Does anyone else find bugs in their rodent enclosures?

[Sue_P]

About a year ago I asked this on the Rodents With Attitude forum but no one there had any experience of it, basically I’ve found little minute tinsy winsy bugs in my rodent pen. I found them about a year ago and they were just in one area, I seemed to eradicate them after a week or two just by removing the hay and newspaper in the area that they were in but now they’re back. I have a new batch!

I have them happily living in a couple of areas of my pen, areas which I don’t muck out often as my roddies don’t go to those areas to sleep or pee so they’re just left dormant and untouched for weeks at a time. I noticed them last week in one spot and last night found them in a second spot so pulled everything up for a thorough look. There seems to be different species of bugs, the very small teeny weeny reddy brown ones which you can hardly see at all cos they’re so small (I had them last year) and now there’s some bigger black ones of a different variety about 1mm long and from what I can tell they seem happy living in the undisturbed areas of my pen and live in amongst the hay. If I pull the hay up and shake it they fall down onto the newspaper below. Last night I got rid of as many as possible but it’s a near impossible task unless I strip everything in the pen out and there’s about 2 inches of cardboard, newspaper and magazines on the floor so it’s one very large job to get all that up and a severe waste of paper and hay if I chuck the whole lot out. I was thinking of just doing my best and daily getting rid of the ones I can see ‘til their numbers are very low or they disappear altogether but I imagine they’ve been breeding very well in my pen for a while.

I think it’s pointless me attempting to get photos of them as my camera is rubbish and I’d never be able to zoom into something 1 millimetre or less long. Was just wondering if anyone has had experience of tiny bug infestations and also can they affect my rodents? I presume if they were blood sucking monsters they’d have run off to my rodent bed areas and would be crawling all over where they sleep but they’re not there at all.

Yes I clear those areas out daily but I’m sure some would be able to hide in amongst the newspaper or the hay I put back and remerge for an attack, they seem quite happy just staying where they are away from my rodents. Do you think they’re nothing to worry about?

Here’s a pic of my pen so you get an idea of the set-up, one place the bugs are is under the chair inside that brown box with magazines on the top, my rodents haven’t been in that for months. The other bug infestation is out of view in this shot, bottom left corner.

 

[Poppy'sMum]

It's possible they are book lice. Do they look like this:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGUtkm1MrP0IWMY9z8LsILmp6nobksHrSAr7qGPZhz9wmeexTzjA

If you can see them they may be too big to be hay lice. To check for hay lice, have you looked closely under the fur on the bottom half of your piggie's backs to see if they have tiny black specks close to the hair shaft? If they have got any black specks then they may have hay lice (known as static lice)

 

[Scribble]

Personally I would clean the entire thing, disinfect and start from fresh, I wouldn't want bugs living and breeding in my pets home or in my own home even if they were harmless.


Is their something waterproof down protecting the base of the pen? If theirs bugs then hay and cardboard/magazines/newspaper is a perfect breeding ground for them if it gets damp/peed on/pooped on even if it is in a place the pigs don't visit often.

 

[Sue_P]

Thanks for the responses. Well last night I spent 1 hour 30 mucking my roddies out and digging around trying to find more bugs. I went under the cardboard tunnels as there’s hay under them stopping them from rolling around and again bugs were in amongst that lot and around most of the sides of the pen, the bits that don’t get cleaned out anyway. I haven’t yet checked my roddies skin for bugs but I will do tonight. Also it dawned on me this morning that I should check the new bale of hay I’m using, there’s zero point in pulling up old hay with bugs in to put new hay down that also has bugs in.

What a nightmare.

Thanks for the book lice pic Poppy’sMom, yeah the small reddy brown bugs could be book lice. There’s the larger black ones though still which are shaped a bit like 1mm long beetles. I should probably investigate bug forums and see if there’s any nerds who know all about bug types and how they live and if they’re a problem.

Scribble my floor is wood laminate but I didn’t want rodent pee on it as I thought it may discolour it so the pen is lined with large sheets of cardboard as a base layer and over the last 2 or 3 years I’ve been putting down layers and layers of newspaper and magazines. I started off with a thinnish layer but now it’s very thick, one reason for that was because the cardboard made it a bit bumpy and putting down lots of layers evened it out a bit but yeah, now years down the line I think I have too much paper down.

 

[Sue_P]

I’m taking on board your suggestion to take everything out and start from scratch, I may end up doing that but it’s one heck of a job, I can see it taking hours.

What I’m worried about it taking stuff up but accidentally leaving some bugs, some could hide under the wood of the pen, my worry is that I’ll re-lay everything fresh and then they’ll start breeding again. It would be interesting to know how long these things live for and if they live all year or if I should expect them to die soon.

