Ellie- Ovarian Cyst,maybe Stones, Suggestions Please.

[GPTV]

Hmm now i really dont know what to do..
Ellie has had numerous trips to the vet recently for blood in her urine & cystitus generally.

However the last time this happened approx early February, the blood i found was very red (as though undiluted) &all round her opening, when she pooped it was bloody over it. but she would wee with no problem, no squeaks of pain & no visible signs of blood actually in the urine left.

She was given Baytril & Metacam. I gave her a sprinkling of the probiotic Bio lapis on her food although she wasn't off her food. As all the times before this cleared up & no problems until now.

Again i found blood all over the shredded paper bedding & all round her opening when i checked her.

i normally feed fresh water, unlimited hay, a small bowl 50g'ish daily of Burgess excell nuggets (between the two of them),cucumber, celery & an assortment of bell peppers, pointed cabbage, broccoli.
As treats they get parsley, coriander, apple, banana, honeydew melon & until recently curly kale, which i have now realised in the last few months is high in calcium so they rarely get it now.

the vet felt her all round & said she could feel a lump around her underside area, she got another vet to have a quick feel for a second opinion & he said he also could feel a lump in the central area between the kidneys ( i think that's what he meant anyway!) & possible slight enlargement of the kidneys.

The vet thinks the lump is an ovarian cyst, roughly the size of a walnut. which may be causing her problems.

We are going back on Monday for an ultrasound scan, as the vet said this would be cheaper than an xray & should be less stressful. ( Also the vet said she has never done ultrasound on a piggy before so will be interested in the results).
If it is cysts she said a spay would be the only option, but Ellie is 6.5yrs old now, so neither of really think this is really an option for her to go through general anaesthetic at this age.

Right so i have been reading loads of threads on here &some books...
* if it is a large ovarian cyst some members have tried (hCG) Chorulan injections to reduce or halt growth.
has anyone tried these & how successful did they find them?
How costly are they?
How long before they will work?
How many courses of jabs are needed?
How long will each treatment last for?
What side effects have been encountered?

*aspirating a cyst with a needle seems to be another option,
Can anyone tell me whats involved in this, is it just draining the fluid from the cyst ?
Is it just a local anaesthetic used?
Again is this a successful procedure?
How long will it last & how long before it takes effect?
How costly will this be?
Is this a common treatment?
What are the dangers of this treatment?

General symptoms of cysts seem to be stressy, hormonal behaviour.
hairloss, crusty nipples & Ellie doesnt really have any of these, are there any other signs?

Right so if its not a cyst then could it be stones or sludge & would these show on an ultrasound? or will it have to be an xray?
would just a recurring infection cause the same symptoms? should i enquire about using Septrin opposed to Baytril, (although baytril has always worked) but the vet didn't just want to keep dishing out antibiotics without finding the cause.

Can i make any dietary changes to help?


Sorry this is so long, just would like to know my options to discuss with the vet.
Can anyone give me any advice, please?

Ellie says Thankyou too

 

[helen105281]

Bless her, to me as she is not squeaking when peeing it makes me think that it is more likely to be a cyst or tumour than a stone, especially as there is no blood in her pee either, but I am just going by experience with my own pigs.

Maddie recently had an xray but it took 2 xrays to show up her stone. A couple of months before she had an ultrasound at a different vets which showed up an ovarian cyst. This was then drained and the vet got out 40ml of fluid which was the most he had seen. We were told it could refill but she has since been PTS due to the location of her bladder stone and the fact an op was too risky for her as she was a heart pig. The draining cost the consultation fee only I think. The stone symptoms were incredible pain when peeing and pooing which was not controlled by a combination of Tramadol and Metacam, blood in her pee, hunching when peeing and pooing and vast amounts of blood in her pee. Her stone was lodged at the top of her urethra.

