Enlarged lymph nodes, red pea eye, lots of gas

[AngelCat]

Hi, I am completely stranded in what to do so I am seeking help here.

My mothers guinea pig, Dimma, thursday last week (7th Jan) developed some swelling/bumps underneath the eyes/on the side of her nose along with what seems like inflamed pea eye. She wasn't acting any different, but the sight was quite shocking. (I have attached images that show the swelling on her left side and the pea eye inflammation situation)
She was still her happy self asking to be picked up and fed noms.

We took her to the vet same day and she was put on a trimethoprim sulfa antibiotic, to be given twice a day, and she injected her with a steroid - in hopes of getting the swelling down. Vet believed it to be either an infection or lymphoma, seeing as lymph nodes were enlarged - green pea sized under the skin everywhere she felt for them except around hindlegs.

Over the weekend she became lethargic and we realised that she had a lot of gas build up, her sides were semi-hard to the touch and sounded hollow when tapped. We supplemented with regular syringe feeding a mix of her food (Excel) and pro-biotics (Pro-Texin for rabbits) and healthy poop soup from my piggie. Giving her tummy massages regularly and when she felt up to it a good exercise run on the floor, which resulted in a fair amount of toots and clear relief. We've continued this throughout the entire week.

She perked up on monday morning (11th Jan) but we took her back regardless as we worried for her, especially because of the gas. Vet says not much we can do but injects her with a steroid again; wait and see how the antibiotics work. At this point we had seen no change, still red inflammed looking eyes, with the bumps on her cheek (although we feel maybe one side had gone down a bit by that point.)

Over the course of the week she has slowed her intake of food and water - she still eats and drinks, but much less than before. Her poops are very small, something closer to a hamser or mouse droppings than the bulks she was normally churning, and in much fewer numbers than before.

We took her back to the vet today (15 th Jan) and vet agrees the antibiotics aren't doing anything and vet says it's time to just put her to sleep, I told her I wasn't quite ready so she gave Dimma another injection of steroid and told us to think on it over the weekend.

I am completely stranded, I feel like this can't be it. I've now read the posts about Digestive Disorders and the whole thing about not giving guinea pigs steroids! I'm shocked and quite angry at myself for not having come here first... Vet suggested we could buy paraffin oil to give her if we worry about her stomach issues, but now I don't know. I have it sitting on my table but haven't given her any yet... I'm having some severe trust issues now in regards to vets and I truly don't know what to do.

So to sum it up:
8 days ago presented swelling, red pea eye. Weight: 870g.
8 days ago vet: started antibiotics, given steroids.
6 days ago lethargic, mild gas. Weight: 860g.
4 days ago perked up, but eating less
4 days ago vet: steroid injection (2nd)
today: no change in symptoms. Weight: 850g.
today: vet: antibotics stopped, steroid injection (3rd), told euthanasia was only option as it's likely lymphoma cancer

I booked an appointment with a different vet for a second opinion on monday. I live in Iceland and we do not really seem to have exotic vets; vets are inexperienced in guinea pigs as people generally do not bring their piggies in. I feel like I am going crazy; I'm sorry for my ranting here, I just want the best for Dimma. Any advise or any kind words at this point would be so well appreciated. I sat in the car and cried for a good twenty minutes after the vet visit today and I'm just so emotionally exhausted as I feel like there should be more to be done.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Siikibam]

I’m sorry your girl is so unwell. Please step in with syringe feeding if she’s losing weight. Weigh her every day at the same time to monitor her hay intake. Not eating hay is the cause. Antibiotics also cause a gut imbalance hence the probiotic. You are aiming to feed her minimum 60ml in a 24 hour period. That equates to 5ml every 2 hours.

I would try and get her to another vet for a second opinion. Please can you add your location to your profile. Fingers crossed for you.

 

[Swissgreys]

I agree with @Siikibam
If you can let us know your rough location we can possibly help you find an experienced vet who can offer more help.

 

[AngelCat]

Thank you for your replies. I've now slept and feeling a little more clearheaded.

I've added my location in my profile; live in Reykjavík, Iceland. As far as I understand the best specialist we have in guinea pigs is in the Dýraspítallinn Garðabær, where I am going on Monday - it's the most technologically advanced (and also most expensive) that we have.

