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Bladder sludge procedure aftermath

Teema

Teema

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
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Location
Ayrshire
Hi everybody, me once again I’m so sorry to be a pest.
It has now been a few days since my rescue girl, Pipsqueak had a procedure with a catheter, sedation and Ketmine to remove bladder sludge (the vet described as really chunky and gritty and was even able to give us a little tube with some pieces in it that to me were stone like although vet confirmed there were actually no stones). She definitely seems a little brighter and happier, she wheeks for food now which she never used to and is quite hungry and seems to be enjoying her snacks and her cagemates company. However, she spent the whole weekend extremely exhausted, she slept on a blanket on my lap for around 2-3 hours, eyes completely shut and dead to the world. Her poos were a funny shape (possibly just due to Baytril) and she wasn’t peeing that much, just little dribbles, the smell is strong but now it just smells like ordinary strong urine rather than that awful, really disgusting smell from before.
She is sitting with me just now having some pepper and she went to go to the toilet, she did it again, jumped up, screeched in pain, and seemed to really struggle to pass urine/poo. Is this normal straight after this procedure? Is it just pain from having the catheter etc, surely there is no way the sludge has returned after it has all been cleared days ago along with the chunkier bits. Post op exam is on Wednesday, we are continuing with Metacam and Baytril right now. She passed a little amount of blood on Sunday too, it looked old though as it was more brownish red than fresh bright red. Thanks!
 

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Teema said:
Hi everybody, me once again I’m so sorry to be a pest.
It has now been a few days since my rescue girl, Pipsqueak had a procedure with a catheter, sedation and Ketmine to remove bladder sludge (the vet described as really chunky and gritty and was even able to give us a little tube with some pieces in it that to me were stone like although vet confirmed there were actually no stones). She definitely seems a little brighter and happier, she wheeks for food now which she never used to and is quite hungry and seems to be enjoying her snacks and her cagemates company. However, she spent the whole weekend extremely exhausted, she slept on a blanket on my lap for around 2-3 hours, eyes completely shut and dead to the world. Her poos were a funny shape (possibly just due to Baytril) and she wasn’t peeing that much, just little dribbles, the smell is strong but now it just smells like ordinary strong urine rather than that awful, really disgusting smell from before.
She is sitting with me just now having some pepper and she went to go to the toilet, she did it again, jumped up, screeched in pain, and seemed to really struggle to pass urine/poo. Is this normal straight after this procedure? Is it just pain from having the catheter etc, surely there is no way the sludge has returned after it has all been cleared days ago along with the chunkier bits. Post op exam is on Wednesday, we are continuing with Metacam and Baytril right now. She passed a little amount of blood on Sunday too, it looked old though as it was more brownish red than fresh bright red. Thanks!
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Hi

This is not normal and should be seen as soon as possible. Has the bladder been opened to remove tightly packed crystals or just flushed? It sounds like there could be a blockage or the urine has been possibly backed up into the kidneys.

Please contact your vet clinic promptly as an emergency and step in with syringe feeding support. Keep in mind that over three quarters of what piggy eats in a day is hay, which you cannot measure by eye. Veg, pellets and any treats all together just replace the supplementary role of wild forage (ca. 20-25%).
Our guide is very comprehensive and very practical with lots of how-to tips: All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

PS: The funny poos and pees in the wake of an operation reflect the lack of food and chemicals and are normal. Poos are usually running 1-2 days behind any event since it takes that long to pass the digestive tract.

Fingers firmly crossed!
 
Hi Wiebke! Oh god this is really worrying, she’s eating and drinking normally, has a lot more energy than usual and just appears so much happier and healthier than prior to the procedure!? The vet said it was all flushed out and there was a lot in there so it took a long time. She showed me before and after x-rays could clearly see the difference. We took her in at 8.45am and chatted to the vet for a while, then she got x-rays etc, and we were able to collect her at 2.30pm (think the procedure was all finished at 1pm). Poos looking a bit more normal today maybe a little on the small side.
Do you think the exhaustion was normal? She seems more herself now, she has definitely perked up, before the procedure you could tell she was just miserable and in pain was heartbreaking.
Will get vet appt booked today. Thankyou.
 
Teema said:
Hi Wiebke! Oh god this is really worrying, she’s eating and drinking normally, has a lot more energy than usual and just appears so much happier and healthier than prior to the procedure!? The vet said it was all flushed out and there was a lot in there so it took a long time. She showed me before and after x-rays could clearly see the difference. We took her in at 8.45am and chatted to the vet for a while, then she got x-rays etc, and we were able to collect her at 2.30pm (think the procedure was all finished at 1pm). Poos looking a bit more normal today maybe a little on the small side.
Do you think the exhaustion was normal? She seems more herself now, she has definitely perked up, before the procedure you could tell she was just miserable and in pain was heartbreaking.
Will get vet appt booked today. Thankyou.
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OK - Your first post sounded a lot more dramatic and I got a bit cofused about the timing of it all.