I live by water and woodland and have outbreaks of annoying insects, lake fly season does my head in, they get in the house and are just damn annoying but that lasts about a month. Then there’s the greenfly in droves in summer. Summer moth season which freaks me out cos I’m scared of moths and my house gets plagued by them.

I was getting about 20 small dead flies per day on my rodents window bottom in mid summer (very annoying), but that’s died the death and I don’t get any now. Next up is wasp time when they enter my house cos it’s too cold outside.

If these critters turn out not to actually be harmful to my rodents and they’re seasonal then that’d be good. For the rest of the week I intend to keep rooting around the places where I think they are and get up as many as poss, check my roddies skin and the hay bale and try to find out if the bugs are harmful in any way.


Oh BTW, I found two grub maggotty looking things buried in amongst hay out of the way too.

I think I’m making my house sound horrendous, anyone fancy coming round for a cuppa?

 

[AndreaJane]

You need to change the cardboard and paper completely every week - sorry, but it's not really clear from what you've written how often you do a complete change and refresh ( or am I just being a bit dim? mallethead ). If you're not doing that then you'll never be rid of creepy crawlies. Have you thought about changing to a correx base instead of cardboard as that will keep it's shape and can be disinfected every week?

 

[Little Pig]

Hi Sue

I haven't come across these bugs before. However, my first thought when reading your post was that they are possibly getting in to the cage through the hay? I would definitely check the bale and depending on what you find, perhaps consider getting your hay from somewhere else?

If it was me, I would also completely clean out the cage at this stage too. I would throw away all of the cardboard, layers of newspaper etc and start from fresh. I don't think having permanent layers of newspaper etc that never gets changed is healthy. The maggots are extremely worrying and I just wouldn't risk it if it were me. I may even consider lifting the cage itself up and cleaning the base of the wood.

Also, my pig is on wood laminate flooring and as long as you have 3 or 4 coats of varnish it doesn't stain. I have one layer of newspaper over most of the floor (which is changed daily) and I clean the entire floor every other day. I also use incontinence pads in his favourite spots and these get changed daily as well. I am waiting for some fleece throws to be delivered and will be switching to these soon.

edit: just realised you can see the wood flooring in my avatar picture!

 

[lauralucy]

you dont have to throw the hay away, you can put it in the microwave for about 30 seconds and this kils any bugs in the hay. wait to cool and then give to the piglets.

 

[Sue_P]

@ AndreaJane - I haven’t done a total refresh I don’t think. I think I did a nearly total refresh once yonks ago but nope, the cardboard underneath hasn’t seen the light of day for about a year or two and it’s been there since I got my rodents. I had a rabbit before my rodents and after he died everything including cardboard got binned and new stuff put down. The cardboard never gets wet cos there’s about an inch of paper on top it. I’ve been mucking out daily, I used to do it twice a day but for the last year I’ve done it once, I go round and remove all newspaper that’s peed on, pick up all the poos, bin hay that’s peed on and keep the rest of the hay there and add some fresh on top to replace the amount I’ve removed. & if it’s starting to smell and not peed on I’ll chuck that too. Takes me about half an hour every day, sometime I wish I had them in a smaller area as it would be half as much work.

I’d never heard of Correx but having something other than the folded out cardboard boxes I’ve got as a base layer is a good idea as it is lumpy. Oh I totally forgot, I had put down lino in about 50% of the pen underneath, I did it so long ago that I’d forgotten.

 

[Sue_P]

@ Little Pig – I think the grub maggotty things might be baby moths actually or some other flying thing. I found some around my house in random places in early spring too much to my disgust.

I even found one inside a closed plastic container, God alone knows how it got in there. The mind boggles.

Lifting the mdf pen walls up to clean underneath is impossible, it’s too heavy. My mum and I slid it along the floor a few inches one time and even with two of us pulling and pushing it it was hard work, if any bugs manage to hang onto the underside of the pen walls during a total cleanout they’ll just have to stay there as it’s impossible to lift it up. Just have to hope none manage to stick to it.


Yep, I need to change my set-up and go for the less is more option.

In future I’m gonna have much less protection over my floor.

 

[Sue_P]

@ lauralucy – My God! That sounds murderously evil!

Not sure I have the nature to microwave bugs to death.

Never even thought of microwaving hay before either. What do you put it in? A washing up bowl? Do they melt?

 

[lauralucy]

i've never done it but i know people who have and the vet advised me to once as well. i think normal plastic food bags.

 

[Sue_P]

Update: -

Rodents – No critters on their skin under their fur, I gave them a thorough look.

Bale of hay – It sits in a plastic bag (not recommended I know), I haven’t much left of that bale so was able to pick it up and look at the underneath through the transparent plastic and I can’t spot any bugs in there. There was one under the bag when I lifted it up but that could have come from the pen right by it. If there are any in the hay bale there’s certainly not an infestation. However I’ve decided to give all my hay to my mum and she’ll use it for her outdoor rabbits and I’ll get a new bale for my house.

