Young and old....when to let go 😔

[LynneMcd]

Hello, firstly apologies for the length of this post. I felt like I needed to post here with like minded piggy lovers who will understand as my heart is very sore and I can't function when any of my beloved piggies are unwell.
My sweet 8 year old ( this Saturday) Pinky boy is nearing the end of his life. He has been losing weight, struggling to eat and drooling a lot. I had him under GA to check his teeth as he is still very interested in food and still a lively little sweetheart. They couldn't see a problem with his incisors or his molars and think it could be a problem with his throat. However the vet never looked down his throat. He amazingly recovered from the GA and I helped him with some syringe feeds and have been giving him metacam twice a day. He's still very active and vocal and very hungry, however he is drooling terribly and is still losing weight.
He really does look like a poor little skinny soul and although he is wanting to eat, he struggles and can only eat very slowly and seems to have some problems with swallowing. He is so bony and fragile.
I feel that it's unfair to keep him going for my selfish reasons. He's had a wonderful life with 3 different family groups - first he lived with his Dad, with his Mum and sister nearby in another enclosure then he was neutered and re-united with his Mum and sister until they passed. After he lost his family members, I located three baby girls from a family living locally for him to live with. We lost one of the girls - Bramble, at only 6 months old. She had an aggressive tumour growing in her bowel that the vet identified whilst she was undergoing surgery. She had to be PTS there and then. That was so upsetting and unexpected.
Peaches and Rosie are the other two companions who are almost 3 years old and this morning I had to rush Peaches to the vet. She seemed in pain and was hunched and sitting alone in the corner. She was very swollen (vet said air) and the vet gave her two injections. One metacam and the other a relaxant. She seems to be ok now and is eating and pooing normally. However the vet noticed she has several large, hard Lumps about her abdomen that I was told were too numerous to remove. That means if Peaches leaves us, Rosie will be alone. Another lone piggy. This has happened all in 1 week. Why do things happen all at once?
I honestly can't imagine my life without guinea pigs. I've always had them in my life. But I think the pain of losing them actually gets worse, the older I get.
I suppose my main focus right now is when to let Pinky go. What would you all do? Because he is so interested in eating I just don't know what to do. Keep syringe feeding until he shows no interest, even though he is drooling so much? His weight in Feb was 800g, March 775g, April 745g, yesterday 714g and today 698g. He's slowly wasting away but seems determined to keep going. He's an amazing little character
I would consider myself to be a fairly strong individual and I feel quite embarrassed that I seem to fall apart when anything is wrong with my animals. It's almost like I feel like reverting to being a small child again, who can't cope and just wants to curl up under the covers and howl and wail. How dramatic I know. But it's exactly how I feel and I find such comfort in this forum.
Thank you

 

[piggl]

Sorry to hear this,
There is nothing wrong with the emotion and care you feel for these animals, they are our families members. It is not selfish to want to not put down your beloved animal, especially when they are still acting themselves.

This is a really tough call and realistically you are the only one who can make that decision, when you can see in him that he is ready to go.
As he is eating it can show he still has the will to live but I would be taking into consideration the drooling and weight loss. Has he had an x-ray at all to identify the cause of his weight loss?

Keeping you and pinky in my thoughts x

You will likely find this/these guides helpful -
Death, Dying, Terminal Illness; Human Grieving and Bereaved Companions: Information and Support for Owners and Their Children

 

[LynneMcd]

Sorry to hear this,
There is nothing wrong with the emotion and care you feel for these animals, they are our families members. It is not selfish to want to not put down your beloved animal, especially when they are still acting themselves.

This is a really tough call and realistically you are the only one who can make that decision, when you can see in him that he is ready to go.
As he is eating it can show he still has the will to live but I would be taking into consideration the drooling and weight loss. Has he had an x-ray at all to identify the cause of his weight loss?

Keeping you and pinky in my thoughts x

You will likely find this/these guides helpful -
Death, Dying, Terminal Illness; Human Grieving and Bereaved Companions: Information and Support for Owners and Their Children

Thank you for your kind words.

