• Discussions taking place within this forum are intended for the purpose of assisting you in discussing options with your vet. Any other use of advice given here is done so at your risk, is solely your responsibility and not that of this forum or its owner. Before posting it is your responsibility you abide by this Statement

Blood stained urine and weight loss

G&C said:
just got back, they did X-ray said there was a lot of sludge and a couple of mm size stones -not something they would operate on. They did a wash out of his bladder too and got rid of some more sludge. They insisted he should only have 0.16ml once a day of loxicom due to effect on his kidneys. Also suggested I reduce his greens which I don’t agree with a suggested I give a cranberry once a day and some orange 🤦‍♀️ I asked about low calcium food and he said something about oxylate which is the problem.
the worst part is I weighed him and he’s 878g, could that be due to all the sludge they’ve removed? we’re continuing the bay tril too till check up next week.
Click to expand...

Can you get to another vet?
The effects on their kidneys is not the same as in other animals and piggies can definitely take higher doses of pain meds then you are being told.
Hmm, having a wet diet keeps their bladder flushed through so reducing greens wouldn’t be a good idea, just ensuring he has low calcium veggies is a good idea. You don’t want to be giving cranberry or calcium, the sugars will cause problems.
The calcium process is a complicated one, oxalates are part of the issue but as it’s complicated all we can do as owners is feed a limited amount of pellets (aiming for grain free, low calcium), filter drinking water (water and pellets contributing most calcium to the diet), and keep their veggies low in calcium
 
Piggies&buns said:
Can you get to another vet?
The effects on their kidneys is not the same as in other animals and piggies can definitely take higher doses of pain meds then you are being told.
Hmm, having a wet diet keeps their bladder flushed through so reducing greens wouldn’t be a good idea, just ensuring he has low calcium veggies is a good idea. You don’t want to be giving cranberry or calcium, the sugars will cause problems.
The calcium process is a complicated one, oxalates are part of the issue but as it’s complicated all we can do as owners is feed a limited amount of pellets (aiming for grain free, low calcium), filter drinking water (water and pellets contributing most calcium to the diet), and keep their veggies low in calcium
Click to expand...
Thank you so much, I’ve been having a look online, oxbow do some baked treats with cranberry would you recommend them? Or the urinary support ‘treats’ at all?
his checkup is Friday can I take him somewhere else for that? They were talking about doing another wash out possibly under anaesthetic which I’m not keen on. And if I did go somewhere else would they share his X-ray with them or would he have to have it all again. £180 it cost me yesterday.
 
G&C said:
Thank you so much, I’ve been having a look online, oxbow do some baked treats with cranberry would you recommend them? Or the urinary support ‘treats’ at all?
his checkup is Friday can I take him somewhere else for that? They were talking about doing another wash out possibly under anaesthetic which I’m not keen on. And if I did go somewhere else would they share his X-ray with them or would he have to have it all again. £180 it cost me yesterday.
Click to expand...

I've not used any of the Oxbow support products, although I dont think there is any harm in using the urinary support 'cookies'. Diet is your main factor to look at though going forward. Although it won't help the current issues.
If you aren't happy or confident with the knowledge of your vet, then you are absolutely within your rights to find a new vet. I believe you can request the information be sent to a new vet.
 
I think the cost shouldn’t be the deciding factor. You want a vet who’s experienced, not telling you to stop greens and give him cranberry juice. Have a look on the vet locator. Good luck, I hope he’s sorted soon.
Vet Locator
 
You can ask for a second opinion elsewhere and have his records and X-rays sent to the new vet for review. I agree that the dose of metacam is very low. I hope he is doing ok after his flush.
Did they suggest cystease? That can be good at helping line the walls of the bladder.
Filtering the water and giving low calcium veggies, and giving limited amounts of grain free pellets are about as much as we can do to help bladder piggies.
 
VickiA said:
You can ask for a second opinion elsewhere and have his records and X-rays sent to the new vet for review. I agree that the dose of metacam is very low. I hope he is doing ok after his flush.
Did they suggest cystease? That can be good at helping line the walls of the bladder.
Filtering the water and giving low calcium veggies, and giving limited amounts of grain free pellets are about as much as we can do to help bladder piggies.
Click to expand...
Thank you everyone, he’s not doing great after the wash out, I’m wondering if he actually did it as I’ve not been charged for it. No he didn’t recommend cystease or anything useful in my opinion - only said for a check up next Friday with a view to give him a anaesthetic and do a wash out of his bladder. -which I’m not happy for them to do as I’m not convinced they know what they are doing. Would just starting cystease be enough or does he need a washout (with a proper vet)? And Would it be ok to start cystease without a vet recommending and can I start it now (when I get some) while he’s on antibiotics and the measly amount of painkiller?
 