Last night’s bug count – Was up ‘til midnight searching for more but didn’t find many at all, perhaps about 15 in the pen. Think I’d done such a thorough job the past previous nights that I’d removed the bulk although I presume there’s still bugs hiding under the layers of newspaper which will get unearthed on the weekend when I strip out.

One freaky thing was that some of the black bugs had taken a holiday and were by my window and crawling on my walls!

Only a few but they’re obviously mobile enough to climb about or quite possibly fly. The black ones do look like mini beetles, the smallest are 1mm long, the biggest 2mm long. I’m now paranoid that there’s things lurking now in every inch of my house.

I also found one more maggoty larvae thing, this time underneath the mat next to the rodent pen. Eww.

 

[missy]

I just wanted to ask exactly what kind of rodents you keep in that pen, as you refer to them as "rodents" rather than a specific species.

Also, if you're not familiar with Flystrike then I'd seriously urge you to look into that, bearing in mind the maggot type things you've found.

 

[Sue_P]

Rodents = guineapigs.

No fly strike, I was checking bottoms and willys last night.

 

[sazmatazz]

I would suggest clearing the whole lot out, disinfecting your floor and then placing a tarpaulin or plastic sheet down before you add any card or newspaper.
If you then keep the layers to a minimum, i.e. change the high traffic/toilet areas daily as you have been doing but ALSO do a full clean and disinfect every couple of weeks, there will never be enough build up for the bugs to live in.
I personally do a full clean including disinfectant every couple of days - having a plastic base at the very bottom would make this much easier for you and would mean you'd need less layers due to no risk of damage to your floors.

 

[sazmatazz]

also - presumably you can get into the run through some sort of gate or something, if you have a plastic sheet down, in theory you could trap the piggies in one corner, clear out your new thin layer of paper and sweep/disinfect the plastic before laying new paper and putting down fresh hay. you then don't need to worry about lifing it up or anything.

 

[flintstones]

Hi Sue -

Nice to see you and your rodents are well , perhaps go to the carpet shop and ask for a Lino offcut to protect your floor then either line your pen with newspaper or perhaps incontinence pads with fleece on top and hay trays.

With newspaper or fleece you will still need to do 5-7 days clean depending on your pen.

HTH

 

[wales1000]

i have had very small maggots in my cages twice in a few years, with the hot weather, i was mortified to see them as i always clean them out, but in the hot weather you get darn flies in the house

 

[emmalala]

I found a load of earwigs in the outdoor hutch earlier this year >>>>>>

 

[Splat n Dexter]

Personally I'm shocked that you haven't seen the base of the piggies living quarters in so long that you forgot what you had down there. :{

Their cages should be completely cleaned out and disinfected once a week (at the very, very least, once a fortnight at a stretch) in order to prevent any problems.

You need to have a serious look at your animal husbandry and up your game.

 

[Sue_P]

@ sazmatazz: –
Cheers, all useful advice.

@ flintstones: –
I don’t want to use fleece, I really can’t be bothered with using the washing machine all the time and it sounds pretty rank. I have one rodent that drinks more than the other and one days worth of pee is just…

. I don’t want anything that unhygenic going in my washing machine.

I’m far happier just grabbing a load of rank newspaper and shoving it in the bin.

I’m wracking my brain for things I could use as a base layer, not sure if I’m brave enough to start begging at carpet shops for lino off cuts.

I’m sure I must have something else I could use. I’m debating whether to steal a huge dust extractor bag from work and cut it up so it lays flat, that should do the trick. Lino in the entire area of the pen would be better though.

@ wales1000 and emmalala: –
I’ve been googling bugs and larvae the past couple of days and I’ve read some right horror stories. People getting moth larvae on their ceilings, they sweep them off and disinfect but by the next day there’s more and they’re having all hell on trying to rid their house of them. & do you know caterpillars can eat through plastic bags to get to food inside? On the weekend I’m sticking my head into the very back of my food cupboard, I’m gonna stand up on a chair to see into the cupboard where I keep my bog rolls then inspect the airing cupboard and under my bathroom sink at the very back behind all my tubs of paint, basically anywhere where I don't often look and then I'm gonna totally vacuum the house and get behind all furniture. All these bug stories and infestations are giving me the heebers jeebers.

New update: -

Had another good search for bugs last night. None on the walls and only found some in one place of the pen, about 15. I think where I’ve gone wrong with how I had my set-up was that some hay (not much) was inbetween layers in the newspaper, the bugs have only been hiding in buried hay. I don’t think there’s many more bugs in my pen but I’ll still be having a total clearout on the weekend. Next week if I find more I'll come back and fill you in.

