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Dental Extremely Small Pig With Problems.

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PJam

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Hello,

I have recently rescued four Guinea pigs. They are all currently split into single pigs due to health issues and other problems.

I have a one year old male who came with a serious impaction,which I have cleaned up and monitored since. He also has a small lice burden which again has received its first treatment.
I have an 18 month ish female with fungal skin problems,who doesn't like to be touched and who I had to seperate from another pig due to aggression( possibly all down to the skin issues) she has been bathed and had spot on etc.
I have an approx 3 month old female with lice,again treated already......now we come to the little weeny pig.......
I have an allegedly nine week old pig who weighs a meagre 221 grams. She arrived with fungal skin issues and a heavy lice burden and all four front teeth different lengths and wasn't eating.
I have clippered off most of her hair( an emergency measure to remove as many lice and eggs as possibe at the outset and to get a proper look at her skin)she has been bathed and has been treated with spot on. I have filed her front teeth down to an even level. I have managed to get her to eat fresh grass,veg,readigrass and some soft hay with camomile. I also soaked some excel guinea pellets in hot water and hand fed them to her as a mash. I have yet to see her eat normal hay.
Her lice burden is much improved and tomorrow my Gorgeous Guinea's order will arrive and she can have her next bath.
Any tips or advice to help me keep this little pig on the road to recovery would be much appreciated. I have never seen such a tiny nine week old piglet.
I tried her in with the 3 month old pig who I had separated from the adult female due to bullying but the 3 month old pig was relentless with her chasing and nipping the tiny pig so I have currently housed them all individually whilst I get them well again and then i need to decide how or whether to try fresh intro's.
I am giving them all plenty of attention and they are near each other so they can see each other and wave and chat etc LOL

Sorry for epic post but any advice welcome......I need to know what sort of weight gain to expect, when should I be really worried..anything anything at all. i've not done this before but do have Guinea experience, just not with very undernourished poorly pigs.
Thank you
 
Hi and welcome

Can you please add your country, state/province or UK county to your details, so we can adapt any advice to what is available and possible where you are. We have got members from all over the world, so any advice can differ quite a lot. Click on your username on the top bar, then go to personal details and scroll down to location.

Have you had your freshly rescued piggies vet checked? And could you please add what kind of medication and treatment they are on, esepcially the sow that doesn't want to be touched at all? How long have you had them?

Have you just clipped the front teeth of the tiny piggy without checking the back teeth? In most cases, problems with front teeth are caused by issues with the back teeth, especially premolars. Please syringe feed, but very carefully in very small portions, so that nothing goes down the wrong way and can cause pneumonia down the line. Make sure that every bit is swallowed before you give the next. the inability to chew is most likely at the bottom of the weight issue.
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
I am tagging our dental specialist (who runs a sanctuary for guinea pigs with dental issues) for you. @furryfriends (TEAS)
 
I haven't clipped the front teeth,I have gently filed them in order not to split them. I have also felt and gently filed one back tooth,albeit it was difficult. She does have the ability to chew as she has eaten veg,readigrass etc but obviously as she hasn't previously been eating properly she is very tentative about hard food etc.
I am in the UK and I have had them one week. Not wanting to be touched isn't the medication, it is the fungal skin issue,where the pig in question is feeling irritated, I should have explained that first ie when she arrived she didn't like being touched at all. She's still not overly enthused but better than she was.. She has improved somewhat since being bathed.
 
PJam said:
I haven't clipped the front teeth,I have gently filed them in order not to split them. I have also felt and gently filed one back tooth,albeit it was difficult. She does have the ability to chew as she has eaten veg,readigrass etc but obviously as she hasn't previously been eating properly she is very tentative about hard food etc.
I am in the UK and I have had them one week. Not wanting to be touched isn't the medication, it is the fungal skin issue,where the pig in question is feeling irritated, I should have explained that first ie when she arrived she didn't like being touched at all. She's still not overly enthused but better than she was.. She has improved somewhat since being bathed.
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What medication/shampoo are you using for the fungal treatment? Does your vet think that it is ringworm or another fungal infection? Has he excluded mange mites, which can be both acute at the same time in badly neglected piggies with a lowered immune system? Not wanting to be touched is often typical for mange mites.
 
