Discharge from nose

[andisafc]

Thanks, I will change to mornings now, sorry I think I was told before but I forgot with everything that was going on previously?

Sorry I’m on my phone & it doesn’t show up on here about the Guinea Pig magazine.

Promise I’ll stop being a pain

Sorry it is me again, I started Bramble on the medicine last night with fibreplex 2 hours afterwards & although he hasn’t lost any weight I can see he isn’t eating this morning, he is trying to eat veggies, hay etc but it’s like he can’t? Is this normal? Obviously I’m going to syringe feed him now. Just wondering if you’ve seen this before? I wasn’t expecting it to affect him so quickly? x

 

[andisafc]

@Wiebke

 

[Wiebke]

Sorry it is me again, I started Bramble on the medicine last night with fibreplex 2 hours afterwards & although he hasn’t lost any weight I can see he isn’t eating this morning, he is trying to eat veggies, hay etc but it’s like he can’t? Is this normal? Obviously I’m going to syringe feed him now. Just wondering if you’ve seen this before? I wasn’t expecting it to affect him so quickly? x

Hi

Please step in full feeding support. When Zithromax hits, it hits hard unfortunately. I am very sorry but if the alternative is potentially or definitely losing your piggy, you need to push through with it.

Please ensure that you spread the feeds from first thing in the morning to last thing in the evening but make sure that you get some unbroken sleep at night to keep your own exhaustion at bay (plan for 6 hours unbroken rest). Aim for getting ideally 60 ml into him over 24 hours but make sure that he gets the absolute minimum of 40 ml; the normal food intake is about 90-120 ml in a healthy adult. Brace for having to fight for every millilitre and aim at getting at least 5 ml of feed into him in every feeding session; ideally as close as you can come to 10 ml but you may not achieve that. Also offer water from a syringe between feeds, whenever he starts chewing on cud but please don't give more than 0.3 ml in one go so he can hold it in mouth. If not, it will go up into the nose (which will make funny sounds) or down into the bronchia or lungs and he hs to cough it up again.
You will find the tips in this link here helpful; especially the chapter about uncooperative piggies: All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

You can give your vet a call and ask whether you could split the zithromax dose to give half every 12 hours. It is going to dampen its efficiency but it can sometimes bring back the appetite at least partially. If that doesn't work, then go back to single dose and fight it out for the rest of the week. I am very sorry; the next few days are going to be very tough for you but keep in mind that you are fighting for a life and that this is something worth fighting for.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I use Zithromax a lot with our sanctuary guinea pigs, as many arrive with abscesses. In over 12 years of using it, I’ve only had one piggy stop eating, so it may be he’s feeling unwell rather than the affect of the antibiotic. What dose are you giving? My vet always prescribes it as twice a day, at a daily dose of 1 ml per kilo body weight. Giving twice daily does not affect the efficacy. We currently have Puck on it and as he weighs 900g, he is getting a daily dose of 0.9ml, that is split into two doses of 0.45ml.

 

[Wiebke]

I use Zithromax a lot with our sanctuary guinea pigs, as many arrive with abscesses. In over 12 years of using it, I’ve only had one piggy stop eating, so it may be he’s feeling unwell rather than the affect of the antibiotic. What dose are you giving? My vet always prescribes it as twice a day, at a daily dose of 1 ml per kilo body weight. Giving twice daily does not affect the efficacy. We currently have Puck on it and as he weighs 900g, he is getting a daily dose of 0.9ml, that is split into two doses of 0.45ml. View attachment 245987

Hi

I am citing Simon Maddock (the same vet you are using, for the thread poster's information) re. efficacy in a case when I was treating an elderly sow of mine for a nasty eye infection where eye removal was not an option due ot her advanced age.
He ws very reluctant to allow me to split the dose; thankfully it still worked and she regained enough appetite to no longer fight the syringe but not enough to eat on her own but we got through another 2 1/2 half weeks of zithromax that way.

 

[andisafc]

Thank you both so much for replying! I’m going out of my mind!

