Does anyone know what this noise means?

[Popcorns & Wheeks]

Sorry for another question! His metacam is the cat version so 0.5mg/ml and I’ve been giving him .4mls of it twice a day. I gave him .4mls at around 4pm and just accidentally gave him about .6 1/3 mls of a syringe of it, I drew too much metacam and was going to keep the rest of the syringe for the morning but he tried to bolt midway because he’s fed up with syringes now, I assume not but is this a large overdose? I know this may be a really stupid question because I do know they have a fast metabolism and are less prone to overdose problems than cats but I’m a worrier

So he has had say around 0.3mls over, so just over 1ml today?

 

[Popcorns & Wheeks]

Oh no this is horrible I’m so sorry I lost my first piggy Rico in November 21 and I still miss him so much

I know it is so difficult when they pass away, I miss them all, it feels like a part of you dies with them doesn’t it. I lost my Susie on September 6th, my Heidi on October 15th and my Bonny boy Dexter on December 28th. It really has been a terrible few months. The grief is overpowering and the guilt is so hard to cope with x

 

[lauryn1289]

So he has had say around 0.3mls over, so just over 1ml today?

Yes and probably less than .3mls over to be honest, the syringe was a lot of bubbles once it got near the end! I’m still terrible at drawing metacam onto a spoon and gauging it by eye, I try not to waste any because a 3ml bottle is 15 euros

 

[lauryn1289]

I know it is so difficult when they pass away, I miss them all, it feels like a part of you dies with them doesn’t it. I lost my Susie on September 6th, my Heidi on October 15th and my Bonny boy Dexter on December 28th. It really has been a terrible few months. The grief is overpowering and the guilt is so hard to cope with x

It’s bad enough losing one but to lose so many in such a small timeframe is just awful, honestly unimaginable I’m so sorry again I still find myself saying goodnight to a photo of Rico before I sleep I adopted a hamster back in 2019 and he died a month after Rico on Christmas eve, I was absolutely distraught. Some people really underestimate the impact such small little creatures can have on our lives, my boys and my cat are my whole world!

 

[Popcorns & Wheeks]

Yes and probably less than .3mls over to be honest, the syringe was a lot of bubbles once it got near the end! I’m still terrible at drawing metacam onto a spoon and gauging it by eye, I try not to waste any because a 3ml bottle is 15 euros

He should be fine. I'm exactly like yourself, a panicker so I would be the same. I know in the past I gave Dexter 0.4 mls twice of the dog metacam and that is stronger so .... x

 

[Popcorns & Wheeks]

It’s bad enough losing one but to lose so many in such a small timeframe is just awful, honestly unimaginable I’m so sorry again I still find myself saying goodnight to a photo of Rico before I sleep Some people really underestimate the impact such small little creatures can have on our lives, my boys and my cat are my whole world!

I know, I still can't believe it has happened to be honest. I still wake up and expect to see all five of my babies waiting for their breakfast but now I only have two hungry piggies to feed. I am praying that I have a smooth year this year with my Ruby and my Delilah. Sorry to hear about your beautiful Rico and hope your Bobby is OK.

Yes, I'm the same. I have all three of my piggies ashes and every night I stroke their urns and say goodnight, it really is so heart shattering. I think because piggies have such big personalities, thats why they leave a huge imprint on our hearts. Me too, my piggies and Sasha my German shepherd are everything to me x

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Sorry for another question! His metacam is the cat version so 0.5mg/ml and I’ve been giving him .4mls of it twice a day. I gave him .4mls at around 4pm and just accidentally gave him about .6 1/3 mls of a syringe of it, I drew too much metacam and was going to keep the rest of the syringe for the morning but he tried to bolt midway because he’s fed up with syringes now, I assume not but is this a large overdose? I know this may be a really stupid question because I do know they have a fast metabolism and are less prone to overdose problems than cats but I’m a worrier

He will be absolutely fine with that amount of metacam. Most exotic vets and piggy savvy vet always use the dog metacam for piggies which is three times the strength of cat metacam, because of how fast they metabolise it. I have been prescribed 0.4ml of dog metcam long term for a piggy with bladder issues in the past.