As for the Chorulon injections, these would have been our next step with Maddie for her cyst but we have experience with them with our late sow Terk who had an ovarian tumour. She had 3 injections in total and I think were £17 each but that was a couple of years ago. Her tumour did shrink but sadly started to regrow after about a year and she was PTS. The main symptom was blood around her bits.

 

[GPTV]

How do you think 40ml of fluid contained in a cyst would compare to walnut sized? Would it be similar?
Was Maddie given a local anaesthetic for the fluid drainage or was it done without?

I'm glad to say Ellie is showing no signs of pain, but i guess like you say it is more likely to be a cyst or tumour

Was Terk given the injections in her leg or shoulder or somewhere else?
How far apart were the injections given? I have read intervals of 3x jabs 2wks apart & of 2x jabs 1 month apart but i don't remember seeing a dose.

Do you think your vet would mind if i gave my vet their phone number to discuss the injection if it turns out to be a cyst, as i don't think my vets have done a major amount of guinea pig medicine, apart from the general everyday stuff.
The vet locator doesnt show any recommended vets at a close enough distance to me.

Sorry to hear your two didn't make it, thankyou for the info at least i can prepare myself a bit more as to more options available.

Thankyou xx

 

[Poppy'sMum]

The ultrasound is a good way forward One of my piggies has had similar symptoms, she passes blood every now & then, have UTIs etc. There was no stone present at the last x-ray & scan but one can form quite quickly. She has had chorulan injections, they were around £20 each time & usually they need 2 or 3 to sort the cyst. My piggy has also had the cyst aspirated by the vet, this was done without anaesthetic & by a very compete vet, so you need to be sure yours is experienced in piggy problems. I would not consider a spay at her age personally. It's a very major op even for a young piggy. I would see what the scan reveals & take it from there, maybe consider injections first. I would also ask for Septrin as the antibiotic, or Marbocyl & also maybe a small dose of Metacam daily as an anti-inflammatory. Good luck, let us know how she gets on

 

[helen105281]

How do you think 40ml of fluid contained in a cyst would compare to walnut sized? Would it be similar?
Was Maddie given a local anaesthetic for the fluid drainage or was it done without?

I'm glad to say Ellie is showing no signs of pain, but i guess like you say it is more likely to be a cyst or tumour

Was Terk given the injections in her leg or shoulder or somewhere else?
How far apart were the injections given? I have read intervals of 3x jabs 2wks apart & of 2x jabs 1 month apart but i don't remember seeing a dose.

Do you think your vet would mind if i gave my vet their phone number to discuss the injection if it turns out to be a cyst, as i don't think my vets have done a major amount of guinea pig medicine, apart from the general everyday stuff.
The vet locator doesnt show any recommended vets at a close enough distance to me.

Sorry to hear your two didn't make it, thankyou for the info at least i can prepare myself a bit more as to more options available.

Thankyou xx

The OH thinks Maddie's cyst was bigger than a walnut. It was drained conscious with us holding her legs. It was drained by Amir Kashiv at Vets and Pets in Broxbourne, so not our local vet, he is the vet that oversees the monthly piggy clinics there and is the most piggy experienced vet in this area. He is usually happy to speak to other vets and it was also him who gave Terk her injections. He won't remember Terk as it was a good while ago but he will know about the injections. If I remember right there were 2 types of courses we could have done with the injections and she had 3 I think 2 weeks apart.

Thank you, Terk had a good year after her initial diagnosis and was comfortable until just before the end. With Maddie we were fighting a losing battle as her situation was complicated by her heart issue and the infections she had meant she had a lot of inflammation which meant the stone could not be flushed until the infection cleared which just wasn't happening.

 

[GPTV]

Thankyou
Poppy'sMum Was the aspiration done first, or the chorulan injections?

I agree with the vet that at her age it wouldn't be an option to put her through general anaesthetic so a spay which would be the answer but not in her case, also i have read about hormone implants but this would appear to require GA too, so i had to rule that out also.

