Broken/sprained leg

[Tara95]

I noticed very late at night the day before yesterday that Boo (my largest guinea pig, in my profile pic) had a limp like she was walking on 3 legs. I managed to get her an appointment at 5 yesterday, I would've liked to get her seen sooner but I have just started a new job so couldn't book one earlier in working hours (feel terrible).

The whole thing looks terrible, I didn't handle her as I didn't want to make it any worse. But thinking about it she hasn't been her usual self and has been hiding alot and eating food when I pass it to her but not necessarily coming out for it. I spent alot of time with them last Saturday and she wasn't limping atall then but guinea pigs are good at hiding things. Because she is barely moving apart from to get veg, after speaking to the vet I have decided to temporarily separate her but she can still.interact through the bars with the others. But she is not choosing too as she is in sp mu h pain I believe. I thought by separating her she won't have to run around the large cage as much /I can give her Meds alot easier and she won't have to compete with 6 others pigs for hay/food especially if she's nor feeling like moving. but she hasn't even been in the two soft beds at the back (even though she loves to sit on soft things, I think it's because she can't move her bag leg well even with the pain killer. The vet felt her leg but said it was hard to feel if it was broken as she was in pain. She told me she believed it was a sprain and told me to.give her 0.5 metacam last night and then tp.give her 0.25 once a day after that for 6 days. Do you think that is enough? Even after the high dose of pain meds I haven't seen much improvement but atleast she's eating.

 

[Bill & Ted]

Poor little Boo, I hope it’s just a sprain. My vet has prescribed 0.5 ml twice a day for dental pain for Ted in the past he was around 1250 gms around that time, so depend on her weight you can figure it out. Can they offer her an X-ray to see if there is a break?

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.

Is it dog or cat metacam? cat being much weaker than dog. Piggies can take high doses of dog painkiller twice a day. It really is a surprise how much they can take when in pain
how much does she weigh?

0.25 once a day is not likely enough. Piggies need pain med twice a day due to the fact they metabolise them in 12 hours. If it is cat metacam and if she is a heavy pig then 0.25 once a day is definitely not likely to do much.

Make sure you weigh her regularly as pain will stop them from eating enough hay.
Speak to the vet about dosage if she is in pain

 

[Tara95]

She's 1115 currently, Do you think I could give her 0.25 twice a day for example 0.25 at 9 and 0.25 at 9 at night? Its is cat metacam and been told only to give it once a day for 6 days and no longer even though my appointment (follow up which they said she probably wouldn't need if she has improved is in 9 days) I have to stop.after 6 and can't carry on. I have a small pack of 3ml in total do I have enough to adjust as I really think she needs it. Thank you all for help xx

 

[Tara95]

Poor little Boo, I hope it’s just a sprain. My vet has prescribed 0.5 ml twice a day for dental pain for Ted in the past he was around 1250 gms around that time, so depend on her weight you can figure it out. Can they offer her an X-ray to see if there is a break?

The vet thought this would do.the trick and then if she is still in pain "hasn't improved" to come back and they could do an X- Ray

 

[Tara95]

I’m sorry to hear this.

Is it dog or cat metacam? cat being much weaker than dog. Piggies can take high doses of dog painkiller twice a day. It really is a surprise how much they can take when in pain
how much does she weigh?

0.25 once a day is not likely enough. Piggies need pain med twice a day due to the fact they metabolise them in 12 hours. If it is cat metacam and if she is a heavy pig then 0.25 once a day is definitely not likely to do much.

Make sure you weigh her regularly as pain will stop them from eating enough hay.
Speak to the vet about dosage if she is in pain

Thank you very much I have replied to you below x

 

[Tara95]

 

[Piggies&buns]

Unfortunately we can’t tell you what to give, we can only say that we have personally been given higher doses twice a day but obviously each situation is different.
I would call the vet and tell them that you don’t think the dose is touching her pain

 

[Tara95]

Unfortunately we can’t tell you what to give, we can only say that we have personally been given higher doses twice a day but obviously each situation is different.
I would call the vet and tell them that you don’t think the dose is touching her pain

OK thank you, I have just rung the vets and said she is still in alot of pain and is it possibly to up the pain meds and give them twice a day e.g 0.25 twice instead of once as normally when I've given pain meds to.guinea pigs it is twice a day rather than once. She's going to.give Me a call back soon I think x

 

[Tara95]

Unfortunately we can’t tell you what to give, we can only say that we have personally been given higher doses twice a day but obviously each situation is different.
I would call the vet and tell them that you don’t think the dose is touching her pain

Do you think I've done the right thing to separate? Normally I would have expected some type of response from her to indicate that she wants to be with them. Like sniffing through the bars or something but there is nothing she just hides and comes out for me for food and meticam (actually taking it without me having to.handle her.) Normally I would never separate but I just thibk she's in too much pain and can't move away fast atall and as she'd top pig others would be trying to dominate I imagine. Plus they're all so clumsy they are always jumping on each other or treading on toes I imagine ! X