Dimma is still eating, and chomps on hay. She's eating about 10 grams of her pellets each day which is far less than usual, I'm not sure how much less of hay she's taking in. She's not lethargic and quite like herself but haunches regluarly and bites/pulls at fabrics; I'm worried that she's in pain. I have Metacam/Meloxicam (0,5 mg/ml) on hand but I'm not confident enough in giving any to her without advice.

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

I am sorry you are going through this. I think it is important you get a second vet opinion, as you are doing. I don't know if we have any other members in Iceland who can recommend one to you.

Over the years I have had a couple of pigs with lymphoma. Their eyes haven't been affected like you describe yours has but they had bilateral lymph node swellings under the jaw and in their armpits of both front and back legs. Sadly lymphoma is not curable and as a type of cancer is not going to respond to antibitics. My pigs were put on metacam to help with possible pain.

If it is lymphoma your piggy has, I think it is one of the few times steroids can be used. I chose not to have them but I believe @sport_billy did when treating a piggy some years back. I have no idea tho if they can be used alongside metacam, I am thinking maybe not.

I hope it is something else that is wrong and that you get some positive news on monday. In the meantime as others have said it is best to be syringe feeding her to keep her strength up

 

[Siikibam]

Glad to hear she’s not lethargic. One thing though is 10g of pellets sounds a bit much. It should be one a tablespoon a day, which equates to about 6g (depending on the type of pellets). I hope you can get her seen next week.

 

[Bill & Ted]

Thinking of you both, Dimma is a beauty. Hope you can find out what the cause is and she makes a good recovery soon x

 

[AngelCat]

Thank you all so much for your inputs and kind words; they've really made my day lighter. It's good to know we're not alone in this and a whole bunch of reassurance. It truly means the world to me. ❤

I am sorry you are going through this. I think it is important you get a second vet opinion, as you are doing. I don't know if we have any other members in Iceland who can recommend one to you.

Over the years I have had a couple of pigs with lymphoma. Their eyes haven't been affected like you describe yours has but they had bilateral lymph node swellings under the jaw and in their armpits of both front and back legs. Sadly lymphoma is not curable and as a type of cancer is not going to respond to antibitics. My pigs were put on metacam to help with possible pain.

If it is lymphoma your piggy has, I think it is one of the few times steroids can be used. I chose not to have them but I believe @sport_billy did when treating a piggy some years back. I have no idea tho if they can be used alongside metacam, I am thinking maybe not.

I hope it is something else that is wrong and that you get some positive news on monday. In the meantime as others have said it is best to be syringe feeding her to keep her strength up

Thank you @Pound Shilling & Pig for your insight. I truly, truly hope it is not lymphoma; she didn't have swelling in the nodes on her hindquarters. Was the onset generally sudden? It is so scary as it happened overnight here all this swelling; especially the one on the outsides of her nose/cheeks has been the oddest one - I've never seen anything like it. And it startled the Vet who was sure it wasn't a lymph node; gave her an inspection of the teeth to make sure it wasn't stemming from teeth issues.

I'm crossing my fingers that it is indeed is something else; though I do prefer to know what is wrong even if it's bad news. Thank you for sharing your experience.

Glad to hear she’s not lethargic. One thing though is 10g of pellets sounds a bit much. It should be one a tablespoon a day, which equates to about 6g (depending on the type of pellets). I hope you can get her seen next week.

Thank you @Siikibam for bringing this up! I've been very confused over the feeding recommendations as I've seen and heard about that before. But the back of the package of our food says 30 - 50 grams (Here's a website that shows the feeding recommendations) we mostly just have muesli in the stores here - I have the choice between Excel and Complete Cavia (which also seems to recommend 35 - 50 grams) as our only options of whole-food pellets. I went with the feeding directions of the package as directed, would it be better to reduce pellets to a tablespoon per day? Thanks for your thoughts on the matter! I really just want the best for our piggies.