@Wiebke yes I have got about 14ml into him over an hour ago. He was not happy with this at all but I did manage to get him to eat a couple of slices of cucumber. Or do you think I shouldn’t feed him any veggies? Thanks very much for the link, have read it thoroughly & it’s very helpful thank you. I have work during the day so I really don’t know how I’m going to do this but I’m going to give it my best shot. Tried giving him some water from a syringe but he just let it run out?

@furryfriends (TEAS) That’s the exact bottle I have, he has been prescribed 1ml once daily (he is roughly 1300g) for 14days! He was pottering & popcorning about fine until about 4 hours after having the medicine? He honestly has hardly any discharge in his nose but they’re not wanting to take a chance with him as we couldn’t get it cleared with his cage mate Donnie & it was only after a lung flush that they found this was the only antibiotic that would be affective with what he had? Saying that, it is now over 4 weeks since we had him pts & Bramble only showed symptoms 6 days ago.

We’ve been through so much since October that it’s hard not to get straight back to feeling how we did when it was at its worst. Thank you both again.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

Hi

I am citing Simon Maddock (the same vey you are using) re. efficacy when I was treating an elderly sow of mine for a nasty eye infection where eye removal was not an option. He reluctantly allowed me to split the dose; thankfully it still worked and she regained enough appetite to no longer fight the syringe but not enough to eat on her own.

Simon has been splitting the dose for many years. I know he used to give it as one dose, but it’s been a very long time since I gave it as a once a day dose. Maybe they know more about the best way to dose it now. It's all to do with the half-life of a drug.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

For a guinea pig weighing 1.3k, Simon would prescribe at 0.65ml twice daily. However, you may have been prescribed lower due to it being given as a precaution, rather than for a known infection. Feed him whatever he enjoys, as it is important to keep food going through. Will he eat grass? I find that is the thing that most piggies will eat, if feeling a bit under the weather.

 

[andisafc]

For a guinea pig weighing 1.3k, Simon would prescribe at 0.65ml twice daily. However, you may have been prescribed lower due to it being given as a precaution, rather than for a known infection. Feed him whatever he enjoys, as it is important to keep food going through. Will he eat grass? I find that is the thing that most piggies will eat, if feeling a bit under the weather.

I’m worried about bloat if I give him the veggies? He hasn’t ever really had grass as our garden grass has always been full of bad weeds that I wouldn’t want them anywhere near? He did like dandelion leaves when I gave them every now & again.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you both so much for replying! I’m going out of my mind!

@Wiebke yes I have got about 14ml into him over an hour ago. He was not happy with this at all but I did manage to get him to eat a couple of slices of cucumber. Or do you think I shouldn’t feed him any veggies? Thanks very much for the link, have read it thoroughly & it’s very helpful thank you. I have work during the day so I really don’t know how I’m going to do this but I’m going to give it my best shot. Tried giving him some water from a syringe but he just let it run out?

@furryfriends (TEAS) That’s the exact bottle I have, he has been prescribed 1ml once daily (he is roughly 1300g) for 14days! He was pottering & popcorning about fine until about 4 hours after having the medicine? He honestly has hardly any discharge in his nose but they’re not wanting to take a chance with him as we couldn’t get it cleared with his cage mate Donnie & it was only after a lung flush that they found this was the only antibiotic that would be affective with what he had? Saying that, it is now over 4 weeks since we had him pts & Bramble only showed symptoms 6 days ago.

We’ve been through so much since October that it’s hard not to get straight back to feeling how we did when it was at its worst. Thank you both again.

Hi

If he is eating cucumber, he has not totally lost his appetite and he has not lost his need to drink yet; the need to drink is stronger than the need to eat.
Any veg he eats is great and 14 ml is a good session - again, it shows that he hasn't lost his appetite completely. Try to get as much as feed into him as you can - the more you get into him in one session the less often you have to feed. Your aim is to minimise any major weight loss at this stage and help him to fight the bug with his own body reserves as much as possible. You will see when you weigh him again by tomorrow morning whether what you are doing is working, whether you need to dial up or can dial down your support. But you are on the ball straight away, and that is the important thing that is going to make a bit difference since you do not have to play catch up in the first place.

