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Does anyone know what this noise means?

lauryn1289

lauryn1289

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Hi everyone, my last post here was about one of my boys Bobby who seems to be having some health issues we can’t quite pin. Just wondering if anyone knows for sure what type of noise this is? I’m assuming it’s pain but since I could be wrong just want to double check. I only ever heard it before when my boys bicker so it’s new out of that context for me.

For context, been not himself for a couple weeks and has been to the vet twice, weight has fluctuated around 100g, is on antibiotics, had an anti parasite, is currently on metacam, his heart and teeth are also fine. No gut stasis and is eating, just a little less it seems and less excitable and friendly than usual. More withdrawn. We originally thought a swollen toe was the culprit or his grease gland was infected but not 100% sure anymore.
 
Thought my video had uploaded but it doesn’t seem to upload :( I’ll try upload it to youtube and post a link! If anyone isn’t bothered opening the link I totally understand

7 January 2023
 
How often does he make the sound and what is he doing when he does?

The forum doesn’t have the capacity to host videos so linking from YouTube (or another platform) is fine 🙂
 
Siikibam said:
How often does he make the sound and what is he doing when he does?

The forum doesn’t have the capacity to host videos so linking from YouTube (or another platform) is fine 🙂
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Sometimes he’s literally just standing there and making it, sometimes he’s in his bed resting making it and sometimes he’s making it when he’s eating or walking around! Seems to be at any stage which is why I assume it is pain related? But could be totally wrong. He makes it every couple hours I would say, difficult to put a figure on it but I do hear it often and he’ll do it for maybe 10-30 seconds.

I wish there was more of a specific time I could notice he was doing it which might give me an idea of what’s happening but so far I’m stumped
 
Claire W said:
Aw bless him. What is he doing when he makes the sound? I.e weeing, pooing etc?
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He does it no matter what he’s doing! In bed resting, eating, pooping, walking around, literally any circumstance and he’ll mske it for maybe 10-30 seconds every couple hours if I was to hazard a guess. Nothing specific seems to trigger it which is why I’m confused by what exactly the noise is or what’s causing it if it is pain related :(
 
lauryn1289 said:
He does it no matter what he’s doing! In bed resting, eating, pooping, walking around, literally any circumstance and he’ll mske it for maybe 10-30 seconds every couple hours if I was to hazard a guess. Nothing specific seems to trigger it which is why I’m confused by what exactly the noise is or what’s causing it if it is pain related :(
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Does he live with another piggy? Have you shown the video of him making the noise to your vet? If your vet rules out s pain response, I wonder if he could be doing it out of annoyance towards his cage mate?
 
Claire W said:
Does he live with another piggy? Have you shown the video of him making the noise to your vet? If your vet rules out s pain response, I wonder if he could be doing it out of annoyance towards his cage mate?
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He sort of lives with 2 other piggies, I have a big L shaped C&C cage split off into 3 parts and they all live separated but where they can talk and interact with eachother. They decided they all didn’t want to live together a few months ago, suddenly a lot of bickering and a punctured cheek so they had to split up 😂 I don’t think it’s targeted at the other boys to be honest, he never seems to do it when he’s actually interacting with them and they don’t tend to bother eachother at all. They all get along really well and are really happy since they’ve got their own spaces

My vet hasn’t ruled out pain but we just can’t seem to figure out what exactly it could be causing him pain. I’ll be bringing him back in if there’s no change if this other course of antibiotics doesn’t work :(
 
In the video he might well be making it in response to you - if he sees you as a big guinea pig!

It can only be a guess - but if he makes the sound when he's on his own I'd start by looking at a bit of discomfort while peeing? The way to tell would be to keep an eye on him when he's on a dry surface, wait till he does it and then see if he's peed. It'll still be only a guess - perhaps he'll have peed before he makes the sound anyway. But I've heard similar before (although louder!) when one of mine was slowly dribbling out a painful wee.
 
Free Ranger said:
In the video he might well be making it in response to you - if he sees you as a big guinea pig!

It can only be a guess - but if he makes the sound when he's on his own I'd start by looking at a bit of discomfort while peeing? The way to tell would be to keep an eye on him when he's on a dry surface, wait till he does it and then see if he's peed. It'll still be only a guess - perhaps he'll have peed before he makes the sound anyway. But I've heard similar before (although louder!) when one of mine was slowly dribbling out a painful wee.
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Thank you that’s actually a really good idea! Neither me or my vets have really thought about peeing in more detail apart from is he peeing. I’ll get him out for some floor time and actually check how much he is peeing when he goes. He’s on .5mls of Enrofloxacin daily so I think urinary infection is unlikely but kidney or bladder stones never even occured to me, although I assume they’d be much more symptomatic but still want to rule it out now that I’ve thought of it. Thank you so much again!
 