Last year I took in a guinea pig who was three months old and weighed 125g, which is about the weight of a week old piggy. Little Hazel looked perfect but was just so very tiny. However, on examination by my vet, it was found that her teeth were dreadful. Simon, my vet, filed her teeth and her weight began to increase. She had regular dental work and her weight went up and up. After a few months her teeth had become perfect and she has now caught up with other piggies the same age.

Your piggy needs to be seen by a guinea pig savvy vet. Where about in the UK are you based?
 
Wiebke said:
What medication/shampoo are you using for the fungal treatment? Does your vet think that it is ringworm or another fungal infection? Has he excluded mange mites, which can be both acute at the same time in badly neglected piggies with a lowered immune system? Not wanting to be touched is often typical for mange mites.
Click to expand...
They have all been treated for both ectoparasites and fungal skin issues apart from the male pig who has only been treated for ectoparasites,in the absence of clinical signs for fungal issues has only had a single bath. They have been bathed with an appropriate shampoo and have had cream applied to the various fungal patches on their skin and have had Ivermectin. My issue isn't the treatment of the skin conditions etc as I have been there before with previous pigs from poor backgrounds, it is really only the tiny pig and ensuring she gets the right nutrition,knowing roughly what she should weigh and what sort of weight gain to hope for. I have no idea if she will catch up her growth now she is being well cared for or if she will remain tiny or if she will grow and become an adult at all. This is the area I am troubled in rather than sorting out the manky skin,that's well on its way to recovery and the majority of the passengers have gone and by the time the treatment is finished all will be well.
I only included the other pigs in my post for background/accompanying info.It's the tiny pig and her size/weight/eating problem which is my main concern.
 
PJam said:
They have all been treated for both ectoparasites and fungal skin issues apart from the male pig who has only been treated for ectoparasites,in the absence of clinical signs for fungal issues has only had a single bath. They have been bathed with an appropriate shampoo and have had cream applied to the various fungal patches on their skin and have had Ivermectin. My issue isn't the treatment of the skin conditions etc as I have been there before with previous pigs from poor backgrounds, it is really only the tiny pig and ensuring she gets the right nutrition,knowing roughly what she should weigh and what sort of weight gain to hope for. I have no idea if she will catch up her growth now she is being well cared for or if she will remain tiny or if she will grow and become an adult at all. This is the area I am troubled in rather than sorting out the manky skin,that's well on its way to recovery and the majority of the passengers have gone and by the time the treatment is finished all will be well.
I only included the other pigs in my post for background/accompanying info.It's the tiny pig and her size/weight/eating problem which is my main concern.
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This is exactly why you need to see a vet who is experienced in guinea pig dental problems. What you are describing sounds very like how Hazel was and she is now thriving and growing to normal guinea pig size.

I am able to offer temporary places at the sanctuary to enable guinea pigs to be seen by our vet, Simon Maddock of The Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton. Hazel stayed here for a few months and returned home once her dental problems had been resolved and she was growing at a normal rate. The reason we get such fantastic results is that our vet is able to carry out dental work without the need for GA, so regular correction of the teeth can be done, whilst the guinea pig continues to make progress with eating.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
Last year I took in a guinea pig who was three months old and weighed 125g, which is about the weight of a week old piggy. Little Hazel looked perfect but was just so very tiny. However, on examination by my vet, it was found that her teeth were dreadful. Simon, my vet, filed her teeth and her weight began to increase. She had regular dental work and her weight went up and up. After a few months her teeth had become perfect and she has now caught up with other piggies the same age.

Your piggy needs to be seen by a guinea pig savvy vet. Where about in the UK are you based?
Click to expand...

Thank you. I weighed her just now and she has gained 7 grams since yesterday. I fed her last night and she has eaten almost as much veg as the bigger pigs! It also looks like the Excel pellets have gone down so she has definitely eaten some dry food. I poked around in the shredded paper to check she hasn't just spilled them.I can't believe the veg has all gone. She is much speedier and livelier this morning and actually ran round the cage to evade capture. My next battle is to get her to drink from a water bottle. So far she uses a hamster dish which I provided just in case and I'm glad I did now.

I would prefer not to disclose my location but she has access to some very good Vet's.

Thank you, I'm glad to hear your pig grew up and caught up.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
This is exactly why you need to see a vet who is experienced in guinea pig dental problems. What you are describing sounds very like how Hazel was and she is now thriving and growing to normal guinea pig size.

