Bonding 3 Pigs Now, One Is Frozen
- Thread starter oxtinamona
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oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
Hi can someone help please ? I have never seen/experienced submissive bahviours ... can someone describe them all please?
Is it normal that dominant sow nips othe sow net her face and nose ?
I've only just seen your post. I will watch the video.
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
Today it's looking a bit different ... Ginger and Elvis sniff Penelope's bum a LOT.. Penelope let Elvis mount her , protesting a lot as girls do sometimes ...now they're eating hay really close to each other moaning at one other a bit...so she's not stuck in a cornerlike other days... when she is chased off she does run off but then comes back to the middle where other 2 are so that's better than her previous behaviours ... a bit more confident / relaxed I'd say
Good to hear. I've seen bondings before where the baby (bottom pig) has literally done all it can to stay out of the way while the rest of the group sort out the hierarchy. Perhaps that's what Penelope has been doing - showing her lack of dominance by staying away. However, if it had stayed today as it was in the video posted yesterday I would not have been confident that it would work. You know your pigs. You have to read the signs. If Penelope is becoming more relaxed then this may work but you need to see them interacting as a trio comfortably. Everyone needs to be happy. If it's a pair and a single and they they go on to bully her it may not work. How is it when you bring food into the equation?
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
When food is around they all eat near each other no dramas..when I put pellets in they all ate and then one or another chased penny off a bit but she came back ( I put 4 bowls in as precaution) no aggression...
So you think the video from yesterday was them both bullying Penny ? That's what I'm really conscious off ... hence my constant posting.. I am however fully aware that all these bondings for past 5 days were interrupted at night time before bed as we were advised slower, step by step approach so they never had a chance to stay together for more than 4 hrs to work it all out I suppose. She's been making proper submission noises today. First time it happened really.
Yet again, seeing that yesterday's video comcerns you in rather worried still...
I mean... I think I it's very hard to distinguish normal dominance behaviours to Elvis and Ginger simply bullying her ...how do I recognise bullying ... is fairly frequent chasing and nipping bullying, or is it normal... that's the thing... I had 3 failed bonding so I definitely know what that looks like haha...
mind you Penelope is now in a middle of a pen with two others near by and she's lying down chewing hay with Presley ...
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
I meant chewing hay with Elvis 
No I didn't think it was bullying - just that her reaction of complete submission and not interacting wasnt one I'd want to see continue long term. What you are now describing about them eating etc sounds perfectly normal. And sounds like it will settle into a group dynamic.
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
Oh phew... oh my gosh that is such a relief... I'm so worried about bullying etc... she's interacting really well with Elvis, she even moaned a bit and ' told him off' when he got a bit too enthusiastic with mounting...
Yes. She does seem more relaxed and interactive today. Changing is becoming less intense and less frequent. Last few
Times Ginger didn't even nip ... just chased
Off a bit. Tonight is the first time I'm not separating them overnight so
Fingers crossed... fingers crossed it'll
Work out and they will be nice to each other. Thank you for helping out.
I'll be posting tomorrow ( unless something drastic happens - fingers crossed it won't ) x
Just leave them to work it out. Piggies are pragmatic. They will sort it themselves.
I agree with @VickiA
It sounds like they are working through things in their own sweet time.
Like you I was so impatient and worried every step of the way.
I think it was only after I was told it might take a while, that I calmed down a bit (not fully, but a bit!).
I think all you need to look for are signs that it is progressing and evolving, and no one is getting hurt.
It sounds like everyone is slowly finding their feet, but this might take a while, and that's ok.
If I am honest it was over a week before my four seemed to be settled together.
You are doing a fantastic job, so fingers crossed they keep moving in the right direction.
It sounds like they are working through things in their own sweet time.
Like you I was so impatient and worried every step of the way.
I think it was only after I was told it might take a while, that I calmed down a bit (not fully, but a bit!).
I think all you need to look for are signs that it is progressing and evolving, and no one is getting hurt.
It sounds like everyone is slowly finding their feet, but this might take a while, and that's ok.
If I am honest it was over a week before my four seemed to be settled together.
You are doing a fantastic job, so fingers crossed they keep moving in the right direction.
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
Indeed. I'm just watching them now ( instead of a movie I put on. Standard). Hahaha
They had a little mini nap next to each other but it was too good as Ginger then went ' oh I better give Penelope a little chase ahahahah)
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
I don't know if it's a right thing or not as there are different opinions out there but I took them out for lap time/bonding time : it's a Ginger sandwich
Awww they look so snugly there.
