yam and cinnamon, neutered boar and sow

[aurvandil]

ive had yam since the 2nd of january now and I'm struggling to know where to go, google nor my rescue are any help- as the rescue tells me things google tells me to never do

i’ve read through the bonding thread here on this site, and cinnamon and yam display the behaviours of the first two blonde piggies in the video, however there is usually a bit of teeth chattering if they’re around eachother long enough

my rescue recommended i do a 5-10 minute session daily, let them eat their veggies then split it up, ive been doing that- and the chatters have cut down but once the veggies are gone there’s usually a bit of it, yam is constantly aware of her presence on her side of the cage, and rumble struts when he sees her
she usually responds with some sniffing and occasionally a rumble herself, to which yam loses his mind and starts wheeking and popcorning all over the place, which i saw mentioned on the boar and sow bonding thread

what do i do from here? is the chattering a sign it will never work? they’re constantly wheeking at eachother, sleeping next to eachother at the bars- eating together, but when there’s no bar i worry they’d start to fight- the vets recommend i just throw in the towel and stick them together, the rescue haven’t been the most reliable in giving me the best advice

does this sound like a “we will never be friends” scenario- or is there hope?

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m not seeing anything here which is concerning (other than the process the rescue have told you to follow) - Just normal dominance and bonding - a bit of teeth chattering is only a warning if it is loud, mild chattering is normal behaviour.

I’ve no idea why you’ve been told to do multiple short sessions - that’s not how bonding is done.
Bonding is a one time event. You need to remove them from the cage put them in a neutral territory area (somewhere which has neither is their scents). Don’t just remove dividers and allow them to wander into each others cages - that can be seen as a territory invasion and set things on edge. Leave them for several hours in the bonding pen to see if they can get on. They have many stages of the bonding process to get through and 5-10 minutes of a meeting doesn’t let them get through any.
If things go well in the neutral territory bonding pen you then clean down the cage they are to live in, and move them to the cage and leave them together from then on. It then takes two weeks for then to fully sort out their relationship and hierarchy.

What you can’t do is put them together for a short time, then separate, then put them together again. All that does is interrupt the process every time and mean they don’t get through the bonding stages. They then have to start at the beginning again next time but never to get to see it through.
Short meetings can be done for fear aggressive sows but that is not what you are reporting.

If after the time/several hours in neutral territory bonding pen, things aren’t working out, then they need to remain separate.

So, listen to your vet! Put them in a neutral territory pen, see how things go and then hopefully you can move them to their cage together to live happily together!

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

 

[Wiebke]

Hi

It can be that they won't gel. Not every pairing does if there is no personality match.

However, they cannot bond if you constantly abort the bonding process before it can really get underway; they have not even got as far as initial acceptance, which only takes about a quarter to half of an hour or so in one go to work out whether they like each other or not!

All you basically do is to allow them to wave at each other from across the road and to shout hello. How can you build up a working relationship by cutting across their very species instincts and their own instinctive bonding manual? I know that slow bonding is making the rounds on social media; it is very much the cowards' way of trying to avoid any crucial dominance behaviours (which are at the very heart of a hierarchical group/pair).
Ultimately, it always comes down to the same bottom, just with a lot more frustration for the piggies: they either want to be together or not, and there is nothing you can do if the latter is the case.

I agree with your vet: you will have to take the plunge and commit at some point and ride the tiger wherever it leads you to. Otherwise you will never get anywhere and find out whether the behaviour through the bars is friendly or territorial; it could be either.

All the best!

 

[aurvandil]

i decided to try a proper session is the set up okay?, this is what’s going on, yam is also trying to mount cinny like no tommorow
19 February 2023
how long should i go for, what signs mean stop the bonding?

 

[Wiebke]

i decided to try a proper session is the set up okay?, this is what’s going on, yam is also trying to mount cinny like no tommorow
19 February 2023
how long should i go for, what signs mean stop the bonding?

Hi

The video looks perfectly normal and OK to me? Please do not separate and just let them get on with it. The hardest thing for an owner with anxiety is to not interfere. But that is exactly what you need to do; just let them get on with it and they will sort themselves out. If needed, give them overnight in the bonding pen to get through the worst of the group establishing dominance (which is the cornerstone of social cavy life) before transferring them to the cage together.

Please have a look at the videos and pictures in our bonding guide and read the descriptions for every single stage of the bonding process. I have done my very best to detail what is OK and when a bonding has failed for every single stage and have also included a video where an over-eager boar is ignoring all warning signs until they got to a (non-aggressive) tussle. I cannot make it any clearer and more detailed to help you understand what is going on throughout the whole process. It jas taken me several days to write and illustrate the guide. I cannot repeat this all for you in this thread and in just a single post.
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

PS: Biting fights are actually rare in cross gender bondings and highly unlikely to happen in your case (the body language in the video clip is far too relaxed) so please to not to get fixated on a snake that is not even in the room.

 

[aurvandil]

thank you for the reply, this has eased my worries greatly