I was quite disappointed by the vet who examined and carried out his GA to be honest. They really didn't seem to give a great deal of advice, told me it could be a growth in his throat and basically told me that's all they could do for him. They never even suggested an x-ray. I think they were of the strong opinion that he was very old, had made a good age so that was that. I only gave Pinky metacam because I read information on this forum.
My local vets seem to be preoccupied with lambing and calving at this time. £117 later and I still don't have any idea what's causing the problem.

 

[piggieminder]

Sending you hugs. I can't add anything to what @piggl has said but wanted to add my support knowing how hard your situation is. I hope you find the linked info helpful, it's a very good thread.

 

[LynneMcd]

Sending you hugs. I can't add anything to what @piggl has said but wanted to add my support knowing how hard your situation is. I hope you find the linked info helpful, it's a very good thread.

Thank you very much. Its really helpful.

 

[Wheekallweek]

Wow you're going through a tough time with your piggies
Whatever decision you make will be one made with love, and with your piggies wellbeing at heart.
I think if he is still eating, pooping, moving around OK and seems happy, be guided by him. Piggies are normally good at letting us know when they have had enough, if he were to stop eating, or look as if he were in pain for example.
Good luck to you and all your piggies, remember whatever happens happens for a reason, although sometimes it can be hard to figure out what it is!

 

[LynneMcd]

Wow you're going through a tough time with your piggies
Whatever decision you make will be one made with love, and with your piggies wellbeing at heart.
I think if he is still eating, popping, moving around OK and seems happy, be guided by him. Piggies are normally good at letting us know when they have had enough, if he were to stop eating, or look as if he were in pain for example.
Good luck to you and all your piggies, remember whatever happens happens for a reason, although sometimes it can be hard to figure out what it is!

Thank you so much.

 

[piggl]

Thank you for your kind words.

I was quite disappointed by the vet who examined and carried out his GA to be honest. They really didn't seem to give a great deal of advice, told me it could be a growth in his throat and basically told me that's all they could do for him. They never even suggested an x-ray. I think they were of the strong opinion that he was very old, had made a good age so that was that. I only gave Pinky metacam because I read information on this forum.
My local vets seem to be preoccupied with lambing and calving at this time. £117 later and I still don't have any idea what's causing the problem.

It is really tough when your vet is not the most guinea savvy or not willing to take the time to be considerate of your feelings.
They are correct in the fact that he is old, and that can cause deterioration in things like bone health and subtle weight loss but I do not think that I would put him down to being un-helpable.

You could think about an x-ray, although that would include GA which could be more damaging then helpful.
I assume they did a full body "check over", looking for lumps and bumps of any sort, or any irregularities.
How much critical care is he on? And if you are still giving Metacam how much?

It may come down to just spending time with him and he will let you know when he is ready, potentially by stopping eating or showing signs of discomfort/pain.

 

[Merab]

So sorry that you are in such a difficult situation.
Go with your heart.
You will know what is right because of the love you have for your piggies.

You will already have started grieving so be gentle with yourself.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi

BIG HUGS
I am very sorry that everything is happening at once. Piggy illnesses and deaths are like London buses - never nicely spaced out. I should know, having lost some of mine several times just days apart in the last year. It is usually balanced out with long spells when all goes well but a bad spell can really take it out of you.

Personally and based on my own experiences with drooling piggies of various ages, I would consider letting Pinky go sooner rather than later. He is clearly unable to eat enough to keep him going and is now not far off the point where his body will close down once he reaches his bottom weight (i.e. the point where is literally skin and bones and has no more weight to lose). In the very elderly that do not have much substance to fight, this usually happens more quickly compared with a younger piggy.

Try to take pride in having got him to the amazing age of 8 years and that he has survived the vast majority of piggies. We can unfortunately never choose what our piggies ultimately die from at the end. We can only give them a good and happy life for as long as it lasts.

Drooling means than means that there is either dental overgrowth, oral thrush (a fungal mouth infection) that interfers with swallowing or a developing blockage somewhere in the digestive tract between the back of the mouth and the anus. Losing the ability to swallow for neurological reasons can also - rarely - happen; my Angharad had to be pts because of it at 3 years of age. Over the years, I've also lost piggies to a large lump (that didn't show at the back of the mouth), a throat infection that swelled the esophagus shut before the antibiotic could kick in, a couple of blockages in the gut and dental overgrowth in a very frail stroke survivor at just one year of age who could only chew on one side but was far too frail for dentals. Some of these issues were not at all obvious to a vet.
Saliva is constantly produced, but if it cannot pass through the digestive system to help the digestive process for whatever reason it will come out at the other end - the mouth.


