Bonding Boars - 3 year old bereaved "Terrence" and 11 week old "Patch"

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joanneswift813

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Hello everyone,

Bear with me whilst I given some background to the situation 😊

Sadly, we lost Desmond on Friday. He had recurring bladder stones, and didn't recover from the second surgery.

Absolutely heartbroken 💔 but in focusing on the best thing for 3 year old, bereaved Terrence, who was coping ok but was quieter than usual, today we brought home Patch.

We bonded them in a neutral space with plenty of room, reading all the absolutely amazing guides on this forum (thank you to everyone who contributed to them - they are an invaluable resource!). There were a couple of minor power struggles, but as expected, Terrence emerged as top piggie. There were no major squabbles, just following each other (mainly Terrence following Patch), a little bit of nipping (mainly Terrence), a little bit of rumble strutting (both), along with washing (both of them), Terrence licking Patch's ears, and little nap which ended peacefully. Terrence was very chilled during his nap - we had a double feet out Friday, which is rare for Terrence!

This progressed over the course of about 3 hours. We deemed this to be successful, so they are now in their permanent pen, which was Terrence and Desmond's pen, but we thoroughly cleaned down everything in there so it smells as neutral as possible (including a wooden house). Terrence has accepted Patch into the permanent space with no issues.

MY QUESTION (finally, thanks for your patience 😊 ) - Since Patch backed down and Terrence was established as top piggie (about half an hour in to our bonding session), any time that Terrence goes near Patch, Patch starts squeaking quite loudly and in a distressed manner, cowering and walking or running away from Terrence. Not squeeling, just distressed squeaking. Terrence is being wonderfully patient with Patch, he's a laid back guinea pig anyway. There is no bullying behaviour from Terrence what-so-ever.

So I'm questioning why Patch is scared of Terrence? Is just that he's been through a lot today (leaving his family, unfamiliar people handling him, etc etc)? Or does he not like Terrence's personality but is too small to fight back? If the latter, I'm concerned it might not be the right long term match. But maybe it's too early to say that.

It's worth noting that it's gradually improved since moving to the permanent pen with houses (the bonding pen just had a tunnel and a huge pile of hay (plus water), with Patch hiding a lot in the hay). Just now, Patch was flopped on the floor outside a house, and has just got up to eat some biscuits/pellets (which are quite close to Terrence), and there is no squeaking! So maybe I'm worrying for nothing and it will settle 😄 but all the same, I'd be delighted to hear any thoughts from experience boar bonders 😊

If it makes any difference, Terrence is a fairly laid back Abysinnian, and Patch is a short haired/American. the description from the breeder was that he's quite chatty but shy due to his age. They are live indoor. Patch came from a local breeder and had mixed with a male group. Also - Patch is definitely male. His testicles are already dropping, and we checked his penis as per the sexing guide on the forum (again, thank you! Invaluable resource). He's 100% male 😄

Look forward to all your thoughts 😊
 
joanneswift813 said:
Hello everyone,

Bear with me whilst I given some background to the situation 😊

Sadly, we lost Desmond on Friday. He had recurring bladder stones, and didn't recover from the second surgery.

Absolutely heartbroken 💔 but in focusing on the best thing for 3 year old, bereaved Terrence, who was coping ok but was quieter than usual, today we brought home Patch.

We bonded them in a neutral space with plenty of room, reading all the absolutely amazing guides on this forum (thank you to everyone who contributed to them - they are an invaluable resource!). There were a couple of minor power struggles, but as expected, Terrence emerged as top piggie. There were no major squabbles, just following each other (mainly Terrence following Patch), a little bit of nipping (mainly Terrence), a little bit of rumble strutting (both), along with washing (both of them), Terrence licking Patch's ears, and little nap which ended peacefully. Terrence was very chilled during his nap - we had a double feet out Friday, which is rare for Terrence!

This progressed over the course of about 3 hours. We deemed this to be successful, so they are now in their permanent pen, which was Terrence and Desmond's pen, but we thoroughly cleaned down everything in there so it smells as neutral as possible (including a wooden house). Terrence has accepted Patch into the permanent space with no issues.