 

[Bill & Ted]

The Metacam I am always given is for Dogs, so I would agree it’s a rather small dose and unlikely to give her much pain relief. I would ring the vets and discuss the dosage and see what they have to say. Good luck x

 

[Bill & Ted]

I think she is probably better off separate for now unless she starts to get very depressed on her own. Hope it’s just a splain. perhaps you could book her in for an X-ray so there’s no delay with appts once you’ve spoken about painkillers

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thats a difficult one. Generally the advice is don’t separate but it has to be taken on an individual basis. It sounds like maybe she is wanting to isolate herself which could be indicative of pain. The next piggy down in the hierwrchy can sometimes take their opportunity to try to take over but it depends on the piggies. Second in command may not attempt if it the leader is a strong one, injured/poorly or not.
When Dex sprained his leg there was no way he needed to be separated, he was just moving a little more slowly but he is the submissive of the two.

 

[PigglePuggle]

Personally I think if the injury is bad enough she can't stay mobile on 3 legs, especialky if it is a back leg that isnt needed for balance, I'd be wanting an xray straight away. Whether to seperate may depend on how much her friends try to mount her- if they are very humpy pigs who might compress the injury by pressing on her rear end then separation with through the bars contact makes sense- but as others have said, it will affect the group hierarchy and dynamic, I think I would want full diagnosis/prognosis, exactly whats wrong and how long it might take to heal, before taking a piggy away from their friends.
The metacam dose does sound rather low, but prescribing guidelines have changed an awful lot since cat metacam was licenced for guinea pigs, and most vets will initially stick within the on-label prescribing guidelines which currently seem to be 0.3mls cat metacam per kilo body weight at a time, but with the option to recommend this twice daily.
Anecdotally, and from experienced vets and piggy owners, 0.4mls dog metacam (that would be 1.2mls cat metacam) daily is completely safe, and published scientific toxicology research studies conducted on guinea pigs confirm 1ml cat metacam daily for 3 months had no ill effects.
But, veterinary guidelines and advice change- just like medical advice, for example whether it is safer for babies to sleep on their back or their front, and when to introduce solid food- all these things get revised over time, and what was considered safe and normal 10 or 20 years ago may not be standard practice now!
Best of luck, but really without an xray you and the vet are just guessing, so I would push for that doing immediately based on the symptoms you describe and the pain relief being insufficient x

 

[Tara95]

I think she is probably better off separate for now unless she starts to get very depressed on her own. Hope it’s just a splain. perhaps you could book her in for an X-ray so there’s no delay with appts once you’ve spoken about painkillers

Thank you, the vet seemed to think the meds would work but I'm not under the impression they'll be a dramatic improvement so I'll probably book her in for an X-Ray after the medication to investigate what it is x

 

[Tara95]

Thats a difficult one. Generally the advice is don’t separate but it has to be taken on an individual basis. It sounds like maybe she is wanting to isolate herself which could be indicative of pain. The next piggy down in the hierwrchy can sometimes take their opportunity to try to take over but it depends on the piggies. Second in command may not attempt if it the leader is a strong one, injured/poorly or not.
When Dex sprained his leg there was no way he needed to be separated, he was just moving a little more slowly but he is the submissive of the two.

Thank you, Tbh, I can't imagine separating any of the other pigs like Mittens, Bear, Tiger etc as they all have a special bond with their original pair/birth sister and would look for the other one if taken out etc, but I don't think Boo has ever had that special bond with her birth sister as they always argued and avoided each other but she got on with everyone but could be quite aggressive towards others at times. Also I think she knows she is injured so is naturally separating herself from the herd? Or just not feeling like her usual self. I've spoken to the vets and they said they're happy for me to up the dose from 0.25 to 0.5 but she only wants me to give the 0.5 Metacam once a day and not twice? I was thinking I could perhaps gibe her 0.25 twice a day to separate the dose if it wouldn't do any harm.

