Best option?

piggl

piggl

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I have 2 boars, separated due to medical issues which is a decision I made with the understanding that things may not work out afterwards, and unfortunately this is what happened.

I put them together and they had a few very tense days of nipping and chasing until eventually they ended up in a full on fight, causing them to be removed from each other permanently.
Please be aware they live outdoors in a hutch so living side by side is not an option.

My mum keeps asking me to put them together again, but i’m not going to.
Separate but not both boys managed to escape their cages last night (I don’t know how or why they planned this, as they have been living in this temporary cage for months and never have done this before), and although luckily there were no major fights there was again signs of nipping and chasing from Remi.

Remi is a 7 month old boar who bonded with Reggie as a baby. Things seemed to be going fine until they got separated. Some of the behaviour experts on the forum believe that Remi was the dominant piggy, but Reggie couldn’t quite accept that. I noticed that Remi is very pushy, nipping at Reggie, chasing him and not allowing him to do anything Remi suddenly decides he wants.
Reggie is a 1 year old boar who also came to us as a baby but was bonded with my older boar Winston, who has now passed. There was a very obvious demeanour change when he was put with Remi. He was exceptionally humpy and excitable before but when put with Remi everything seemed to calm down majorly. My mum is “theorising” that Remi was bullying him but I don’t believe this is what was happening. Again people on the forum believe he just settled down into his role as the uncle, and he still has a excitable view on life.

Now to the present, this leaves me with 3 options.
I travel 2 hours to the nearest rescue to conduct boar dating. I have a couple questions about this. 1) Can they be travelled in a small carrier for 2 hours after their initial bonding. Feels like a recipe for disaster. 2) This is more of an issue and that is that there is no guarantee they will get on with the piggy, initially and once they come home to finish the next two weeks of establishing a hierarchy.

Option 2 is to get two babies from pets at home. Much quicker as the nearest one is 10 minutes away, and also a better chance of the initial bonding going well due to the fact they put companionship over hierarchy.
Issues with this is 1) Starting the piggy cycle from the start 2) Putting money towards something I don’t support and 3) It’s just not the way I want to do it.

Option 3 is neuter both boys, and put them with ladies. This is something I have no experience with but I do have a couple questions/thoughts.
1) Can two pairs of one boy one girl go side by side in a run? 2) I am a reluctant to do any procedures after the many issues with Remis abscess removal. We visited the vets 15 times in three weeks, dealt with major swelling and infection. 3) Expensive option, but I can afford it.
And the other issue is that this isn’t an 100% way of getting them bonded. Pairings can still not get on, it depends on the pigs.

Another kind of option would be conduct either one or two, and then do option 3 if one or both pigs fail to bond.

I just feel lost. I don’t really know what to do so would really appreciate any feedback.
And apologise for the massive message, and thank you for taking the time to read it and/or reply <3
 
I’m sorry you are in this situation.

It would not be a good idea for two piggies newly met to travel in a small carrier together. Generally you meet and date, then separate to travel and then put them back on neutral territory to continue bonding for several more hours after you get home. They won’t have been together long enough during the date to be secure to be together to travel.

Neutering and bonding each with a female would be the safest option. A mixed sex pair has a much better chance of working out long term but it does still come down to compatibility.

Yes two mixed sex pairs can live/go in runs happily side by side
 
And what is the chances with 2 babies?
Could Remi try and overpower and nip the baby aswell?
 
I agree you would need to bring them back from the rescue in separate carriers. Even when travelling with well bonded pairs in one carrier I take a spare carrier or box just in case.
There is no guarantee a baby bond will work long term. It's a good chance they will bond in the first instance but as the baby gets into it's teens it can try to take over dominance resulting in a possible fight, especially if the older boar is very dominant. Most pairs make it but no one can tell you it will definitely work. I've had pairs break down in this way several times.
In your shoes I'd try to find a way to put two hutches side by side rather than get any more piggies. Taking a side panel off of each hutch and fixing wire mesh sides would give them interaction or find a way to put two hutches partly front on. I say this from experience of pairs falling out and ending up with 6 guinea pigs, 4 of which are singles!
 