MY QUESTION (finally, thanks for your patience 😊 ) - Since Patch backed down and Terrence was established as top piggie (about half an hour in to our bonding session), any time that Terrence goes near Patch, Patch starts squeaking quite loudly and in a distressed manner, cowering and walking or running away from Terrence. Not squeeling, just distressed squeaking. Terrence is being wonderfully patient with Patch, he's a laid back guinea pig anyway. There is no bullying behaviour from Terrence what-so-ever.

So I'm questioning why Patch is scared of Terrence? Is just that he's been through a lot today (leaving his family, unfamiliar people handling him, etc etc)? Or does he not like Terrence's personality but is too small to fight back? If the latter, I'm concerned it might not be the right long term match. But maybe it's too early to say that.

It's worth noting that it's gradually improved since moving to the permanent pen with houses (the bonding pen just had a tunnel and a huge pile of hay (plus water), with Patch hiding a lot in the hay). Just now, Patch was flopped on the floor outside a house, and has just got up to eat some biscuits/pellets (which are quite close to Terrence), and there is no squeaking! So maybe I'm worrying for nothing and it will settle 😄 but all the same, I'd be delighted to hear any thoughts from experience boar bonders 😊

If it makes any difference, Terrence is a fairly laid back Abysinnian, and Patch is a short haired/American. the description from the breeder was that he's quite chatty but shy due to his age. They are live indoor. Patch came from a local breeder and had mixed with a male group. Also - Patch is definitely male. His testicles are already dropping, and we checked his penis as per the sexing guide on the forum (again, thank you! Invaluable resource). He's 100% male 😄

Look forward to all your thoughts 😊
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Hi

Here is our very detailed how-to bonding guide, which takes you through all stages and special aspects step by step: Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

Ultimately, it always comes down to whether the two boars (or piggies at that) gel personality-wise and want to be together, You cannot make them; you can only take as many stress factors out of the equation as possible. We have seen boars reject babies (but happily accept their brothers) - it's always down to how the personalities mesh or not.

All the best.
 
Thanks for the speedy reply. I'd throughly read the guide, it's what we were following throughout the process which was very helpful. I thought I'd post as I wasn't sure about the dynamic of a young guinea pig. Where he's only 11 weeks old, we put them straight in together as per the instructions for piggies under 4 months. I wasn't sure which bits of the rest of the article applied to young piggies vs old piggies, and I couldn't see anything about fear behaviours or one guinea pig constantly hiding, or them not interacting very much.

They are settled together and not fighting with some interaction, but not a lot of interaction. I guess it could just be a slow process as well?
 
The thing to remember is that submissive behaviour and fear is not the same thing. some piggies are happy to be the underpig and just as the dominant pig has to show dominant behaviours the underpig has to show submissive behaviours. The squeeling and running away are just showing his cage mate that he's not a threat and is happy to let his new friend be the boss. Some pigs are a bit more dramatic about this than others. The way my rufus squeals sometimes you'd think he's being murdered but it's usually just that Hugo walked past him. This sort of behaviour will die down after a while they just have to sort things out.
 
Hello and welcome to the forum. I’m sorry you have lost Desmond.

I’ve only bonded boars twice. But your bonding sounds just perfect. It definitely looks like they are getting along fine. The squealing is submissive. Just letting Terrence know it’s cool, he’s the boss. Also I think younger piggies “talk” more.

Post some pictures if you’d like to share as we all love drooling over them. 😃
 
Hello and welcome to the forum
So sorry you lost Desmond :hug: You did the right thing by getting Terrence with Patch. I would not worry at all, this is submissive squealing from Patch. He is just saying “hey it’s ok I know I’m the underling here“ and Terrence is being a kind older boar and Patch will gain his trust and in a few weeks he will feel more at ease, although there should always be a top and a underling for them to get along. Patch isn’t scared, he is doing exactly what he should be doing. It’s good that he has submitted, problems arise when neither boar will back down and take the submissive role, then you have real problems
 
Thanks everyone 😊 that was the conclusion I had come to as well, that this was a good thing, so I'm pleased you think the same. It's the first time we've bonded boars (or any piggies!), I know every time is different but it's hard when you haven't got experience!

