Worrying hooman mummy!

Ambercrane

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Good evening… hoping this post doesn’t end up as an essay but 2 weeks ago I lost one of my boys aged only 2 and a half… I have been undecided about getting another boy or just ploughing all my attention into my remaining boy… after lots of looking I realised no amount of my company would match a cage mate… I have cried lots and today my daughter brought me a 9 week old boy… I have searched google for advice on bonding and am confused as to the different opinions. How do I safely get this to work with them both pls? I adore them and don’t want to fail them in any way… I want to do the very best by them both but been told now (after my daughter brought ‘crumpet’ home) that once the baby reaches puberty they will fight! Please overwhelm me with advice! Thanks in advance
 
Welcome to the forum. I have a pair of boars who have an age difference and were bonded when they were young. They have a lovely relationship. I agree with the above re the bonding guides. Good luck, I am looking forward to seeing pictures of your boys.
 
Good evening… hoping this post doesn’t end up as an essay but 2 weeks ago I lost one of my boys aged only 2 and a half… I have been undecided about getting another boy or just ploughing all my attention into my remaining boy… after lots of looking I realised no amount of my company would match a cage mate… I have cried lots and today my daughter brought me a 9 week old boy… I have searched google for advice on bonding and am confused as to the different opinions. How do I safely get this to work with them both pls? I adore them and don’t want to fail them in any way… I want to do the very best by them both but been told now (after my daughter brought ‘crumpet’ home) that once the baby reaches puberty they will fight! Please overwhelm me with advice! Thanks in advance

Hi and welcome

I am very sorry for your loss.

Fact is that is more than half of unmatched same age boars actually make it through teenage together and that percentage is going up even more if one of the boars is an adult because that way there is only one boar hitting the hormone spikes at any time, which goes actually quite a long way towards stabilising a bond although it is not a guarantee.
The fail rate is much, much higher in same age trios and near 100% in quartets, which is the most unstable boar combo of all during teenage.

The fail rate in same age baby boar pairs is rather high because the all important personality match is ignored when piggies are chosen at the shop - people buy for looks and not for which boys are hanging out together. Bringing home a new friend on spec is also unfortunately somewhat of a gamble. Other factors like too small cages, huts with only one exit, shared bowls and only one water bottle and hay access etc. can act as additional flash points when the under-boar is unable to remove themselves from the premises as they would normally do so they are compelled to fight.

Crucial is initial acceptance during bonding as to the presence or absence of a personality match and then later on whether the boars are still compatible and want to be together when your baby boar is developing his adult identity during teenage. Key is generally how dominant the baby is in his own outlook when he comes fully into his own.

A not very dominant baby boar will simply fit in and can often create a very loving bond with an 'uncle boar'. Once weaned, baby boars are wired to associate with a larger bachelor boar willing to take them to learn the ropes. However, if your boy is not OK being a bereaved single, then chances are pretty high that he will accept a baby boy and take him under his wing. ;)

Just make sure that you have a cage you can divide if necessary either temporarily during a teenage spike or for the long term so your two boys can become a 'can't live together but can't live apart' boar pair that retains their bond with full interaction through the bars but each with their own territory as your plan B, which will hopefully never become necessary.

My Nye was ca. 4 months old when I adopted him as a companion for my very skittish adult Nosgan after he turned out to be total fail with any ladies of mine and not just those of his previous owner. I went through the whole teenage with young Nye but the two boys only needed a short temporary separation twice, both on days I was dealing with a proper female pheromone storm from several sows coming into a strong season together in my piggy room. I had Nye neutered at 6 month (he was considered still a bit too small for an op before Christmas and had to wait an extra month) but he still went through all the typical teenage phases. He did go on to live happily with a sow pair of mine after Nosgan's death who they had been living right next to for several months - even though it is generally a big no no. Since Nosgan was not really interested in the ladies, Nye and Hyfryd were able to fall in love through the bars without this causing any problems.

You may also want to read these guides here for some more balanced information and a deeper understanding of how boars work and where they are coming from:

A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
A Closer Look At Pairs (Boars - Sows - Mixed)

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

The Herd, the Group and I: Investigating Guinea Pig Identity and Society (there is also a chapter on boars which you may find illuminating)
Journey through a Lifetime: The Ages of Guinea Pigs (looks at the development and what happens at each age, including pre-teenage and teenage)
 
The picture with my son in is of ‘squeak’ who we lost recently and the other is disgruntled ‘bubble’ after being woken up… bubble is the adult one I want to bond with crumpet.
I have tucked crumpet in a quiet room in a separate cage but he hasn’t come out of the hide and now I’m worried he is only little and hasn’t eaten or drank… should I be worried or is it normal for him to be like this till he gains confidence? He was with another 6 at pets at home and worry it’s too quiet for him being alone. Sorry for so many questions I just desperately want to get this right. x
 

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Hi and welcome

I am very sorry for your loss.