I am able to offer temporary places at the sanctuary to enable guinea pigs to be seen by our vet, Simon Maddock of The Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton. Hazel stayed here for a few months and returned home once her dental problems had been resolved and she was growing at a normal rate. The reason we get such fantastic results is that our vet is able to carry out dental work without the need for GA, so regular correction of the teeth can be done, whilst the guinea pig continues to make progress with eating.
Click to expand...

Having seen tiny, tiny 8 weeks old Hazel on her way down to TEAS Sanctuary with just the size and weight of a newborn at 100g and seeing how quickly she started putting on weight and catch up with regular dental care until her teeth were fully balanced so she could return to the rescue again, I can fully back up @furryfriends (TEAS) .
She and her vet are the best and most knowledgeable place in the whole country, as they are doing this on a daily basis and have the corresponding experience not just with dental treatment but also with the equally important support care.
Here is a little TEAS video clip of Hazel eating pellets:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=758211977566344
The Excellent Adventure Sanctuary

And sorry if you did find my questions intrusive, but I have a duty to make sure that any guinea pigs coming onto this forum from new and unknown people receive appropriate care. "Rescue" can be a very elastic concept, as can be what constitutes appropriate care; we have seen that a few times, sadly. It is great that your poor piggies are obviously in very safe hands. For the dental aspect, I have been waiting for furryfriends to come on. ;)
 
I highly recommend sending you pig to see Simon Maddock. The white pig in my profile picture, Snowy, is only alive today because she went to staty at TEAS and had treatment with Simon.

We were living in Northumberland when Snowy developed dental problems. Unfortunately my local vet was unable to treat her and pretty much gave up before they attempted. They completely bodged the dental work. Snowy hadn't eaten unaided for weeks. She lost weight, had very visible dental problems, so I decided there must be someone in the UK who could treat her, and I was determined to find them.

I contacted specialists in Edinburgh. They were unable to help.
I contacted a zoo's dental expert. He "doesn't do small herbivores".
I contacted vets across the north of England. No-one was able to help.

I was about to give up and end Snowy's suffering when TEAS came along with an offer of a temporary place at the sanctuary to enable her to see Simon, a guinea pig dentist with an excellent reputation. I packed off my girl that sunday for a journey to Northampton with piggy train volunteers. I honestly didn't expect to see her alive again. She was 700g and had a massive abscess that had developed and could hardly swallow her food. I hated sending my pig away and entrusting her to "a stranger" but it was the only option that gave Snowy a chance (TEAS is now a good friend, and the only person I trust to look after my pigs). She had surgery on the Monday instead of being pts, and she came through. She was eating brocolli unaided within hours of her surgery. At that point it had been almost 2 months of syringe feeding only. Snowy stayed at TEAS and returned to Simon for regular conscious dental work. Within 2 weeks of arriving at TEAS she was eating for herself with no syringe feeding. Once Snowy's dental work was able to be spaced out for a few months, Snowy came home. She still travels to see Simon when she needs to. With the support and help of TEAS and Simon, we've learned how to manage her problems and what signs to look for that show she needs to see Simon.

It's a scary thought, sending your pig away with strangers you don't know. I am so pleased I did it. I have a healthy girl that has just turned 4, who lives a full life of 100% quality as a member of a herd of 6. She would never have had that without treatment from Simon. There is no vet north of Northampton that can do what he does. He really is the best chance a dental pig can have at a chance of recovery.
 
