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Fingers crossed for Mia

It’s quite normal to see a vet of a fluctuation/drop when you stop feeding pellets
 
You mean a bit of a drop when you stop feeding pellets? Or that I may need to see a vet because of the drop? (Covids scrambled my brain, sorry). The drop has been ~70g per pig. I may weigh twice weekly for a few weeks (I stopped weighing for 3 weeks as was so ill). I'll also give them some probiotics. If any continue to drop I'll step in with syringe feed and see the vet.

As pellets are such a small part of their diet I didn't think they'd lose weight although it does make sense as they're calorie dense.

Their heft seems ok. Eris (Mia's mum) does seem a little bonier but she's never had much fat on her ribs anyway, always on her hips.

On the plus side Mia has stopped squeaking now. Only starts up when I try her with a new food, so we're definitely heading in the right direction.
 
Engel said:
You mean a bit of a drop when you stop feeding pellets? Or that I may need to see a vet because of the drop? (Covids scrambled my brain, sorry). The drop has been ~70g per pig. I may weigh twice weekly for a few weeks (I stopped weighing for 3 weeks as was so ill). I'll also give them some probiotics. If any continue to drop I'll step in with syringe feed and see the vet.

As pellets are such a small part of their diet I didn't think they'd lose weight although it does make sense as they're calorie dense.

Their heft seems ok. Eris (Mia's mum) does seem a little bonier but she's never had much fat on her ribs anyway, always on her hips.

On the plus side Mia has stopped squeaking now. Only starts up when I try her with a new food, so we're definitely heading in the right direction.
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Oh sorry, that is meant to say bit….autocorrect thinking it knows best again and I didn’t notice.

Yes, keep on with the weight checks and see what happens. If they all stabilise now then it could well be the removal of pellets.

I'm glad things are getting better with Mia
 
I bought Mia some new pellets Thursday evening and she's been on them for the past 4 days. No vocalising when urinating so far, although I'm under the impression that if she was going to she'd have started by now. Downside is it's Tesco nuggets which don't have the best ingredients. I'm unsure whether to try her with haybox pellets now as she seems to be doing so well on the Tesco ones. On the flip side haybox ingredients are so much better and something I could and would be happy to feed all of the pigs.
 
Hmmm, those ingredients aren’t great.
It’s good she seems comfortable with them
though.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Hmmm, those ingredients aren’t great.
It’s good she seems comfortable with them
though.
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I know. If I'm honest it was just for the interim. I'll try and get a bag from haybox (need to get hay this week anyway). Just the question of will it cause harm to switch pellets again?
 
Engel said:
I know. If I'm honest it was just for the interim. I'll try and get a bag from haybox (need to get hay this week anyway). Just the question of will it cause harm to switch pellets again?
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Do it slowly but the reality is pellets are such a tiny part anyway and the the ingredients are Sox much better in hay box that hopefully it will only be of benefit.
 
Thought I'd update this as it's been a month. Not long after the last reply here, Autumn had started with the characteristic bright red urine with no blood and squeaking while peeing. This would make 3 pigs with identical symptoms yet done share a cage. Certain foods would trigger it and as soon as I'd stop them the symptoms would lessen. Cystease made a huge difference to it too.

I put them on hay box pellets and all 8 pigs have been on them for roughly 4 weeks. Since then all 3 pigs have come off cystease! Mia hasn't had any for almost a week now and it's like she's never had an issue (this will probably be a case of famous last words but I'll celebrate while I can). I'm shocked how quick she's responded to the diet considering she was on almost 1 capsule a day to keep symptoms at bay.

I'm going to give it a bit longer before re-introducing dry forage. I'm going to use what I've dried so I can give one plant at a time so I know what they react to rather than give a forage mix.

Safe veggies list is small but everyone is happy with them all and no one reacts so can't complain really. There daily veg: peppers, coriander, celery and cucumber. Once a week they have a small amount of kale. Every few weeks they have grass but the growth is slowing down now so that may become every other week.
 
Engel said:
Thought I'd update this as it's been a month. Not long after the last reply here, Autumn had started with the characteristic bright red urine with no blood and squeaking while peeing. This would make 3 pigs with identical symptoms yet done share a cage. Certain foods would trigger it and as soon as I'd stop them the symptoms would lessen. Cystease made a huge difference to it too.

I put them on hay box pellets and all 8 pigs have been on them for roughly 4 weeks. Since then all 3 pigs have come off cystease! Mia hasn't had any for almost a week now and it's like she's never had an issue (this will probably be a case of famous last words but I'll celebrate while I can). I'm shocked how quick she's responded to the diet considering she was on almost 1 capsule a day to keep symptoms at bay.

I'm going to give it a bit longer before re-introducing dry forage. I'm going to use what I've dried so I can give one plant at a time so I know what they react to rather than give a forage mix.