He’s peeing blood again this morning and weight is dropping off. I think we are loosing this battle 😢
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m sorry to hear that. Any luck in finding another vet?
Click to expand...
Yeah it’s just what can they do? The last one got a urine sample but threw it away, he thought I didn’t want one sending (I explained I don’t want him to have anaesthetic unless absolutely necessary). He’s been on antibiotics for two weeks now. Also he wouldn’t increase his pain relief, I suppose another vet may agree to do this. I’m thinking the kindest thing to do is pts. Love my boy to bits.
 
G&C said:
Yeah it’s just what can they do? The last one got a urine sample but threw it away, he thought I didn’t want one sending (I explained I don’t want him to have anaesthetic unless absolutely necessary). He’s been on antibiotics for two weeks now. Also he wouldn’t increase his pain relief, I suppose another vet may agree to do this. I’m thinking the kindest thing to do is pts. Love my boy to bits.
Click to expand...

I would still speak to a different vet before considering PTS. It may be that he needs a different antibiotic - baytril is the go to antibiotic in a lot cases but there are other options which may be more appropriate. Of course you need to be guided by the vet, but I would have the conversation with a different vet about another antibiotic, higher dose pain meds etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: G&C
I agree with @Piggies&buns your boy needs a piggy savvy vet for a higher Metacam dose and a different anti biotic. I am treating two boars with blood in their urine at the moment both have urine infections, one finishes his ABs today. I also have one who occasionally suffers from sludge after stone removal last year. The sludge is now managed without the need for an operation. Depending on the reason for the blood (which a good vet would find out) with the correct pain management and treatment there is no reason to PTS.
Sending you and your boy my very best wishes, looking after a sick piggy is exhausting.
 
piggieminder said:
I agree with @Piggies&buns your boy needs a piggy savvy vet for a higher Metacam dose and a different anti biotic. I am treating two boars with blood in their urine at the moment both have urine infections, one finishes his ABs today. I also have one who occasionally suffers from sludge after stone removal last year. The sludge is now managed without the need for an operation. Depending on the reason for the blood (which a good vet would find out) with the correct pain management and treatment there is no reason to PTS.
Sending you and your boy my very best wishes, looking after a sick piggy is exhausting.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much, I’m also heavily pregnant with a toddler too so yes I’m quite tired! I’ve got an appointment at 4pm today with a ‘proper vet’ and they are going to contact the other one to get the images and notes. How do you manage the sludge? I’ve done all the recommendations so far (filtered water, small amount of pellets low calcium veg) but seen no improvement. -I’m guessing he’s in agony which is why the weight is just falling off him as he seems to just sit in his bedroom all day apart from when the veg is delivered -he does come out and eat it and I’m feeding him emeraid sustain he has between 80-100ml a day. I can’t do it over night, so feel like I’m letting him down as all the feeding during the day just drops off him By the morning. I feel like I’m being cruel by not giving him adequate pain relief. Would you suggest critical care feed instead of the sustain stuff? -as he’s not ‘sustaining‘ his weight.
 
Diet changes help going forward but not for what is already there.

You are not letting him down, please don’t think you are. You are getting a good amount of syringe feed into him - you need to sleep too, so you cant feed overnight. What time do you give him his last feed at night and what time does he get his first feed in the morning? How much weight is he losing each day?

Its a shame the vet you’ve seen isn’t willing to increase his pain meds, but that’s not on you. You’re getting him to another vet who will hopefully be able to help.

You can use Emeraid or Oxbow Critical Care - some piggies prefer the taste of one over the other but it doesn’t sound as if it’s a problem on that front, he is taking it willingly I assume?

Do let us know how things go with the vet this afternoon
 
Piggies&buns said:
Diet changes help going forward but not for what is already there.

You are not letting him down, please don’t think you are. You are getting a good amount of syringe feed into him - you need to sleep too, so you cant feed overnight. What time do you give him his last feed at night and what time does he get his first feed in the morning? How much weight is he losing each day?

Its a shame the vet you’ve seen isn’t willing to increase his pain meds, but that’s not on you. You’re getting him to another vet who will hopefully be able to help.

You can use Emeraid or Oxbow Critical Care - some piggies prefer the taste of one over the other but it doesn’t sound as if it’s a problem on that front, he is taking it willingly I assume?

