Bonding help

Honey&truffle

Honey&truffle

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
Oct 16, 2023
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Location
Telford
My girl met a new pig today on the grass and they seemed to get along . They would follow eachother around snd chatter away to one another . They were on the grass for a few hours so I thought it was all going really well.

I then cleaned the hutch out and put them both in. They ignored eachother for a few hours . But I have put them both upstairs in the hutch because it’s now dark and I’ve always done it to keep them safer and warmer .

The new pig will not let my original girl in the bed area with her . So I put a seperate pile outside for her which she went into. The new pig shooed her out of it and now she’s sat in the corner looking terrified. Shall I open the hutch for her to get away (the new pig csnt go up and down at the moment) . I don’t want any fights tonight . They have been arguing and chasing eachother but I really don’t know what to do .

Is this normal behaviour to be territorial over an area? And can they get over it .
 
I have only done two bondings so am far from expert. But the first one I did went really badly at first, the two girls had a full on fight, in that they were rolling about in a shrieking ball. I thought that was it, but it only lasted seconds, after which they each took a corner of the run and glowered at each other. Like boxers in a ring!
Then followed a very stressful week or so, as they came to an agreement about living together. They ended up good friends.
Although they had a fight, neither drew blood from the other, or I would have stopped it there & then. I think I was lucky to get away with that one, but if those two could come to an arrangement, there is a chance that your two will also.
 
Piggies&buns said:
How are they this morning?

New pig sounds like she is scared.
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My original girl looks like she has been in the same corner all night ( new pig in the bed area ) I think she is not letting her join her in the pile of hay and it’s actually my original pig that looked quite scared last night . They just seem to be trying to stay away from eachother . I’m not sure if this is good or bad or how I can help them interact more ?
 
Yes I understood that, but I do still think the new pig is scared and that is why she has isolated herself and isn’t letting your pig near.
Your pig will be upset by the sudden change in her living situation and now not being allowed into a space that she knows has always been hers.
Persistent refusal to interact isn’t usually a good sign I’m afraid.

I would put them back on neutral territory for a few more hours and see what happens.
Ideally they would have lived in side by sides cages for a few days/a week before trying a bonding but I know your situation doesn’t allow that with you having a hutch

Moody Guinea Pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour
 
Piggies&buns said:
Yes I understood that, but I do still think the new pig is scared and that is why she has isolated herself and isn’t letting your pig near.
Persistent refusal to interact isn’t usually a good sign I’m afraid.

I would put them back on neutral territory for a few more hours and see what happens.
Ideally they would have lived in side by sides cages for a few days/a week before trying a bonding but I know your situation doesn’t allow that with you having a hutch

Moody Guinea Pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour
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Yah I will put them on the grass again in a bit and see what happens . Nothing bad happened yestrday and it was going good which is why I’m so confused . They were cuddled up on the grass .

I think I thought my girl was more bossy than she actually is and my sister in law thought hers was timid when it’s being the bossy one !

This is very difficult .
 
Honey&truffle said:
Yah I will put them on the grass again in a bit and see what happens . Nothing bad happened yestrday and it was going good which is why I’m so confused . They were cuddled up on the grass .

I think I thought my girl was more bossy than she actually is and my sister in law thought hers was timid when it’s being the bossy one !

This is very difficult .
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but yeah the new pig is definelty scared as she’s used to being in a herd of 7 so we’ve basicslly kidnapped her to live with honey. Which is why I’m going to be patient for a while to see if she will settle . If not I’ll have to find a new friend. I just want my girl to be happy again.
 
I can't offer any advice but I think since there is no blood drawn they will eventually get used to each other. I know bondings are stressful for the owners and the piggies. I personally wouldn't separate them if no one is hurt and they are not fighting. I might be wrong, since the majority of bonding articles/videos i saw was about boys. Are they eating together?
My two boys during the bonding were laying next to each other and eating together. They were stealing food from each other. All seemed good until I put them in the cage. My og started to chase the other one and the other one was annoyed by it. They didn't go into a full blown fight never did. But i separated them, because i was afraid they will. I still think that i shouldn't have separated them, but i honestly can't go through the process again. Too many nerves.

Do you have a rescue nearby? If you have one maybe you can ask them to do the bonding for you, tell you if it will work out between them. I want to do that with my boys.
 
mims11 said:
I can't offer any advice but I think since there is no blood drawn they will eventually get used to each other. I know bondings are stressful for the owners and the piggies. I personally wouldn't separate them if no one is hurt and they are not fighting. I might be wrong, since the majority of bonding articles/videos i saw was about boys. Are they eating together?
My two boys during the bonding were laying next to each other and eating together. They were stealing food from each other. All seemed good until I put them in the cage. My og started to chase the other one and the other one was annoyed by it. They didn't go into a full blown fight never did. But i separated them, because i was afraid they will. I still think that i shouldn't have separated them, but i honestly can't go through the process again. Too many nerves.