It's all change this morning though... Terrence tried to come out of his house twice, and each time Patch has asserted dominance and Terrence ran back to his house. Through rumble strutt/purring, chasing and nipping, teeth chattering, lunging. Terrence did teeth chatter back, but then ran away and Patch chased him (I stepped in as it was a full speed chase and Patch is so much faster than Terrence). Patch has also been yawning at Terrence (I believe this is a show of teeth for dominance from the behaviour guides on the forum).

Following this, Patch went up to Terrence's house and tried to have a go at him, in the house. when I say have a go, I don't mean full on fight, dominance behaviours as described above. This happened 2 or 3 times. Terrence saw him off a couple of times but ran out of his house on the last time and away to the other house. It appears Patch has now taken "ownership" of the house that Terrence has had.

Each time Terrence comes out of a house, it sets off Patch with dominance behaviour. It ends with Terrence running away back to a house. Sometimes Patch has continued to try to have a go at Terrence in a house, in which case I've stepped in. I know that I have to let them work it out for themselves, but when Terrence is essentially trying to hide from Patch, I see it as unfair to allow Patch to continue to bother him. Let me know if I'm doing something wrong here.

Patch hasn't bothered Terrence in the house for about half an hour now. Although, he has gone up tot he house which has sparked teeth chattering from Terrence.

This has all happened over the last 2.5 hours.

I think I know why this may have been caused. Whenever I cleaned out Desmond and Terrence, Terrence would do a bit of exploring, then go and sit in his house munching fresh hay for ages. I was with them for about 3 hours last night before I went to bed, and during Terrence's post cleanout, flopped hay munching inside a house, Patch was out and about the whole time. So I'm wondering if Patch now sees outside the houses as his territory?

Another thing - I'm wondering if Patch has already started his teenage years, or is at the start of them. He is only 11 weeks and 2 days, I know teenage years usually start at 4 months, but I'm wondering if they've come early?

I don't want Terrence to be upset or feel he's being bullied. I do appreciate they have to work things out as well though.

Do tell me if it's all part of the normal dominance phase of bonding I'm worrying over nothing 😅 I just want Terrence to be happy and not feel threatened or bullied.

Thanks again for all your thoughts in advance 😊

Here are some photos 😊 the young one on his own is Patch, taken yesterday evening. The two together are Terrence (multi coloured abysinnian) and Desmond (black and brown American/short haired), with myself and husband Christian.
 

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He is young to be acting so dominant but I would think if he's going to try and be the dominant one now he'd definitely give it a go when he's older and the hormones kick in so I wouldn't try and stop it. Replace any hides with one entrance for hides that have multiple exits even if they're just cardboard boxes with doors cut out. This way Terrance won't get trapped in one. And make sure there's 2 of everything this may have to include hay trays. This behaviour can go on for up to 2 weeks and there may be some back and forth on who seems to be the dominant one but it's all part of the process of sorting things out. If Terrance respects patches authority patch will relax and let Terrance do more.

Make sure you do weekly weigh ins as long as Terrance is not loosing weight you know patch is still letting him eat so all is well.
 
I agree take out any hides that have only one entrance as Terrence does not want to be in a situation where he is trapped inside, this can lead to fights. Keep an eye out to make sure Terrence is getting enough food to eat and drink (two of everything) scatter any food and pellets around the cage, don’t bother using bowls. If you need to remove all hides and just use a nice deep layer of hay instead if hides become a major issue. It should all settle down within a week or two. Patch is definitely trying it on for dominance, the little monkey. It might be a hormone spike and he may settle down after 24 hours. When you clean them out always leave a handful of dirty hay inside so they don’t have to remark their territory Don’t bother with run time for now until they have fully settled as it’s only another “new” area they have to dominate



Good luck 🤞
 
joanneswift813 said:
Thanks for the speedy reply. I'd throughly read the guide, it's what we were following throughout the process which was very helpful. I thought I'd post as I wasn't sure about the dynamic of a young guinea pig. Where he's only 11 weeks old, we put them straight in together as per the instructions for piggies under 4 months. I wasn't sure which bits of the rest of the article applied to young piggies vs old piggies, and I couldn't see anything about fear behaviours or one guinea pig constantly hiding, or them not interacting very much.

They are settled together and not fighting with some interaction, but not a lot of interaction. I guess it could just be a slow process as well?
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The rest follows the normal protocol.