The feeding supprt is there to replace the hay he is not eating, which makes over three quarters of what a piggy is eating in a day and which is what keeps the gut running and stable.
Also try some herbs, lettuce, dandelion and if possible a little fresh grass if you can but introduce it in a just a very small but gradually increasing quantity for the first three days if he is not used to it and needs to ramp up the specialist digestive bacteria first; you do not want to deal with diarrhea on top of everything. Fresh grass is the same fibre as hay but it does often go down a bit better when you are dealing with partial loss of appetite. Start with some feed, then offer grass and fresh veg and finish the session with more feed.

All the best.

Please contact your vet tomorrow re. splitting the dosage. Since none of us is a vet and we can only go by our own experiences, we are not partial to our specific case and the many carefully balanced deliberations that have gone into the dosage.

 

[andisafc]

Hi

If he is eating cucumber, he has not totally lost his appetite and he has not lost his need to drink yet; the need to drink is stronger than the need to eat.
Any veg he eats is great and 14 ml is a good session - again, it shows that he hasn't lost his appetite completely. Try to get as much as feed into him as you can - the more you get into him in one session the less often you have to feed. Your aim is to minimise any major weight loss at this stage and help him to fight the bug with his own body reserves as much as possible. You will see when you weigh him again by tomorrow morning whether what you are doing is working, whether you need to dial up or can dial down your support. But you are on the ball straight away, and that is the important thing that is going to make a bit difference since you do not have to play catch up in the first place.

The feeding supprt is there to replace the hay he is not eating, which makes over three quarters of what a piggy is eating in a day and which is what keeps the gut running and stable.
Also try some herbs, lettuce, dandelion and if possible a little fresh grass if you can but introduce it in a just a very small but gradually increasing quantity for the first three days if he is not used to it and needs to ramp up the specialist digestive bacteria first; you do not want to deal with diarrhea on top of everything. Fresh grass is the same fibre as hay but it does often go down a bit better when you are dealing with partial loss of appetite. Start with some feed, then offer grass and fresh veg and finish the session with more feed.

All the best.

Please contact your vet tomorrow re. splitting the dosage. Since none of us is a vet and we can only go by our own experiences, we are not partial to our specific case and the many carefully balanced deliberations that have gone into the dosage.

Thanks, he only managed a couple of slices but I thought it was better than nothing?

It took some doing to get that 14ml into him, had to fight him with most of it, at 1st he was eating it off me & out of the bowl but that didn’t last long. He just a just lying around now looking so sad. You don’t think he’s in pain? I have metacam here but I’m reluctant to give him it as I’d had a syringe from his ill cage mate (who we had pts) in the bottle? Assuming it will now be contaminated?

He won’t have his favourite - parsley which worried me more than anything as he’d do anything for parsley usually! But I will do him a little selection & see what I can tempt him with?

There is no chance he could have bloat from 1 dose of the antibiotic is there? I know I’m going to that bad place in my head again!

Thanks, I will call them tomorrow & see what they say, I think the head vet will agree as she has split dosage for his cage mate in the past when we were going through everything.

Thank you so much for your kind words & reassurance!

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks, he only managed a couple of slices but I thought it was better than nothing?

It took some doing to get that 14ml into him, had to fight him with most of it, at 1st he was eating it off me & out of the bowl but that didn’t last long. He just a just lying around now looking so sad. You don’t think he’s in pain? I have metacam here but I’m reluctant to give him it as I’d had a syringe from his ill cage mate (who we had pts) in the bottle? Assuming it will now be contaminated?

He won’t have his favourite - parsley which worried me more than anything as he’d do anything for parsley usually! But I will do him a little selection & see what I can tempt him with?

There is no chance he could have bloat from 1 dose of the antibiotic is there? I know I’m going to that bad place in my head again!

Thanks, I will call them tomorrow & see what they say, I think the head vet will agree as she has split dosage for his cage mate in the past when we were going through everything.

Thank you so much for your kind words & reassurance!

He is not in pain but feeling miserable as sorry for yourself as you would do with a tummy on strike.