Fingers crossed I won't be talking about bugs anymore soon.

 

[Poppy'sMum]

If they are book lice than they love any paper of any kind, newspapers, cardboard etc. They are very hard to get rid of, my garage has a few at least because it is perfect for them (loads of old books, paper etc :red) they like humid conditions (sweaty piggies are perfect lol)

All I can say is bin the lot, hay, cardboard boxes, newspapers & any hideys not made from plastic which you can wash, & start again, & always use fresh newspaper at every clean.

 

[Sue_P]

@ Poppy’sMum – I think I may have book lice living in my built-in furniture in my living room where I keep videos and books. They’ve always been there, I occasionally see one dash around below my videos.

Went for a look yesterday and sure enough found one, don’t seem to be within my books though, I’ve only really noticed them in my middle drawer with video tapes in. Well I presume they’re book lice, hard to tell cos they’re so tiny and fast.

 

[Sue_P]

Update: -

I spent 6 hours cleaning!

I told you it was a job and a half to strip everything out.

Both my wheelie bins are jam packed with old newspaper and I filled my next-door neighbour’s bin to the brim with bug infested paper too which she was none too pleased about.

I unfortunately had to then pile up cardboard boxes and old huge cardboard sheets at the side of my hut as I’d run out of bins. That’s up to waist height, hope critters in that lot don’t move and make a home in my hut as I have tonnes of newspaper inches from where I put the cardboard, plus a new bale of hay which this time I decided to keep in my hut rather than indoors. Mind you, with the wind forecast I doubt by the time I get home any cardboard will still be in my garden.

I was absolutely exhausted after cleaning all that lot out and vacuuming around the sides of the pen. There were some pee stains on my laminate floor (one’s that managed to sneak down at the sides) but they came off fine with some Flash. All bugs are out of my house as far as I know. Did drop a load of cardboard and old hay on one trip outside though all over my carpet.

But when I was cleaning out I didn’t see very many bugs at all, I’d got 95% during last week. I’ve put less newspaper down and haven’t covered the pen with a top layer of hay, I also have only 3 boxes in it now and my rodents don’t seem happy at all.

Cleaning took longer than anticipated so they were stuck in the living room for 4 hours which I’m sure upset them and then they returned to their home and found it had totally changed, it’s not as rodent friendly as it was before and not as much fun.

They liked roaming all around foraging in the hay and would sit out for social events in the middle on top of hay, now it’s basically 3 boxes and a whole lot of open space of just newspaper. Think they’ll settle in and get used to it but I can tell they’re not thrilled with the new set-up. Mucking out has been so much easier though, I used to spend 30 minutes per day lifting up boxes and hay searching for pees and trying not to step on the roddies or any obstacles, now I just have 3 areas to do, there hasn’t been any pees yet out in the open, probably due to them spending very little time out in the open. Also now that there isn’t hay everywhere I haven’t been accidentally standing in wee.

I’m digging my rodents’ relationship, I thought the stress would make them grumpy and want to fight but it’s done the opposite, no fighting in the living room in cramped conditions and when I brought them back to their pen they stuck together and shared a bed, usually not a thing they’d consider, haven’t seen them have a fall-out since I changed everything.

 

[Abi_nurse]

Have they still got hay though? Are you covering the floor with anything?

x

 

[Sue_P]

There’s hay in their bed areas under the three boxes. & a little bit clumped together in the pen and a bit if the hay rack where their water bottle sits.

& nope, I couldn’t find anything plastic to line my laminate floor with. I took the old pieces of lino outside and scrubbed them and brought them back, they cover about half the pen and I just laid newspaper over the top of the lino and bare laminate floor. Approx two newspapers thick over the entire area.

 

[sazmatazz]

I found a load of earwigs in the outdoor hutch earlier this year >>>>>>

that's just reminded me, I used to find earwigs in my piggies hutch when we used to keep them outside when I was younger! Yuck!

 

[BellasMummy]

If you cleaned the area more often then it wouldn't take 6 hours. I only have 2 pigs and spend about 10/15 minutes each day cleaning up poos and then a full clean once a week which takes about 40 minutes. I personally do everything I can to prevent bugs, I can't imagine anything worse than there cage getting into that sort of state.

 

[rodentlady1987]

I think my girls enclosure is a tad smaller than yours .. but they are on care fresh or meadow straw (chopped up) with newspaper underneath and hay on top, with a corner with fleece. I poo pick daily and do a full disinfection clean once a week, and I have never had bugs in the enclosure .... it only takes an hour tops. I would try cleaning a tad more often, I think that its true if you cleaned more often it wouldn't take as long

I hope you manage to sort your bug problem out! @)