The bonding process still goes through all the stages, just usually in a more abbreviated form. Bonding fails usually show up straight away or with an overly dominant fear-aggressive older boar and a more dominant younger boar, fails can occasionally happen right at the end of the two weeks group establishment period when the under-piggy gets their say as to how far they allow themselves to be pushed.

If there is not a lot of interaction, then things may get doing once your little newbie is finding their feet and you get a bit a delayed bonding.

Just make sure that there are no obvious flash points where the youngster can feel trapped.
 
Thanks @Sweet Potato and @Bill & Ted, that's really helpful and reassuring it's just part of the process. All houses have 2 exits, and 2 of everything - we had to have that for Terrence and Desmond! I think the thing that never occurred to me was that Patch could end up being the dominant one, because of the age difference, but I suppose - this is maybe a classic example of/proof that age is but a number and it all depends on personalities. Just wasn't expecting it!

@Wiebke - thanks for confirming it follows the normal process, just more abbreviated. I hadn't picked that up from the article so it's great to have that confirmed. I'll keep re-reading it for reference. Also, not sure if you saw my post this morning, but it's all change since I came downstairs and Patch has been extremely dominant. We will keep a close watch around the 2 week mark, thanks for that pointer. From everything I've read and the wonderful forum members who have commented, it's going ok at the moment.

In a chance turn of events, things have sort of improved... Christian (my husband) was doing a spot clean on poos with the dust pan and brush, both piggies were in separate houses. Patch got completely and utterly spooked by the this, and ran into Terrence's house. They were then sat together in the same house, peacefully, for about half an hour! Then literally as I am typing out this post, there was a disagreement, a few nose buts started by Patch by the looks of things (they were in the house so I couldn't fully see) with Terrence backing down to exit the house and go to the other one.

Looks like Patch has the much more dominant personality. Previously with Desmond and Terrence, I think Desmond (the one who passed) was the dominant one. So... looks like we will have to keep an eye, and hopefully Terrence accepts Patch as top piggie.

One thing I've considered is if they have enough space... it was plenty of space for Desmond and Terrence, they were really happy. But I don't know what space Patch came from. The lady we got Patch from said that at points he spent time with a group of boars, sounds like 10+. So he might be used to more space. We have a cage extension available, but don't really have the space in our house to make the cage any bigger!

Will keep you posted if you're interested in progress 😊
 
Also... I was wondering - is it ok to get them out for a cuddle whilst going through this phase? I'd really love a cuddle with Terrence especially, but also want to get Patch used to us. Equally, not sure if it's a problem to upset the dominance phase? If so, does that mean no cuddles for 2 weeks? Except obviously for cleaning them out...
 
I would say if you get them out for a cuddle, get both out. As far as boars are concerned give them all the space you can spare 😊
 
Merab's Slave said:
Welcome to the forum.
Sorry that you lost Desmond.
Bonging can be rather dramatic from our perspective but it sounds as if Terrence and Patch are sorting themselves out.
I’ve bonded sows and feel like I aged 10 years every time !
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Bonding - not bonging !
Why, Autocorrect, why ?
 
Merab's Slave said:
Welcome to the forum.
Sorry that you lost Desmond.
Bonging can be rather dramatic from our perspective but it sounds as if Terrence and Patch are sorting themselves out.
I’ve bonded sows and feel like I aged 10 years every time !
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Thanks so much. It's definitely calming down... there has been a lot more uninterrupted snooze time in separate houses this afternoon, even communal drinking from the water bottle station (2 bottles back to back on a stand), although that ended up with a rumble strut from Patch and a minor "tete a tete" before Terrence scurried off! I feel like I've aged 10 years too 😅 it doesn't help that I'm still super emotional over Desmond, who only passed 3 days ago. The sweetest little thing 💔 mischievous too! apart from completely different colours, Patch could be his twin - he's quite the little monkey as well!
 
joanneswift813 said:
Thanks so much. It's definitely calming down... there has been a lot more uninterrupted snooze time in separate houses this afternoon, even communal drinking from the water bottle station (2 bottles back to back on a stand), although that ended up with a rumble strut from Patch and a minor "tete a tete" before Terrence scurried off! I feel like I've aged 10 years too 😅 it doesn't help that I'm still super emotional over Desmond, who only passed 3 days ago. The sweetest little thing 💔 mischievous too! apart from completely different colours, Patch could be his twin - he's quite the little monkey as well!
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Aw treasure your memories of Desmond x