Pound Shilling & Pig said:
The noise he is making suggests some kind of discomfort. I agree with @Free Ranger that it is most likely pain when weeing or wanting to wee.
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Thank you, going to keep a close eye on his peeing especially when his antibiotic course is finished and bring him back to the vets asap if I notice an issue!
 
My old boy (on the left) is the second pig I've had over the years that had a UTI that wasn't cleared by Baytril (which is the same as enro-thingy). He had to had a protracted course of Septrin to shift it, as did a little sow on a previous occasion. Usually it has worked for us but on these occasions although the Baytril did affect the UTI it just didn't clear it. But you'd expect that he'd be in a lot more pain, have blood tint to his pee, maybe have a wet tummy if he's dribbling etc. I'm wondering more about bladder sludge. I hear this can bung them up and make peeing difficult. We've not had a case of this - well not properly. My current girl Louise has occasional bouts of gritty pee which make her feel a bit depressed and down but it usually clears on its own within a day or so. She doesn't chirp but she does hide away and the other girl will sometimes snuggle her (unusual for these two). Try and find the spots where he's peed and see if there's proper grit there or just a smudge of 'powder'... which is kinda normal.

The other thing is see if you can cradle him on his back and have a feel along his penis ridge (sorry fella) because old George had a stone form in his penis this summer - luckily smooth, but it was a whopper. Unbelievably as big as a broad bean - you couldn't miss it. His flow was significantly impeded (there was actually a groove along the stone where he'd managed to pee past it) but he didn't chirp in pain at all so I'm assuming although there must have been a struggle to pee it didn't hurt particularly (mind you, he did squeak when the nice vet squeezed it out). So perhaps you could be looking at some sort of semi-blockage that is making it difficult to pee but not causing the sort of pain you get with a stone or UTI). I do think it's worth an x-ray, all things considered. This can show stones, sludge in the bladder and even sludge along the urethra. Piggy doesn't always need anaesthetic, although some vets might give 'a whiff of gas'. My vets will try first to swaddle piggy firmly in a towel which is usually enough.

Good luck Bobby, let us know how you get on x
 
Hi, the sound I am hearing is very similar to the noise my Ruby makes when she pees/poops. So I am guessing there could be some pain when going to the toilet. She is currently being treated for cystitis and is on rheumacam and cystease for cats. I agree with the above, keep an eye on your piggie and when he starts making this noise, have a look if possible to see if he has done either a wee wee or a poop. Definitely show this video to your vet. I really hope he is OK and it is something easily cleared up.
 
Free Ranger said:
My old boy (on the left) is the second pig I've had over the years that had a UTI that wasn't cleared by Baytril (which is the same as enro-thingy). He had to had a protracted course of Septrin to shift it, as did a little sow on a previous occasion. Usually it has worked for us but on these occasions although the Baytril did affect the UTI it just didn't clear it. But you'd expect that he'd be in a lot more pain, have blood tint to his pee, maybe have a wet tummy if he's dribbling etc. I'm wondering more about bladder sludge. I hear this can bung them up and make peeing difficult. We've not had a case of this - well not properly. My current girl Louise has occasional bouts of gritty pee which make her feel a bit depressed and down but it usually clears on its own within a day or so. She doesn't chirp but she does hide away and the other girl will sometimes snuggle her (unusual for these two). Try and find the spots where he's peed and see if there's proper grit there or just a smudge of 'powder'... which is kinda normal.

The other thing is see if you can cradle him on his back and have a feel along his penis ridge (sorry fella) because old George had a stone form in his penis this summer - luckily smooth, but it was a whopper. Unbelievably as big as a broad bean - you couldn't miss it. His flow was significantly impeded (there was actually a groove along the stone where he'd managed to pee past it) but he didn't chirp in pain at all so I'm assuming although there must have been a struggle to pee it didn't hurt particularly (mind you, he did squeak when the nice vet squeezed it out). So perhaps you could be looking at some sort of semi-blockage that is making it difficult to pee but not causing the sort of pain you get with a stone or UTI). I do think it's worth an x-ray, all things considered. This can show stones, sludge in the bladder and even sludge along the urethra. Piggy doesn't always need anaesthetic, although some vets might give 'a whiff of gas'. My vets will try first to swaddle piggy firmly in a towel which is usually enough.

