Giant Abscess Under Chin Overnight!

[Angela99]

Hello I took my Truffle to emergency this morning as I found a giant abscess right under his chin and jaw this morning. It wasn’t there last night!
I syringe feed him a couple times a day because he is 6 years old and was diagnosed with systemic abscess… which got better so I stopped antibiotics bc he was getting sick from it and was eating in his own.
The emergency Vet was no help… they are not pocket pet trained and his specialist is only available Friday…. So we are waiting. She said it wasn’t Sepsis and it’s not his lymph nodes either.

But his lower jaw and lower teeth movement is restricted.

I gave him antibiotics this morning and tonight plus his metacam this morning… will the swelling go down with antibiotics? Vet said it should work fast. In the meantime I’m syringe feeding and giving him water and some veggies… so he is eating. I have morphine but it suppresses appetite… has anyone experienced this? He can’t have surgery. His brother passed from surgery two months ago and it nearly killed him as well a few months ago.

I don’t want him to suffer in pain and I love him dearly!

 

[Angela99]

Here are some pics

 

[Claire W]

Aw poor boy. It looks like he can’t close his mouth?

I’m afraid I have no advise but am tagging in our dental specialist to see if she can help @furryfriends (TEAS)

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

That poor boy is going to need surgery asap to marsupialise the abscess, where it will be drained and stitched open, so that it can be regularly flushed, while it heals from the inside outwards. He will also need a very good antibiotic. We find azithromycin is best for dealing with abscesses, but a combination of marbocyl and metronidazole can also give very good results.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

An abscess like that will not resolve without drainage, as even the best antibiotic will not penetrate it unless it is opened up.

 

[Angela99]

That poor boy is going to need surgery asap to marsupialise the abscess, where it will be drained and stitched open, so that it can be regularly flushed, while it heals from the inside outwards. He will also need a very good antibiotic. We find azithromycin is best for dealing with abscesses, but a combination of marbocyl and metronidazole can also give very good results.

Oh dear! No! My poor baby! Will he be ok til Friday?! I’m on a cancellation list. Hi did happen overnight? I’m terribly sad. Thank you for letting me know

 

[Angela99]

An abscess like that will not resolve without drainage, as even the best antibiotic will not penetrate it unless it is opened up.

I asked the Vet to drain it today but she did feel confident doing it. And she isn’t trained in Guinea pigs. I was hoping it would subside with antibiotics. Should I give morphine?

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

Ideally this needs dealing with asap, but if you have to wait you will need to keep syringe feeding him. Did the vet prescribe morphine? I would be inclined to just give metacam for pain relief. Which antibiotic has been prescribed?

 

[Angela99]

Ideally this needs dealing with asap, but if you have to wait you will need to keep syringe feeding him. Did the vet prescribe morphine? I would be inclined to just give metacam for pain relief. Which antibiotic has been prescribed?

She didn’t prescribe anything bc I have everything. The antibiotic I have is sulphatrim It worked very fast last time.

Yes we have to wait but I sent an email just now with photos. He’s 6 so I’m afraid surgery will be fatal. His brother just died from anesthesia two months ago and he was 3 lbs, not 2. It’s also scary for them to be alone with the vets prepping for surgery and then die… it killed me to know that was Buttercups last experience here.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

The sulfatrim that you have is quite old and it doesn't really keep for more than 3 weeks, once it is opened.

I have had many older piggies operated on, very successfully. You may need to look around for a vet who is more experienced in surgery for guinea pigs.

 

[Swissgreys]

I agree about the antibiotics being old.
For them to be effective you really need a fresh batch, so I would call the vet and ask to collect some as soon as possible.
Older medication won't be effective.

And try not to feel too bad. Our Eddi had an abscess pop up in almost the exact same place and it also appeared overnight!
It is very scary how quickly they can form.
We also called the vet right away and the operation only required a very light anaesthesia for less than 15 minutes, so it isn't a big surgery and can be done with isoflurane, which is fast acting with minimal side effects afterwards. We actually waited while the surgery was done, and he was awake within minutes, and eating hay in his carrier by the time we left the vets.