Please have her checked promptly if the discomfort from peeing is getting worse (potentially more crystals passing down from the kidneys or a potential secondary infection from bladder trauma/damage), if she continues to be exhausted a week after the op or if she takes a sudden downturn.

Are you weighing her daily to check her food intake?
 
No problem Wiebke sorry for the confusion!
- Friday she had the procedure (sedation, xray, ketamine, flushing bladder)
- Saturday she was still really tired and a bit ‘high’ (wobbling from the ket), but eating, drinking, pooing and I think peeing normally? But this could have been missed as perhaps she wasn’t in pain due to all the drugs still in her system. She slept most of the day but eager to eat her veggies and hay and water. We gave her a bit of critical care which she seemed to love but stopped as to be totally honest she was eating normally and I didn’t want to continually cause her distress with syringe feeding etc - she was eating hay, veg, dry food
- Sunday she seemed okay, drugs definitely worn off, but this is when we noticed the dark brown/red urine but to be honest we assumed this was just from the invasive nature of the catheter she had on Friday
- Monday we noticed the squealing again and straining and dribbly urine, still eating and drinking normally although withdrawn

And now we are here, Tuesday. I am just going to the vet right now as they want to see her as quickly as possible but I am just going to have to sit and wait until they have a space as it is an emergency and they are completely full today, hopefully won’t be too long for her

Thankyou for your advice so far. Hopefully vet can fix things. We haven’t weighed, on Friday the vet said she had put a little weight on which was wonderful but she has been a scrawny wee thing since we had her and we have put it down to these issues, will get an accurate weight at the vet today. Thankyou💖 x
 
Hi folks, back from the vet. Our vet isn’t too worried about the blood as she thinks this was from the catheter (it was a really long and slow process on Friday and it is possible this has irritated her a bit) and there has been no blood since. We have been given Buprenorphine to try for some pain relief, 3 times a day, and are still continuing with the Baytril. Hopefully things will improve from here, our vet gave her a good exam (and a cuddle and a kiss lol!) and is confident the bladder is completely cleared.
Since getting home Pip has stuffed her face with hay, pepper and pebbles (this is just what we call dry food) and has been drinking water too but I am going to continue syringing water just to be sure.
I am really scared that if this doesn’t work, I don’t know where we go from here, she is precious to me.
 
PS this is a completely new drug to me, I have never had to use it for my piggies. Any thing to be aware of? Our vet said it can make them a bit woozy/high. I’m wondering it it is a similar idea to a human’s cocodomal? It is opioid based she told me. Just a bit nervous I know I would really freak out if Pip became u responsive or weird on a medication so just want to be prepared for side effects. Thanks ! It will be a 0.2ml dose three times a day. X
 
I’m glad your vet isn’t too worried about her.

If you search for Buprenorphine in the search bar a few threads come up. It is a strong drug. I’ve thankfully not had to use it.

Good luck.
 
Update…Pip has done a normal pee! She seems okay so far on the Buprenorphine, gave her critical care at the same time just as a precaution, she is currently a little stoned but nothing too scary, just fluffed up but seems relaxed.
 
Do hope the drugs help Pip. It’s sounding positive. Bertie had buprenorphine during an in-patient treatment so I don’t know the exact dose but he was quite lethargic and woozy for a few days. The vet had said 24-48 hours but it was longer than this. I gave him critical care top ups until he got his mojo back. Hope Pip continues to perk up.
 
Aw thanks so much Bertie & Jelly. My vet actually told me the same thing today that part of Pip’s sedation on Friday included some of the Bupre. Thanks for sharing your tips, I think we will continue doing the critical care as you did just to keep on top of it. She is munching her away on her hay at the moment, seems pretty chill. She’s a strong wee thing she seems to react quite well to all drugs and stressful situations, just hope it keeps, poor Pipsqueak. Thankyou all for your kindness x
 