Do let us know how things go with the vet this afternoon
Click to expand...
He’s got no probs with the syringe feeding he even try’s to grab the syringe with his teeth when I give him water or pro c. I give the last one at 10-11pm and first one at 6-7am. So it’s 8 hours max. with the emeraid it says on the pack give 25-30ml 3-4 times a day (ignoring the 3-4 times a day bit) I can only get 20ml into him at a time as he does get sick of it and start getting really annoyed. But his appetite hasn’t been as good since Friday really.

his last weights: Friday 875g - after 4 hours left at that vets, -they didn’t feed him and squeezed lots of sludge out of him I thought the weight loss was due to removal of all this sludge.
sat: 983g
Sun: 978g
Mon: missed a weight I was at work and my partner didn’t do it, he missed feeds from 6.30am till 5pm as was out all day.
Tues (yesterday): 955g.
Today: 953g
 
Those feed times look fine - we would say to feed at around 11pm and then again 6/7am so you can also get some rest.

So hes not losing lots at a time each morning - a few grams here and there isnt concerning on its own, its not as if he is dropping at least 50g in a 24 hour period. He has lost a lot from his starting weight of 1200g though.
 
It’s not good news I’m devastated to say. The vet examined him, and emptied his bladder, he had a small sperm rod but didn’t think that was the issue causing him to retain his urine, she suspects a blockage in the inglenook but also possible pyelonephritis. -to diagnose this/take a good look at him would need further X-ray of the kidneys and bloods and then a prolonged hospital stay where they would give him fluids and treatment etc. she stressed that he would probably not recover given the amount of weight he’s lost/loosing. she prescribed the dogs strength of loxicom 0.2ml twice a day, I’ve just given him some and some coriander sprigs and he’s back with his bro. Had a little cuddle and a cry with him. Going to talk things over with the other half tonight 😢😢
 
She also tested his urine, there was blood present but also it was quite dilute which is why she unspectacular pyelonephritis.
 
G&C said:
She also tested his urine, there was blood present but also it was quite dilute which is why she unspectacular pyelonephritis.
Click to expand...
G&C said:
She also tested his urine, there was blood present but also it was quite dilute which is why she unspectacular pyelonephritis.
Click to expand...
Suspects sorry For the typo.
 
I’m sorry that’s not the news you were hoping for. I am sure whatever decision you come to will be the right one. Please don’t second guess yourself, you have done all you possibly can. Hugs.
 
I am sorry to hear your news. Whatever you decide to do it will be the right thing for you and your boy.
Sending you hugs, I know how hard a decision it is. I have had to make it 3 times now because of stones and have gone different ways each time, depending on the circumstances.
 
Hi everyone, we have still not made a decision but I wanted to update you on why.

positives: he’s eating all his veg up and drinking, takes his painkiller and herbs out of my hands. His pain seems really well controlled. He’s warm to touch when I have hold of him.his poo is normal.
negatives: he’s not passing urine very well, it’s dribbling out in little bits. Although his bottom/tummy isn’t wet So he’s not sitting in it in pain. His bladder feels full and this concerns me. i remember seeing the last vet ‘help’ him empty and wondered if I should do this? I have no idea what I’m doing though. When she did it he wasn’t uncomfortable at all. I don’t really know where or how hard to press and don’t want to cause him damage.

ive stopped giving the baytril, syringe feeding recovery food and weighing him. The weights I’ve stopped as it’s a false positive as I’m weighing his full bladder. He’s maintained his weight of 2 weeks ago pretty much (he was 910g then on Wednesday after she emptied his bladder he was 920g). The feeding I’ve stopped as he didn’t exactly seem to love it.
 
I wouldn’t try emptying his bladder yourself especially if you don’t know what you’re doing as you could hurt him.

I would perhaps phone the vets and ask for advise. @Little Ones piggy was struggling to empty his bladder so the vet did it.

It’s good that he’s eating and maintaining weight x
 
:agr: You should perhaps get him to the vet so they can do it.
 
As mentioned above, we’ve experienced something similar. Little started being a bit lethargic. Not eating, not drinking, not moving much. When I would pick him up, the pressure of that made dribbles of pee come out. Our local exotic vet couldn’t ‘find’ anything wrong. Anyway, we took him to see Simon the next day or so who said Little was holding in his pee, he wasn’t sure why he was doing it. Once Simon emptied his bladder by applying pressure in the right place, Little began peeing normally again. We carried on giving metacam for a while in case there was some pain that made him stop peeing. Simon said this isn’t uncommon in piggies who have recently had anaesthetic, but he wasn’t sure why Little was doing it.
Definitely get it emptied by an exotic vet as soon as you can. Simon said to us that if Little continued to hold it in, to take him daily to a local vet for it to be emptied until he began to pee for himself again. Luckily, it didn’t come to that for us!
 
Hi, Gizmo is doing a lot better, he’s passing urine on his own and he’s eating (like a horse) and drinking. His pain has reduced massively so I have reverted back to the cat strength of loxicom 0.16ml twice a day. -should I stop it all together and see how he goes? His weight remains the same (920g). How can I increase his weight?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top