Again thank you all so kindly for your inputs. Dimma has been really upbeat all day and happy, she's drank more and has been chomping hay all day long happily. Her gas issue seems to be slowing down, her sides aren't as swollen and the hollow sound is mostly gone; we're still giving her tummy massages as she really seems to enjoy them now. I'm very fortunate that she seems to enjoy the syringe feeding and is cooperative with that, though we're slowing down with it as she's eating more on her own and drinking much more again. The general swelling hasn't gone down though, and I keep cleaning crust off around her eyes much to her annoyance.

 

[Siikibam]

Pellets contain more calcium than high calcium veg. Given they're the chocolate of the piggy world and should only make up 5% of their diet, then a tablespoon is enough. It can also lead to unhealthy weight gain. The companies that make them will put what they want on the packaging, and it's not right. They can also make them eat less hay as they contain fillers.

I would continue weighing her daily at the same time and adjust syringe feeding accordingly. If she's still losing then you will have to aim for more syringe feed.

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Yes, in the cases of my piggies the swellings seemed to appear very suddenly too but I agree with you that the swelling on your piggy's face is very strange to be a lymph node. I hope it is something else the vet can sort out quickly for you. Please let us know how you get on, on Monday.

 

[AngelCat]

Pellets contain more calcium than high calcium veg. Given they're the chocolate of the piggy world and should only make up 5% of their diet, then a tablespoon is enough. It can also lead to unhealthy weight gain. The companies that make them will put what they want on the packaging, and it's not right. They can also make them eat less hay as they contain fillers.

I would continue weighing her daily at the same time and adjust syringe feeding accordingly. If she's still losing then you will have to aim for more syringe feed.

We will stick to a tablespoon from now on! Thank you so much!


Daily weighing resulted in 900 grams of pure piggie; +50g, note she's been drinking a lot today though. My mother swears that her lymph nodes aren't as large, but I can't tell a difference. She gave us one very healthy looking poop; though the majority in her cage still look like they belong to a mouse. I haven't seen any haunching or fabric biting today, and she's acting very happy - climbing ontop of her upper floor yelling at us for noms (as used to be the case). It's hard to resist though we feel we must continue no-noms policy for now.

The right side of her face swelling has gone down very clearly though. I'm very cautiously optimistic; it's a relief though that she's clearly feeling better.

I will keep the thread updated. Thank you all again for your thoughtfulness and kindness.

 

[AngelCat]

Hope you are all having a lovely start to a new week.

Dimma weighed 905 grams today. There has been no sign of bloating and she's been very active and happy over the weekend. The swelling of her face and lymphnodes continues, along with the pea-eye issue - although her eye isn't as red anymore.

We brought her in for that second opinion today. I had the prior vet send their record of Dimma to this new place, and then went over the timeline along with showing the vet the images of how she was when it was the worst. She decided to bring Dimma to the other vets there to have a look and get their input and brought her into the back of the practice where I could not observe. They had her for about thirty minutes before returning her to me.

She said they did not believe this was lymphoma but cervical lymphadenitis due to infection; they pricked the mass on her cheek and it resulted in a dark liquid pus. They prescribed Baytril (0.36 ml twice a day of 25mg/ml solution) along with some Fucithalmic eyedrops to be used twice a day for her eyes; if only to keep them well lubricated while we get the swelling down. She noted that these pus filled spaces can be hard to tackle with antibiotics and might need draining for them to clear up properly. They want to see us again in a weeks time and I have a new appointment next monday.

We will be on a strict probiotic schedule too to keep her gut as happy as can be through this second antibiotic.

I'm feeling more hopeful after this. I'll get some happy Dimma pictures the next chance I get for you guys. ❤

I'll keep you updated.

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Thank you for the update. That sounds hopeful that it is an infection that can be cured. Did they say to use the metacam too to help with the swelling? Hopefully you will start to see some improvement soon

 

[AngelCat]

Did they say to use the metacam too to help with the swelling?

Ah! I totally forgot about that part. They were going to prescribe it for her, but since I had it already on hand they didn't. They mainly wanted us to have it on hand if she started showing signs of being in pain, but I think I forgot to ask for what dosage to start on. I will call them today and ask about it. Thank you for reminding me!

I thought Metacam was mostly painkilling, does it reduce swelling? That sounds like it would be useful. Huh, I will ask them all this!