 

[Angela99]

I agree about the antibiotics being old.
For them to be effective you really need a fresh batch, so I would call the vet and ask to collect some as soon as possible.
Older medication won't be effective.

And try not to feel too bad. Our Eddi had an abscess pop up in almost the exact same place and it also appeared overnight!
It is very scary how quickly they can form.
We also called the vet right away and the operation only required a very light anaesthesia for less than 15 minutes, so it isn't a big surgery and can be done with isoflurane, which is fast acting with minimal side effects afterwards. We actually waited while the surgery was done, and he was awake within minutes, and eating hay in his carrier by the time we left the vets.

Oh okay! Thank you I’ll ask Vet for new antibiotics and keep an open mind about them draining it. His Vet is actually the best in my area so he is in good hands. Hopefully we can get in sooner, but he was happily eating this morning… he is a fighter my

 

[Angela99]

The sulfatrim that you have is quite old and it doesn't really keep for more than 3 weeks, once it is opened.

I have had many older piggies operated on, very successfully. You may need to look around for a vet who is more experienced in surgery for guinea pigs.

Vet just called and will see him today for an emergency! Thank goodness!

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

Vet just called and will see him today for an emergency! Thank goodness!

That’s good news I’ll be thinking of you both tomorrow x

 

[Angela99]

That’s good news I’ll be thinking of you both tomorrow x

Just leaving Vet. He said he needs surgery plus follow up anesthesia twice over next couple weeks to flush it out. Plus incisors came out from bone infection so he needs to remove incisors. Otherwise euthanasia.

He is 6 years old… I honestly don’t know what is best for him! What would you do?

 

[Angela99]

Just leaving Vet. He said he needs surgery plus follow up anesthesia twice over next couple weeks to flush it out. Plus incisors came out from bone infection so he needs to remove incisors. Otherwise euthanasia.

He is 6 years old… I honestly don’t know what is best for him! What would you do?

 

[Angela99]

He said also he needs to multiple anesthesia over next 3 weeks… so 3 anesthesia to flush it out. It sounds traumatizing for him to go through at this point and then he won’t be able to eat without incisors… plus he said there would need follow up treatment after that. I can’t bear it! I love him and I would rather he go home peacefully with me beside him

 

[Angela99]

Hello I saw Vet who specializes in exotics and he suggested surgery and lancing etc. He would need anesthesia 3 times in 2 weeks or so and he is 6 years old. PLUS he needs to remove incisors because his bone infection took out his bottom teeth!

His brother just died from anesthesia…. Same age… bigger pig … Truffle is under weight and I’m feeding him lots right now.

I told the Vet I need to sleep on it, and I know I can’t leave it alone because it could burst. It cost a lot as well $3,000

This infection started in September and I syringe fed him every 2-3 hours for 3 months… it’s been a long 6 months monitoring him and he hasn’t been the same from it.

My concern is more suffering… pain … plus 3 anesthesia… and no front teeth… plus…. It won’t resolve the root issue… so it will come back.

I am so sad . Allowing him to go home with his brother Buttercup feels like the bed option. I don’t have a lot of time to decide…. So I ask all of you… what happens if I leave it ? Will it burst inside and cause a massive infection?

I love him so much but I don’t know what to do

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I can only speak from my own experience of dealing with abscesses and I've dealt with a lot. You can't leave him like that. An abscess causes a lot of pressure and it will be very painful for him. With regard to the treatment you are being offered, I would make these points. An anaesthetic is definitely going to be required to marsupialise the abscess, but I have never known of guinea pigs needing anaesthetics for flushing. I have always done flushing, twice daily, at home. With a good antibiotic, once you have drainage from the abscess, I can't see what is going to be gained from removing the incisors. However, if incisors are removed, guinea pigs can still eat. The only thing they can't do is bite down onto hard foods such as carrots, so food has to be given in strips or grated. However, at 6 years old it does sound like he's going to struggle to overcome all of this and I would be worried about how much you put him through. I am firm believer in, just because we can, doesn't always mean we should. Take some time to think about what to do, but it wouldn't be wrong to let him go. He's had a lovely long life and it isn't going to be a quick fix, if fixable at all xx