 

[lauryn1289]

Just an update, got him to the vet and he’s in for the day to get an ultrasound to check for stones. There’s an exotic vet about an hour and a half away so if there’s stones or anything my vets can’t treat with any confidence I’ll be bringing him there!
I worry he won’t eat while he’s in there because he’s so stressed out but I left some critical care and did ask that they feed him incase so I’m trying to remain calm

 

[Claire W]

I am keeping my fingers very firmly crossed. When my Elizabeth had her ultrasound the other week, the vet did it while I was in the room. A nurse held her while the vet performed the ultrasound so I got to see what was happening x

 

[lauryn1289]

Ok update number 2! They did an xray, ultrasound and a urine sample and he doesn’t have any stones or crystals. We’re going to try another antibiotic and see if it helps but going to get a referral for the exotic vet anyway to have just incase they don’t

 

[lauryn1289]

I am keeping my fingers very firmly crossed. When my Elizabeth had her ultrasound the other week, the vet did it while I was in the room. A nurse held her while the vet performed the ultrasound so I got to see what was happening x

They did an xray and ultrasound and doesn’t have any stones or crystals thank god, we’re going to try a different antibiotic and see if changing helps! I was hoping to be in the room with him but they weren’t able to do it when I was there He’s coming home now so lots of parsley and cuddles!

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Ok update number 2! They did an xray, ultrasound and a urine sample and he doesn’t have any stones or crystals. We’re going to try another antibiotic and see if it helps but going to get a referral for the exotic vet anyway to have just incase they don’t

Glad to hear there are no stones. Hopefully antibiotics will sort out the problem.

 

[Claire W]

Glad to hear there’s no stones. Fingers crossed the new antibiotic works x

 

[lauryn1289]

Last thing I promise But does anyone have any experience with doxycycline/ronaxan? His prescribed dose is 1 quarter of a 20mg tablet twice a day. I did mention Septrin like someone on here mentioned for a UTI but doxycycline is what I got given. Can’t really find a whole pile about how useful it’ll be!

I also got speaking to a nurse at an exotic vets who thinks it’s very strange if it’s not a blockage since he was on Baytril (although not consistently) and questioned the xray but I can’t imagine they could’ve possibly misinterpreted an xray and an ultrasound or done both incorrectly? He was concerned about leaving it a couple of days to see how these new antibiotics work but I’m not sure, I would bring him straight away if it wasn’t a 3 and a half hour return trip that I need to ask someone to bring me to because I don’t have a car Anyway just wondering really if anyone has experience with doxyclycline! Sorry for another addition to this thread I promise this really is the last

 

[Free Ranger]

Last thing I promise

It's no problem at all - the forum is here to help and support all piggies and owners. And we all learn a little something from every thread and experience! It's the right thing to keep all related questions and updates in one place too so that people picking up the thread can see the history.

No doxycycline experience personally I'm afraid. (@Piggies&buns would you know anyone available who might have used this in the past?) but in this thread Is doxycycline safe for piggies? the take home message seems to be that it's safe but can wipe out the good gut bacteria which might kill off piggies appetite. This is like we saw with the Septrin and I think this probably depends on your pig - my boy struggled on Septrin within a day or so of starting the course, but my Rainbow girl never had a problem and she had it for weeks on end. It's good practice to weigh piggy daily when they're unwell or on meds that might make them stop eating. George was just picking at his veg but his weight loss was from not eating the hay he should have been munching round the clock! Their weight will naturally go up and down anyway but if you start to see down, down, down, then you'll need to help piggy with supplemental syringe feeding and probiotics. But hopefully it'll just be a straightforward course to knock a simple UTI out!

Baytril is the workhorse of guinea pig ABs so the fact that you can get resistance to it isn't that much of a surprise... the more an AB is used the more resistance appears. That's just life unfortunately. One of my vets always gives 0.2ml twice a day. More recently a younger vet plunged straight in with 0.5ml twice a day. I questioned the change (thinking it was maybe a weaker solution - also it tastes disgusting so getting more in is harder!) and she said it was to do with increasing resistance. There is a range of active dose for any AB not just a single concentration. In 10 years we've had several UTI in our pigs and twice Baytril hasn't worked. And I'm just one person. My vets don't bat an eyelid so they must see it a lot!

You can ask your vet to forward you the x-ray file to send to the other vet. I'm going to attach the ones that George had done in October so you know what to look for. It's a belter - you can see a very obvious round stone but also a faint line of white exiting towards the back which is calcium build up in the urethra: he also had a UTI at this time so the inflammation meant he was dribbling pained pees and not blasting this clear with a good flow (George survived his op btw and touch wood is doing well)

 

[lauryn1289]

It's no problem at all - the forum is here to help and support all piggies and owners. And we all learn a little something from every thread and experience! It's the right thing to keep all related questions and updates in one place too so that people picking up the thread can see the history.