Do you have a rescue nearby? If you have one maybe you can ask them to do the bonding for you, tell you if it will work out between them. I want to do that with my boys.
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They won’t eat veg from the same area the new girl seems to get quite excited and tells my original girl to go away from the food by squealing at her. But they will happily eat grass next to eachother just don’t seem to want to be near eachother in the hutch .

Yeah I have thought into the rescue bit if I need some extra help because like you said it’s such a nervous process .
 
Turns out this picture was a one offf and they have gone back to sitting away from eachother and hardly interacting. Is this normal ? It’s been 3 days now and don’t seem to like being near eachother unless being on the grass or scared. (They will run away from one another)
 
Honey&truffle said:
Turns out this picture was a one offf and they have gone back to sitting away from eachother and hardly interacting. Is this normal ? It’s been 3 days now and don’t seem to like being near eachother unless being on the grass or scared. (They will run away from one another)
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I think it's OK- lots of bonded piggies don't spend time cuddled up or close to each other. My 2 sows were mostly apart but they still interacted with each other and my husboar.
Providing there is no fighting or aggression and neither pig is bullying the other off food or hidies, I think they are probably OK together. Maybe weigh both a bit more frequently for a couple of weeks to make sure they're both eating enough?
 
My boys don't really do much together. In fact if Chesney tries to show affection by rubbing his chin on Stripe, Stripe rumbles. They do talk, though. Little chutting sounds as they walk around the cage.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
I think it's OK- lots of bonded piggies don't spend time cuddled up or close to each other. My 2 sows were mostly apart but they still interacted with each other and my husboar.
Providing there is no fighting or aggression and neither pig is bullying the other off food or hidies, I think they are probably OK together. Maybe weigh both a bit more frequently for a couple of weeks to make sure they're both eating enough?
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The only problem I'm having is at night time i shut them upstairs and close the ramp . And my old 2 used to both go in the bed area to keep warm etc (especially in winter) . Irs basically just full of hay go get comfy into . However, the new piggy keeps chasing my orignial piggy out whoch is very sad . So ive had to start putting hay ouside the bed area too so she’s not left out . Is there anytbing i csn do to stop this from happenjng .
 
I don't think you can stop it, it is a bit sad for your original girl, but it may get better once there settled down. (However I'm not an expert). You could instead make a special hidey for your girl from an upside-down cardboard box or carrot cottage, filled with hay, so she doesn't need to go into the bed area. I always had a pile of hay in the open upstairs area, as well as a snuggle sack/cuddle cup/fleece tunnel for any piggies who wanted, to go into.
 
I actually completely remove the dividing walls in the bedroom area of hutches so to stop this kind of thing.
The bedroom section of the hutch is effectively a one door hide and you never want one door hides. One piggy can claim it as their own and stop the other from entering - which is what sounds to be happening.
Removing the divider means the whole hutch is open, put two hides in the upstairs of the hutch instead.

I use bendy log bridges as hides. I put the two bridges side by side but pull them away from the edge of the hutch so there are no dead ends.
Fill them underneath and on top with hay. I also put a small fleece over the top to help hold warmth in. Pop snugglesafes underneath each one in winter.
 
Piggies&buns said:
I actually completely remove the dividing walls in the bedroom area of hutches so to stop this kind of thing.
The bedroom section of the hutch is effectively a one door hide and you never want one door hides. One piggy can claim it as their own and stop the other from entering - which is what sounds to be happening.
Removing the divider means the whole hutch is open, put two hides in the upstairs of the hutch instead.

I use bendy log bridges as hides. I put the two bridges side by side but pull them away from the edge of the hutch so there are no dead ends.
Fill them underneath and on top with hay. I also put a small fleece over the top to help hold warmth in. Pop snugglesafes underneath each one in winter.
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That makes sense thank you. I just worry it’s going to be cold without the bed area . I like how it’s closed off. I do have 2 heat pads though for the winter.
 
Is chasing my original piggy still normal . It’s not just the bed area she does it . Even just chilling downstairs she will just tell her to move and she runs and gets chased for 1-2 seconds. It’s the 5th day now and unsure if this is normal ?
 
Honey&truffle said:
Is chasing my original piggy still normal . It’s not just the bed area she does it . Even just chilling downstairs she will just tell her to move and she runs and gets chased for 1-2 seconds. It’s the 5th day now and unsure if this is normal ?
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Bonding behaviours will continue for the first two weeks.
As long as you are seeing that they are otherwise happy together then it is just a phase they need to go through
 
Piggies&buns said:
Bonding behaviours will continue for the first two weeks.
As long as you are seeing that they are otherwise happy together then it is just a phase they need to go through
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I’m finding it quite difficult to figure out if my original girl is scared of her and unhappy with her . Idk if she just doesnt like the chasing , if the other one is starting to bully her and won’t leave her alone . But something doesn’t seem right and I have no clue if it’s normal or not . It’s not even just the bed area situstion. It happens outside in the open downstairs . She just get chased and tries to get away from her .
 