My Vets have a large practice & vets that specialize in different areas, but i think guineas are still more the exception rather than the rule around here.
I think its only because i keep turning up they see that many guineas anyway!

paranoid piggy slave!

helen105281 Ahh i have read good reports on here of Amir i will sort his details for my vets in case Mondays ultrasound confirms a cyst.

xx

 

[helen105281]

He can sometimes be a bit difficult to get hold of as he is very busy but they should be able to contact him eventually.

 

[GPTV]

Thankyou.... usually the sign of a good vet if they are busy

 

[helen105281]

Yes definitely, he is a great surgeon too.

 

[Poppy'sMum]

Thankyou
Poppy'sMum Was the aspiration done first, or the chorulan injections?

I agree with the vet that at her age it wouldn't be an option to put her through general anaesthetic so a spay which would be the answer but not in her case, also i have read about hormone implants but this would appear to require GA too, so i had to rule that out also.

My Vets have a large practice & vets that specialize in different areas, but i think guineas are still more the exception rather than the rule around here.
I think its only because i keep turning up they see that many guineas anyway!

paranoid piggy slave!

helen105281 Ahh i have read good reports on here of Amir i will sort his details for my vets in case Mondays ultrasound confirms a cyst.

xx

Yes my vet aspirated the cyst then followed it up with a Chorulan injection into the scruff of the neck Because the cyst was drained only one jab was necessary. about £28 from what I remember. They can recur, although my Petal piggy has had 2 injections last year spaced 2 weeks apart which seemed to shrink them, this time she had a very large one which was causing her to pass a little blood. I've had a previous pig who only needed 2 jabs & she never had them recur at all, so definitely worth trying the injections, but only have the cyst aspirated a very piggy savvy vet, like Helen says

 

[biscandmatt]

is there an exotics vet you could travel to? if not, hopefully they can consult with one over the phone.

we are going through chronic cystitis and cysts with maisie at the moment. you're welcome to read our thread if you want. it's quite long now! maisie has been having the hcg injections. she's had two and that will be it for now as her cysts are small. but she was having problems clearing cystitis and this could be because of the cysts. they can be an immunosuppressant.

the lump being central underneath doesn't seem like cysts to me so it could be something else.

i really would recommend travelling to an exotics vet though if possible. i don't know where your nearest one is. my o/h's family are in dorset and i know they haven't found one close by.

good luck anyway.

 

[TAN]

My two 4 year old sows were both spayed recently - both were litereraly bouncing around about an hour after their op - if you can find a VERY experinced vet at spaying piggies you should not have a problem - my vet Rachael Mowbray at vale Vet referrals in Dursley has done well over 30 spays (including spaying all her own - she currently has 5 sows ) - the more experienced the vet the quicker the op - my girls were done and awake within 20 mins -they both also had a tumour within the uterus that was removed at the same time.

 

[GPTV]

is there an exotics vet you could travel to? if not, hopefully they can consult with one over the phone.

we are going through chronic cystitis and cysts with maisie at the moment. you're welcome to read our thread if you want. it's quite long now! maisie has been having the hcg injections. she's had two and that will be it for now as her cysts are small. but she was having problems clearing cystitis and this could be because of the cysts. they can be an immunosuppressant.

the lump being central underneath doesn't seem like cysts to me so it could be something else.

i really would recommend travelling to an exotics vet though if possible. i don't know where your nearest one is. my o/h's family are in dorset and i know they haven't found one close by.

good luck anyway.