 

[Angela99]

I can only speak from my own experience of dealing with abscesses and I've dealt with a lot. You can't leave him like that. An abscess causes a lot of pressure and it will be very painful for him. With regard to the treatment you are being offered, I would make these points. An anaesthetic is definitely going to be required to marsupialise the abscess, but I have never known of guinea pigs needing anaesthetics for flushing. I have always done flushing, twice daily, at home. With a good antibiotic, once you have drainage from the abscess, I can't see what is going to be gained from removing the incisors. However, if incisors are removed, guinea pigs can still eat. The only thing they can't do is bite down onto hard foods such as carrots, so food has to be given in strips or grated. However, at 6 years old it does sound like he's going to struggle to overcome all of this and I would be worried about how much you put him through. I am firm believer in, just because we can, doesn't always mean we should. Take some time to think about what to do, but it wouldn't be wrong to let him go. He's had a lovely long life and it isn't going to be a quick fix, if fixable at all xx

Thank you I really appreciate your feedback… I don’t know anyone who would understand and I know you all are genuine Guinea pig lovers. It’s killing me to let him go but he’s been through a lot in 6 months and losing his brother he loved so much. I could also ask he leave the incisors alone
… he said the following anesthesia was to flush and that he’d put a antibiotic inside bc it’s the only way to ensure it’s clean… then third time he closes the wound.

How much time do you think I could spend with him before putting him to sleep? Days? A week? I feel so rushed! He said they could euthanasia tomorrow, but I was like slow down I love my pig I need to process this. I don’t want it burst of course but I want more time

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

It's hard to know. How does he seem in himself? Is he on good pain relief? I know it will break your heart to let him go, but look at it as he will be back with his brother, who he loved so much. Hugs xx

 

[lauryn1289]

Thank you I really appreciate your feedback… I don’t know anyone who would understand and I know you all are genuine Guinea pig lovers. It’s killing me to let him go but he’s been through a lot in 6 months and losing his brother he loved so much. I could also ask he leave the incisors alone
… he said the following anesthesia was to flush and that he’d put a antibiotic inside bc it’s the only way to ensure it’s clean… then third time he closes the wound.

How much time do you think I could spend with him before putting him to sleep? Days? A week? I feel so rushed! He said they could euthanasia tomorrow, but I was like slow down I love my pig I need to process this. I don’t want it burst of course but I want more time

I’m sorry if I missed something in the thread but is it definitely an abcess? My OTRB Kip had a big lump like that on his chin for well over a year that was just a hematoma that just kept refilling. When a needle was put in it was just blood inside it. It never bothered him or affected him at all. Obviously much different if your piggy has an abscess and it’s impacting his quality of life though, not offering advice on how to deal with it but just incase.

I’m sorry you and your boy are in this situation, it’s so tough. Thinking of you

 

[VickiA]

I’m so sorry for the situation you are in. Only you can make the right decision for you and for him. It does sound like an awful lot for his body to overcome and an awful lot of after care for you. You need to weigh it all up and then make a decision that you are happy to live with either way. This part of being a responsible owner is just so tough. Hugs.

 

[Angela99]

I’m sorry if I missed something in the thread but is it definitely an abcess? My OTRB Kip had a big lump like that on his chin for well over a year that was just a hematoma that just kept refilling. When a needle was put in it was just blood inside it. It never bothered him or affected him at all. Obviously much different if your piggy has an abscess and it’s impacting his quality of life though, not offering advice on how to deal with it but just incase.

