Broken/sprained leg

[AngryPenguin]

Hi thank you for your advice. The label does say 0.5 on the bottle but in my instructions is says differently. Have you given your guinea pig 0.5 twice a day for example and did you find this to be effective for pain relief? Many thanks

It breaks my heart to hear of your situation, but this is my last post on here because for reasons unbeknownst to me, this forum is very strict with members giving out dosage suggestions, even when the internet is filled with (ok, filled is a strong word as there are about ~10) clinic studies discussing efficacy of meloxicam on guinea pigs.

I'm going to be beyond even mind blown if the mods take this down, but this is from DVM360. - literally a source of truth for vets.

Maybe take this to your vet? Pharmacotherapeutics in small mammals (Proceedings)

==
"Meloxicam is probably the most commonly used NSAID used in exotic small mammals, and is available in both oral and injectable forms. Its primary action is the inhibition of cyclooxygenase-2, which mediates inflammation. Meloxicam at 1 mg/kg SC dose reduced acute post-laparotomy pain behaviors in rats, but a 0.5 mg/kg SC dose was not effective. In another study, the pharmacokinetics of single or repeated PO doses (daily for 5 days) of either 0.3 or 1.5 mg/kg meloxicam in female rabbits showed that after single oral dosing of either dose, maximal plasma concentrations were achieved at 6-8 hr and were nearly undetectable by 24 hr. No drug plasma accumulation was identified at either dose after 5 days, and meloxicam was rapidly eliminated after drug discontinuation. Meloxicam administered 0.5 mg/kg PO produced significant analgesia in visceral pain tests in guinea pigs. These studies suggest that some rodents and rabbits may need higher meloxicam doses, but further research is necessary to determine appropriate meloxicam analgesic doses and dosing frequency in small mammal patients."

I tried doing the maths for you but the post was edited. Sadly, you'll have to do your own maths or have your vets do your maths for you. Dosage information has since been revised in newer literature but again, I'm not allowed to share....

Here is one such link you can share with your vet, I guess?

Managing pain in zoological companion animals

"From there, doses tend to be higher; chinchillas and guinea pigs are administered 0.5-0.75 mg/kg every 12 hours, rabbits 1 mg/kg every 24 hours, and rats and mice 1 mg/kg every 12 hours (Fredholm et al. 2013; Delk et al. 2014)."

You/your vet need to take into account strength (above), cat meloxicam strength, and convert mg/kg into mL. As I was pulled aside, I am not, sadly, allowed to calculate that for you guys but your vet can easily do that.

Best of luck to your piggies!

 

[VickiA]

@AngryPenguin yes - we are strict and will continue to be so. We are U.K. based and have to follow U.K. legislation. To stay on the right side of the law we cannot give or endorse the giving of advice on prescribing. That is limited to a qualified vet who has examined the animal in question. We have all, at times, felt frustrated, particularly when owners are dealing with vets who are unaware of current research and prescribing guidelines. All we can do is to be supportive but we cannot overstep the boundaries. We are one of the last remaining guinea pig welfare forums on the internet and we’d like to be here longer to continue to support guinea pigs and their owners. That means not falling foul of the legislation.
If our rules and moderating activities are too prescriptive for you, then perhaps this is not the forum for you.

 

[AngryPenguin]

@AngryPenguin yes - we are strict and will continue to be so. We are U.K. based and have to follow U.K. legislation. To stay on the right side of the law we cannot give or endorse the giving of advice on prescribing. That is limited to a qualified vet who has examined the animal in question. We have all, at times, felt frustrated, particularly when owners are dealing with vets who are unaware of current research and prescribing guidelines. All we can do is to be supportive but we cannot overstep the boundaries. We are one of the last remaining guinea pig welfare forums on the internet and we’d like to be here longer to continue to support guinea pigs and their owners. That means not falling foul of the legislation.
If our rules and moderating activities are too prescriptive for you, then perhaps this is not the forum for you.

Indeed it isn't. However, it is unreasonable to censor the internet and studies can be read and found by owners. The same is said when calculating maths and dosage.

This forum should not censor either as it is publicly searchable information. The purpose of a forum should be to leverage each others' strengths and experience in order to provide for a better outcome for what truly matters which is our piggies.

Talking about dosages in studies or calculating maths, in any event is not a criminal violation so I have no idea why mods here are concerned.

Oh well. Good luck all.

 

[BossHogg]

Succinctly put by my staff, I understand that you only want to help, the last thing I need is a large legal bill if something goes wrong and this forum is quoted as giving that information. Which is why we leave everything to our fine veterinarians to deal with.

 

[Tara95]

Indeed it isn't. However, it is unreasonable to censor the internet and studies can be read and found by owners. The same is said when calculating maths and dosage.

This forum should not censor either as it is publicly searchable information. The purpose of a forum should be to leverage each others' strengths and experience in order to provide for a better outcome for what truly matters which is our piggies.