Safe veggies list is small but everyone is happy with them all and no one reacts so can't complain really. There daily veg: peppers, coriander, celery and cucumber. Once a week they have a small amount of kale. Every few weeks they have grass but the growth is slowing down now so that may become every other week.
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This is really great news and long may it continue 🤞
 
Mia has gone back on cystease. She was doing very well until the fireworks started a few days ago. Someone's managed to get the big loud ones that you typically see at displays. I hope Po and Autumn don't have a flare or I'll have 3 pigs having flares, a dog which will be barking like crazy with every bang or pop there is, and a dog glued to me and shaking. I hate this time of year...
 
Here we go again. After bonfire night Mia's bladder settled down a bit...until new years when more fireworks went off. It settled down again until 2 weeks ago when I have her chicory. She's still having a flare.

I mix 1 cystease capsule to 1ml of water. Typically, Mia has 0.5ml but during flares she has 0.8ml. This time I've needed to give metacam alongside it. Problem is I haven't got much left and Mia hasn't been properly diagnosed with IC.

To recap:
Mia has had reoccurring 'UTI's' for almost 18 months. Had many antibiotics which didn't work. She's had urine tests to detect crystals, bacteria and blood- negative. She had ultrasound and x-ray to check for stones/masses- also negative. She's presenting as a completely healthy pig.

I worry that when I go to the vets and bring up potential IC they won't believe me or not prescribe any metacam that she'll need during flares that can't be managed with just glucosamine.

Is there any other tests they can do to confirm IC?
 
Engel said:
Here we go again. After bonfire night Mia's bladder settled down a bit...until new years when more fireworks went off. It settled down again until 2 weeks ago when I have her chicory. She's still having a flare.

I mix 1 cystease capsule to 1ml of water. Typically, Mia has 0.5ml but during flares she has 0.8ml. This time I've needed to give metacam alongside it. Problem is I haven't got much left and Mia hasn't been properly diagnosed with IC.

To recap:
Mia has had reoccurring 'UTI's' for almost 18 months. Had many antibiotics which didn't work. She's had urine tests to detect crystals, bacteria and blood- negative. She had ultrasound and x-ray to check for stones/masses- also negative. She's presenting as a completely healthy pig.

I worry that when I go to the vets and bring up potential IC they won't believe me or not prescribe any metacam that she'll need during flares that can't be managed with just glucosamine.

Is there any other tests they can do to confirm IC?
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I don’t know much about IC but I’m just wondering did a pig savvy vet do the ultrasound and X-ray? Judging by how old your post is it’s so unlikely any mistakes were made after all this time but I had a vet miss a large bladder stone on both an ultrasound and an X-ray that weren’t performed properly until an exotic vet did one. Again the likelihood of this is pretty much slim to none after all this time and probably slim to none anyway, I just got landed with a fairly useless vet that day, but thought I’d mention it just incase!

Sounds like you and your little girl have been through the ringer. Sending you both best wishes, I hope things start to improve soon
 
lauryn1289 said:
I don’t know much about IC but I’m just wondering did a pig savvy vet do the ultrasound and X-ray? Judging by how old your post is it’s so unlikely any mistakes were made after all this time but I had a vet miss a large bladder stone on both an ultrasound and an X-ray that weren’t performed properly until an exotic vet did one. Again the likelihood of this is pretty much slim to none after all this time and probably slim to none anyway, I just got landed with a fairly useless vet that day, but thought I’d mention it just incase!
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That's awful! How did your vet miss a bladder stone? They normally glow on x-ray. I hope your piggy was ok! I'm very picky about which vets I see and all have experience with pigs, ultrasound and x-rays thankfully. I have had some pretty useless vets in the past in regards to rodents so now I always ask how much experience a vet has with a particular species because of how infuriating and heartbreaking it is, especially when the animal is suffering. 😞
 
Engel said:
That's awful! How did your vet miss a bladder stone? They normally glow on x-ray. I hope your piggy was ok! I'm very picky about which vets I see and all have experience with pigs, ultrasound and x-rays thankfully. I have had some pretty useless vets in the past in regards to rodents so now I always ask how much experience a vet has with a particular species because of how infuriating and heartbreaking it is, especially when the animal is suffering. 😞
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He passed unfortunately after his bladder stone surgery :( The surgery went fine but he didn’t pull through afterwards and died 2 days after. The bad vet took an x-ray from an upward angle so it was hidden instead of taking it from his side where they should’ve. We were warned that sometimes they just don’t recover well afterwards but it was still a horrible shock when it ended up happening. By the sounds of it you did have competent vets I just wanted to say it incase there was absolutely any chance at all something had been missed! I was in shock any vet could’ve missed his lol. I really do hope your little girl picks up soon, I’ll be thinking of you both.
Idk if this would be any use at all but my boy who passed Bobby had been prescribed cystopurine (I think was the name) cranberry sachets from his exotics surgeon to add a pinch to a syringe of water daily to help with the ph of his urine which they said helps with cystitis, UTIs and any bladder issue really. If you already got something similar and I missed it in this post I’m sorry!
 