No doxycycline experience personally I'm afraid. (@Piggies&buns would you know anyone available who might have used this in the past?) but in this thread Is doxycycline safe for piggies? the take home message seems to be that it's safe but can wipe out the good gut bacteria which might kill off piggies appetite. This is like we saw with the Septrin and I think this probably depends on your pig - my boy struggled on Septrin within a day or so of starting the course, but my Rainbow girl never had a problem and she had it for weeks on end. It's good practice to weigh piggy daily when they're unwell or on meds that might make them stop eating. George was just picking at his veg but his weight loss was from not eating the hay he should have been munching round the clock! Their weight will naturally go up and down anyway but if you start to see down, down, down, then you'll need to help piggy with supplemental syringe feeding and probiotics. But hopefully it'll just be a straightforward course to knock a simple UTI out!

Baytril is the workhorse of guinea pig ABs so the fact that you can get resistance to it isn't that much of a surprise... the more an AB is used the more resistance appears. That's just life unfortunately. One of my vets always gives 0.2ml twice a day. More recently a younger vet plunged straight in with 0.5ml twice a day. I questioned the change (thinking it was maybe a weaker solution - also it tastes disgusting so getting more in is harder!) and she said it was to do with increasing resistance. There is a range of active dose for any AB not just a single concentration. In 10 years we've had several UTI in our pigs and twice Baytril hasn't worked. And I'm just one person. My vets don't bat an eyelid so they must see it a lot!

You can ask your vet to forward you the x-ray file to send to the other vet. I'm going to attach the ones that George had done in October so you know what to look for. It's a belter - you can see a very obvious round stone but also a faint line of white exiting towards the back which is calcium build up in the urethra: he also had a UTI at this time so the inflammation meant he was dribbling pained pees and not blasting this clear with a good flow (George survived his op btw and touch wood is doing well)
View attachment 217755 View attachment 217756

This is so helpful thank you so much for all of this! So happy your boy is doing well too x

 

[Wheekallweek]

That's good there's no stones or sludge! Hopefully a different antibiotic will work. I know my bunny's vet often gives her azithromycin for her jaw infections. Apparently it's better for penetrating bone, I guess some are better at different things than others!
We've used Sulfatrim before with piggies as well.

 

[lauryn1289]

Hi again all, I know I said last time it was gonna be the last update but here’s another one! So I didn’t think doxycycline has been doing much if not anything at all, still lots of blood in his urine and he’s still in pain and tomorrow would be his last day and I’m not confident things are getting better so I’m bringing him to an exotic vet tomorrow.

He’s booked in for 10am to have another x-ray, they said my vets should’ve also taken a lateral x-ray so stones might still be in question and my vets also didn’t keep any image copies of the ultrasound (which makes me wonder if they even did it) so he’ll have another one of those too. Still hopeful it won’t be a case of needing surgery but we’ll see. Definitely thinking of changing vets because I find the fact they didn’t save any ultrasounds very strange

The vet’s practice he’s going to is a woman who teaches exotic medicine in the biggest veterinary school in Ireland, has a book about exotic animal medicine sold globally and has taught exotic medicine in Korea, Australia and the UK too! So he’s going to a really wonderful vet it seems

 

[Claire W]

Yes, vets should take two views when x raying for bladder stones. Sounds like your boy will be in excellent hands tomorrow. Good luck x

 

[VickiA]

I hope that tomorrow you will get some answers for your boy and that he can be made more comfy.

 

[Wheekallweek]

Best of luck for tomorrow, hopefully there's nothing too serious going on and you'll be able to get some answers and make him more comfortable!

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Good luck for tomorrow. Please keep us updated

 

[Free Ranger]

My vet doesn't save any ultrasounds as far as I know, but they save x-ray pics and put on file. They come out to show me on their phones if I'm waiting!

There is something called Sterile Interstitial Cystitis or SIC. This is a strange sort of thing and as far as I can gather is only diagnosed by eliminating stones and normal UTI as the cause of a peeing problem... which are much more regularly seen by vets. I think it's quite unusual, but people on this forum have SIC pigs. With SIC you get the inflammation and blood of cystitis but no bacteria can be cultured from the urine. It's thought to be triggered by stress - although considering all piggies are stressy little prey animals I don't know why they wouldn't all have it all the time! There is a cat version which is more known about and which is triggered by stress. There isn't a 'treatment' for piggies as such but the flare-ups (which might last a few days or a few weeks - I'm not an expert here) are managed with prescribed metacam and by adding glucosamine to the diet (and there are various ways you can do this). Glucosamine is considered a food supplement and can just be bought online... George has it in the form of Oxbow joint support biccies for his arthritis (because it helps with that too). You have to have it daily for a few weeks before you start to see any difference though.
But this is something for the future - trouble peeing is most likely stones, sludge or UTI (but not necessarily in that order!)
Good luck and let us know how you get on x

 

[lauryn1289]

So he had another xray and ultrasound with his exotic vet and he has an inflamed bladder, a big stone and crystals The exotic vet doesn’t understand how in the world my vets screwed up so much. He has surgery booked for Wednesday, very worried about but hopefully it goes well

