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Bumblefoot and poor mobility

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Pamb01

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Hi

Looking for some advice if possible. I've had guinea pigs on and off for over 20 years but never encountered cases of bumblefoot thankfully. Until now, my 7 ¼ year old piggy Diego has such a horrible issue with it.

Background of her is I "rescued" her and her sister from a friend who bought them for her kids and had never given them hay in their lives. They lived on puppy pads on a hard plastic base cage, and were going to be PTS as she couldn't look after them. Diego had major teeth issues, and after having 2 ops and an abscess treatment at our local vets I started taking her to Northampton to the Cat and Rabbit clinic. 150 mile round trip every 2 weeks and teeth shaving but she coped, and after a year seemed ok. August Diego developed a cyst under her mammary gland, it doubled in size overnight and she couldn't walk. Urgent surgery at our local vet and she lost a lot of movement in her right hind leg.

The loss of movement means for most of the time she drags her foot, so I believe this is what set up the bumblefoot in that foot, it was horrific. The scab dropped off and I had never seen so much blood. I started cleaning it out with hibiscrub and could see no infection. I used manuka honey to pack the wound and it was getting better. When I could get her into the vets they had a look, said there was no infection and only removed some of the dead skin. They gave her loxicom (she loves this) but no need for antibiotics and told me to continue as I was. It was still not getting any better so after much research on here I decided to start bandaging and vet wrapping. I introduced using bepanthen and it is amazing. Again it has shrunk and is no longer squidgy. However, she has obviously been less mobile and keeping her weight off that foot, and so her opposite front foot also got bumblefoot. Typical hey! Same treatment started and curved syringe flushes also introduced. Again it is so much better. Completely dry and almost normal sized paw pads again, yay!

The question I have is the front pad tonight has a solid scab, should I be removing this or leaving it to allow the skin underneath to heal? She is an OAPiggie so I don't want to stress her too much.

Thanks for any advice!
 
I'm very sorry that you have to fight bumble foot. It's a horrible condition that can be very resistent to treatment.
My late Billie had a bad and persistant case of bumble foot. You can find our story here: Billie's paw

My vets prescribed Baytril for life because there is always the change that there is an infection that moves to the bone. Apart from that, I treated the paw similar to you.
Billie has had heavy bleeding episodes that were only managable with a bandage.
In my experience it's better not to remove a scab because this can trigger massive bleeding.
 
Thank you. That is what I thought about the bleeding (although I'll take a few spots of blood over pus any day!). I was working on the premise that humans are advised to wait for the scab to drop off naturally so it can't be too dissimilar for piggies.

I read Billie's story, it was so inspiring to read how the treatment you gave is similar to what I am doing. And also hard when it got worse after getting so much better, so I am prepared for that to happen. Sending big thank you hugs for all the advice I gleaned from your posts x
 
Thinking of you and Diego. I adopted a guinea, Amelie, with terrible bumblefoot. Had to be bandaged etc too, basically similar to what you're doing. You seem to have made better strides with Diego though. Good on you for that, it needs persistant care which I didn't always manage.

I'm interested to read about the cyst under Diego's mammary gland because a different oldie guinea of mine, Suzie, had a cyst beside her mammary gland tumour. I don't know if Diego has a tumour there? Suzie did anyway and kept going for about 2.5 years anyway with the tumour somehow emptying via the cyst. I was at the vet's an awful lot with her but it was worth it for her (and me). She was such a little fighter.
 
No evidence of a tumour, although one vet was adamant it was a tumour and advised her to be PTS, however she was fighting so I took my lead from her and opted for the op. A different vet did the op and found it was a cyst, removed the sac and some surrounding tissue that had gone a bit manky. They were concerned as she refused to eat when she came round, and wouldn't take the rescue food they had. She is fussy and will only eat critical care at an exact temp so when she came home I gave my OH the instructions for it as I was at a hospital appointment. He was less than forceful with her and was convinced she was going to die. I got home and refused to let her not eat, shovelled it in and the next day it was like nothing had happened. She is resilient like that. They put her on baytril for that and it made her pee pink, amongst other side effects she didn't like so I will avoid for as long as possible- she hates the probiotics I give her when she is on it too.
X
 
