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Fingers crossed for Mia

Engel

Engel

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Mia has gone in to the vets today for a x-ray as she's showing signs of discomfort while urinating. This issue has been reoccurring on and off for about 6 months now. We've tried antibiotics, painkillers and cystease but it's back again.

In the event of a bladder stone that requires surgery, do they bounce back relatively well or is it one of those operations that has a higher mortality rate? The vet mentioned if there's stones that they're likely to reoccur in a matter of weeks. How true is this?

For reference, Mia is 1yr 8m and otherwise healthy.
 
All the best with her check. I don’t know how quickly they can reoccur. Of course diet plays a part and so do genetics.
 
Mia's back. No stone which is great. I need to speak with one of the pig savvy vets about what to do next. The vet she saw today didn't want to give antibiotics as she's been on them on and off for a while and they're not touching it.

Worth speaking to the pig savvy vet about interstitial cystitis? The glucosamine seems to be working and she only has a flare every now and again which lasts a week (metacam is given and cystease dose is upped a little). Then she's ok for a month or two, then it's a repeat (our longest time between flares is 6 months).
 
It’s good that it wasn’t stones. There is no harm discussing with the vet and see what they think.
 
I’m glad it’s not a stone.
Yes it would be worth speaking to a vet about IC particularly if she has been on antibiotics and it’s not helped (which it wouldn’t if it was IC).
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m glad it’s not a stone.
Yes it would be worth speaking to a vet about IC particularly if she has been on antibiotics and it’s not helped (which it wouldn’t if it was IC).
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In the past year she's been on baytril for suspected UTI about 5-6 times and it's never worked. We've done 2 week course and it doesn't seem to have any effect.

I've been reading threads on here and on guinea lynx where piggies have presented just like Mia and have had no stones UTI or anything and it's been IC.

I've noticed certain foods trigger her, like radish, carrot and parsnip skins for example. I tried to let them have a varied diet regarding veggies but I think I'm going to have to rein it in and stick to the bladder friendly diet recommended on here.

Does encouraging her to drink more help in the case of IC? Mia's not a massive drinker in the first place so I'm wetting the veggies to help her get more fluids.

Here's what I'm doing to try and help:
She's having filtered water and bottles are placed near hiding spots so she doesn't feel exposed and hopefully encourages her to drink more. Bottles are refreshed daily and sterilised once a week. There's also a water bowl.

I'm thinking of splitting veg into 2 meals, one in the morning and one in the evening. As mentioned before I wet the veggies.

I'm going to stop giving her forage for the time being to see if that helps and I'm dropping the pellets to 2tbsp for 3 pigs just in case there's some calcium crystals in there that are making her bladder unhappy.

I'm going to up her cystease until we see the other vet next week and add some metacam if she gets really bad over the weekend.
 
It sounds like you’ve got everything in hand.
Definitely lay off the root veggies though as recommended in the diet guide for bladder piggies
 
Thanks all.

I've been reading up on IC and there really isn't much information out there. I did however find that soy is a common bladder irritant in people who suffer from IC. I feed the pigs science naturals grain free and it contains soy. They are given them in the evening and I have noticed that most of Mia's squeaking is in the evening/night after pellets. Is this just coincidence or could it be a trigger for her? If there's a potential for it being a trigger, why does it not seem as bad during the day?

This 'flare' has lasted a little under 2 weeks and has come to a natural end although her tummy is a bit sensitive if you poke it a lot. Yesterday she only vocalised a few times when peeing and that was after having pellets. I've logged how many times in the past 2-3 days how many times she's had a painful wee which is a total of 9; where as before it could be that in the space of a couple of hours.

Do you think it's worth trying a different pellet when her bladder as settled or is i
 
It’s possible it’s her trigger.
All you can do is experiment and see what helps - either by going pellet free or by trying a different brand.
Do you still get your hay from haybox? Have you tried their pellets?
 
Piggies&buns said:
It’s possible it’s her trigger.
All you can do is experiment and see what helps - either by going pellet free or by trying a different brand.
Do you still get your hay from haybox? Have you tried their pellets?
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I do still get hay from haybox. The main worry I have about going pellet free is vitamin D. They're indoor pigs now so that's something I need to bare in mind. Haybox hay is dried via machine not the sun if I recall so I'm not sure it'll have enough vit D in it.