Thank you for all the responses and advice. At the moment I am comfortable with keeping Tiny here and monitoring her situation. I have her in a Hamster Heaven cage at the moment, which has the same base as a Freddy rat cage ( I know it's small but so is she) which I move into whichever room I am in,so that I am able to keep a constant eye on her. I am monitoring food intake and watching her whenever she eats to be sure she is actually eating and not going through the motions. I am monitoring poo output and keeping an eye on her teeth.She's going to soon get fed up with me checking. I will move her into a Rabbit 120 cage when she is a little bigger and a little easier to catch.
I will be weighing her every day and keeping an eye on that too. I attend the Vet's twice a week every week with one of my hounds and at any point can make an emergency appointment with my own vet's who cover their own out of hours service. The surgery is also open for a few hours every day of the week including Sunday. If I feel she is in need of Veterinary treatment she will go straight there. My own practice have plenty of guinea experience and I trust them implicitly. I understand your concerns and assure you this little pig( in fact all of them) are getting the very best care from a very attentive and capable servant. If there is anything extra I need to give her to supplement her diet, please say and I will provide it. I am offering her the same amount of veg as the other pigs and she is consuming it enthusiastically. She has picked up a lot in the last 48hrs and if I feel there is the slightest chance she is slipping backwards I will take her to my Vet. The second I do not think they are managing her condition I will gratefully accept any offer of help but right at this minute in time I feel she is being well supported and cared for and I would like to continue all the while she is showing positive improvements.
Thank you again. It's good that people care,just a shame her previous owner didn't.
 
PJam said:
My post was wrong sorry,she has gained 7 grams but weighs 235 grams now not 335.....stupid sausage fingers and tiny keypad:mal:
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I hope that she will gain a bit more with every day. Just keep an eye on her teeth as she very likely will need more dental treatment.
 
Wiebke said:
I hope that she will gain a bit more with every day.
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Thank you,me too. She's a dear little thing...well, I think they all are but i am determined to give this tiny pig every chance to get better.
I was very depressed and disappointed yesterday to discover that the woman these pigs came from,who claimed her circumstances were dire and she needed to rehome these pigs, is still breeding and is advertising pigs for sale under another name and selling them to the unsuspecting public with heath problems that a novice owner might not immediately spot. I find it completely unfathomable that human beings are so selfish and don't use their intelligence to make the lives of animals good instead of just using their power over animals to their own ends. It's just plain sad but I feel that by taking these pigs I've probably only helped make room for more. I just hope that all the advice I gave about improving the conditions for these pigs hasn't just been ignored.
 
PJam said:
Thank you,me too. She's a dear little thing...well, I think they all are but i am determined to give this tiny pig every chance to get better.
I was very depressed and disappointed yesterday to discover that the woman these pigs came from,who claimed her circumstances were dire and she needed to rehome these pigs, is still breeding and is advertising pigs for sale under another name and selling them to the unsuspecting public with heath problems that a novice owner might not immediately spot. I find it completely unfathomable that human beings are so selfish and don't use their intelligence to make the lives of animals good instead of just using their power over animals to their own ends. It's just plain sad but I feel that by taking these pigs I've probably only helped make room for more. I just hope that all the advice I gave about improving the conditions for these pigs hasn't just been ignored.
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It is a very frustrating experience that sadly many rescues and private rescuers make. :(
You could complain to your local council about trading standards rather than inform the RSPCA anonymously. As long as piggies have got food, water and a cage, the RSPCA are not going to intervene, and often not even then when this is not case.
 
Disappointingly we only have a gain of 1 gram this morning. Having said that,she looks nice and rounded so clearly has a full tummy and all her veg has gone.
 
PJam said:
Disappointingly we only have a gain of 1 gram this morning. Having said that,she looks nice and rounded so clearly has a full tummy and all her veg has gone.
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Ok so panic over,I should have rechecked her teeth. i'm going to have to examine her teeth every day. I've re-filed the front ones and felt the back ones(ouch). The back teeth feel ok but the front ones don't meet so they had grown again. Once i filed them back,she started eating her hay with enthusiasm. My only slight concern is still the fact that she won't eat normal hay,only Readigrass and the hay with camomile and the hay with dandelion. I'm settling for that for now just to get her up to a better weight.
 
PJam said:
Ok so panic over,I should have rechecked her teeth. i'm going to have to examine her teeth every day. I've re-filed the front ones and felt the back ones(ouch). The back teeth feel ok but the front ones don't meet so they had grown again. Once i filed them back,she started eating her hay with enthusiasm. My only slight concern is still the fact that she won't eat normal hay,only Readigrass and the hay with camomile and the hay with dandelion. I'm settling for that for now just to get her up to a better weight.
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All the best - as long as she can eat hay herself, it is best to let her eat what she fancies.
 
Wiebke said:
All the best - as long as she can eat hay herself, it is best to let her eat what she fancies.
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thank you. I am just keeping an eye on her and making sure she is actually eating and she is. I've given her some more veg and there's plenty of pooing going on so she's clearly eating hay etc when I'm not around to watch.
 