In addition to all the stuff you're already doing (which seems great, keep it up!), make sure that the puppy pads are always completely dry. Put extra pads on top in areas where the piggies sleep and pee, and exchange them daily if necessary. We have dealt with bumblefoot on a limping pig, and besides the uneven walking, moving less and lying around in slightly moist spots was definitely part of the issue. Once it's all healed well enough that open wounds are no longer an issue, you might want to consider switching to more absorbent bedding, such as hemp with a wood or straw pellet underlayer. Puppy liners are pretty absorbent, but when the piggies pee on them, the wet spot is just a bit larger and dries a little bit more slowly than with some other types of bedding. This is no issue at all for most piggies but it can make a difference for a piggy that is less mobile and pees where it sleeps just a bit more often. In our case, only one of 15 piggies we've had on liners has ever struggled with bumblefoot. After we made the switch to hemp lining, the recurring bumblefoot issues in our limping piggie disappeared almost completely.
 
Having a rant, and I know you guys will understand. Was due to go to Glasgow for Xmas to spend the week with my OHs family. With Diego needing all the attention ATM the plan was to take her with us via a travel cage (she travels really, really well), regular breaks and lots of fluids filled veggies to get her through the journey. The only warm place in the house for her is in the room we sleep in, and we had a plan. OH spoke to his mum tonight to be told that no the plan will not be allowed to work for positioning in case the TV gets damaged though moving it, Diego will have to go in the dining room. She is too old to have such extremes of temp, if we pack her normal cage with hay she'll eat that and not her food this missing out on vital nutrients she needs right now, and it is just not fair on a piggies that is elderly, ill and put of sorts from the journey. I am so angry that a TV has been put before the life of Diego. I get the concern for the TV but what about for Diego.

Looks like Christmas with my piggie whilst my OH and the dog go to Glasgow. I remember now why I hate this time of year, it is too stressful and the expectation to spend it with family regardless of other issues is just not right.

Sorry, rant over. Piggo comes first, always xx
 
Urmel said:
In addition to all the stuff you're already doing (which seems great, keep it up!), make sure that the puppy pads are always completely dry. Put extra pads on top in areas where the piggies sleep and pee, and exchange them daily if necessary. We have dealt with bumblefoot on a limping pig, and besides the uneven walking, moving less and lying around in slightly moist spots was definitely part of the issue. Once it's all healed well enough that open wounds are no longer an issue, you might want to consider switching to more absorbent bedding, such as hemp with a wood or straw pellet underlayer. Puppy liners are pretty absorbent, but when the piggies pee on them, the wet spot is just a bit larger and dries a little bit more slowly than with some other types of bedding. This is no issue at all for most piggies but it can make a difference for a piggy that is less mobile and pees where it sleeps just a bit more often. In our case, only one of 15 piggies we've had on liners has ever struggled with bumblefoot. After we made the switch to hemp lining, the recurring bumblefoot issues in our limping piggie disappeared almost completely.
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Ah that is great, thanks lovely! I was thinking about fleece but this is a great alternative! X
 
Wanted to update you all. So we went to Glasgow, with plenty of breaks for Diego and lots of baby cucumbers which she loves so she was getting moisture. She travelled so well. I had said any sign she was getting stressed and we would stop, but she did better than I did.

Whilst we were there we swapped her onto fleece as the day before we travelled she has another foot go down with bumblefoot. 3 out of four paws are affected, but seeing as she is 7 ¼ and always had a litany of health problems I am not surprised. Continued the bandaging on the open wounds, left those fully scabbed over to "air" so to speak, and he back paw is almost completely healed! A small cut like mark is all you can see. I am continuing to rub bepanthen in to the paws once healed over as I believe this helps, but if I can even cure 1 foot then I will be a very happy piggy care giver. Thanks for all your advice!

Finally, not sure where this would go, but being based on the Swindon /Oxford border our "exotic" vets are very limited. Drove main hospital and Ed however has been fantastic. Kira in the Marlborough branch was also amazing when we lived there. Not are if this can be placed anywhere for recommendations. Only these 2 vets though, had some bad experiences with other vets in the practice.
 