I have experienced one very easy bonding session with my old boy Ted and his two wives Ginger and Posh, very quick and easy. Then eventually came the time to bond young new boy Hector and Ted’s bereaved wives Posh and Ginger. This was a total nightmare and ended in the girls briefly falling out. Hector was no match for their darling Ted and it was a total fail from the getgo and I ended up having to get Hector and little lady of his own, Kiki 5 weeks old. They get in like a house in fire!

Glad it has calmed a little, you will find they will have their “moments” on and off for a week or two
 
Bill & Ted said:
Aw treasure your memories of Desmond x

I have experienced one very easy bonding session with my old boy Ted and his two wives Ginger and Posh, very quick and easy. Then eventually came the time to bond young new boy Hector and Ted’s bereaved wives Posh and Ginger. This was a total nightmare and ended in the girls briefly falling out. Hector was no match for their darling Ted and it was a total fail from the getgo and I ended up having to get Hector and little lady of his own, Kiki 5 weeks old. They get in like a house in fire!

Glad it has calmed a little, you will find they will have their “moments” on and off for a week or two
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Thank you x It's so good to hear your experiences. Proof that every piggie is individual - same 2 ladies, but with the wrong man...! 🤣

I can see now, from yours and others comments, and how Patch and Terrence are, that the next 2 weeks is going to be a roller coaster of a ride 😅 we will see how they go. At the moment, any time Patch goes near Terrence, Terrence chatters his teeth, occasionally lunges at him and then runs away to a house. He seems really pissed of with Patch! I can understand why in a way... he was so kind to Patch during the neutral territory bonding session, Patch was just terrifed I think to be honest but was being very submissive. Now, Patch has thrown is back in Terrence's face and is being dominant, so to speak! We did check this evening and no blood has been drawn, so hopefully they sort it out. As Wiebke said, we'll see how it goes and keep a close eye for the next few weeks 😊
 
We've just had a calm sitting in the same house together for 10 minutes ish which ended peacefully, and now digging in the same pile of hay and munching together (see photo)! 🤞 It ended with a bit of a kerfuffle but I didn't see exactly what happened. It's still all fairly peaceful though, although Terrence is still quite wary of Patch.

Patch has been SO much calmer this afternoon compared with yesterday evening and this morning. Wouldn't surprise me if it was a mad 24 hours and hormone spike 😅 or I suppose the stress of coming to us - we only picked him up yesterday at 3pm. Fingers crossed we keep moving in the right direction now. I'm back to work tomorrow but will keep you posted! 😊
 

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So sorry for your loss of lovely Desmond. Patch is definitely doing his best to keep you occupied!

Sounds as though things are going well and I hope it continues xx
 
Soo... an update for you all! It's been a bit mixed this week... no major fights, but I'm not 100% convinced it's going to work long term yet.

Note: they are still in the same cage (no divider), have 2 or more of everything, loads of hay, houses with minimum 2 exits, etc etc.

Interactions between them have been getting more relaxed, Patch (the young one) is still top piggie! That hasn't changed or swapped all week, and Terrence is seeming to accept that more. He reluctantly took a lick on the ear from Patch (from the info thread on the forum, that's power grooming), then told Patch to sod off with a nose butt/head bob as he did it for too long for Terrence's liking I think 😅 just now, Patch was flopped in the doorway of a house and Terrence was sat outside the house next to him, all quite peaceful. On the other hand... I have seen Patch give Terrence a flying tackle twice this week 😳 that was quite scary, never seen a guinea pig do that before! Once was during a fight when Terrence was standing up for himself - Terrence dodged the tackle (was quite impressed with his super quick reaction!) and then ran away to a house. The second time was my fault because Patch got spooked by me closing the curtains!

From reading on here about fear-aggression, I think this is what Patch is displaying. He was clearly so terrified the first day that he was submissive to Terrence, then once in the permanent pen and settled a bit overnight, started being dominant but from a place of fear (he ran away when Terrence jumped down from the upstairs bit of the house, clearly scared of his size!). Patch been calming down all week and I did get a finger nibble for the first time off him the other day, as well as him taking food from my hand. I think this is partly why it's calmed down between them, because Patch is settling.