piggieminder said:
I agree you would need to bring them back from the rescue in separate carriers. Even when travelling with well bonded pairs in one carrier I take a spare carrier or box just in case.
There is no guarantee a baby bond will work long term. It's a good chance they will bond in the first instance but as the baby gets into it's teens it can try to take over dominance resulting in a possible fight, especially if the older boar is very dominant. Most pairs make it but no one can tell you it will definitely work. I've had pairs break down in this way several times.
In your shoes I'd try to find a way to put two hutches side by side rather than get any more piggies. Taking a side panel off of each hutch and fixing wire mesh sides would give them interaction or find a way to put two hutches partly front on. I say this from experience of pairs falling out and ending up with 6 guinea pigs, 4 of which are singles!
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And do you think your singles are happy enough my single who had to be alone following an operation seems desperate to go in to the others but I'm worried he might get hurt x
 
CTWC said:
And do you think your singles are happy enough my single who had to be alone following an operation seems desperate to go in to the others but I'm worried he might get hurt x
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The chances of your boar trio being ok are very low, and if I remember rightly his injury may have been because of a fight.

Behaviours between the bars are not always a sign they want to be together - some are simply territory marking and power lie ins.
I know you’ve asked a few times about singles so If you are worried he needs company and isn’t happy as a single then the best thing is to get him his own new friend so you have two pairs
 
If it was me I would take the time to boar date both of them. Is there anyway they could both spend their 2 weeks actually at the rescue before you pick them up. I know some rescue do do residential boar dating but not all.
If not I actually think two recently bonded boars together in a good sized carrier might work ok, as they will be “out of their comfort zone just enough to stick together. Take a couple of spare containers just in case as a back up though, but I wouldn’t separate after the bonding
 
CTWC said:
And do you think your singles are happy enough my single who had to be alone following an operation seems desperate to go in to the others but I'm worried he might get hurt x
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My singles are very happy with their next door neighbour arrangement. I would say far happier and more relaxed than when they lived in pairs (one has never lived with guinea pigs before). Life can be very tense for fear aggressive boars. I have tried to pair them with new friends with and with out the help of rescues and it's never worked out long term.
 
I think on the subject of carriers you would have to go by what the rescue advise. I have seen quite a few rescues stipulate you should take a separate carrier as they don't like piggies travelling home together.
 
I'm sorry you are going through this.if you do not have an experienced vet that does boar neutered,it can be a greater risk of abscesses.
The rescue route maybe easier to get a good match.you will need two carriers as others have stated.
The risk with getting baby boars from a shop ,may mean that there are fall outs as they get older.
I'm sorry it is a dilemma.
 
My mums going to make me get rid of Remi. I cant do it. I love him so much and i don’t know what life they will go to if i put him away.
What if they don’t get fed properly, what if they get handled incorrectly, what if they only get a small amount of hay a day, what if his abscess comes back and the new people dont want to pay the medical bills. They might handle him incorrectly and drop him and then leave him in his cage thinking it’s fine and he’ll be fine, which i’ve seen way too many times on this forum.

I’ve literally spent 2 weeks working on getting my mum to allow me to get 4 because i have the resources and the space and my dad who hates guinea pigs comes in and says no and then my mum changes her mind and there’s nothing i can do because it’s their home.

They don’t understand he’s my family.
I don’t know what to do, i’m so angry and upset
 
How sad that your parents have so little understanding of your bond with your guinea pigs. I can think of all kind of things, but unfortunately you will have to make do with their limits.
It sounds like they think four guinea pigs are too many. Are two cages next to each other an option and take them inside? Or a 6x2 c&c cage (or larger) and then divided in half?
I used to have two males like that for years and I thought they were completely fine with it. They seemed very happy to me.
 