Good luck Bobby, let us know how you get on x
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This is so helpful honestly thank you so much! On his first vet visit we were concerned about a swollen toe and on the second visit we thought maybe he had an infection of his grease gland because it seemed to hurt him when it was cleaned (it seemed bunged up) or a fungal infection as a whole, haven’t really been convinced of either of them being the cause so this is so informative.

He’s in best resting and munching some hay after his metacam and a weight check so I’ll let him relax for the night but tomorrow I’ll check his urine and the penis ridge!
Free Ranger said:
My old boy (on the left) is the second pig I've had over the years that had a UTI that wasn't cleared by Baytril (which is the same as enro-thingy). He had to had a protracted course of Septrin to shift it, as did a little sow on a previous occasion. Usually it has worked for us but on these occasions although the Baytril did affect the UTI it just didn't clear it. But you'd expect that he'd be in a lot more pain, have blood tint to his pee, maybe have a wet tummy if he's dribbling etc. I'm wondering more about bladder sludge. I hear this can bung them up and make peeing difficult. We've not had a case of this - well not properly. My current girl Louise has occasional bouts of gritty pee which make her feel a bit depressed and down but it usually clears on its own within a day or so. She doesn't chirp but she does hide away and the other girl will sometimes snuggle her (unusual for these two). Try and find the spots where he's peed and see if there's proper grit there or just a smudge of 'powder'... which is kinda normal.

The other thing is see if you can cradle him on his back and have a feel along his penis ridge (sorry fella) because old George had a stone form in his penis this summer - luckily smooth, but it was a whopper. Unbelievably as big as a broad bean - you couldn't miss it. His flow was significantly impeded (there was actually a groove along the stone where he'd managed to pee past it) but he didn't chirp in pain at all so I'm assuming although there must have been a struggle to pee it didn't hurt particularly (mind you, he did squeak when the nice vet squeezed it out). So perhaps you could be looking at some sort of semi-blockage that is making it difficult to pee but not causing the sort of pain you get with a stone or UTI). I do think it's worth an x-ray, all things considered. This can show stones, sludge in the bladder and even sludge along the urethra. Piggy doesn't always need anaesthetic, although some vets might give 'a whiff of gas'. My vets will try first to swaddle piggy firmly in a towel which is usually enough.

Good luck Bobby, let us know how you get on x
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Popcorns & Wheeks said:
Hi, the sound I am hearing is very similar to the noise my Ruby makes when she pees/poops. So I am guessing there could be some pain when going to the toilet. She is currently being treated for cystitis and is on rheumacam and cystease for cats. I agree with the above, keep an eye on your piggie and when he starts making this noise, have a look if possible to see if he has done either a wee wee or a poop. Definitely show this video to your vet. I really hope he is OK and it is something easily cleared up.
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you’re absolutely right it is his peeing!
 
Ok so I put him on some white pee pads on the floor and it is his pee afterall :( His urine is pink. I feel absolutely terrible that neither me or the vet spotted this. He was on 5 days of Baytril/Enrofloxacin around 2 weeks ago and he’s been on it again for a few days, does anyone know if that should that have cleared it up? I’ll be bringing him back to the vet as soon as possible. Thank you to everyone who suggested this because his bed has hay and coloured blankets and I have dark wood floors so I never noticed discolouration until i looked for it :(
 
lauryn1289 said:
Ok so I put him on some white pee pads on the floor and it is his pee afterall :( His urine is pink. I feel absolutely terrible that neither me or the vet spotted this. He was on 5 days of Baytril/Enrofloxacin around 2 weeks ago and he’s been on it again for a few days, does anyone know if that should that have cleared it up? I’ll be bringing him back to the vet as soon as possible. Thank you to everyone who suggested this because his bed has hay and coloured blankets and I have dark wood floors so I never noticed discolouration until i looked for it :(
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I'm not sure exactly how long the baytril takes to have an effect but I'm sure after a course and some more it should have begun to do its job.

I would definitely take him back to the vets and if at all possible collect a urine sample, it is very difficult but can be done. I put my piggies in a plastic box and watch them very closely till they have done their business. I use a 1ml syringe to suck the wee in and then put it into a plastic urine sample bottle, that's if you have one? I also store it in the fridge if the vets visit isn't right away.

Please don't feel terrible, I also failed to spot bladder problems with my piggies due to dark coloured fleecing, it can easily be done. At least now you know and you can tell your vet. I hope he is OK and goodluck at the vets. Please keep us posted.
 
Popcorns & Wheeks said:
I'm not sure exactly how long the baytril takes to have an effect but I'm sure after a course and some more it should have begun to do its job.

