Chester And Bojangles - I Think I Finally Figured It Out!

PiggyProdigy

PiggyProdigy

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Ok, so a lot of you have probably heard my case with my two new males before. I'm going to give a little backstory and what I think is happening...

I have had a trial separation going on for about 3 full days with them after a scuffle the morning after I got them. They are in a 2 by 4 or 4 and a half foot cage, and they didn't fight in the same cage with almost the same setup I have in the last house they were in. They are about 14 or 15 months old so they could still be in a "hormonal phase" or protection from after I brought them to my house. They are showing no signs of "perking up" or wanting to split. They are constantly sniffing each other's faces through my split cage bars and looking at the other when I pick one up. They did that "calling out" noise when each of them did floor time yesterday. They seem lonely and sad and I feel awful for them but I can't risk them fighting. I tried to do a bonding / dominence excersize in my bathtub a full day after they fought, and no dominence signs were shown, they tried to scuffle again. (This leads me to believe that they already have a dominence and bonding order established)

My take on this is they were very scared and nervous about a new place, and new people, and new smells, and they just need time to adjust / are already a bonded pair... I think once I build them a larger cage with more hideys and security areas, and they both have their own large areas to eat hay, pellets, and veggies / drink water to themselves they will be just fine. They were bonded before they even hit a pet store so that shouldn't be an issue. I did consider the possibility their hierchy was disrupted once taken out, but that was eliminated by the fact that they didn't fight in the last house they were in which they were in for for several months.

Any feedback would help. I'm trying to figure this out before their week trial ends... want them to be friends.
 
Are they actually fighting? You say scuffle. Chasing, nipping and squealing (as if in pain) from the submissive pig is normal.

I think the problem you will have for now is that a 2ft square cage each is really not a good size for each of them and even a 4ft cage for both sharing isn't huge and with males, the bigger the better.
 
By fighting I mean making that Phooph noise lunging chattering VERY loudly circling each other and I stop them every time right before they cling on to eachother
 
I tend to agree with @Eileen's Mum that the space is not very pig for 2 boars.
Also before trying to re-bond I would remove the plastic igloos, and only have cardboard boxes with the ends cut off or stick tunnels in the cage.
Covering half of the cage with an old towel or blanket would also offer them a 'safe' area and make them feel less exposed.

Have you read this thread?
Illustrated Bonding / Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics
 
Should I let this behavior play out and see if they fight after that? Also, how do I know when they're done establishing a hierchy and won't "fight" anymore?
 
I think you need to be certain that they are really going to fight, and are not just 'discussing' things piggy style.
That is why it is so important to read the threads on here, look at the pictures and videos, and inform yourself ahead of time.
Bonding can look pretty awful in my very (very) limited experience, but I got through it because I had read all the thread and watched you tube videos so I sort of knew what to expect.
Plus I sat on the end of the sofa wearing oven gloves and checking the bonding thread on here every 30 seconds - it was a looooong afternoon.

And as for knowing that they will never fight again - I am sorry to say that I personally don't believe that is ever possible.
I had a group of four for a year when it suddenly broke down completely.
I tried to rebond them several times over the period of a month, but finally accepted it wasn't working.
I begged, I pleaded, I bribed, I showed them pictures of a 9 x 2 C&C*, but for some reason they decided they were done.
So you bond, you give them as much space as physically possible, and then sell some furniture so you can give them even more space** and you hope for the best.

*This part may not be totally true.
**This part is totally true.
 
Yes, @Swissgreys I have read it multiple times. I'm starting a many day project today to create a new large expansive cage for them. Once it is complete, I'm going to put them in opposite ends and see if they do any of that stuff. If not, they're clearly fine! If they do, I'll have my dad there to video while I monitor and send it to you guys to see if it really is fighting or they just need to work out dominence. If they do, what better time to do it then when they get a brand new habitat! Anyways, I need some measurements on what is boar-safe on a custom cage. I'm thinking just like a 2.5 x 6 base with a ramp that goes to a 2.5 x 2.5 or a 2 x 2 loft. Should that be big enough?
 
So my questions are

1. Minimum size for 2 boars
2. How long does bonding last?
3.the rest I can find in threads
 
Minimum I would suggest is 140cms length, obviously the larger the better
Bonding can last either an hour to many hours...it really depends on the pigs.

Good luck
 
Good luck! Just a note that even when they're bonded again you will still see the dominance behaviours like humping, rumbling and occasional teeth chatter etc.

As I mentioned on another thread of yours I'm pretty sure it was just dominance displays and hierarchy sorting but it is quite scary to watch. I know I hate bonding lol!

In my experience it can take anything from a few hours to 2 weeks to fully settle down but I relax after a day. Once they've initially accepted each other they're just sorting out the house rules. It'll be a bit tough initially for you as you've separated quite a few times but I'd just let them do their thing :)

Unless they're drawing blood from each other or in a rolling ball of furry fury which isn't likely, I wouldn't separate. It stresses them out too much to separate.

Hope it goes well :)
 
Thanks everyone. I think I'll get this figured out pretty soon. When the week trial ends I'll try bonding them and I'll know what's actually fighting by then based on other piggy sources...
for now, please send lots of good vibes for my two piggies.. they seem really happy today and one even whistled
 
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