I had an elderly pig develop bumblefoot. She wasn't as mobile as she had been and had some circulatory problems. The best thing I found was keeping things REALLY dry and using Betadine on her foot twice a day. Our vet recommended it after silver nitrate failed to do anything and I was amazed how much it improved things.

I would not peel off any scabs, bumblefoot can bleed like crazy, removing the scab will leave the area open for infection, and it's just going to form a new scab when it clots.
 
I tried betadine, but for some reason it seemed to make her squeal so it was clearly uncomfortable for her. I definitely don't peel any scabs off, when there is any blood from her it makes me go so hit and makes my heart race ha ha. Gently cleansing and drying the feet seems to help. One scab has started to drop off naturally so I just trimmed it to stop it catching no peeling allowed at all in my house ha ha. That was the one I wasn't sure if I should be removing but was glad when the advice said not to, I don't even allow my partner to pick his scabs as *ewwww*

I am being super careful about keeping her feet dry, and making sure to keep her off her feet until the bepanthen has soaked in. We had to go to the vet today as my dog can't be left out and has got an ear infection (labradors and water hey!) and the vet was asking about Diego. Showed him the pictures and he was super impressed, and asked if he can ask for advice in future if needed, so I take it that is a good sign. Scary but always happy to share to any piggie owners what has worked for me and so many others on here, with the caveat I am not an expert!
 
Ah well done you it’s the slow regular application that makes all the difference
Hope your lab is ok ❤️and that lovely Diego keeps healing ❤️
 
I'm so happy that Diego is getting better! It sounds really tough to deal with, but you're doing amazing!

Some more thoughts for prevention - since the limp is clearly the root cause, you could try to experiment with ways to ease it. Even if the leg won't improve, you can help the tight muscles and back pain that a limp often causes. Both may worsen the limp and further restrict movement. In our limping bumblefoot problem pig, the cause was probably some injury that hadn't healed properly, so what worked for him may not work for Diego, but here's what we did:

We got an infrared lamp and put him under there for 10-15 minutes a day to relax the muscles. You can get infrared lamps for chickens in big pet stores and farm supply stores, they're pretty cheap. You obviously have to be careful with adjusting the distance so it doesn't get too hot, and watch the piggie carefully. We then basically did some very gentle physiotherapy. We very gently massaged his back along the long muscle going down both sides of the spine. There is usually a tight spot in the mid-back just behind the ribs on the opposite side of the bad leg, and sometimes another spot around the neck on the same side of the leg (this is really similar to humans actually, it's pretty fascinating). Your piggie might show this by showing signs of discomfort when you gently press these spots with an intensity that won't evoke a reaction in other places. When you find such a spot, you start by massaging it even gentler so you don't cause more discomfort, going in circles and side to side, very slowly increasing the pressure until the tense spot softens a little. We also very gently mobilised both legs, moving them only in ways that mimic natural movement.

I know this is very elaborate and definitely in crazy pig-parent territory, but it sounds like you are willing to really go above and beyond. Obligatory disclaimer that all this was improvised based on our knowledge of guinea pig anatomy and our pig's reaction. Our vet supported the idea but wasn't able to advise much since this is pretty experimental. It would not have been my first choice to DIY this, but physiotherapy for guinea pigs isn't really a thing yet (at least not where we live).
 
Urmel said:
I'm so happy that Diego is getting better! It sounds really tough to deal with, but you're doing amazing!

Some more thoughts for prevention - since the limp is clearly the root cause, you could try to experiment with ways to ease it. Even if the leg won't improve, you can help the tight muscles and back pain that a limp often causes. Both may worsen the limp and further restrict movement. In our limping bumblefoot problem pig, the cause was probably some injury that hadn't healed properly, so what worked for him may not work for Diego, but here's what we did:

We got an infrared lamp and put him under there for 10-15 minutes a day to relax the muscles. You can get infrared lamps for chickens in big pet stores and farm supply stores, they're pretty cheap. You obviously have to be careful with adjusting the distance so it doesn't get too hot, and watch the piggie carefully. We then basically did some very gentle physiotherapy. We very gently massaged his back along the long muscle going down both sides of the spine. There is usually a tight spot in the mid-back just behind the ribs on the opposite side of the bad leg, and sometimes another spot around the neck on the same side of the leg (this is really similar to humans actually, it's pretty fascinating). Your piggie might show this by showing signs of discomfort when you gently press these spots with an intensity that won't evoke a reaction in other places. When you find such a spot, you start by massaging it even gentler so you don't cause more discomfort, going in circles and side to side, very slowly increasing the pressure until the tense spot softens a little. We also very gently mobilised both legs, moving them only in ways that mimic natural movement.