Talking about dosages in studies or calculating maths, in any event is not a criminal violation so I have no idea why mods here are concerned.

Oh well. Good luck all.

Hi thank you for trying to help. I'm sorry if I caused some forum drama guys, I was just asking how much you personally used considering I've told you all how much I am using and how often I wasn't going to change my amount I was just curious as I have seen numerous posts that have dosage information for various pig issues. But thank you all for advice

 

[poggle]

It's not about censorship; it's about abiding by the terms and conditions you agreed to when you joined this forum.

These rules were put in place to protect this forum and our piggies from unscrupulous users who might use this platform to spread unsafe advice and put pets at risk. For them to work effectively they have to apply to all members - even the actually qualified ones.

You'll note that most advice on dosage here is along the lines of "my pig was on x y times a day and he was fine" or "that sounds quite high, I'd talk to your vet", steering well clear of anything that can end in "TGPF told me to give my pig z dose and now he's dead". Besides, regardless of any legal or liability considerations, taking anything other than high-level advice on prescription medication dosage from Internet randos feels like a bad move tbf.

Sorry @Tara95 , I hope your little one is on the mend soon. We had a "worst case scenario" leg amputation go well as well, many years ago, although fingers crossed it's not needed!

 

[Tara95]

It's not about censorship; it's about abiding by the terms and conditions you agreed to when you joined this forum.

These rules were put in place to protect this forum and our piggies from unscrupulous users who might use this platform to spread unsafe advice and put pets at risk. For them to work effectively they have to apply to all members - even the actually qualified ones.

You'll note that most advice on dosage here is along the lines of "my pig was on x y times a day and he was fine" or "that sounds quite high, I'd talk to your vet", steering well clear of anything that can end in "well TGPF told me to give my pig z dose and now he's dead". Besides, regardless of any legal or liability considerations, taking anything other than high-level advice on prescription medication dosage from Internet randos feels like a bad move tbf.

Sorry @Tara95 , I hope your little one is on the mend soon. We had a "worst case scenario" leg amputation go well as well, many years ago, although fingers crossed it's not needed!

Thank you all, I must admit when I first heard leg amputation it was a massive shock and not something I wanted for her and not even something I can imagine but today it doesn't see quite as shocking and I'm slowly coming to terms with that option. Today she seems better in herself I thibk it's the pain meds, she's eating well and is alert but isn't really that mobile but I need to give her time to recover before I proceed to the next option

 

[Swissgreys]

Indeed it isn't. However, it is unreasonable to censor the internet and studies can be read and found by owners. The same is said when calculating maths and dosage.

This forum should not censor either as it is publicly searchable information. The purpose of a forum should be to leverage each others' strengths and experience in order to provide for a better outcome for what truly matters which is our piggies.

Talking about dosages in studies or calculating maths, in any event is not a criminal violation so I have no idea why mods here are concerned.

Oh well. Good luck all.

I think you might be missing the point of the Forum.
We are here predominantly to help, advise, guide and support guinea pig owners on all areas of guinea pig care.
Because we are publicly searchable we pride ourselves on a high level of comprehensive information aimed at all levels of experience.

We are not here to offer specific medical advice - there are plenty of sites out there advocating home treatments, and encouraging owners not to seek veterinary help when their piggies clearly need it. We prefer to guide and support by sharing personal experiences. We do not advocate overriding information given by qualified vets who have seen an animal in person.

You yourself offered incorrect information in another thread, stating that the medication given to a piggy (by a registered vet who had seen the animal in question) was not appropriate for use in guinea pigs. Everyone makes mistakes, misreads information, and sometimes thinks they know things that they don't. This is why we are so diligent in making sure even our extremely qualified members, many of whom work and teach in the area of small animal care, focus on providing support and guidance rather than very specific medical information.
Being able to appreciate the moral and legal situation of the Forum, and respect that (even when their own specific knowledge far outweighs that that they perceive a member is receiving form their vet) is part and parcel of being a valuable Forum member, and continuing to make an ongoing contribution to improving guinea pig welfare.

If you truly are unable to respect this, and feel your only way to contribute is to advise members to experiment with dosages, or override their vets instructions then this Forum may not be a good fit for you.
I am sure you have a lot to offer, so hopefully you can find a way to do this without breaching the Forum guidelines.

 

[Swissgreys]

Thank you all, I must admit when I first heard leg amputation it was a massive shock and not something I wanted for her and not even something I can imagine but today it doesn't see quite as shocking and I'm slowly coming to terms with that option. Today she seems better in herself I thibk it's the pain meds, she's eating well and is alert but isn't really that mobile but I need to give her time to recover before I proceed to the next option

Right now it sounds like you are doing everything possible, and it's ok to take time to process things.
As she is still eating and alert things are clearly under control.