 

[Tara95]

Personally I think if the injury is bad enough she can't stay mobile on 3 legs, especialky if it is a back leg that isnt needed for balance, I'd be wanting an xray straight away. Whether to seperate may depend on how much her friends try to mount her- if they are very humpy pigs who might compress the injury by pressing on her rear end then separation with through the bars contact makes sense- but as others have said, it will affect the group hierarchy and dynamic, I think I would want full diagnosis/prognosis, exactly whats wrong and how long it might take to heal, before taking a piggy away from their friends.
The metacam dose does sound rather low, but prescribing guidelines have changed an awful lot since cat metacam was licenced for guinea pigs, and most vets will initially stick within the on-label prescribing guidelines which currently seem to be 0.3mls cat metacam per kilo body weight at a time, but with the option to recommend this twice daily.
Anecdotally, and from experienced vets and piggy owners, 0.4mls dog metacam (that would be 1.2mls cat metacam) daily is completely safe, and published scientific toxicology research studies conducted on guinea pigs confirm 1ml cat metacam daily for 3 months had no ill effects.
But, veterinary guidelines and advice change- just like medical advice, for example whether it is safer for babies to sleep on their back or their front, and when to introduce solid food- all these things get revised over time, and what was considered safe and normal 10 or 20 years ago may not be standard practice now!
Best of luck, but really without an xray you and the vet are just guessing, so I would push for that doing immediately based on the symptoms you describe and the pain relief being insufficient x

Thank you I will do when we go back after the pain killer course as the vet seems to think it may do the trick. I've never actually had any leg injuries before with any of my 7 and I've had them all for nearly 2 and a half years now. Tbh, I haven't had any problems/illnesses with any of my 7 for over a year maybe a year and a half so I've been very lucky. (Apart from one hay poke a year ago ) what would the next steps be if the leg was broken? And what would the step be if it was just a sprain? Thank you for advice. I've just spoken to my vet and she said she's happy for me to up the metacam from 0.25 a day to 0.5 bit she said only tp give once a day and not twice. I'm going to see if I can give her 0.25 twice a day as I can't see why not. X

 

[Piggies&buns]

They metabolise pain meds in 12 hours so once a day isn’t usually enough

 

[Tara95]

They metabolise pain meds in 12 hours so once a day isn’t usually enough

I'll probably give her the 0.25 every every 12 hours to be safe. What would the next steps be If her leg was broken? Or it was a sprain? I don't really have any experience with leg injuries

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m not sure on a break as it would depend on the situation.

A sprain should just heal on its own

 

[PigglePuggle]

Some leg breaks, if its a straight break and the muscles are holding the bone roughly in the correct place, heal ok on their own (not perfectly, but good enough to live a mormal happy if slightly limpy life!) but piggies dont do leg casts usually and a complex break especially a back leg which bears less weight may be better with an earlyish amputation- sounds extreme, but with an experienced vet may heal faster than a splintery unstable bone.
I have a piggy who arrived with us with an untreated broken leg which had healed, but left her with a fused swollen leg joint- and she has survived 4 more years and had a very good life, though age 6+ she is very arthritic now due to the extra strain on her other legs- she is literally on her last legs now poor girl, but has lived a happy if slightly lopsided normal lifespan.
Overall the day to day treatment and pain management wont differ much between a sprain and a break if it is a lucky clean stable break that has a good chance of healing- but knowing what sort of break, and if it can heal, is pretty key to knowing how to proceed- a splintery break may be harder to diagnose just by feeling the leg, but can be causing soft tissue damage, becoming infected, and also be extremely painful with no chance of healing- much better to know up front I think and act soon if that were the case.
Not wanting to scare you of course, hopefully it is just a sprain, and hopefully a simple xray can quickly set your mind at rest, or let you know what your options are x

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Hi, hopefully your piggy will be able to heal without the need for surgery but if not there is every chance she will cope with it well. I use to have a piggy who had to have a rear leg amputated following a fall during the night. He was xrayed and operated on the following day. He was around 5 months at the time and went on to live to be an old fella without any problems and didn't suffer with arthritis. Amputation sounds dramatic but is a much more straight forward procedure than, for example, abdominal surgery. Hind legs are mainly used to power themselves forwards with the front legs acting more as shock absorbers as well as carrying the bulk of a piggy's weight which is in the skull and chest, so they can cope very well with the loss of a hind leg. The main issues they can have are not bring able groom properly so need regular brushing, and the risk of putting extra strain on the other legs if allowed to become overweight.

 

[AngryPenguin]

Sadly I know way too much about this topic. This could be a soft tissue injury, or it could be a dislocation, or even a fracture. If it's a dislocation, then the window to pop the joint back in has probably passed (we learned this the hard way). If you want to know for sure, get an x-ray.

There are literally 12 studies on meloxicam in rodents, bunnies, and guinea pigs within arms reach right now as I've been pouring over studies and speaking with clinicians.

A few important things to note:

1) You must understand the strength of meloxicam you've been prescribed. In this case, yes, you've been prescribed cat meloxicam but the label itself, I think, is wrong. The label SHOULD say 0.5mg/mL if I understand the strength of cat meloxicam.
2) At a bare minimum, meloxicam should be given twice a day, though three times a day is preferred (At 8 hour intervals). It's because meloxicam has a half life of around 6-8 hours. In our piggy with severe arthritis, we could literally tell when his pain shot up at the tail end of twelve hour (2x/day) dosages, so we went to three times a day, our sleep be damned.