I am also very sorry about Pinky. You have obviously got a batch of piggies with genetic issues.
It is very likely that the bloating in her case is secondary and not primary; i.e. it is an added complication caused by the lumps growing in her belly and pressing on the gut but it is not necessarily a disturbance of the gut microbiome in the gut itself. For guinea pigs like her that have pulled one of the short straws in the cosmic gene draw all you can do is love them and give them as many happy todays as they can have - guinea pigs don't have a concept for an average life span but they know a good life and happiness when they see them! A happy life in good care, as short or as long, is never lived in vain because it has been touched by love and made count. You are certainly doing that.

It is always extra heart-breaking with young piggies when there is basically nothing you can do to give them the long life that they deserve as much as anybody else. Try to make every day with her special and count. Love transcends time; you can pack a lifetime's worth of love into just a moment - but using whatever time she has with you to create lots of special, precious memories will make it seem more than it is. It is these memories, sweet and bitter, that will stay with you. What you have control of is to make them as sweet or as bitter as you want to.

I have written this guide below to help people in your situation. It doesn't make for easy reading and it was definitely not easy to write! We cannot tell you when it is time; that is the decision you - and only you as the owner - can make. There is always a kind of grey zone where you have a certain leeway (unless it is an emergency pts) depending on which factors you weigh over others in play, as long as you put your piggy's welfare needs before your own fears of loss.
I sincerely hope that it will help you to make any decisions not with an easier heart but at least a clearer head.
Please accept that you are actually already right in the middle of your grieving process, which accounts for you feeling overwhelmed by your strong emotions. Grieving doesn't start with the moment of death but with the moment you realise that a loss has become unavoidable. Apart from the pain of the actual loss itself, this moment of recognition is the second worst moment; it corresponds with the added shock you experience in a sudden unexpected death.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

Here is our grieving guide if you need to make more sense of what you are feeling right now:
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

 

[weepweeps]

I can’t offer any advice but wanted to send you a hug . Take care

 

[LynneMcd]

It is really tough when your vet is not the most guinea savvy or not willing to take the time to be considerate of your feelings.
They are correct in the fact that he is old, and that can cause deterioration in things like bone health and subtle weight loss but I do not think that I would put him down to being un-helpable.

You could think about an x-ray, although that would include GA which could be more damaging then helpful.
I assume they did a full body "check over", looking for lumps and bumps of any sort, or any irregularities.
How much critical care is he on? And if you are still giving Metacam how much?

It may come down to just spending time with him and he will let you know when he is ready, potentially by stopping eating or showing signs of discomfort/pain.

I was expecting more information from the vet, rather than, "I've done all I can do for him". They saw him initially and never observed any lumps, although they did say he was quite skinny. I really thought that while he was already under GA that if the teeth didn't look to bad, then they would xray or look at his throat, but when they called me to say he woke up from the GA, all the info I got was they trimmed the teeth a tiny bit, he had quite a bit of food packed into his cheeks, which they said could indicate a throat problem. They never even said to syringe feed him or gave me any critical care. I have been using his Burgess nuggets and some vitamin c watered down. He can eat small amounts of hay, nuggets and finely cut veggies, but seems to be slobbering very badly and struggling to swallow so I've been giving him some syringe feed once a day to top up. I give him 35ml metacam twice a day as he weighs just under 700g.

He was so hungry tonight when I gave them veggies, that he was desperate to eat them but was struggling. I had to cut things very small and give him a syringe feed. I felt so bad for my sweet boy. He was taking the syringe but drooling a lot. He did two very small poops, whilst feeding, so he's getting something in.

I cried a lot tonight

 

[LynneMcd]

I can’t offer any advice but wanted to send you a hug . Take care

Thank you x

So sorry that you are in such a difficult situation.
Go with your heart.
You will know what is right because of the love you have for your piggies.