PJam said:
thank you. I am just keeping an eye on her and making sure she is actually eating and she is. I've given her some more veg and there's plenty of pooing going on so she's clearly eating hay etc when I'm not around to watch.
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All the best. It can take time to get her teeth into balance if there is no permanent misalignment.
 
Her tongue and inside her mouth both look good and nice and pink and clean. I have both felt the outside of her jaw and put my little finger inside her mouth and felt along her teeth. I can feel no spurs or sharpness that I feel concern about.I am not going to explain how I managed to do this but she was neither harmed nor distressed whilst I did it,other than any normal reaction from a restrained GP. She did manage to bite me quite hard but I think that's fair enough,she has a small mouth and even my little finger is large to her so it was inevitable. She appears to have no issue actually eating food,her problem lies with her front teeth not meeting each other and therefore finds picking up her food a little harder than a normal pig.Once she has picked up food/bitten it,she has no problem grinding it down with her back teeth.
 
PJam said:
Her tongue and inside her mouth both look good and nice and pink and clean. I have both felt the outside of her jaw and put my little finger inside her mouth and felt along her teeth. I can feel no spurs or sharpness that I feel concern about.I am not going to explain how I managed to do this but she was neither harmed nor distressed whilst I did it,other than any normal reaction from a restrained GP. She did manage to bite me quite hard but I think that's fair enough,she has a small mouth and even my little finger is large to her so it was inevitable. She appears to have no issue actually eating food,her problem lies with her front teeth not meeting each other and therefore finds picking up her food a little harder than a normal pig.Once she has picked up food/bitten it,she has no problem grinding it down with her back teeth.
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I have looked right at her back teeth using my otoscope (knew it would come in handy one day) and her back teeth look ok. There is no damage to her tongue or the insides of her cheeks. Yesterday i rechecked her weight and she had actually lost 4 grams but she is back to 235 again this morning. I'm not going to obsess too much about her weight so long as she looks ok and is still eating,bearing in mind that she still has some growing to do,her weight may fluctuate a little anyway. She is eating Readigrass and the hay with camomile again this morning. I have softened some excel pellets with warm water and she has scoffed a load down. She still doesn't drink from the water bottles but the dish of water appears to be going down. She is quite lively and has wheeked for the first time when I took veggies up.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
It's very hard to see all the back teeth using an otoscope. I'm sorry to keep going on but I really do feel you need her mouth to be examined properly.
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Thank you. I will post again in a week or so and give an update on her progress. Until that time rest assured everything will be done in the best interests of this little pig.
 
From what you say, I am assuming you have dental skills gained from the CCT? Simon is now taking cases where the RHA's haven't been able to get the problems turned around. Simon is seeing a lot of pigs who have had lengthy dental treatment which, with all the best will in the world, hasn't made a difference. The longer the delay in getting a dental assesment, the less likely pig will be to make a full recovery. Some of the top rodentologists are now directing pigs to Simon.

I shall be taking my dental pig for a trip to Simon next week. If you are interested in seeing him yourself, I would be more than happy to have company for the journey.
 
I can't help but feel alarmed and worried for this little piggy and the fact that you are self treating a dental issue. There has been no better vet than Simon Maddock found for dental issues throughout the country so I find it unlikely you will be able to cure this guinea and you could even be making the problem worse :(
 
just a little update. Tiny is eating on her own,eating normally and now weighs in at 280 grams. She has gained 59 grams this week which is almost a quarter of her body weight. She's doing really well.
Thank you for your input,I know that everyone has the interests of the Guinea pigs at heart but please don't make assumptions. Just as people on this forum are cautious about the level of care given,new members can be equally reticent about giving over personal information to complete strangers,it is a two way street. I don't know you and you don't know me but we are all here for the Guinea Pigs. Now simply because I won't rush to send my Guinea Pig away to a person/persons or vet that I do not know,does not mean that the interests of my pet are not being met. Equally,there are many many really good GP Vet's out there,other than just those recommended on here. This is not meant to be disrespectful but please be mindful that making judgements or assumptions based on not knowing are not valid and there are always two sides to every story and more than one way of dealing with things and whilst you may be very happy with a certain vet or method of approach,it does not automatically render any other option as invalid.
Thank you.
 
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