The reason I'm not convinced it will work long term - Terrence (the 3 year old) is a SUPER laid back piggie. He just likes to chill. Having lost Desmond and looking quite lost in himself afterwards, he was SO delighted at the end of the initial bonding session with Patch in the neutral territory to have a mate and be top piggie. Patch is so hyper and dominant, bugging him frequently, having to eat the same pieces of hay, be in the house that he's in. He kicks Terrence out of a house for no reason sometimes, then a few minutes later Terrence will go to eat some hay and he'll kick him off that spot. Sometimes he gets kicked off the water too.There are longer periods of time where Patch leaves Terrence along (like, a couple of hours where they have a long snooze), so it's not completely constant. But when Patch is on one, he's on one.

Also, I've been giving Terrence water via syringe every day to top him up if he's short, he always takes some, between 3-5ml at a time, once to twice a day. Patch gets SO annoyed when I give Terrence fuss before him. I've read on here about respecting the hierachy and doing things with top piggie first, but Patch is still too scared of us to do things with him first! It's a wierd situation because without Terrence being top piggie, Patch hasn't got someone to learn from.

I'm considering if an older companion would have been better for Terrence. But I don't think the lady we got Patch from would take him back. I wish I'd read the advice on this forum before getting Patch! Although, I had thought a younger boar might be better for Terrence as they wouldn't compete as much as an older board, but I didn't think about the teenage months. And I think, despite being only 3 months, that Patch is already firmly in his teenage phase. Does that mean it might end earlier? 🙏😃

We are holding out and persevering - checking both piggies regularly and there is no blood drawn. We realise that we are still mid-way through the dominance phase of 2 ish weeks and they are still working things out. We've presumed therefore that we can't say Patch is bullying Terrence, despite the behaviour fitting the bullying description on the forum. Is this the correct assumption to make?

Thanks for taking the time to read 😊 I am reading all the guides but if anyone has anyinsights on the specific situation, we'd be very grateful 😊
 
Thank you for the update!
Well they are still together and have some time yet for the bonding process to be complete. I would leave them be. If you are at all concerned about Terrence getting enough food then weight him at the same time every day and make a note if his weights. If his weight is stable to with 30gm +/- then I think he is getting the same amount of food as before. You would need to worry if his weight was going down everyday or really big drops like 50 gm or more. A full bladder can account for a 30 gm difference in weight.
Patch is obviously a dominant boy and is trying to impose his dominance and being a little over the top. He should settle down a bit more in time but he will have the odd hormone spike every so often while he is a teenager.
Patch will still learn how to be a Guinea pig from Terrence as he is the more experienced boar. You may feel a little sad Terrence is not the boss but if Terrence wasn’t too boy over Desmond then he will accept the young upstart
Hope really hope these two make it as they are both lovely and need company 🤞
 
Bill & Ted said:
Thank you for the update!
Well they are still together and have some time yet for the bonding process to be complete. I would leave them be. If you are at all concerned about Terrence getting enough food then weight him at the same time every day and make a note if his weights. If his weight is stable to with 30gm +/- then I think he is getting the same amount of food as before. You would need to worry if his weight was going down everyday or really big drops like 50 gm or more. A full bladder can account for a 30 gm difference in weight.
Patch is obviously a dominant boy and is trying to impose his dominance and being a little over the top. He should settle down a bit more in time but he will have the odd hormone spike every so often while he is a teenager.
Patch will still learn how to be a Guinea pig from Terrence as he is the more experienced boar. You may feel a little sad Terrence is not the boss but if Terrence wasn’t too boy over Desmond then he will accept the young upstart
Hope really hope these two make it as they are both lovely and need company 🤞
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Thank you @Piggies&buns and @Bill & Ted ! Great to hear your thoughts 😊

Bill & Ted - it's good to know that Patch will still be learning from Terrence. I was concerned he might not because he's top piggie but that's good to know he should. You've hit the nail on the head too... I'm very sad Terrence is not the boss 😅 Well, I think the root of it is that Terrence is such a chilled piggie (not really submissive, just chilled), and as he is now middle aged for a piggie, or approaching it at least, I just want him to be happy and comfortable, have the peace and quiet to chill.