You will already have started grieving so be gentle with yourself.

Thank you x

 

[LynneMcd]

Hi

BIG HUGS
I am very sorry that everything is happening at once. Piggy illnesses and deaths are like London buses - never nicely spaced out. I should know, having lost some of mine several times just days apart in the last year. It is usually balanced out with long spells when all goes well but a bad spell can really take it out of you.

Personally and based on my own experiences with drooling piggies of various ages, I would consider letting Pinky go sooner rather than later. He is clearly unable to eat enough to keep him going and is now not far off the point where his body will close down once he reaches his bottom weight (i.e. the point where is literally skin and bones and has no more weight to lose). In the very elderly that do not have much substance to fight, this usually happens more quickly compared with a younger piggy.
Try to take pride in having got him to the amazing age of 8 years and that he has survived the vast majority of piggies. We can unfortunately never choose what our piggies ultimately die from at the end. We can only give them a good and happy life for as long as it lasts.
Drooling means than means that there is either dental overgrowth, oral thrush (a fungal mouth infection) that interfers with swallowing or a developing blockage somewhere in the digestive tract between the back of the mouth and the anus. Losing the ability to swallow for neurological reasons can also - rarely - happen; my Angharad had to be pts because of it at 3 years of age. I've also lost piggies to a large lump (that didn't show at the back of the mouth, a throat infection that swelled the esophagus shut before the antibiotic could kick in, a couple of blockages in the gut and dental overgrowth in a very frail stroke survivor at just one year of age who could only chew on one side but was far too frail for dentals over the years.
Saliva is constantly produced but if it cannot pass through the digestive system for whatever reason, it will come out at the other end - the mouth.


I am also very sorry about Pinky. You have obviously got a batch of piggies with genetic issues.
It is very likely that the bloating in her case is secondary and not primary; i.e. it is an added complication caused by the lumps growing in her belly and pressing on the gut but it is not a disturbance of the gut microbiome in the gut itself. For guinea pigs like her that have pulled one of the short straws in the cosmic gene draw all you can do is love them and give them as many happy todays as they are given - guinea pigs don't have a concept for an average life span but they know a good life and happiness when they see them! A happy life in good care, as short or as long, is never lived in vain because it has been touched by love and made count. You are certainly doing that.

It is always extra heart-breaking with young piggies when there is basically nothing you can do to give them the long life that they deserve as anybody else. Try to make every day with her special and count. Love transcends time; you can pack a lifetime's worth of love into just a moment - but using whatever time she has with you to create lots of special, precious memories will make it seem more than it is. It is these memories, sweet and bitter, that will stay with you - and what you have control about is to make them as sweet or as bitter as you want to.

I have written this guide here to help people in your situation. It doesn't make easy reading and it was definitely not easy to get down. We cannot tell you when it is time; that is the decision you - and only you as the owner - can make. There is always a kind of grey zone where you have a certain leeway (unless is an emergency pts) depending on which factors you weigh over others in play, as long as you put your piggy's welfare needs before your own fears of loss.
I sincerely hope that it will help you to make any decisions not with an easier heart but at least a clearer head. Please accept that you are actually already right in the middle of your grieving process, which accounts for you feeling overwhelmed by your strong emotions.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

I can't thank you enough for such beautiful, kind, wise words. You have helped me very much and I appreciate your time, advice and for caring.
I'm so sorry for all your losses.
Thank you so much for this special forum and for comforting me.

 

[Freela]

I'm very sorry you're going through this. There's nothing wrong with feeling the way you do. Having small animals it sometimes feel like we go through losses all the time. Honestly, watching my pets get old and decline and not being able to help is the hardest thing for me. Even worse than when they go. Watching them struggle is so, SO painful.

I wish I could give you advice... in my case, when I've had to choose to put pets to sleep, it's been because they either were close to death and I wanted them to pass more peacefully or because they were no longer able to do things that were normal for their species (i.e. could no longer move around normally, eat and drink, or be comfortable/pain-free.) It's a really hard decision to make, and I've been gutted even when I knew it was the right thing to do. I can feel that you love these little guys and I'm sure you will make the decision out of love and in their best interest.