Bloat is not a side effect of an antibiotic tummy upset since that is the overgrowth of the wrong kind of bacteria (dysbiosis) whereas an antibiotic wipes out some or even most of the microbiome. So don't worry about that; the hy based recovery formula is there to ensure that what remains of the gut microbiome does not derail and that the one really important food group on which the digestive system is laid out for keeps going.

 

[andisafc]

He is not in pain but feeling miserable as sorry for yourself as you would do with a tummy on strike.

Bloat is not a side effect of an antibiotic tummy upset since that is the overgrowth of the wrong kind of bacteria (dysbiosis) whereas an antibiotic wipes out some or even most of the microbiome. So don't worry about that; the hy based recovery formula is there to ensure that what remains of the gut microbiome does not derail and that the one really important food group on which the digestive system is laid out for keeps going.

Thanks so much, you have no idea how much that has helped. He has eaten a few blades of hay, won’t eat the veggies or dandelion though does pick them up as if he wants to?

Will see how today goes then?

You lot are amazing x

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks so much, you have no idea how much that has helped. He has eaten a few blades of hay, won’t eat the veggies or dandelion though does pick them up as if he wants to?

Will see how today goes then?

You lot are amazing x

He's lost his appetite like you are playing with food that has lost its appeal when you are seriously ill or you are having a serious tummy upset. It will return again.

See how today goes and contact your vet clinic first thing tomorrow morning after you have weighed him.

All the best.

 

[andisafc]

He's lost his appetite like you are playing with food that has lost its appeal when you are seriously ill or you are having a serious tummy upset. It will return again.

See how today goes and contact your vet clinic first thing tomorrow morning after you have weighed him.

All the best.

Thank you so much, we’ve just had about 12ml go in there, was a constant fight but he’s done it & ate 2 dandelion leaves poor baby!

I honestly can’t thank you enough

 

[andisafc]

Thank you so much, we’ve just had about 12ml go in there, was a constant fight but he’s done it & ate 2 dandelion leaves poor baby!

I honestly can’t thank you enough

@Wiebke They have recommended a half dose tonight & she is going to speak to the head cavvy vet tomorrow & let me know. I managed to get 66ml in him yesterday & his weight went up a little (was scared it was down to holding his poop) but he has pooped a few times today & they were small for him but still over a cm.

 

[Wiebke]

@Wiebke They have recommended a half dose tonight & she is going to speak to the head cavvy vet tomorrow & let me know. I managed to get 66ml in him yesterday & his weight went up a little (was scared it was down to holding his poop) but he has pooped a few times today & they were small for him but still over a cm.

Hi

The poos reflect what was gone in over the past 1-2 days but the scales tell you what is going on now. He struggles a little but not massively on Saturday but you have got plenty into him yesterday and that is going to show up in the poos tomorrow.

Hang on in there; you are doing well and there is still plenty of space between your back and the wall. Just keep on feeding to keep the weight as stable as possible.

 

[andisafc]

Hi

The poos reflect what was gone in over the past 1-2 days but the scales tell you what is going on now. He struggles a little but not massively on Saturday but you have got plenty into him yesterday and that is going to show up in the poos tomorrow.

Hang on in thera; you are doing well and there is still plenty of space between your back and the wall. Just keep on feeding to keep the weight as stable as possible.

Thanks, just hoping it is coz of the medicine & not something else? Guess time will tell?

I’m hoping to get 70 in him today!

Is a 30g fluctuation in a day (as perH eating normally) possible during syringe feeding?

Thanks for your help

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks, just hoping it is coz of the medicine & not something else? Guess time will tell?

I’m hoping to get 70 in him today!

Is a 30g fluctuation in a day (as perH eating normally) possible during syringe feeding?

Thanks for your help

Yes, the weight is never quite even but it is generally lowest first thing in the morning so that gives you the best and most stable bottom line. Just concentrate on keeping his weight stable at this stage; the rest will come back once the course is over. Hopefully the appetite will return again more on the split dosage and you have to feed less or not at all - basically just topping him up at need.