Hi there,

i seem to be in a bit of a black spot as far as recommended guinea savvy vets, think my closest according to the locator is about 60 miles away

i have found out Amir Kashiv at Vets and Pets in Broxbourne's phone number as recommended by helen105281 &
i will also find out Simon Maddocks from Cat &Rabbit as he seems to be highly recommended generally on here for anything piggy
& see if my vet can have a chat with them dependent on tomorrows ultrasound results.

lol i have been reading your thread... all 8 pages of it at last count
hope maisie is doing well & the injections are successful, yours was one of the threads that made me aware of the injections in the first place, so thankyou for that

thankyou. xx

 

[GPTV]

My two 4 year old sows were both spayed recently - both were litereraly bouncing around about an hour after their op - if you can find a VERY experinced vet at spaying piggies you should not have a problem - my vet Rachael Mowbray at vale Vet referrals in Dursley has done well over 30 spays (including spaying all her own - she currently has 5 sows ) - the more experienced the vet the quicker the op - my girls were done and awake within 20 mins -they both also had a tumour within the uterus that was removed at the same time.

i think the Dursley vets is my second closest recommended on the locator, but the closest is about 60 miles away but i might grab their details just in case for my vet to chat to.
My vets are very good for most animals, but i think they don't have a large amount of piggies in to get the experience needed, i dont think they are classed as an exotics vet, but they are normally helpful wherever possible generally.

i think ellies 6.5yrs might be pushing over the safe age limit for a spay, but thankyou for the info, it all helps
Glad your two made a remarkable speedy recovery & the tumour removal was successful too.

thankyou xx

 

[TAN]

My vets is a vet referrals - meaning that when a vet doesnt know what the problem is,they refer the case to them - they are about 40 miles away from me now I have moved - but I would travel any distance for my piggies - Rachael diagnosed ovarian cysts just from a manual examination which she did at 8 o clock in the evening as it was the only time I could get there - there was just me ,my 15yr old daughter Rachael and the cleaner there - she then let me hold my piggy while she shaved her belly and I held her while she was ultrasounded - I saw the cyst and the food moving through her guts (fascinating) - it is one of only about 5 animal hospitals in the u.k - it even has a separate pet re-hab centre where another of my piggies who has spinal disease had a course of chiropractor treatments - (the last time Nuggets went for a treatment there was a pet chicken in rehab and dogs in hydrotherapy / on an excercise ball and treadmill -I would recommend them to anybody - piggy can also stay overnight with cagemate if necessary for about £19 - which is what I do when anyone needs an op - for the sake of £40 I would rather theygive the meds and syringe feed and keep an eye on them.oth spays cost me £89 including meds and aftercare.

 

[GPTV]

Hmm i may need to find a satnav! looks like its about 2hrs drive away, Direction dyslexic & severe dislike of driving.
Thanks for the info, will bear it in mind though. They sound excellent

Ellies having her ultrasound tomorrow mid day after consultations have finished for the morning, i asked if i could see her ultrasound & the vet said that would be fine as she was hoping i was going to hold her!
poor lil baby .... i havent told her she's going to have a bald patch tomorrow night!

Willl let you know how we get on!

 

[TAN]

Try not to feed her any greens as that might make her a bit gassy,which could hinder the ultrasound- just hay nuggets and any other veg such as pepper cucumber etc -

 

[GPTV]

Ahh thanks, hadn't given that a thought no pointed cabbage in the morning... just in case!
xx

 

[sport_billy]

I can't add anymore to what has been said by everyone above, just wanted to let you know we'll be thinking of her tomorrow. x

 

[biscandmatt]

Hi there,

i seem to be in a bit of a black spot as far as recommended guinea savvy vets, think my closest according to the locator is about 60 miles away

i have found out Amir Kashiv at Vets and Pets in Broxbourne's phone number as recommended by helen105281 &
i will also find out Simon Maddocks from Cat &Rabbit as he seems to be highly recommended generally on here for anything piggy
& see if my vet can have a chat with them dependent on tomorrows ultrasound results.

lol i have been reading your thread... all 8 pages of it at last count
hope maisie is doing well & the injections are successful, yours was one of the threads that made me aware of the injections in the first place, so thankyou for that

thankyou. xx

wow, 60 miles. set off now and you might be back for next week hopefully your vets can consult with some others. it's good they want to learn aswell.

sorry about the long maisie thread.

lots of luck for the ultrasound. x

 

[GPTV]

thanks everyone for the advice & support, will let you know how we get on later.... I'm not looking forwards to this

biscandmatt.... your thread has been great... lots of ideas... fingers crossed for Maisie.xx

 

[GuineaGuy]

Hi GPTV,

I've just been reading your thread - we went through an Ovarian Cyst with our Piglet last year, and eventually had her successfully spayed. As others have said, its doesn't sound like cysts, so I hope you were able to get to the bottom of it.