IC can’t be confirmed by tests. It can only be diagnosed through eliminating the other possibilities - UTI, bladder stones.

The fact antibiotics don’t work and no stones are present would suggest IC.

Wiebke has confirmed that flares can be set off by changes to the diet so if she isn’t used to chicory then that would make sense.
 
lauryn1289 said:
He passed unfortunately after his bladder stone surgery :( The surgery went fine but he didn’t pull through afterwards and died 2 days after. The bad vet took an x-ray from an upward angle so it was hidden instead of taking it from his side where they should’ve. We were warned that sometimes they just don’t recover well afterwards but it was still a horrible shock when it ended up happening. By the sounds of it you did have competent vets I just wanted to say it incase there was absolutely any chance at all something had been missed! I was in shock any vet could’ve missed his lol. I really do hope your little girl picks up soon, I’ll be thinking of you both.
Idk if this would be any use at all but my boy who passed Bobby had been prescribed cystopurine (I think was the name) cranberry sachets from his exotics surgeon to add a pinch to a syringe of water daily to help with the ph of his urine which they said helps with cystitis, UTIs and any bladder issue really. If you already got something similar and I missed it in this post I’m sorry!
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Oh no! I'm so sorry that you lost Bobby. You did everything you could and I'm sure he was grateful for all you did.

I haven't tried cranberry because I read somewhere that cranberry doesn't help IC but instead can make it flare BUT I don't know where I read it or if it was from a reputable source so will need to wait for one of our health experts to confirm that.
 
Piggies&buns said:
IC can’t be confirmed by tests. It can only be diagnosed through eliminating the other possibilities - UTI, bladder stones.

The fact antibiotics don’t work and no stones are present would suggest IC.

Wiebke has confirmed that flares can be set off by changes to the diet so if she isn’t used to chicory then that would make sense.
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Ok so there's no other test they can run to rule in/out UTI or other bladder problems in order to come to a diagnosis of IC?

I wasn't surprised that the chicory triggered a flare if I'm honest. Everyone else liked it though.
 
Engel said:
Ok so there's no other test they can run to rule in/out UTI or other bladder problems in order to come to a diagnosis of IC?

I wasn't surprised that the chicory triggered a flare if I'm honest. Everyone else liked it though.
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They need to have done urine tests and confirmed there is no UTI.
They also need to have done x rays and confirmed no bladder stones.

That is the only way IC can be diagnosed.
The fact it’s been going on so long and antibiotics don’t work suggest it is IC.
If she had a UTI then the antibiotics would have dealt with it
 
Piggies&buns said:
They need to have done urine tests and confirmed there is no UTI.
They also need to have done x rays and confirmed no bladder stones.

That is the only way IC can be diagnosed
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Ok so there's no other tests they can do then. That's put my mind at ease. I've been thinking of what if there's another test we've missed and if that could shed some more light on it. But we've explored every avenue so I'm happy with that.

I am treating it like IC which seems to be managing her symptoms really well until a stressful event like fireworks or a silly slave giving a new food triggers a flare.

Do you think splitting her cystease dose and giving it twice a day would be beneficial like with medications or do you think it won't make much of a difference as it's a supplement?
 
I used to give Peanut 1 Cystease capsule dissolved in 2 mils of water split into 2 doses a day. I think they need 2 doses to keep the bladder coated.
 
piggieminder said:
I used to give Peanut 1 Cystease capsule dissolved in 2 mils of water split into 2 doses a day. I think they need 2 doses to keep the bladder coated.
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Ok, I'll try that then. Hopefully that'll help get this flare under control. 😞
 
I have a feeling during a bad flare they can have 2 capsules a day but I can't find the post where I read it. I thought there was a guide about IC but I can't find that, if I find it I will link it here.
 
I've upped Mias dose to X2 daily and stopped the metacam and we're back to vocalising.

I was listening to a webinar by John Chitty on Genitourinary disease. He mentioned that stress/anxiety seem to have links with idiopathic cystitis and that he had used nutri-calm supplement alongside nutricyst (like cystease) with better results than the likes of cystease on its own.

Has anyone explored this avenue? Is there anything else that can be used to help with the stress/anxiety component. I have used Zylkene in dogs and cats to help with anxiety and stree cystitis. I was wondering if something like this could be used in pigs?
 
I can’t help but just want to offer support.
I was advised to sit and quietly read to the piggies to help with the stress of bonding.
It’s the sound of your voice rather than what you read that helps.
 
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