I’m sorry you and your boy are in this situation, it’s so tough. Thinking of you

Thank you I was open to leaving it as he is eating, but it must be really uncomfortable. It is an abscess because he was diagnosed with a systemic abscess in his gums and his lower teeth came out from it… he’s been on antibiotics, but I stopped when he was eating in his own again. I thought it had passed, but it came back worse. He was sick and Lethargic from antibiotics and he also had anesthesia to check his teeth at that time. He hasn’t been the same since. Lethargic and he never sleeps… he only sits upright… never on his side. So I just can’t bear it. I’ve spent last 6 months with him in my arms syringe feeding, cuddling… I have a question…. His new brother is 5 months old… do I bring him for saying goodbye? So he knows… I don’t want him confused but I don’t want to traumatize him either as he is a baby still.

 

[Angela99]

I’m so sorry for the situation you are in. Only you can make the right decision for you and for him. It does sound like an awful lot for his body to overcome and an awful lot of after care for you. You need to weigh it all up and then make a decision that you are happy to live with either way. This part of being a responsible owner is just so tough. Hugs.

Thank you… yes I feel tremendous guilt but we have been through a lot in 6 months. Up until now he had nothing for 6 years. He was so close to Buttercup, they travelled here together

 

[lauryn1289]

Thank you I was open to leaving it as he is eating, but it must be really uncomfortable. It is an abscess because he was diagnosed with a systemic abscess in his gums and his lower teeth came out from it… he’s been on antibiotics, but I stopped when he was eating in his own again. I thought it had passed, but it came back worse. He was sick and Lethargic from antibiotics and he also had anesthesia to check his teeth at that time. He hasn’t been the same since. Lethargic and he never sleeps… he only sits upright… never on his side. So I just can’t bear it. I’ve spent last 6 months with him in my arms syringe feeding, cuddling… I have a question…. His new brother is 5 months old… do I bring him for saying goodbye? So he knows… I don’t want him confused but I don’t want to traumatize him either as he is a baby still.

My first piggy Rico died almost 2 years before my boy Kip did a couple weeks ago, and I put Rico’s body in with Kip so he’d know because they were very close. It did seem to distress Kip, but I do think it helped him understand where his friend went.
I’ve lost two of my boys Kip and Bobby in the past couple weeks and didn’t show their friend Ollie their bodies, but I’m not sure if that was the right choice. I don’t want to advise you incase I’m wrong, my experience with this is very limited I would say do what feels right to you, but maybe someone else here will have better advice on what might be right for your piggy.
I’m so sorry again, it’s so difficult when you pour every bit of energy into trying to save your piggy and it ends up this way. You sound like a wonderful owner and your piggies are so lucky to have you, thinking of you and sending lots of love

 

[Wheekallweek]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Much love and prayers to you and your piggy

 

[Free Ranger]

I've just caught up with your thread and I'm so sorry. The thing with older pigs is that it tends to be one thing after another and as much as we try to help them their bodies aren't what they used to be and physically they're not always up to it. Their immune systems don't work as they should. And very often they don't realise that we're actually trying to help because their instinct doesn't have 'vets' and 'medicine' programmed into it.

One of my pigs got a huge growth under her chin (although I can't remember now what it actually was) but the vet said they couldn't drain it and stitch it up again because it would refill. So the hole was literally left open and it was a great gaping wound a couple of inches across. She had antibiotics and I had to rinse it with a dilute solution of hibiscrub (the pink stuff doctors wash their hands in before surgery) twice a day and make sure no bits got in. The idea was that it healed from the inside out. Well it actually worked for her - and bless her she never flinched. She was tough as old boots. But there was no indication that this had gone into her gums or anything like that - it seemed quite superficial - and she was fine in herself. It sounds like your poor boy has been through a difficult time already.

If the vet says he has to keep putting him under every few weeks it's going to be a challenge for any pig, never mind an older boy. He's going to get very tense every time he has to go back because he'll remember what happened before. There is a lot to weigh up and I agree with @furryfriends (TEAS) in that just because something is medically possible it doesn't always mean it's the 'best' option... especially if he doesn't understand you're trying to help. I've had a piggy pts in the past who was very obviously ready to go - she'd had enough. But I've also had a lovely mature girl pts at a point where she still felt OK in herself, because her infected pressure sore was going to kill her within days, and as she'd lost the use of her back legs there was nothing we could do about it. I broke my heart both times, obviously, but one of the vets told me that they don't put a healthy animal to sleep so the fact this was offered as an option meant my vet knew it should be considered out of kindness. It's an important part of pet ownership but one of the hardest decisions to make, even when it's made out of love. It's a decision I've always taken for myself because I've felt I know my pigs better than anyone so it was my place to make the call.