Good luck!

Edited by moderator to remove dosage information.

 

[VickiA]

@AngryPenguin I can see that one of my fellow mods has edited your post to remove dosage information. I know you mean to be helpful to a fellow member, but as a forum we have to ensure that we stay on the correct side of the law. It’s fine to speak of your own experience and how this was treated by you and your vet, but unfortunately we can’t calculate dosages for anyone else. Only a qualified vet can do that and after examination of the piggy. I know it’s frustrating when we think a vet has got it wrong, but we do have to stay on the correct side of the law.

 

[Merab]

I can’t add to the advice but want to offer support

 

[Tara95]

Some leg breaks, if its a straight break and the muscles are holding the bone roughly in the correct place, heal ok on their own (not perfectly, but good enough to live a mormal happy if slightly limpy life!) but piggies dont do leg casts usually and a complex break especially a back leg which bears less weight may be better with an earlyish amputation- sounds extreme, but with an experienced vet may heal faster than a splintery unstable bone.
I have a piggy who arrived with us with an untreated broken leg which had healed, but left her with a fused swollen leg joint- and she has survived 4 more years and had a very good life, though age 6+ she is very arthritic now due to the extra strain on her other legs- she is literally on her last legs now poor girl, but has lived a happy if slightly lopsided normal lifespan.
Overall the day to day treatment and pain management wont differ much between a sprain and a break if it is a lucky clean stable break that has a good chance of healing- but knowing what sort of break, and if it can heal, is pretty key to knowing how to proceed- a splintery break may be harder to diagnose just by feeling the leg, but can be causing soft tissue damage, becoming infected, and also be extremely painful with no chance of healing- much better to know up front I think and act soon if that were the case.
Not wanting to scare you of course, hopefully it is just a sprain, and hopefully a simple xray can quickly set your mind at rest, or let you know what your options are x

OK thank you for advise

 

[Tara95]

Hi, hopefully your piggy will be able to heal without the need for surgery but if not there is every chance she will cope with it well. I use to have a piggy who had to have a rear leg amputated following a fall during the night. He was xrayed and operated on the following day. He was around 5 months at the time and went on to live to be an old fella without any problems and didn't suffer with arthritis. Amputation sounds dramatic but is a much more straight forward procedure than, for example, abdominal surgery. Hind legs are mainly used to power themselves forwards with the front legs acting more as shock absorbers as well as carrying the bulk of a piggy's weight which is in the skull and chest, so they can cope very well with the loss of a hind leg. The main issues they can have are not bring able groom properly so need regular brushing, and the risk of putting extra strain on the other legs if allowed to become overweight.

Hi thank you. My guinea pig is naturally very large which is why I think why she's struggling on 3 legs so much. She has unlimited access to Timothy hay and limited healthy veg such as Cucumber, Bell pepper and Lettuce (a small part of each per day with a few grain free pellets) and is very large naturally. She's getting the same diet but as she is less active due to resting for recovery I expect she will put on more which may not help her.

 

[Tara95]

Sadly I know way too much about this topic. This could be a soft tissue injury, or it could be a dislocation, or even a fracture. If it's a dislocation, then the window to pop the joint back in has probably passed (we learned this the hard way). If you want to know for sure, get an x-ray.

There are literally 12 studies on meloxicam in rodents, bunnies, and guinea pigs within arms reach right now as I've been pouring over studies and speaking with clinicians.

A few important things to note:

1) You must understand the strength of meloxicam you've been prescribed. In this case, yes, you've been prescribed cat meloxicam but the label itself, I think, is wrong. The label SHOULD say 0.5mg/mL if I understand the strength of cat meloxicam.
2) At a bare minimum, meloxicam should be given twice a day, though three times a day is preferred (At 8 hour intervals). It's because meloxicam has a half life of around 6-8 hours. In our piggy with severe arthritis, we could literally tell when his pain shot up at the tail end of twelve hour (2x/day) dosages, so we went to three times a day, our sleep be damned.



Good luck!

Edited by moderator to remove dosage information.

Hi thank you for your advice. The label does say 0.5 on the bottle but in my instructions is says differently. Have you given your guinea pig 0.5 twice a day for example and did you find this to be effective for pain relief? Many thanks

 

[Tara95]

I can’t add to the advice but want to offer support

Thank you

 

[PigglePuggle]

Hi thank you for your advice. The label does say 0.5 on the bottle but in my instructions is says differently. Have you given your guinea pig 0.5 twice a day for example and did you find this to be effective for pain relief? Many thanks

Hi @Tara95 please be guided by your vet, and dont attempt to change doses without their advice- in the UK it is not legal to do so, and we have seen some concerning posts here recently from new members whose claimed expertise has not been verified and actually contradicts UK law and also veterinary prescribing guidelines.