I would definitely take him back to the vets and if at all possible collect a urine sample, it is very difficult but can be done. I put my piggies in a plastic box and watch them very closely till they have done their business. I use a 1ml syringe to suck the wee in and then put it into a plastic urine sample bottle, that's if you have one? I also store it in the fridge if the vets visit isn't right away.

Please don't feel terrible, I also failed to spot bladder problems with my piggies due to dark coloured fleecing, it can easily be done. At least now you know and you can tell your vet. I hope he is OK and goodluck at the vets. Please keep us posted.
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Since his first course of Baytril was 5 days and then a long break of a good few days before another prescription I’m hoping maybe the 5 days initially just wasn’t enough and the break in between stopped any progress. When Bobby had a wound on his cheek from a bite last year he was on Baytril for 8-10 days if I remember correctly so 5 days seemed very short to me :(
Either way I’ll get him back to the vet asap, hopefully they can see him Monday evening and I have a tonne of syringes lying around for his antibiotics luckily and a big plastic tub, I’ll get a sample the day of or the night before I can get him to the vets! I wouldn’t have thought of doing that for a urine sample so thank you so much :)
 
Yer maybe the course was too short. I know with my 🌈 piggie Dexter who I just lost after Christmas, his course was for 14 days, he was also on nutracyst aswell. The vet asked me to get a urine sample of his as they could not express his bladder due to just undergoing surgery. They may be able to express Bobby's bladder but if not, at least you have a sample there if they need one. All the best for Monday.
 
I know I would rather get a sample than watch the vet express my piggies bladders again. In all honesty, it wasn't a nice experience with my other piggie, she screamed the place down bless her.
 
Popcorns & Wheeks said:
Yer maybe the course was too short. I know with my 🌈 piggie Dexter who I just lost after Christmas, his course was for 14 days, he was also on nutracyst aswell. The vet asked me to get a urine sample of his as they could not express his bladder due to just undergoing surgery. They may be able to express Bobby's bladder but if not, at least you have a sample there if they need one. All the best for Monday.
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Thank you so much and I’m so sorry about your Dexter :( ❤️
 
Hi, the blood on his urine could be due to an infection, inflamation, sludge or a bladder stone. The best way to diagnose, or rule out, bladder stones is by x-ray, which usually requires a bit of gas so the best views can be taken. If it does turn out to be a stone he will require surgery to have it removed. I would discuss this possibility with your vet and find out if they are experienced with the required surgery. One of my pigs had to have a bladder stone removed last year and he has done really well ever since. Wishing you all the best.
 
Pound Shilling & Pig said:
Hi, the blood on his urine could be due to an infection, inflamation, sludge or a bladder stone. The best way to diagnose, or rule out, bladder stones is by x-ray, which usually requires a bit of gas so the best views can be taken. If it does turn out to be a stone he will require surgery to have it removed. I would discuss this possibility with your vet and find out if they are experienced with the required surgery. One of my pigs had to have a bladder stone removed last year and he has done really well ever since. Wishing you all the best.
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Hopefully it’s not, my vets definitely don’t have a lot of experience with that :( I’ll try get him to the vet tomorrow and ask for an X ray!
 
Antibiotics... whichever one you get and whatever the dose/course you'll be looking for the same pattern:

If your problem is bacterial infection and you start a course of antibiotics you should see a clear improvement in symptoms within the first 24 to 48 hours unless your bug is resistant... but more on that below. The course might be anything from a few days to a few weeks and should always be completed. You might get a lower dose for longer or a higher dose for a shorter time. You don't see an immediate result because although the AB starts working straight away it takes a little while for the numbers of bacteria to be reduced and the body to clear up the aftermath and reduce the inflammation. And there can be millions of bacteria in there so although the bulk are cleared in the first few days it's important to get the lot... or they'll come back again. So if you have the correct antibiotic the pattern you should see is: 1-3 days = symptoms reduce and disappear; rest of the course = no symptoms, antibiotics finish = no symptoms.
(If we've see no change in our symptoms after 3 days I generally contact my vet and they generally tell me to come in and just pick up an alternative AB)

Crudely, if in the first few days you see no change in his symptoms either you've got a resistant bug (in which case you try a different AB) or it's not actually an infection at all (so they'll have no effect anyway).

Whereas if the symptoms clear in the pattern described above but then return within a few days of you finishing the course you've had an effective antibiotic for your infection but the course wasn't long enough and a few surviving stragglers multiply up and you're back to square one!