I get what it's like mourning pets... we have pigs and also hamsters, who only live 2 or 3 years. It's really, REALLY hard. The last time I lost one of my pigs, my son said something that stuck with me. He said that having a good life and living to be old is winning life. Most animals don't get to do that. Living a full life and passing of old age is a victory, not a tragedy. And I try to remember that with my pets that live to their old age. For the ones that don't, I still remember that I gave them happy days, even if they weren't as long as I wished. I can't control how long they are with me, but I can absolutely give them happy lives, good care, lots of pats... and they are giving me love, memories, affection, etc. ((HUGS)) to you and all the best.

 

[LynneMcd]

I'm very sorry you're going through this. There's nothing wrong with feeling the way you do. Having small animals it sometimes feel like we go through losses all the time. Honestly, watching my pets get old and decline and not being able to help is the hardest thing for me. Even worse than when they go. Watching them struggle is so, SO painful.

I wish I could give you advice... in my case, when I've had to choose to put pets to sleep, it's been because they either were close to death and I wanted them to pass more peacefully or because they were no longer able to do things that were normal for their species (i.e. could no longer move around normally, eat and drink, or be comfortable/pain-free.) It's a really hard decision to make, and I've been gutted even when I knew it was the right thing to do. I can feel that you love these little guys and I'm sure you will make the decision out of love and in their best interest.

I get what it's like mourning pets... we have pigs and also hamsters, who only live 2 or 3 years. It's really, REALLY hard. The last time I lost one of my pigs, my son said something that stuck with me. He said that having a good life and living to be old is winning life. Most animals don't get to do that. Living a full life and passing of old age is a victory, not a tragedy. And I try to remember that with my pets that live to their old age. For the ones that don't, I still remember that I gave them happy days, even if they weren't as long as I wished. I can't control how long they are with me, but I can absolutely give them happy lives, good care, lots of pats... and they are giving me love, memories, affection, etc. ((HUGS)) to you and all the best.

Thank you for being so lovely and kind. I really appreciate it.

 

[Claire W]

I am very sorry that Pinky is nearing the end of his life My Edward lost the ability to swallow last summer after he deteriorated over a few weeks. He was just 3 months from his 7th birthday. We made the decision to help him cross the rainbow bridge as it was clear he was struggling and had lost a lot of weight.

If Pinky were my piggy, I would seriously consider letting him go sooner rather than later. I always go with the thoughts of it’s better a day too early rather than a day too late but it has to be your decision and whatever decision you make will be the right one for your boy

(((Hugs))) xx

 

[piggl]

I was expecting more information from the vet, rather than, "I've done all I can do for him". They saw him initially and never observed any lumps, although they did say he was quite skinny. I really thought that while he was already under GA that if the teeth didn't look to bad, then they would xray or look at his throat, but when they called me to say he woke up from the GA, all the info I got was they trimmed the teeth a tiny bit, he had quite a bit of food packed into his cheeks, which they said could indicate a throat problem. They never even said to syringe feed him or gave me any critical care. I have been using his Burgess nuggets and some vitamin c watered down. He can eat small amounts of hay, nuggets and finely cut veggies, but seems to be slobbering very badly and struggling to swallow so I've been giving him some syringe feed once a day to top up. I give him 35ml metacam twice a day as he weighs just under 700g.

He was so hungry tonight when I gave them veggies, that he was desperate to eat them but was struggling. I had to cut things very small and give him a syringe feed. I felt so bad for my sweet boy. He was taking the syringe but drooling a lot. He did two very small poops, whilst feeding, so he's getting something in.

I cried a lot tonight

I'm so sorry to hear this, food packed in the cheeks is a big indicator of dental or similar issues.
I do not particularly understand why he is still drooling after his dental, or why they did not look into this, but for that I am sorry.

I am not really sure what you mean by 35ml of Metacam, perhaps you were speaking about critical care.
In the situation your boy is in you would be looking to get around 100ml in your boy a day, which I believe is around the total calories a pig can have in a day, are you still just feeding mushed up pellets or do you have oxbow critical care (or whatever brand), as this contains all nutrients and calories a sick piggy needs.
I would really recommend getting some ‘proper’ support feed to keep him going if he is struggling to eat.