Perhaps you could also factor in how easy/difficult it is to get to your vets and get an appointment. If you have to wait 2 weeks at a time and then have a 4 hour drive it's going to be tough in an emergency. They say a day too early is better than a day too late. but if you can be fitted in at any point and it's only a 30 min trip you can afford to 'go with the flow' a bit more and see how he is day by day.

We'll be thinking of you all x

 

[Angela99]

I can only speak from my own experience of dealing with abscesses and I've dealt with a lot. You can't leave him like that. An abscess causes a lot of pressure and it will be very painful for him. With regard to the treatment you are being offered, I would make these points. An anaesthetic is definitely going to be required to marsupialise the abscess, but I have never known of guinea pigs needing anaesthetics for flushing. I have always done flushing, twice daily, at home. With a good antibiotic, once you have drainage from the abscess, I can't see what is going to be gained from removing the incisors. However, if incisors are removed, guinea pigs can still eat. The only thing they can't do is bite down onto hard foods such as carrots, so food has to be given in strips or grated. However, at 6 years old it does sound like he's going to struggle to overcome all of this and I would be worried about how much you put him through. I am firm believer in, just because we can, doesn't always mean we should. Take some time to think about what to do, but it wouldn't be wrong to let him go. He's had a lovely long life and it isn't going to be a quick fix, if fixable at all xx

We are going in for surgery tomorrow morning… I’m praying for a miracle

 

[Angela99]

I've just caught up with your thread and I'm so sorry. The thing with older pigs is that it tends to be one thing after another and as much as we try to help them their bodies aren't what they used to be and physically they're not always up to it. Their immune systems don't work as they should. And very often they don't realise that we're actually trying to help because their instinct doesn't have 'vets' and 'medicine' programmed into it.

One of my pigs got a huge growth under her chin (although I can't remember now what it actually was) but the vet said they couldn't drain it and stitch it up again because it would refill. So the hole was literally left open and it was a great gaping wound a couple of inches across. She had antibiotics and I had to rinse it with a dilute solution of hibiscrub (the pink stuff doctors wash their hands in before surgery) twice a day and make sure no bits got in. The idea was that it healed from the inside out. Well it actually worked for her - and bless her she never flinched. She was tough as old boots. But there was no indication that this had gone into her gums or anything like that - it seemed quite superficial - and she was fine in herself. It sounds like your poor boy has been through a difficult time already.

If the vet says he has to keep putting him under every few weeks it's going to be a challenge for any pig, never mind an older boy. He's going to get very tense every time he has to go back because he'll remember what happened before. There is a lot to weigh up and I agree with @furryfriends (TEAS) in that just because something is medically possible it doesn't always mean it's the 'best' option... especially if he doesn't understand you're trying to help. I've had a piggy pts in the past who was very obviously ready to go - she'd had enough. But I've also had a lovely mature girl pts at a point where she still felt OK in herself, because her infected pressure sore was going to kill her within days, and as she'd lost the use of her back legs there was nothing we could do about it. I broke my heart both times, obviously, but one of the vets told me that they don't put a healthy animal to sleep so the fact this was offered as an option meant my vet knew it should be considered out of kindness. It's an important part of pet ownership but one of the hardest decisions to make, even when it's made out of love. It's a decision I've always taken for myself because I've felt I know my pigs better than anyone so it was my place to make the call.

Perhaps you could also factor in how easy/difficult it is to get to your vets and get an appointment. If you have to wait 2 weeks at a time and then have a 4 hour drive it's going to be tough in an emergency. They say a day too early is better than a day too late. but if you can be fitted in at any point and it's only a 30 min trip you can afford to 'go with the flow' a bit more and see how he is day by day.

We'll be thinking of you all x

We are going in for surgery tomorrow morning