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
Yeah hence I'm hopeful. Although these weird outbursts Ginger has with this ' poking ' at Penelope's face repeatedly in a sequence almost (not always even touching her) worries me immensely... I'm sure they're tired of it all as well though and it must be very stressful...
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
@VickiA @Swissgreys @Wiebke Morning all!
Another update, I think it's safe to say that the bonding is successful. The chasing has calmed down a lot and there is just nipping anymore, they all eat together happily and sleep near each other or away depending on what they feel like. Yesterday afternoon I put 4 hideys with 4 entrances each ( plastic stools) and othe than usual chasing Penelope off no other concerning behaviours. Elvis has been mounting and trying to mount Penelope loads so I suspect she may be in heat.
However, most importantly I've seen all of them popcorn... little jumps up ( Ginger is my biggest pig so she doesn't jump very high ahahahaha) so looks like I made it.
First successful bonding and I'm extatic.
I was going to put them in their cage today, but then I thought I may wait. What do you guys think?
Give it another day/night in a pen or move them in the afternoon ? X
No - they are well ready to go in their cage; they've not just gone through acceptance and the roughing out of the hierarchy (which is what you like to have happen in the neutral bonding pen), they are well into consolidating their group hierarchy and identity now.
You don't have to fear a break up or bullying; the top sow may throw her weight around a bit, but that should die down soon and you know that even your bottom girl is now a happy part of the family.
Bonding, especially the first few ones are always nerve racking.
You don't have to fear a break up or bullying; the top sow may throw her weight around a bit, but that should die down soon and you know that even your bottom girl is now a happy part of the family.
Bonding, especially the first few ones are always nerve racking.
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
Hi @Wiebke
Yes, Ginger is certainly throwing her weight a bit
. She's so bossy.Right, I shall move them very shortly... a cage has been clean and ready for well over a week now. I'll keep an eye on them as I clean the remaining guys x
Thank you
I agree that they are definitely cage ready now.
Well done x
Well done x
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
Thank you!
Yay me! First happy ending ... well I've just seen Ginger come over to Penelope and poke her again
But this is a part of her 'throwing her weight about I guess'....
All part of the process. It will all settle down.
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
The sooner the better - the bossy minx..
Oh one more thing: shall i move them without any hideys and just keep the stools or am I ok to put tunnels in etc... the cage is a bit smaller than the pen so I'm not sure if I should put any hideys in or just leave it for now?
I would move in the stools you've been using in the pen in place of hideys. Until you are sure there are no issues make sure everything has 2 exits.
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
Cool, will do that... I was thinking about giving them all a quick bath as I got some gorgeous guineas stuff... I also need to trim their nails and I wondered if I can do it before putting them to their cage..
It would perhaps be like an addict all bonding experience? They are all really good with baths and nail trimming and they are a tad scruffy as didn't bathe them for about 5-6 months ... yay or nay?
Not sure. Personally I'd leave them and do them in a week or so. But that's just gut feeling no science behind it!
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
Ok. I am also listening to my gut over the aesthetics and will leave it for another week. Will trim their nails quickly tho as man alive they're long
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP.
Now I need to find a baby sow for my lonely sausage Presley. He's such a social, talkative little thing and now he's all alone
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
Hi @VickiATHANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP.
Now I need to find a baby sow for my lonely sausage Presley. He's such a social, talkative little thing and now he's all alone
I attached a photo I took after the new trio moved into their cage.
Ginger is still throwing her weight around and it does worry me when she's directly in Penelope's face when Penelope is in the corner eating hay etc... she( Ginger) freezes kinda pointing at Penelope like hunting dog almost and then either chases her or or walks away swinging her chubby bum.
I hope is normal - I've never reached this stage in bonding so all new. X
They all look very relaxed in each other's company.
Please just make sure that there is more than one place where food, water and hay can be eaten so that Ginger can't hog it all.
Please just make sure that there is more than one place where food, water and hay can be eaten so that Ginger can't hog it all.
oxtinamona
Junior Guinea Pig
They have 3 hay feeders and 3 water bottles
the other two are on the other end of the cage . I haven't put any hideys in as of yet just in case. All 3 are all quite confident pigs and aren't scared to sleep out on liners or pads, or in the littler trays, as they love the finacard bedding we put three. They also have 3 litter trays and 3 pads. Ginger will hog whatever appears busy at the time. She wants it all by the looks of things- Status