The fact that he is struggling to swallow, losing weight and constantly drooling, is really upsetting and I can not imagine how tough that is for your right now.
Unfortunately in the state he is in, I would be looking at as said above putting him down sooner than later. When a piggy struggles to swallow, this is a sign your boy is not coping well and perhaps is ready to go.

I am wishing you and your boy all the best, whatever decision you make x

 

[LynneMcd]

I'm very sorry you're going through this. There's nothing wrong with feeling the way you do. Having small animals it sometimes feel like we go through losses all the time. Honestly, watching my pets get old and decline and not being able to help is the hardest thing for me. Even worse than when they go. Watching them struggle is so, SO painful.

I wish I could give you advice... in my case, when I've had to choose to put pets to sleep, it's been because they either were close to death and I wanted them to pass more peacefully or because they were no longer able to do things that were normal for their species (i.e. could no longer move around normally, eat and drink, or be comfortable/pain-free.) It's a really hard decision to make, and I've been gutted even when I knew it was the right thing to do. I can feel that you love these little guys and I'm sure you will make the decision out of love and in their best interest.

I get what it's like mourning pets... we have pigs and also hamsters, who only live 2 or 3 years. It's really, REALLY hard. The last time I lost one of my pigs, my son said something that stuck with me. He said that having a good life and living to be old is winning life. Most animals don't get to do that. Living a full life and passing of old age is a victory, not a tragedy. And I try to remember that with my pets that live to their old age. For the ones that don't, I still remember that I gave them happy days, even if they weren't as long as I wished. I can't control how long they are with me, but I can absolutely give them happy lives, good care, lots of pats... and they are giving me love, memories, affection, etc. ((HUGS)) to you and all the best.

Thank you for such lovely support x

 

[LynneMcd]

I am very sorry that Pinky is nearing the end of his life My Edward lost the ability to swallow last summer after he deteriorated over a few weeks. He was just 3 months from his 7th birthday. We made the decision to help him cross the rainbow bridge as it was clear he was struggling and had lost a lot of weight.

If Pinky were my piggy, I would seriously consider letting him go sooner rather than later. I always go with the thoughts of it’s better a day too early rather than a day too late but it has to be your decision and whatever decision you make will be the right one for your boy

(((Hugs))) xx

Thank you for your kind advice. Today I will say goodbye to our lovely boy.

 

[LynneMcd]

I'm so sorry to hear this, food packed in the cheeks is a big indicator of dental or similar issues.
I do not particularly understand why he is still drooling after his dental, or why they did not look into this, but for that I am sorry.

I am not really sure what you mean by 35ml of Metacam, perhaps you were speaking about critical care.
In the situation your boy is in you would be looking to get around 100ml in your boy a day, which I believe is around the total calories a pig can have in a day, are you still just feeding mushed up pellets or do you have oxbow critical care (or whatever brand), as this contains all nutrients and calories a sick piggy needs.
I would really recommend getting some ‘proper’ support feed to keep him going if he is struggling to eat.

The fact that he is struggling to swallow, losing weight and constantly drooling, is really upsetting and I can not imagine how tough that is for your right now.
Unfortunately in the state he is in, I would be looking at as said above putting him down sooner than later. When a piggy struggles to swallow, this is a sign your boy is not coping well and perhaps is ready to go.

I am wishing you and your boy all the best, whatever decision you make x

Thank you so much. I will say goodbye to our beautiful Pinky today.

 

[LynneMcd]

I'll be saying goodbye to our sweet boy Pinky today.
Thank you all so much for the amazing messages of care and support. You really have all helped me immensely and Pinky would thank you also for helping us all.
I'm so grateful for the lovely folk and this forum.
I think guinea pig lovers are the best kind of people. Bye for now from sweet Pinky boy.

 

[piggl]

We call this the last act of love, as it is the last act of care, compassion and love we can show to these small members of our families, but that will never make it easier.

Please be kind to yourself and if you would like feel free to post a little tribute to the gorgeous Pinky in the rainbow bridge section when/if you are ready.
Rest easy pinky

 

[Claire W]

Thank you for your kind advice. Today I will say goodbye to our lovely boy.

I am very sorry but you are making the kindest decision for him and you are making it out of love x