I know this is very elaborate and definitely in crazy pig-parent territory, but it sounds like you are willing to really go above and beyond. Obligatory disclaimer that all this was improvised based on our knowledge of guinea pig anatomy and our pig's reaction. Our vet supported the idea but wasn't able to advise much since this is pretty experimental. It would not have been my first choice to DIY this, but physiotherapy for guinea pigs isn't really a thing yet (at least not where we live).
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Not crazy at all! I have tried the massage but as with every animal in my life it is never quite so simple. She is super skinny, has struggled to be over 800g her whole life and with older age has the feeling of a very boney girl, so massage tends to irritate her skin due to the bones. I tend to use warm water hydrotherapy as she loves her baths, but currently I am avoiding this as I don't want her paws to get worse. Definitely using heat pads has helped a bit (under the fleece so she can't chew as she is one of those will chew anything piggies). Basically she is a diva, but I am definitely going to look at the heat lamp suggestion. As she gets older she will more than likely feel the cold a bit more, so if I can get the position right then I can get it on a timer for her.

Oh and just to be super difficult, and as with Billie above, her front paw has got significantly worse today. Vet video call seemed to suggest no baytril needed but am upping the cleaning on that paw to ensure I get more obs on it, and will revert back to wrapping it if needed. She gets parsley or apple after each foot inspection so she seems content, dare I say she seems to enjoy the rear paws being massaged with bepanthen, even purrs!

I tell you, this has been a steep learning curve but happy to learn as much as I can!
 
Pamb01 said:
Oh and just to be super difficult, and as with Billie above, her front paw has got significantly worse today. Vet video call seemed to suggest no baytril needed but am upping the cleaning on that paw to ensure I get more obs on it, and will revert back to wrapping it if needed. She gets parsley or apple after each foot inspection so she seems content, dare I say she seems to enjoy the rear paws being massaged with bepanthen, even purrs!
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Oof that sounds difficult! With some of them, you just wonder how one piggy can have so many issues all at once.. Good luck with the healing, I hope it gets better soon!
 
So the good news is Diego is almost back to her normal self...she is screeching for her vegetables like she is starving all the time (I know, such a terrible mumma for clearly never feeding her 🙄😂😂). Still a bit concerned about the one front paw but it is encouraging that I could see the pink healed flesh starting to make an appearance around the edges, so I think with more time and love that will be fine. Her only good paw is getting extra tlc, and to show how she loves her paw "massages" she crawled up my legs, pushed herself backwards and sat with her rear legs ready. She is a funny piggie
 

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Pamb01 said:
So the good news is Diego is almost back to her normal self...she is screeching for her vegetables like she is starving all the time (I know, such a terrible mumma for clearly never feeding her 🙄😂😂). Still a bit concerned about the one front paw but it is encouraging that I could see the pink healed flesh starting to make an appearance around the edges, so I think with more time and love that will be fine. Her only good paw is getting extra tlc, and to show how she loves her paw "massages" she crawled up my legs, pushed herself backwards and sat with her rear legs ready. She is a funny piggie
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Oh what a little sweetie ♥️
Your care and devotion have got her here ….well done you 🥰
 
And true to form Diego's paws are the gift that keep on giving. Her front left paw is just refusing to get better, so I am back to the vets with her this week. It seems like there is no infection but it just won't heal. Her right front paw was healing nicely but got a lump, almost like a cyst, on the paw pad and was being stubborn and refusing to allow access to drain or clean. Vet advised sterile needle and drain it. Nearly fainted doing it and only went in very shallow as I don't want to cause other damage, but thankfully it seems a lot better now and a heck of a lot less painful for her. This really is a long slog.