Feeling stressed.
Sorry to be a bother again on here, I’m not sure if I am looking for advice or just needing to vent. Pipsqueak just doesn’t seem to be deteriorating or improving. It feels like she is just getting by, she’s eating and drinking but only if we encourage her, she is eating some hay, water, veg and dry food. We are giving her critical care which she seems to enjoy as well as syringing water and probiotics. She is still on the Metacam, Baytril and Buprenorphine. She seems tired and withdrawn but not overly unwell, funny shaped poos but still reduced urine (unless we are just missing this and she has done a normal pee in her cage but when sitting on us with a blanket it is definitely reduced). She went to town on her water bottle earlier and was rummaging in the pebble bowl (although we aren’t topping it up as have cut back on these due to the sludge issue). She seemed to enjoy a little bit of spinach and apple as a wee treat. (I am aware that spinach needs to be limited due to sludge/stones, this was just a couple of leaves for a treat).
I believe the Buprenorphine is working in terms of a painkiller, there has been no squealing when doing the toilet, and only this evening have we noticed the tiniest wobble in her back legs, as expected because of the Bupre (as well as being extremely clingy with us, diving into our arms when syringing when normally she squirms away!).
Just feel a bit lost, scared and worried. This is all so exhausting I can’t begin to imagine how she feels, I just hope the painkillers are making this easy for her and she isn’t feeling the stress of it all. I feel like we are just constantly shoving syringes into her, it feels wrong somehow. I just want her to be better. I think we are going to have to return to the vet for the third time this week if there is no improvement again by Friday.
Quick question, is there any chance that we could be over filling her tummy? I am so conscious and worried about all that we are giving her. Here she is with her critical care moustache! Thanks everybody for your support so far x
 

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You are definitely not being a pain. I understand how stressful it is feeding a poorly piggy. I had to do it for about 8 weeks once. 5 times a day. It’s natural to want an improvement immediately but it just doesn’t happen. You are keeping her stable until she’s feeling well enough to eat enough for herself. You are doing a great job. She’s probably sleepy from the pain meds or lost her appetite due to the ABs. I don’t think you can overfeed them. I think about 15ml was the average I ever got in my Pepper in one sitting. You can usually tell they’ve had enough as they start to get more annoyed. Get in as much as you can. I usually find after a syringe feed they are more willing to eat some hay on their own. So I put a pile of hay in front of them afterwards.
 
Aw thanks so much weepweeps, this forum is just the best🥺 that sounds really stressful bless you hope it all worked out for Pepper in the end after the 8 weeks? (i just love that name, it was almost the name for our newest rescue Picnic! Decided on Picnic because she ain’t no picnic!)
Yeah we noticed this actually after we’ve been syringe feeding when she goes back into her cage she wants to eat her hay! I wonder if we need to up the feeding then because tbh we have only gave her about 5ml in total today? Was scared to cause her stress and overfeed her especially as she is actually eating some of her normal food/veg independently. Will maybe try a bit more then plop her into a nice big fresh pile of hay. She lays in her hay bag all day long (I’m sure her two sisters love having to eat hay out from under her butt!) so not sure if she is doing much eating in there or if she is just doing it to hide.
Thanks so much for your reassuring words, sometimes you just need another piggie owner to say ‘yes you are doing the right thing, keep going!’. Thankyou 💖 xo
 
Ugh! To add insult to injury, we had one sachet of critical care left which is now finished. We had an opened bag of the Oxbow Anise Flavour Critical Care which is basically full and the expiry date was December - any idea if this is still good to use? It’s all we have now until we can get another order from Amazon or check Pets at Home tomorrow.
 
The only way you can ensure you have the syringe feeding amount right is with the essential daily weight checks each morning.

The amount you syringe feed each day depends entirely on what those daily weight checks tell you and links in with independent hay intake - the less they eat for themselves the more syringe feeding you need to give. 60ml is around the minimum but could be as much as 100ml. Equally if they are eating plenty of hay for themselves and recovering they may just need a bit of a top up a couple of times a day.
It’s so important you do the weight checks yourself each morning and don’t just rely on vet appointments for weights.
 
I agree this forum is amazing. ❤️

Pepper recovered from his abscess. But I have been feeding him again as he’s recovering from a URI.

So every morning first thing you have to weigh them. If they’ve lost weight overnight then you feed more than the day before.

I found the longer you have to syringe feed the easier it gets. They realise it’s ok. Have you got someone to hold them for you as you feed?

Vets sell critical care. You could get some from them. It’s probably more expensive than amazon though. Or you could use their pellets soaked with water.
 
I agree - use mushed pellets until you can get more CC or speak to your vet.
I wouldn’t use one which is past its date as the nutrients probably won’t be as good
 
I am sorry you are feeling so stressed. It's difficult looking after a sick piggy especially if you are doing it for the first time and aren't sure what to expect. You are doing great for your girl, she's lucky to have you fighting for her.
Baytril can affect their appetite. I think every piggy I've had it on has needed syringe feeding. Are you giving probiotics, they really help. I give them for 2 weeks after the ABs are finished as well as during to help rebalance the guts. All about probiotics in the syringe feeding guide that was linked in a post above.
I've had piggies on Buprenorphine it can make them very sleepy, some react to it worse than others, hopefully she can come off it soon and just have the Metacam while she recovers.
 
Will Pip take the critical care from a plate or spoon? I know when they are woozy that they may not show any interest but it’s also worth a try.
 