If I were to try different pellets it'd be haybox pellets anyway as there's only a small selection to choose from as I'd need grain free and soy free with calcium and phosphorus being nice and balanced (I'll check the haybox ones) as Basil (Mia's husboar) had a lot of calcium pees when he came to me and since being on SS its practically disappeared. I don't want to split them to feed them as this stresses both Mia and Eris (Mia's mum who she shares a cage with) which will only cause more issues.
 
How quick can you notice a difference in regards to potential trigger foods? Mia didn't have any pellets last night and she didn't squeak once. Her diet is a bit limited at the moment just hay, pepper, cucumber and celery. I think she's a bit shocked, looking around for the extra food then looks at me almost to say, "where's the rest of it?"

I'll keep her like this for a couple more days to see how she goes, if there's no squeaking then I'll add pellets and go from there.
 
Mia had some pellets tonight and she's started squeaking. I'm going to leave her a few days without any pellets to see if it goes again, then reintroduce so I'm 100% sure it's the pellets and not coincidence. Thankfully I think what ever she has is more on the mild side as it hasn't affected her weight or appetite at all.
 
So it appears we're on the quest to find out what upsets Mia's bladder. So far pellets and Romaine is on the list. Will try coriander next, then potentially grass or spring greens.

She seems ok on hay, pepper, cucumber and celery.
 
You are doing a great job - it's a long process but fingers crossed you come up with a solution for Mia.

I had a similar thing with Lucy who struggled with bloat and IC, so she ended up on quite a limited diet, but she did well on it.
 
It’s good you’re able to work out what she can tolerate and what triggers her. You’re a conscientious slave 😌
 
i hope you can discover all the triggers.Cavia complete pellets contain no grain,or soya.mine seem to like these.rosewoods pellets are grainfree and soya free.goodluck.
 
Siikibam said:
It’s good you’re able to work out what she can tolerate and what triggers her. You’re a conscientious slave 😌
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Thank you. Can you see my halo shining? 😇

In all honesty it's been almost a year since this started so I think it's time we've got it sorted for her. I'm surprised how little information there is, even in regards to people. It feels like I'm stumbling through the dark with her at the moment though.
 
eileen said:
i hope you can discover all the triggers.Cavia complete pellets contain no grain,or soya.mine seem to like these.rosewoods pellets are grainfree and soya free.goodluck.
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I hope so too. I'll be happy if I can find 6 veggies to cycle through and a pellet she likes. Will have a look at those. @Piggies&buns mentioned haybox pellets are grain and soy free too.
 
Didn't have any spring greens in the house but had Savoy cabbage left over so I tried her with that. So far so good.

Looking back through this thread I've noticed inconsistencies so I'll correct them here as I can't edit posts now.

Mia would have had this issue for a year in October. I didn't realise it's been that long. I noted her first 'episode' on 'Engels Herd' thread. It started the same week Basil had his neutering.

During her 6 months of no flares she did start squeaking a few times but I'd up her cystease dose as soon as I heard her from 0.5ml to 0.75ml for 2-3 days. She'd only have squeaked for 1 day so don't really class that as a proper flare up.

I've started to properly log when and how often she has symptoms as well as if there's a change in diet or what happened differently that day which may have caused stress. So far it seems food based.
 
I'm not sure if I believe this. I stopped giving everyone pellets for the time being and decided that night before last and tonight I'd give a few pellets. Mia was busy in the hay and I think managed 2 pellets as the others are them. Slight sensitive tum now. But now her brother Apollo started squeaking (only 2-3 times) while peeing after having pellets but didn't squeak at all when he didn't have any. Are you kidding me?!

I won't give him any pellets tomorrow and see if he stops again or continues. Is there a potential genetic cause for IC? Their mum is fine but she did go through a lot of stress through pregnancy (coming home, being separated from her brother, birthing the babies ect). I assume that could cause issues like IC or at least lay the foundation for it for later on in life?

I just find this so strange. It's not all the time. I've checked his bits and there's nothing irritating him nor is he sore. Hopefully it's an one off but it's very strange.
 
So since the last update I've tried Mia on Savoy cabbage which upset her bladder. Spring greens haven't yet but I'm giving small amounts and building it up. Coriander is safe.

I've not been feeding pellets to anyone for a while now (5-6 weeks I think). Everyone is still very active but theyve all lost weight! I know pellets have extra calories so wondering if that is why and coupled with the cooler temperatures that we're experiencing now I'm wondering if this is the cause.

They're eating a lot more hay so I'm wondering if it's just excess fat that's dropped.
 
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