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Ah! I totally forgot about that part. They were going to prescribe it for her, but since I had it already on hand they didn't. They mainly wanted us to have it on hand if she started showing signs of being in pain, but I think I forgot to ask for what dosage to start on. I will call them today and ask about it. Thank you for reminding me!

I thought Metacam was mostly painkilling, does it reduce swelling? That sounds like it would be useful. Huh, I will ask them all this!

Yes. It is an anti-inflammatory pain relief

 

[alpacasqueak]

She’s such a beautiful piggy, so glad it’s not looking like lymphoma. ❤
Just to add, if you do have to step in with syringe-feeding her, don’t worry about her having exta pellets (lots of piggies seem to prefer these syringed when they’re not eating than the actual recovery ‘syringed-food’ like Critical Care etc), it’s much more important to keep her tummy full and guts moving! Just healthy piggies shouldn’t have lots like has been said.
Hope she carries on being an active and happy piggy! Keep munching Dimma!

 

[AngelCat]

We called the office and they agreed that we should give her Metacam for the swelling. They told us to give her 0.9 ml once a day, for three days. And see how that goes.

It's a 0.5 mg/ml solution, so that's a dose of 0.45mg which feels a bit high, and is way more than I've ever given a piggie before. But seems to be within the dose recommendations from the producer. (Actually seems to be exactly max dose.)

Just to add, if you do have to step in with syringe-feeding her, don’t worry about her having exta pellets

Thank you @alpacasqueak I will keep it in mind! Vet said we could always mince hay and give that via syringe - but I've tried it and it feels impossible; it just clogs the syringe and is unmanageble. (Maybe I do it wrong, I don't know.) But yes, important to keep the gut moving!
We're now only supplementing the probiotics for support as she's maintaining the weight now for several days and eating hay like a champion and vacuums up the pellets we give her. We are keeping vigilant though!

Happy piggie makes for a happy me!

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

We called the office and they agreed that we should give her Metacam for the swelling. They told us to give her 0.9 ml once a day, for three days. And see how that goes.

It's a 0.5 mg/ml solution, so that's a dose of 0.45mg which feels a bit high, and is way more than I've ever given a piggie before. But seems to be within the dose recommendations from the producer. (Actually seems to be exactly max dose.)


Thank you @alpacasqueak I will keep it in mind! Vet said we could always mince hay and give that via syringe - but I've tried it and it feels impossible; it just clogs the syringe and is unmanageble. (Maybe I do it wrong, I don't know.) But yes, important to keep the gut moving!
We're now only supplementing the probiotics for support as she's maintaining the weight now for several days and eating hay like a champion and vacuums up the pellets we give her. We are keeping vigilant though!

Happy piggie makes for a happy me!

That doesn't sound like a high dose to me. Over here cavy savvy vets in recent years are prescribing it in much higher doses than they used to because guinea pigs metabolize drugs very quickly.
Glad she is doing well and enjoying her food!

 

[AngelCat]

Hi again, just wanted to give a small weekend update.

Dimma is doing well on the new antibiotic (Baytril) although it seems she's developing gas again. She hasn't become lethargic and is keeping stable weight (905 grams) unlike how it was on the first antibiotic (Eusaprim/Bactrim). We also have been giving her Metacam as the Vet instructed in hopes of reducing the swelling.

She's eating like normal - although fewer pellets as we reduced them to a tablespoon (much to Dimmas annoyance, although I believe my mother is sneaking her a few more pellets out of sympathy) - and acting her normal lovable self.

For the gas we've been putting her on a massage mattress, giving massages and plenty of exercise along with probiotic support of both poop-soup and Protexin pellets. Although yesterday I contacted the Vet and asked for help as it wasn't going down and she gave us Emeprid/Afipran to give her and it's been 24 hours and her tummy has returned to a soft state. We'll keep an watchful eye and continue the emeprid throughout the antibiotic course.

The redness of her eyes has disappeared since we got the eyedrops for her, though her eyes look a little sunken still and I'm unsure if that's due to swelling or something else. The bumps on the side of her cheeks are still there and I fear the vet is going to have to drain them as they have not diminished further.