If I attach some videos . My girl (fluffy one) looks quite stressed . I know I’m pointing the torch at them but even without the torch she looks stressed . I can see it in her eyes. It’s like she doesn’t want to be near her. After she gets chased she will freeze and sit weird for a bit like she’s scared. Is this behaviour normal?

3 July 2024
3 July 2024

3 July 2024
3 July 2024
 
It’s so hard for us to tell from a few seconds of a clip. If she is constantly looking scared and on edge then the way to determine if she is happier away from her is to separate them for a few days and see if she is perks up in those few days. Then try a neutral territory reintroduction and see what happens.
 
Piggies&buns said:
It’s so hard for us to tell from a few seconds of a clip. If she is constantly looking scared and on edge then the way to determine if she is happier away from her is to separate them for a few days and see if she is perks up in those few days. Then try a neutral territory reintroduction and see what happens.
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What I’m trying to understand is if it’s normal for my original girl to try and get away from her when she comes near.
 
Yes - It could be that your original pig is simply respecting her new companion being dominant and leaving when she is told to.
What we cant tell from a few second clip is whether this is within the realms of normal for a new bond or may be escalating into a continual dislike of interaction with each other and then with the potential to be going into bullying with constantly being chased away from hides, food etc with little to no positive interaction between them.
The guides help you gauge when things are going well or when things may be tipping the other way

This is why the advice is to leave them to it while it remains dominance and they are otherwise interacting normally - remembering that positive and normal interaction doesn’t equate to that they will definitely be snuggling together etc.
You can do a temporary separation if you are concerned things aren’t working out. This allows you to gauge reaction of the underpig and whether they then appear happier when they are no longer with the companion.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Yes - It could be that your original pig is simply respecting her new companion being dominant and leaving when she is told to.
What we cant tell from a few second clip is whether this is within the realms of normal for a new bond or may be escalating into a continual dislike of interaction with each other and then with the potential to be going into bullying with constantly being chased away from hides, food etc with little to no positive interaction between them.
The guides help you gauge when things are going well or when things may be tipping the other way

This is why the advice is to leave them to it while it remains dominance and they are otherwise interacting normally - remembering that positive and normal interaction doesn’t equate to that they will definitely be snuggling together etc.
You can do a temporary separation if you are concerned things aren’t working out. This allows you to gauge reaction of the underpig and whether they then appear happier when they are no longer with the companion.
Click to expand...

4 July 2024
4 July 2024

Is this aggression?
 
I'm afraid I can only tell you about my boys. If Chez gets too close, Stripe always rumbles. If Chez tries to show affection, Stripe rumbles. Only occasionally do I see Stripe nibbling Chesney's ears, it's only happened a few times.

Do your girls chut in the cage? Chez and Stripe talk to each other, it's how I know they like each other. Other than that they don't really seem to be friends how I thought they would.
 
Honey&truffle said:
4 July 2024
4 July 2024

Is this aggression?
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That looks concerning to me - they don’t seem comfortable with each other.
I would be separating, at least temporarily, to gauge your original pig’s reaction to being apart. If she is happier to be away from your new pig then that is your answer
 
Ramia said:
I'm afraid I can only tell you about my boys. If Chez gets too close, Stripe always rumbles. If Chez tries to show affection, Stripe rumbles. Only occasionally do I see Stripe nibbling Chesney's ears, it's only happened a few times.

Do your girls chut in the cage? Chez and Stripe talk to each other, it's how I know they like each other. Other than that they don't really seem to be friends how I thought they would.
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This is normal for boys!
They are rather straightforward - if they don’t have an actual fight then they are fine!

Pigs are rather different to other animals in that they don’t tend to show affection to each other, they won’t share hides etc etc but if they aren’t fighting and aren’t bullying each other, then they are ok!
My background is primarily rabbits - I have kept them for over 35 years - and in pairs you really do see a lot of affection. They sleep right next to and touching each other (properly cuddling up), always grooming each other, always together.
 
Ramia said:
I'm afraid I can only tell you about my boys. If Chez gets too close, Stripe always rumbles. If Chez tries to show affection, Stripe rumbles. Only occasionally do I see Stripe nibbling Chesney's ears, it's only happened a few times.

Do your girls chut in the cage? Chez and Stripe talk to each other, it's how I know they like each other. Other than that they don't really seem to be friends how I thought they wou
Click to expand...

Piggies&buns said:
That looks concerning to me - they don’t seem comfortable with each other.
I would be separating, at least temporarily, to gauge your original pig’s reaction to being apart. If she is happier to be away from your new pig then that is your answer
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Yeah I seperated them last night and my girl was like “phew “ I could see how relieved she was . I think I’m just going to find another piggy to bond her with because that was so mean. She doesn’t deserve that .
 
Honey&truffle said:
Yeah I seperated them last night and my girl was like “phew “ I could see how relieved she was . I think I’m just going to find another piggy to bond her with because that was so mean. She doesn’t deserve that .
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It’s a clash in character and the new pig was probably stressed from leaving her herd.
I’m sorry it didn’t work out - hopefully another pig will be a better match.
 
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