He had to be anaesthetised for his X-ray so we’re just waiting to bring him home now until his surgery, ideally would have left him here for the night but since we live a couple of hours away he has to come home today. Thanks so much again everyone for your help I really appreciate it all

 

[Claire W]

Aw I’m sorry that he has a stone Fingers very firmly crossed for his surgery Wednesday x

 

[lauryn1289]

Aw I’m sorry that he has a stone Fingers very firmly crossed for his surgery Wednesday x

Thank you so much! It’s scary but it’s for the best. He’s coming back home until them on Septrin, Gabapentin and some cranberry supplements to hopefully help him pass urine easier. xx

 

[Popcorns & Wheeks]

Awww so sorry to hear it's stones. Best of luck for Wednesday

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Sorry to hear he has a bladder stone. At least you now know whats going on and he will feel a lot better once it is removed and recovered from the surgery. Most likely the inflamation is being caused by the stone so hopefully that will go away too. I agree it is scary tho.
Last year one of my piggies, Arthur, had to have a stone removed too. It was a success and he bounced back quickly, so although there are no guarantees there is every chance your boy will do well too. He did continue crying for several days post op but stayed on the metacam until he stopped and for a few days beyond, so don't be surprised if your piggy does the same while things are healing. I made a few adjustments to Arthur's diet and so far he has had no reoccurrence. There is a guide on the forum about low calcium diets for pigs prone to stones, etc sorry I am unable to connect you to it but someone else will probably come along who is able to.
It is surprising your first vets missed so much but if for example the x-ray was done consciously the stone could have been hidden under his spine or leg bone as they would not have been able to stretch his legs out behind him or take a view of him on his side. And I guess if they lack experience with piggies they may not have noticed the inflamation.
Your boy is lucky to have such a caring owner who has found him the help he needs. Wishing you all the best for Wednesday.

 

[lauryn1289]

Sorry to hear he has a bladder stone. At least you now know whats going on and he will feel a lot better once it is removed and recovered from the surgery. Most likely the inflamation is being caused by the stone so hopefully that will go away too. I agree it is scary tho.
Last year one of my piggies, Arthur, had to have a stone removed too. It was a success and he bounced back quickly, so although there are no guarantees there is every chance your boy will do well too. He did continue crying for several days post op but stayed on the metacam until he stopped and for a few days beyond, so don't be surprised if your piggy does the same while things are healing. I made a few adjustments to Arthur's diet and so far he has had no reoccurrence. There is a guide on the forum about low calcium diets for pigs prone to stones, etc sorry I am unable to connect you to it but someone else will probably come along who is able to.
It is surprising your first vets missed so much but if for example the x-ray was done consciously the stone could have been hidden under his spine or leg bone as they would not have been able to stretch his legs out behind him or take a view of him on his side. And I guess if they lack experience with piggies they may not have noticed the inflamation.
Your boy is lucky to have such a caring owner who has found him the help he needs. Wishing you all the best for Wednesday.

The exotic vet actually showed me my other vet’s xray, it was very visible Really big stone, I feel terrible it’s taken this long to find it out for him I can’t imagine the pain he’s been in. I’m so annoyed about it and I really want my money back because they messed up so badly, Bobby’s entire trip here and with the surgery is just over €1,100. (Not that I care he’s worth every penny!) They truly couldn’t understand how everything got missed, just utter negligence. The exotic vet said it was all so obvious that even someone inexperienced should’ve seen it Will definitely be changing vets in future for my dogs and my cat’s sake, can’t trust them after this!

Thanks so much and I’m so glad your Arthur’s surgery was a success and he’s doing well! The vet’s seem confident it’ll go well because he’s in good physical condition and around 3 years old. So fingers crossed xx

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

The exotic vet actually showed me my other vet’s xray, it was very visible Really big stone, I feel terrible it’s taken this long to find it out for him I can’t imagine the pain he’s been in. I’m so annoyed about it and I really want my money back because they messed up so badly, Bobby’s entire trip here and with the surgery is just over €1,100. (Not that I care he’s worth every penny!) They truly couldn’t understand how everything got missed, just utter negligence. The exotic vet said it was all so obvious that even someone inexperienced should’ve seen it Will definitely be changing vets in future for my dogs and my cat’s sake, can’t trust them after this!

Thanks so much and I’m so glad your Arthur’s surgery was a success and he’s doing well! The vet’s seem confident it’ll go well because he’s in good physical condition and around 3 years old. So fingers crossed xx

Wow that is a surprise then. The best way to go about your complaint will be to contact the practice manager.
Please don't be hard on yourself for the time things have taken, you have acted promptly and always with Bobby's best interest at heart x