Aw thanks everybody💖
Yes we have been weighing, she had actually put a little weight on prior to the procedure but has since lost a little bit, I think it is just due to reduced appetite and a little stress.
Managed to get some critical care from our vet, we had this from them before was just a wee sachet but better than nothing, can’t seem to get any next day from Amazon! So at least that will do us until the Amazon delivery arrives, cannot believe how short that expiry date is! And yeah she is on probiotics too, she seems to quite like the wee syringe of water with this in it, it’s in the water bottle too.
She did the absolute craziest poo this morning, super long and thin never seen anything like it, but I have read this is a side effect the buprenorphine.
Again today not much improvement but also doesn’t seem any worse. She’s managed quite a bit of lettuce, some cucumber and a wee nibble of carrot today, she had a spinach leaf too, not keen to keep giving her this though due to the bladder problems but just wanted to test if she would actually eat it as she loves spinach so much.
Thanks again everybody for the support and advice xx
 
Aw thanks Bertie and Jelly! She manages okay with the syringe to be fair, she was yanking it off me last night to get more! She couldn’t really get to grips witn the teaspoon and it went everywhere! Her cagemates were pretty quick to clean that off her wee face!
 
Also I put the probiotics in the recovery food. It saves giving them something else by syringe.

It’s not recommended to put anything in their water as it may reduce water intake.

I use this

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Peppers poops have become amazing since he’s been eating pellet mush with pro c in it. 👍🏻
 
Hi again everyone.
This morning we have woke up and there appears to be quite a bit of fresh bright blood in the girls shavings, clearly from Pipsqueak, it’s on the blanket I am currently holding her in. I haven’t given her any of her medicine this morning, I don’t want to make things any worse before we head to the vet this morning.
This isn’t looking good is it? She is still eating and drinking. I don’t want to get her put to sleep if there is any slight chance there is something we can do to save her, just looking for any experience or advice on what to say to the vet this morning, our pig savvy vet isn’t working today I don’t think, we are really scared, I just want what is best for her. She was drinking her water and managed spinach again (I know not great but it was just one leaf to see if she was interested in food, she isn’t interested in carrot, pepper or cucumber at the moment). Thanks guys. X
 
I'm sorry to hear that.

I really would give her the medications - she needs the pain meds.

Has she been syringe fed this morning?

Do you have any lettuce? That would be better than giving her spinach.
 
She has lost interest in her lettuce as well unfortunately, the little bit of spinach was only to see if she still had appetite, definitely not going to be an ongoing thing because I think this is what triggered the whole issue (she is a rescue piggie and sadly was constantly fed kale before she came to us). It is terrifying to see this amount of blood and it is so fresh, had a quick check incase it was a cut or a wound anywhere but definitely not.
Thanks so much piggies & buns. Will give her her buprenorphine just now then. The vet mentioned cysitis which would explain a little blood in the urine I think, but this is almost like what you would expect from a wound or almost like a human’s period? It’s terrible, I feel like a total failure, after all the trauma of what she went through last week to remove the sludge and now we are in a place worse than ever before.
 
You are not a failure, please dont think you are. You are doing your absolute best for her.
What time is she seeing the vet?
 
Oh no I’m so sorry to hear this. You are doing everything you can. See what the vet says. You said she’s still eating and drinking so that’s a good sign she hasn’t given up. Good luck at the vets. 🤞🏻
 
The vet could only give us 4pm earliest, seems forever away, but thankfully it is with our pig savvy vet, she’s been really great. I’ve gave Pip her medicine this morning (Baytril course is finished so just painkillers now, Bupre and Metacam) and thankfully she still doesn’t seem to be showing signs of pain, but she is still straining to pass. Will let her painkillers kick in and relax her a little then try her with some critical care in an hour. Thanks guys, sorry I have been endless on this forum recently, I just feel an even bigger sense of responsibility because she is a rescue, I feel like it was my job to take her out of a poor environment and make life better for her and it hasn’t really gone that way, it sucks when my other piggies are fit and healthy, even my most senior girl Penny, 7 years old, is in great condition compared to Pipsqueak.

To top it off, the naughtiest cagemate in the world, Picnic, was limping yesterday. I think she’s twisted her foot chasing Penny, gave her a little Metacam and limp seems to have gone away overnight, hopefully doesn’t come back. Thankfully these two are very well behaved with poorly Pip, cuddly with her and grooming her gently and tend to leave her to rest.

Thanks everybody 💖
 
Remember that they live in the now. She has loving companions who are looking after her as well as you.
Don't blame yourself or apologise for the posts. The detailed posts on the journey of a poorly piggy can positively effect the care of another, especially with an inexperienced owner looking for advice.
Fingers crossed for you at the vets later.
 
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