George started with a standard 5 days on Baytril and although there seemed to be a slight reduction in his symptoms they didn't clear... but because there was some change I kept him on the course for the 5 days this time. When his course finished his crying got worse immediately so he was switched onto Septrin for 10 days. After 24 hours everything seemed to clear completely and he felt much less pain but unfortunately for George after 24 hours he also completely lost his appetite on this one (vet was surprised as she said it's regarded as a gentler option). After the 10 days he came off it - in a day or two was back to eating everything in sight but then unfortunately started crying again a day later and had to go back on it and this time for nearly 3 weeks. Same pattern - he picked up no end after only a day or so (but again lost his appetite... what a battle eh, George) but this time the longer course cleared it. The same thing had happened a few years back with a little sow who had a UTI although in her case the Septrin didn't bother her at all.

We've had UTI with stones and UTI without stones... sometimes on x-ray you'll unfortunately see a stone but that doesn't mean there's not a UTI. We've certainly had more UTIs over the years than stones. Once we see a stone we tend to think only of that and not about anything else more minor but it's important not to forget you can have both at the same time!
 
Free Ranger said:
Antibiotics... whichever one you get and whatever the dose/course you'll be looking for the same pattern:

If your problem is bacterial infection and you start a course of antibiotics you should see a clear improvement in symptoms within the first 24 to 48 hours unless your bug is resistant... but more on that below. The course might be anything from a few days to a few weeks and should always be completed. You might get a lower dose for longer or a higher dose for a shorter time. You don't see an immediate result because although the AB starts working straight away it takes a little while for the numbers of bacteria to be reduced and the body to clear up the aftermath and reduce the inflammation. And there can be millions of bacteria in there so although the bulk are cleared in the first few days it's important to get the lot... or they'll come back again. So if you have the correct antibiotic the pattern you should see is: 1-3 days = symptoms reduce and disappear; rest of the course = no symptoms, antibiotics finish = no symptoms.
(If we've see no change in our symptoms after 3 days I generally contact my vet and they generally tell me to come in and just pick up an alternative AB)

Crudely, if in the first few days you see no change in his symptoms either you've got a resistant bug (in which case you try a different AB) or it's not actually an infection at all (so they'll have no effect anyway).

Whereas if the symptoms clear in the pattern described above but then return within a few days of you finishing the course you've had an effective antibiotic for your infection but the course wasn't long enough and a few surviving stragglers multiply up and you're back to square one!

George started with a standard 5 days on Baytril and although there seemed to be a slight reduction in his symptoms they didn't clear... but because there was some change I kept him on the course for the 5 days this time. When his course finished his crying got worse immediately so he was switched onto Septrin for 10 days. After 24 hours everything seemed to clear completely and he felt much less pain but unfortunately for George after 24 hours he also completely lost his appetite on this one (vet was surprised as she said it's regarded as a gentler option). After the 10 days he came off it - in a day or two was back to eating everything in sight but then unfortunately started crying again a day later and had to go back on it and this time for nearly 3 weeks. Same pattern - he picked up no end after only a day or so (but again lost his appetite... what a battle eh, George) but this time the longer course cleared it. The same thing had happened a few years back with a little sow who had a UTI although in her case the Septrin didn't bother her at all.

We've had UTI with stones and UTI without stones... sometimes on x-ray you'll unfortunately see a stone but that doesn't mean there's not a UTI. We've certainly had more UTIs over the years than stones. Once we see a stone we tend to think only of that and not about anything else more minor but it's important not to forget you can have both at the same time!
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Yes of course, thank you so much! Gonna keep note of the other antibiotic you mentioned.

I do notice a change in Bobby’s behaviour, he’s not as withdrawn as he was and he is seemingly out a lot more and more social again just with pain when peeing but I don’t know whether to see that as a good sign or meaningless really.

If the vet can see him tomorrow I’ll ask for an xray and see if maybe finishing a longer course of Baytril is a good idea or possibly moving to another antibiotic. My vet isn’t an exotic vet so if a stone is found I’ll happily drive him a couple hours away to one and get it sorted :(
 
Sorry for another question! His metacam is the cat version so 0.5mg/ml and I’ve been giving him .4mls of it twice a day. I gave him .4mls at around 4pm and just accidentally gave him about .6 1/3 mls of a syringe of it, I drew too much metacam and was going to keep the rest of the syringe for the morning but he tried to bolt midway because he’s fed up with syringes now, I assume not but is this a large overdose? I know this may be a really stupid question because I do know they have a fast metabolism and are less prone to overdose problems than cats but I’m a worrier
 
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