 

[andisafc]

Yes, the weight is never quite even but it is generally lowest first thing in the morning so that gives you the best and most stable bottom line. Just concentrate on keeping his weight stable at this stage; the rest will come back once the course is over. Hopefully the appetite will return again more on the split dosage and you have to feed less or not at all - basically just topping him up at need.

Thanks, hoping they’ll reduce the length of course too! Certainly don’t want to do 14 days (plus the medication says it only keeps for 10 days). He’s looking so sorry for himself, poor bairn! x

 

[andisafc]

Me again! Does anyone know why Bramble might be doing this?

He stopped when I went near?

 

[andisafc]

@Wiebke have you ever seen this? He has done this a few times now this afternoon?

 

[Wiebke]

@Wiebke have you ever seen this? He has done this a few times now this afternoon?

Hi

I would ask your vet if you see it again. It could be neurological, breathing or heart related but I cannot really tell you what is going on.

 

[andisafc]

Hi

I would ask your vet if you see it again. It could be neurological, breathing or heart related but I cannot really tell you what is going on.

This is an absolute nightmare! They have pushed me in tomorrow morning he was fine other than the wet nostril before taking this medicine! The nurse has suggested not doing the dose tonight?

 

[Wiebke]

This is an absolute nightmare! They have pushed me in tomorrow morning he was fine other than the wet nostril before taking this medicine! The nurse has suggested not doing the dose tonight?

Hi

I am not a medications specialist so I cannot tell you whether it could be an antibiotic related side effect/bad reaction or not but please always follow the advice of people trained to do so.

 

[andisafc]

Hi

I am not a medications specialist so I cannot tell you whether it could be an antibiotic related side effect/bad reaction or not but please always follow the advice of people trained to do so.

Hi @Wiebke thanks, yes I am completely being led by them. Saw the head cavy vet & my usual one & they recommended coming off the antibiotics too. We have been given metoclopramide to stimulate the gut. He was given a full going over & heart & breathing seem ok! Hopefully it’ll do the trick?
Do you have any experience of how long it takes them to start eating properly again?

 

[Wiebke]

Hi @Wiebke thanks, yes I am completely being led by them. Saw the head cavy vet & my usual one & they recommended coming off the antibiotics too. We have been given metoclopramide to stimulate the gut. He was given a full going over & heart & breathing seem ok! Hopefully it’ll do the trick?
Do you have any experience of how long it takes them to start eating properly again?

It takes about 2 days for any food to pass through the gut twice and 5 days for the antibiotic to wear off fully so the recovery won't be instant, especially not if a piggy has had such a strong negative reaction. There is not fixed timetable. Hopefully he will gradually recover it over the coming days. Be generous with the probiotic you mix into his feed so he gets it regularly.

 

[andisafc]

It takes about 2 days for any food to pass through the gut twice and 5 days for the antibiotic to wear off fully so the recovery won't be instant, especially not if a piggy has had such a strong negative reaction. There is not fixed timetable. Hopefully he will gradually recover it over the coming days. Be generous with the probiotic you mix into his feed so he gets it regularly.

Thanks very much. I have been mixing either Pro-C or fibreplex into his feed, will add a bit more. He is being such a good boy and I can get 12-15ml into him in a sitting and doing 6 feeds. Think the worst feeling is when he doesn't want his veggies as he was usually such a guts miss his squeaks and climbing the bars!

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks very much. I have been mixing either Pro-C or fibreplex into his feed, will add a bit more. He is being such a good boy and I can get 12-15ml into him in a sitting and doing 6 feeds. Think the worst feeling is when he doesn't want his veggies as he was usually such a guts miss his squeaks and climbing the bars!

He'll get there again; just be patient. Keep reminding yourself that you are doing all of this to give him the best possible chance at a happy and healthy life.

 

[andisafc]

He'll get there again; just be patient. Keep reminding yourself that you are doing all of this to give him the best possible chance at a happy and healthy life.

Thank you for your support. Means a lot when I’m struggling. His poops aren’t great today, I understand that it’s 1-2 days to pass through, should I just ignore as his weight has been stable +/- 10g for 5 days?