Spring100 said:
How sad that your parents have so little understanding of your bond with your guinea pigs. I can think of all kind of things, but unfortunately you will have to make do with their limits.
It sounds like they think four guinea pigs are too many. Are two cages next to each other an option and take them inside? Or a 6x2 c&c cage (or larger) and then divided in half?
I used to have two males like that for years and I thought they were completely fine with it. They seemed very happy to me.
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Thanks for your reply. Yes, they think 4 pigs is too much but we have had 3 previously and they will take up no more room than normal due to me splitting my hutch in 2. Its just very annoying, I could understand if I wanted another hutch in their garage or something but whatever.

Unfortunately no they can not come inside, due to the fact my mum is allergic of them and I do not have the space to give them the minimum each let alone more than that. I just have the one hutch, which can be split in 2 but I do not want to do this as they would be technically alone from dusk to dawn, which is their most active hours.

I have calmed down since the initial "argument", but I still see no way out of this. The only way both pigs can live their best life (without getting them both a friend) is that I do put one of them up for adoption to a new family and a new friend, but I do not think I will ever be able to bring myself to do it. I appreciate the rescue has a minimum cage size but they can not control how the pig is treated once out of their care.
I have also been giving him medication the past 5 weeks and helping him recover through all the issues with his abscess, and I can not help but feel more connected to him due to this.

It might be worth noting that I do suffer with anxiety, but any owner would struggle with having to put one of their beloved animals/family members away.
 
Is it an option to make your own hutch for the garage? With 1 large indoor cage that you can divide? I think making something yourself that suits your circumstances is the only option if you want them to have full contact 24 hours a day.
Giving up doesn't sound like an option for you. Adding two other guinea pigs or taking them inside is also not possible. Then this seems to me to be the only option that is not too complicated to realize.
 
I know you’re not had your hutch long and I know that open cages are difficult in your garage given the temperature but would there be space for two 120x60cm commercial cages next to each other in the garage? Would that be something your mum would be happy with.
They could sit at an L shape with each other if it makes it fit better.
I know it takes slightly more space then two piggies living together (180 together 240 being separate) but a 120cm is minimum for a single piggy so it can’t be any smaller than that.

I have Wilbur in a commercial in my shed since his fall out with Hugo. Silver foil insulation which I made into a cage cover and blankets work very well and keeping him snug and warm in there.
 
That’s a great idea! You could also look out for a good secondhand hutch locally if money is tight
 
Piggies&buns said:
I know you’re not had your hutch long and I know that open cages are difficult in your garage given the temperature but would there be space for two 120x60cm commercial cages next to each other in the garage? Would that be something your mum would be happy with.
They could sit at an L shape with each other if it makes it fit better.
I know it takes slightly more space then two piggies living together (180 together 240 being separate) but a 120cm is minimum for a single piggy so it can’t be any smaller than that.

I have Wilbur in a commercial in my shed since his fall out with Hugo. Silver foil insulation which I made into a cage cover and blankets work very well and keeping him snug and warm in there.
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What about splitting the bottom half of the cage overnight?

So overnight the boys would live in 81x71.5cm (is this liveable?), with a grid inbetween them so they can see each other. Then at 7am their cage will be opened into a run that will be able 3x3 or 2x4 for each pig. Then they will be closed up at 9-10pm, depending on the season.

Edit - In the summer months they may be able to stay in the runs overnight, but I can’t be sure of it.
 
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piggl said:
What about splitting the bottom half of the cage overnight?

So overnight the boys would live in 81x71.5cm (is this liveable?), with a grid inbetween them so they can see each other. Then at 7am their cage will be opened into a run that will be able 3x3 or 2x4 for each pig. Then they will be closed up at 9-10pm, depending on the season.

Edit - In the summer months they may be able to stay in the runs overnight, but I can’t be sure of it.
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It’s well below minimum, and given this would be a permanent arrangement, it’s not something I’d advise.

I think I have asked this before, but could you split the bottom half of the hutch but then leave the hutch door open and extend it into a c&c space that they can have permanent access to? That would mean they have enough space all the time. It would also mean the hutch part of each side is where you stuff lots of hay and snugglesafes into to provide them somewhere warm to go.
You can then peg silver foil insulation over the top of the open part of the cage and a blanket on top.
This is what I originally did for Wilbur and Hugo
 
Piggies&buns said:
It’s well below minimum, and given this would be a permanent arrangement, it’s not something I’d advise.