TAN's suggestion of Vale Vets is a good one - a lot of people I speak too recommend them. We personally use Highcroft Vets in Bristol. Jemma Hildrew is the exotic specialist and is very good - http://www.highcroftvet.co.uk/staff/veterinary-surgeons. It was her who carried out our spay. Prior to going to Highcroft, we were referred to Gweat Western Exotics in Swindon by our old vet, who again were also very good when we needed them.

I really hope all went well today.

 

[GPTV]

Well my vet can now say she's ultrasounded a piggy

There was a big circular dark patch which the vet said looks like a fluid filled sack or similar.
Was fascinating to see though, watching the food going thro the intestines.

Ellie was very good.... Even having her belly shaved
But did start to fidget after a while.... Ahh mummy's little baby

We discussed aspiration of the mass &she feels its too risky as we're not 100% on the mass.

But I managed to get her to looking into hcg injections. She phoned the manufacturers whilst I was there. Now awaiting their return call to recommend dosage etc.
Then vets will phone me back to see where we go from here!

Left some of the recommended vet numbers with her. If she needs to consult with them she can

Apparently its not licensed for guinea pigs but for cattle &they don't have any currently at the surgery.
So I'm at the manufacturers mercy at the moment :-/
Xx

 

[TAN]

Not many products are licenced for piggies -septrin isn't,and that is always my first "general" antibiotic of choice - vets have / are expected to follow a cascade system of particular meds that they can use - some vets are more flexible to your requirements than others - I have used 3 vets who are more than happy to prescribe it to my tribe,because they know that I know a little of what I am talking about,and one other who was most miffed that I requested it as well as an ultrasound - and still didn't sort out piggy,who then went to Rachael at vale vets to be sorted.

 

[Poppy'sMum]

Awww bless her what a good piggy I must be very lucky; I've never once been offered Baytril for any of mine, they have always been given the Chorulan injections without any problems as well as other unlicensed meds I hope you can get to the bottom of it. If your vet is not that experienced with ovarian cysts she may not be able to tell from the scan if it is one; she may also not be experienced to do an aspiration either, in which case you may want to consider another opinion at one of the recommended vets on the list Good luck, I hope she feels better soon

 

[biscandmatt]

aw she sounds really good bless her.

 

[Tbag]

Aw what a sweet little lady being so well behaved for you. I'm crossing my fingers you can get a sound diagnosis and begin treating this soon to get her better!

 

[GPTV]

Hi there everyone.
Well the vet phoned back yesterday &she has been booked in for Friday mornin for the injections. Hopefully this will help her out a bit
Any questions I should be asking or things I should be looking out for?
She's got to go back in 7-10days for a second dose.
Should I ask for more metacam for on standby? Should antibiotics be given also to back up the injections or would there be no point in this as she is not currently bleeding, and it might just be the cyst anyway.

My piggy parent nerves are shot away!
The down side to being a piggy junkie I guess!

 

[GPTV]

Are there any questions I should be asking ref the injections?
Is there anything I should be looking out for?

Ellies going in for her injections tomorrow morning.
Any healing vibes appreciated
Xx

 

[Poppy'sMum]

Nope nothing else to do but to give her a big cuddle afterwards My piggy never squeaks with jabs, she is the first one I've ever had that doesn't, don't be alarmed if she lets out a shriek as they are DQs where jabs are concerned Good luck, she will be fine