Your shock when amputation was mentioned is perfectly normal, but we need to remember that animals don't have the same emotional baggage associated with the loss of a limb that us humans do. Obviously every situation is unique, but if a limb truly can't be saved then sometimes animals adapt faster and are far happier without it.

Whatever happens your piggy is lucky to have such a devoted owner who is open to all of the options.

 

[Tara95]

Right now it sounds like you are doing everything possible, and it's ok to take time to process things.
As she is still eating and alert things are clearly under control.

Your shock when amputation was mentioned is perfectly normal, but we need to remember that animals don't have the same emotional baggage associated with the loss of a limb that us humans do. Obviously every situation is unique, but if a limb truly can't be saved then sometimes animals adapt faster and are far happier without it.

Whatever happens your piggy is lucky to have such a devoted owner who is open to all of the options.

Thank you x

 

[AngryPenguin]

I think you might be missing the point of the Forum.
We are here predominantly to help, advise, guide and support guinea pig owners on all areas of guinea pig care.
Because we are publicly searchable we pride ourselves on a high level of comprehensive information aimed at all levels of experience.

We are not here to offer specific medical advice - there are plenty of sites out there advocating home treatments, and encouraging owners not to seek veterinary help when their piggies clearly need it. We prefer to guide and support by sharing personal experiences. We do not advocate overriding information given by qualified vets who have seen an animal in person.

You yourself offered incorrect information in another thread, stating that the medication given to a piggy (by a registered vet who had seen the animal in question) was not appropriate for use in guinea pigs. Everyone makes mistakes, misreads information, and sometimes thinks they know things that they don't. This is why we are so diligent in making sure even our extremely qualified members, many of whom work and teach in the area of small animal care, focus on providing support and guidance rather than very specific medical information.
Being able to appreciate the moral and legal situation of the Forum, and respect that (even when their own specific knowledge far outweighs that that they perceive a member is receiving form their vet) is part and parcel of being a valuable Forum member, and continuing to make an ongoing contribution to improving guinea pig welfare.

If you truly are unable to respect this, and feel your only way to contribute is to advise members to experiment with dosages, or override their vets instructions then this Forum may not be a good fit for you.
I am sure you have a lot to offer, so hopefully you can find a way to do this without breaching the Forum guidelines.

It's all good. MD and PhD here and have been disregarded. Happy to provide proof too

Anyway


Cheers

 

[Merab]

Thank you all, I must admit when I first heard leg amputation it was a massive shock and not something I wanted for her and not even something I can imagine but today it doesn't see quite as shocking and I'm slowly coming to terms with that option. Today she seems better in herself I thibk it's the pain meds, she's eating well and is alert but isn't really that mobile but I need to give her time to recover before I proceed to the next option

That sounds a very good plan.
You are an excellent piggy slave dealing with a difficult situation.
You may well have a major decision to make about amputation or not, but take the time to consider the pros and cons.
My tactic for difficult decisions - whatever they are - is to make a decision and live with it for a few days. If it still feels right then I go ahead, if I feel uncer or uncomfortable then I make a different decision.

You will make the right choice because you love your girl and you will know in your heart what is best for her.

 

[Bill & Ted]

If the little lady is eating and drinking and seems quite ok in herself take the time to process all the options you have for her. Amputation sounds quite shocking but actually there’s lots of animals out there leading happy healthy lives. I think it’s just us humans that stress, animals just get on with life

 

[Tara95]

That sounds a very good plan.
You are an excellent piggy slave dealing with a difficult situation.
You may well have a major decision to make about amputation or not, but take the time to consider the pros and cons.
My tactic for difficult decisions - whatever they are - is to make a decision and live with it for a few days. If it still feels right then I go ahead, if I feel uncer or uncomfortable then I make a different decision.

You will make the right choice because you love your girl and you will know in your heart what is best for her.

Aww thank you for the support and kind words

 

[Tara95]

If the little lady is eating and drinking and seems quite ok in herself take the time to process all the options you have for her. Amputation sounds quite shocking but actually there’s lots of animals out there leading happy healthy lives. I think it’s just us humans that stress, animals just get on with life

Aww thank you for your support

 

[Bill & Ted]

How is Boo doing, just wondering? Hope she’s doing better

 

[Tara95]

How is Boo doing, just wondering? Hope she’s doing better

Aww thank you for asking just gave her meds now. We're both just said to each other although she's better in herself (squeaking for food and coming out) she's not putting weight on the leg atall so her appointment I've booked on Monday ill probably see if she can be put in for an X Ray but then I don't even know what the next steps will be amputation etc

 

[Bill & Ted]

Aww thank you for asking just gave her meds now. We're both just said to each other although she's better in herself (squeaking for food and coming out) she's not putting weight on the leg atall so her appointment I've booked on Monday ill probably see if she can be put in for an X Ray but then I don't even know what the next steps will be amputation etc

Glad she seems happier in herself, good luck for Monday at least you‘ll know what’s happening with her leg after an X-ray hope it’s just a sprain