Thankfully her rear paw is almost healed. It will never be back to normal due to the swelling but there is no obvious infection and no pain, so I will take that. Joy of joys for the foreseeable months xx
 
Pamb01 said:
And true to form Diego's paws are the gift that keep on giving. Her front left paw is just refusing to get better, so I am back to the vets with her this week. It seems like there is no infection but it just won't heal. Her right front paw was healing nicely but got a lump, almost like a cyst, on the paw pad and was being stubborn and refusing to allow access to drain or clean. Vet advised sterile needle and drain it. Nearly fainted doing it and only went in very shallow as I don't want to cause other damage, but thankfully it seems a lot better now and a heck of a lot less painful for her. This really is a long slog.

Thankfully her rear paw is almost healed. It will never be back to normal due to the swelling but there is no obvious infection and no pain, so I will take that. Joy of joys for the foreseeable months xx
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Oh gosh you are going thru it with lovely Diego - your devotion is amazing and getting those paws to improve is great
It is a hard slog but hopefully those paws will keep improving …..🥰
 
Guys what am I doing wrong? Diego's beautifully pawfect paw that had no signs of any infection or irritation and has been checked every single day without fail is tonight showing signs of bumblefoot. It is red and slightly swollen. I'm gutted and have cried a lot.

I have her on vet fleece which I am changing regularly, am keeping her paws dry and am making sure to clean her paws daily just in case. I just cannot win on this!

Throw your suggestions to me, at this point I will literally try anything!
 
Oh no you have been working so hard …. It’s so demoralising isnt it - you’re doing the best you can and I don’t know why it’s reappeared again.
I have a skinny pig that came to live with me in November and he had red soles of his back feet and they are still like that. No cuts or scratches or sores. He won’t let me bathe his feet. But I’ve been tending to his feet since then.
I was advised to use Epsom salts in warm water for 5 minutes then rinse the feet , dry them and use F10 twice daily.
I’m sure that’s what you’ve been doing.
My Vet said she thinks Freddy may just have feet that are like that ……
I know @Betsy overcame severe bumblefoot with one of her piggies - I’m sure others will be along to offer advice
We’re all with you so keep hope 🥰
 
I'm so sorry you and Diego are having such a hard time with Bumblefoot. I was going to suggest vetbed but I see you are using it already. Vetbed is my go to once my oldies get less mobile it really seems to help keep them dry.
Keep doing what you are doing. I have my fingers crossed for Diego.
 
I'm very sorry. I'm sure you're already doing everything you can.
My late Billie's battle with bumblefoot was a rollercoaster ride that went downhill more often than it went up, no matter what I tried.
There is no miricale cure of bumblefoot and unfortunately it seems to be less treatable in some piggies than in others.
 
Just to update everyone, Diego was doing so well, loving the critical care and extra lap time, and her paws were slowly getting better. Wednesday she almost seemed to splutter whilst taking her critical care and by Friday had developed an audible click from her nose when she was breathing. She still seemed her normal self but we took her to the vets anyway due to her age. The vet was concerned she had no muscle mass at all, but could find no evidence of an upper RI which is what we thought it may be (experience has taught me that it usually is one). He gave precautionary antibiotics anyway, however by Saturday morning she had taken a turn for the worse. She was very unsteady on her feet, almost like she had suffered a stroke, but was still happy enough to be held, taking her meds and critical care well. We spoke to the vets and he said it can be a side effect of the antibiotics but if concerned to go it. She was exhausted and kept falling asleep in our laps. She perked up with some cucumber but was reluctant to eat it. I made the decision that Sunday we would take her in and give her the respite she was now telling us she wanted. We spent a good hour together Sunday morning just cuddling and fussing her, and she was super alert, didn't go to sleep once on us, but kept trying to run and hide, which is not Diego at all. I let her know if she wanted to give up on her terms she could, and then we put her in her cage, went to get dressed and when we got back downstairs she had passed. Her way, her time, her choice. It was very peaceful but devestating as well. I've cried more over her than I ever did after my Dad passed, and am going through those stages of grief in very quick succession. Guilt in case I didn't do enough, worry that the antibiotics caused the rapid decline etc. She is at peace now but there is an extremely large hole in my heart that will always remain. For a piggy with chronic health conditions from the age of 3 she outlasted every single one of her cage mates and is probably munching her way through the field of eternal veggies whilst squeaking away to all who will listen x
 
I'm so sorry you lost your special girl, your love for her shines through. 💔🌈
 
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