I've added three images:
1. Shows how distended her stomach was, it was also hard to the touch - and when tapped would give a hollow sound. I hope the emeprid will keep it down.
2. Shows her cheek - the right side of her cheek can be seen to be bulging outwards, due to the peanut sized lump there. The left side bump has diminished to a rice-size.
3. Shows Dimma chilling with us on the sofa, ever alert in case noms should appear. If it weren't for the bumps I'd call it a day and say she's back to normal.

Thanks for reading - The follow-up appointment with the vet is on Monday, and I'll update then.

 

[Siikibam]

I’m glad to hear she’s doing better. Has the vet decided on what to do about the lump in the cheek?

 

[AngelCat]

I’m glad to hear she’s doing better. Has the vet decided on what to do about the lump in the cheek?

The vet said that she didn't find it likely that the anti-biotics would be able to clear up the cysts. But she wanted to give it a chance before emptying them.

So the plan was to wait and see until Monday and then probably draining them if they hadn't shrunk. So I find it likely that'll be what we do.

They poked one of them to see what the liquid looked like and Dimma was very much not okay with it, so I'm not looking forward to it a whole lot.

 

[AngelCat]

Hi, sorry for the long pause in updates.

Dimma has been doing lot better. Vet decided to put her under local anesthesia and drain the lump on her left cheek. Went well and she got one stitch.
She had been on antibiotics for nearly a month at that point and the lump, once they had a look, did not show any sign of infection as it had when they punctured it first (oozed black liquid that smelled awful) but was clear so they rinsed it up and closed it. (3 weeks ago)

All of her lymph nodes have shrunk so that I can not feel them anymore except for one infront of her chest; and she was taken off of the antibiotics shortly after her minor surgery.

Last friday her abdomen was hard one morning so I was worried we were going into bloat again and took her to the vet, they X-rayed her and found a lot of small pockets of air all throughout her digestive track. I took her off all veggies and only made Hay and her kibble available in hopes of getting this under control.

She was also prescribed afipran/metoclopramide again which she's getting 0.2 ml of every 12 hours; along with metacam just in case.

Her appetite is good, she's constantly eating, but she's still losing weight. Today she's become wobbly and falls when she's walking around. I'm frankly scared and don't know what to do. Vet told me to mix oats, burger crispbread and mashed carrots (+cvit) and feed her, which I've now done but I'm very worried it'll add to her gas problem, but I feel like her losing weight is a bigger issue right now. I ordered critical care finally and am getting a foreign friend to ship it to me as no retailers will ship it here; but I'm worried it wont arrive soon enough. She's 760 grams, down from her usual 900; I can feel her bones so clearly and it breaks my heart.

Her eyes look sunken, but she's still her happy self and squeels at me, but she feels so weak - when I hold her she just lies down and rests, I'm feeling like I might be losing the battle here and that there must be something that I can do more.. I feel so helpless and stupid

 

[Sunnyandbutch]

I’m sorry to hear this. I know there are emergency alternatives to critical care such as low sugar potato free baby food and pumpkin purée. I heard a new suggestion from @Two_Wheeks about mixing plain oats and cooking them in oat milk or water. You can also try making your own purées with fruit+veg that she likes. In the past when low on critical care I crush up the pigs pellets and mix it with water this is my favorite sub for CC. I’m sending all my best for a speedy recovery for your pig.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this. I know there are emergency alternatives to critical care such as low sugar potato free baby food and pumpkin purée. I heard a new suggestion from @Two_Wheeks about mixing plain oats and cooking them in oat milk or water. You can also try making your own purées with fruit+veg that she likes. In the past when low on critical care I crush up the pigs pellets and mix it with water this is my favorite sub for CC. I’m sending all my best for a speedy recovery for your pig.

Please be careful as this isn’t the correct advice - the emergency alternative is not baby food as it isn’t fibre and doing this exclusively will cause issues

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m glad to hear the nodes have shrunk.

In the absence of critical care, the emergency measure is mixing the normal pellets with water and syringe feeding that. You can add a tiny bit of fruit to it to make it taste sweeter if absolutely necessary but as it’s their normal pellets and the taste is familiar, most piggies will take it well without anything needing to be added. The food intake needs to be fibre rich, not fruit or veg.
Your priority is to syringe feed enough to stabilise weight and stop weight loss. How much you syringe depends entirely on what her weight is doing.