I haven't been weighing Terrence every day, but every few days. I will switch to daily to be on the safe side. Just weighed him now and he is a little down. The last time I weighed him before his dinner was 23/8 at 6pm, and he was 1213g. Next time was 28/8 but I forgot before his dinner so I did it afterwards anyway! Around 8pm, and he was 1263g, so roughly accounting for food not concerning. This morning he is 1176g, but has had no veggies. I'll weigh him later before his dinner at 6pm to be sure though. I realise what you say about doing it at the same time each day!

Terrence is getting to eat and drink, it's not like he's eating no food at all. But definitely something I need to keep an eye.

Interestingly... Patch's nose has just been put out of joint by me getting Terrence out 🙄😅 my husband is up yet though, and there is no way that I would be able to get Patch with just me! It takes one of us at both ends of the cage, otherwise he just runs away to the other end every time we get there!

We'll cross this bridge if it comes, but I guess that if Terrence is consistently loosing weight, we would need to separate them?
 
joanneswift813 said:
Thank you @Piggies&buns and @Bill & Ted ! Great to hear your thoughts 😊

Bill & Ted - it's good to know that Patch will still be learning from Terrence. I was concerned he might not because he's top piggie but that's good to know he should. You've hit the nail on the head too... I'm very sad Terrence is not the boss 😅 Well, I think the root of it is that Terrence is such a chilled piggie (not really submissive, just chilled), and as he is now middle aged for a piggie, or approaching it at least, I just want him to be happy and comfortable, have the peace and quiet to chill.

I haven't been weighing Terrence every day, but every few days. I will switch to daily to be on the safe side. Just weighed him now and he is a little down. The last time I weighed him before his dinner was 23/8 at 6pm, and he was 1213g. Next time was 28/8 but I forgot before his dinner so I did it afterwards anyway! Around 8pm, and he was 1263g, so roughly accounting for food not concerning. This morning he is 1176g, but has had no veggies. I'll weigh him later before his dinner at 6pm to be sure though. I realise what you say about doing it at the same time each day!

Terrence is getting to eat and drink, it's not like he's eating no food at all. But definitely something I need to keep an eye.

Interestingly... Patch's nose has just been put out of joint by me getting Terrence out 🙄😅 my husband is up yet though, and there is no way that I would be able to get Patch with just me! It takes one of us at both ends of the cage, otherwise he just runs away to the other end every time we get there!

We'll cross this bridge if it comes, but I guess that if Terrence is consistently loosing weight, we would need to separate them?
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Weigth loss isn’t considered weight loss until it is 50g or more. It is important to weigh at the same time each day to be able to compare. Weighing first thing in the morning is recommended.

You would only separate if the behaviour and consistent weight loss pointed towards clear signs of bullying and a dysfunctional bond. (And that would be after any potential medical issue had been ruled out)
 
Piggies&buns said:
Weigth loss isn’t considered weight loss until it is 50g or more. It is important to weigh at the same time each day to be able to compare. Weighing first thing in the morning is recommended.

You would only separate if the behaviour and consistent weight loss pointed towards clear signs of bullying and a dysfunctional bond. (And that would be after any potential medical issue had been ruled out)
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Ok, I will switch to morning weighing. Thanks @Piggies&buns 😊 am I right in thinking that because they are still in the bonding/dominance phase, we can't yet decide if it's bullying? Parts of Patch's behaviour match the description in forum advice threads, but I think Patch is still settling and finding his feet (he's been with us 5.5 days now).

Will keep you all posted! Thank you again for your advice and support! x
 
joanneswift813 said:
Ok, I will switch to morning weighing. Thanks @Piggies&buns 😊 am I right in thinking that because they are still in the bonding/dominance phase, we can't yet decide if it's bullying? Parts of Patch's behaviour match the description in forum advice threads, but I think Patch is still settling and finding his feet (he's been with us 5.5 days now).

Will keep you all posted! Thank you again for your advice and support! x
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Yes that’s correct. Bonding can be dramatic and look worse to us than it actually us so you don’t want to panic and separate unnecessarily.
 
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