I think I have asked this before, but could you split the bottom half of the hutch but then leave the hutch door open and extend it into a c&c space that they can have permanent access to? That would mean they have enough space all the time. It would also mean the hutch part of each side is where you stuff lots of hay and snugglesafes into to provide them somewhere warm to go.
You can then peg silver foil insulation over the top of the open part of the cage and a blanket on top.
This is what I originally did for Wilbur and Hugo
Click to expand...
I have thought about it, but its mostly below 10C each night, even in summer, so I am very worried about being able to keep them warm. Would covering the runs overnight help.

I know deep down my best option is to put one up for adoption but I just feel so guilty. I am starting to think about it more openly, and the more my options are unsuitable for them the more I am moving towards maybe putting Remi up for adoption and bonding Reggie with a piggie at the rescue.
 
piggl said:
I have thought about it, but its mostly below 10C each night, even in summer, so I am very worried about being able to keep them warm. Would covering the runs overnight help.

I know deep down my best option is to put one up for adoption but I just feel so guilty. I am starting to think about it more openly, and the more my options are unsuitable for them the more I am moving towards maybe putting Remi up for adoption and bonding Reggie with a piggie at the rescue.
Click to expand...

While they do need to be kept warm and have somewhere warm to go, they do get used to being a bit cooler. It’s cold AND damp which they can’t cope with.
It’s been 7-10 degrees overnight here of late and mine haven’t been doing their heatpads. Just covers down and lots of hay and they have been fine.
 
Piggies&buns said:
While they do need to be kept warm and have somewhere warm to go, they do get used to being a bit cooler. It’s cold AND damp which they can’t cope with.
It’s been 7-10 degrees overnight here of late and mine haven’t been doing their heatpads. Just covers down and lots of hay and they have been fine.
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What temperature does it reach inside the shed though? I think you shed is insulated, if I am not wrong.
 
piggl said:
What temperature does it reach inside the shed though? I think you shed is insulated, if I am not wrong.
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Yes it’s insulated and while I had previously managed to maintain above 10, something has happened this year which means it is only staying around the same as outside. It might be the lack of sun this winter not warming it up in there for the insulation to trap the heat inside

It’s only my second winter with this new shed and it has less glass than the the last one so less sunlight is getting directly in in winter
 
Piggies&buns said:
Yes it’s insulated and while I had previously managed to maintain above 10, something has happened this year which means it is only staying around the same as outside. It might be the lack of sun this winter not warming it up in there for the insulation to trap the heat inside

It’s only my second winter with this new shed and it has less glass than the the last one so less sunlight is getting directly in in winter
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What if I bought a 6ft chartwell and split it in two? I have the money to buy one and I can also sell the other one, as it’s brand new.
Is 3ft x 2ft big enough for one male pig.
 
No, minimum is 4ft x 2ft. A 7ft hutch also isn’t big enough, you need an 8ft hutch (which would be a custom made item)
The only way a 6ft hutch can work is as I suggested - with it split in half and extended out the front with grids
 
Piggies&buns said:
No, minimum is 4ft x 2ft. A 7ft hutch also isn’t big enough, you need an 8ft hutch (which would be a custom made item)
The only way a 6ft hutch can work is as I suggested - with it split in half and extended out the front with grids
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This was suggested to me before, so thank you to whoever said that but what if I got 2 2x5ft cages and made a connecting wall mesh.
What is a good size for one boar in cm please?
 
piggl said:
This was suggested to me before, so thank you to whoever said that but what if I got 2 2x5ft cages and made a connecting wall mesh.
What is a good size for one boar in cm please?
Click to expand...

120x60cm is minimum size for a single piggy - that is 4ft x 2ft. So you could get two 4ft hutches and do the mesh between and it still be good for them.
A 5ft hutch is 150x60cm - and is a lovely size for a single piggy. That would mean you need a 3 metre length of space be able to do that
 
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