Dont use burger breads or carrots - this isn’t appropriate at all. Too much sugar from carrots will cause problems with the gut.
You can give a bowl of plain, dry oats. I really would not cook them, piggies should not eat any cooked foods.

 

[Lady Kelly]

I’m sorry to hear this. I know there are emergency alternatives to critical care such as low sugar potato free baby food and pumpkin purée. I heard a new suggestion from @Two_Wheeks about mixing plain oats and cooking them in oat milk or water. You can also try making your own purées with fruit+veg that she likes. In the past when low on critical care I crush up the pigs pellets and mix it with water this is my favorite sub for CC. I’m sending all my best for a speedy recovery for your pig.

Please stop advising people to use pureed baby food. This is not good advice at all.

Porridge oats can be used to bulk up guinea pigs but should not be made up with any milk or cooked

 

[Bill & Ted]

I have read that the antibiotic of choice for stubborn abscesses is Zithromax I will tag in @furryfriends (TEAS) who has good knowledge of using this AB for abscesses and may be able to give you advice

 

[AngelCat]

Thank you all for responding and kind words; I really appreciate how many want to help, thank you.

I will stick to pelllets in syringe feeding. I added a tablespoon of oats and gave her some peaflakes which she ate most of happily.
I feel a little weird about syringe feeding her when she's eating herself; but I'll keep sharp eyes on her weight and syringe feed her more accordingly.

I feel a bit weird about the dose of afipran/metoclopramide - stated 0.2 ml every 12 hours, but this is a 5 mg/ml solution, meaning that I'm giving this piggie 1mg every 12 hours while she's only 750 grams. Is it possible this is causing the wobbliness and falling over; it's gotten worse this morning, and she's having a hard time getting around - but she does not seem to mind the difficulties and tries to come running to me regardless...
I did not give her the last dose as I got frightened that I was doing her harm ( I see the recommended dose is 0.5 mg - 1 mg / kg )

 

[Siikibam]

You should speak to the vet about the dosage. But it’s also best not to stop any medication without consulting the vet.

 

[AngelCat]

I have read that the antibiotic of choice for stubborn abscesses is Zithromax

Thank you @Bill & Ted I will discuss this with my vet monday morning!

Your priority is to syringe feed enough to stabilise weight and stop weight loss. How much you syringe depends entirely on what her weight is doing.

Thanks @Piggies&buns for your advice; we've kept her on a strict schedule of syringe feed (ground pellets, hay and a tiny bit of dry oats) we're so fortunate with this lil piggie that she loves it and can't get enough. Her weight the past days has gone from 750 -> 745 -> 765 now, so I think maybe we've found a good spot (45 ml of mush in 12 hrs, my gosh the fibreplex syringe makes it so easy)

You should speak to the vet about the dosage. But it’s also best not to stop any medication without consulting the vet.

Thanks @Siikibam - I think I was a bit rash initially as I was in shock. I decided to continue giving her 0.1 ml which should be within safe margins and will discuss this with the vet monday morning. Thank you for being a rational voice when I needed it.

Her weight isn't dropping as fast as it was before, and we're keeping close watch. Poops are a bit on the small side but otherwise healthy looking. She's still extremely wobbly though but her spirits are as high as ever.

Thank you all as always for being lovely. I've attached images of the mush crazy piggie getting some mix - I'm so glad she likes to, makes both of our lives so much easier. Also attached images of the lump on her left cheek that they operated on (easy to get images when she's hoping for more syringe feed. ) I don't know how a wound should look but it concerns me a little. Operation was on the 10th of February so it's been 2.5 weeks. The two dots is where the stitch was; I'm not sure if she's pink looking because she's a white guinea pig or if it's because it's irritated; it's warm to the touch (but so is she generally) and it doesn't seem to bother her if I'm feeling around it. Vet didn't find anything amiss when examining her though. I'm probably just being paranoid.

I'm calling the vet tomorrow morning to discuss these things too. Hope you've all had a lovely weekend, and thanks again for keeping me sane. It's made such a difference for me.