bone, and will definitely eventually impede normal chewing and wearing of the teeth over time. Sundae actually had a deep abscess where she had uneven wear of her teeth for months requiring dental filings before the lump even became apparent, and when it puffed up it got so large almost immediately that she couldn't even open her mouth properly due to the swelling. There probably isn't any benefit to waiting, as it just gives your piggie more time to be uncomfortable, to run into dental issue, and gives the pocket of infection time to leak, affect more tissue, or otherwise make the situation worse.

I would ask for zithromax if possible, as it's supposed to be the best for abscesses. Hopefully when seeing a vet with more guinea pig experience, they will be able to definitively rule out a lymph node for you so you know what you are dealing with.

There is always going to be a risk with anesthesia. The safest method of anesthesia for small animals is a gas anesthetic, so ask if this is what they are using. Although there is always a risk with any surgery, simply making a facial incision to drain an abscess is not a majorly invasive procedure. Your piggie will likely come home looking a mess, though (I'll post a picture of post-op Sundae!) and you will have aftercare to do with flushing the wound, expressing any pus that is there, and keeping everything clean and open until it has time to heal.

Hope this helps a bit! Here's Sundae post-op... first right after and then a few days later.
1391865_10153366678825557_1180505502_n.jpg

1391596_10153374196315557_1140965737_n.jpg
 
Well that felt like a successful visit :clap:
The vet examined her &said it was an abscess as it was quite firm &felt a bit warm to the touch.

I asked him if zithromax was an option as I would prefer it to clear up than need surgery because of her age.
He was happy to trial it & he wants to see her again in 10-14 days to see what's happening with it.

He was also interested to know if it works as they usually use baytril, but he's seen a few papers recently that suggest its very effective in some circumstances.

He said that as it is still in its gpig trial stages that there's some concern as to the safety of using it twice a day. So has given me 1.4ml once a day dosage (200mg/5ml strength on box).
Hopefully this sounds about right?

&I've ordered some supreme recovery,just in case :D

Ahh :wub: look at poor little sundae. Has her hair grown back normally now? Or does she have different textured/coloured hair there to the rest of her? Glad she's ok though :nod:

Thankyou for all the advice.
Grace has had her first dose &stuffed her face with carrot tops as a treat &now gone back out in the garden to play until bedtime :zzz:
Xx
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
How much does your piggy weigh?
Click to expand...


The vet weighed her in there &it was 1.120kg
She used to be a chunky 1.4kg but has steadily dropped weight with age ,over a year or so period(&shares with 2x lardyarses that make her move to get her food before they eat it!)
X
 
We dose at 1 ml per kilo so a dose of 1.1 ml would be what we would give. If the piggy isn't tolerating it well,Simon and Kim suggest giving it split into two doses, so you would be looking at 0.55 ml twice a day if you gave it split. I have always found giving the full dose once a day has been fine.
 
Ok, i'll leave as it is for now & see how she gets on, i'll call him back if i think it needs splitting or reducing a little due to a problem.
hopefully it'll be the kick start it needs to beat this thing.x
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
I do think it is likely to need marsupialising, so don't be disheartened if it doesn't work. Zithromax is brilliant but it does tend to need drainage too.
Click to expand...

that's OK i'm expecting it to get worse before it gets better :(
thank you for the warning though... I have images of Grace looking like Sundae for a bit.. naww bless :(
 
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