Fact is that is more than half of unmatched same age boars actually make it through teenage together and that percentage is going up even more if one of the boars is an adult because that way there is only one boar hitting the hormone spikes at any time, which goes actually quite a long way towards stabilising a bond although it is not a guarantee.
The fail rate is much, much higher in same age trios and near 100% in quartets, which is the most unstable boar combo of all during teenage.

The fail rate in same age baby boar pairs is rather high because the all important personality match is ignored when piggies are chosen at the shop - people buy for looks and not for which boys are hanging out together. Bringing home a new friend on spec is also unfortunately somewhat of a gamble. Other factors like too small cages, huts with only one exit, shared bowls and only one water bottle and hay access etc. can act as additional flash points when the under-boar is unable to remove themselves from the premises as they would normally do so they are compelled to fight.

Crucial is initial acceptance during bonding as to the presence or absence of a personality match and then later on whether the boars are still compatible and want to be together when your baby boar is developing his adult identity during teenage. Key is generally how dominant the baby is in his own outlook when he comes fully into his own.

A not very dominant baby boar will simply fit in and can often create a very loving bond with an 'uncle boar'. Once weaned, baby boars are wired to associate with a larger bachelor boar willing to take them to learn the ropes. However, if your boy is not OK being a bereaved single, then chances are pretty high that he will accept a baby boy and take him under his wing. ;)

Just make sure that you have a cage you can divide if necessary either temporarily during a teenage spike or for the long term so your two boys can become a 'can't live together but can't live apart' boar pair that retains their bond with full interaction through the bars but each with their own territory as your plan B, which will hopefully never become necessary.

My Nye was ca. 4 months old when I adopted him as a companion for my very skittish adult Nosgan after he turned out to be total fail with any ladies of mine and not just those of his previous owner. I went through the whole teenage with young Nye but the two boys only needed a short temporary separation twice, both on days I was dealing with a proper female pheromone storm from several sows coming into a strong season together in my piggy room. I had Nye neutered at 6 month (he was considered still a bit too small for an op before Christmas and had to wait an extra month) but he still went through all the typical teenage phases. He did go on to live happily with a sow pair of mine after Nosgan's death who they had been living right next to for several months - even though it is generally a big no no. Since Nosgan was not really interested in the ladies, Nye and Hyfryd were able to fall in love through the bars without this causing any problems.

You may also want to read these guides here for some more balanced information and a deeper understanding of how boars work and where they are coming from:
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
A Closer Look At Pairs (Boars - Sows - Mixed)
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

The Herd, the Group and I: Investigating Guinea Pig Identity and Society (there is also a chapter on boars which you may find illuminating)
Journey through a Lifetime: The Ages of Guinea Pigs (looks at the development and what happens at each age, including pre-teenage and teenage)
This is so helpful thank you so much… at present I have ‘bubble’ my older boy in a 4x2 c&c cage (of which I’m planning on extending to a 5x2 or 6x2) and ‘crumpet’ the baby has a completely separate cage in a separate room for the night then he will go in same room but opposite end. If all else fails I will get another 4x2 cage and they can live in same room but different cages.
All I do know is my boy I lost seemed to be the more dominant one that I witnessed but neither showed obvious signs. The boy I lost was definitely the more ‘Randy’ one of the two yet bubble would occasionally climb on squeak but never anything more than that. I also haven’t seen an obvious decline in bubbles mood since losing squeak but he has been showered with attention since so again can’t be sure. What if I now have this baby and I can’t get it to work I just want them both happy x
 
Hello and welcome to the forum. I’m so sorry for your loss.

I’ve had to bond an adult piggy with a baby twice now and both times they have been absolutely fine. Follow the bonding guide attached above. It sets out exactly how to bond them.

Also make sure their enclosure is large enough for two boys, always have two water bottles and two piles of hay. Only use hides with two exits so one cannot become trapped inside. Handle the dominant piggy first, feed the dominant one first. When you clean them out you can leave a bit of soiled bedding in there so it still smells of both of them.

Also I scatter feed their veggies and nuggets around the cage so they can both eat not too close together. Good luck I hope they like each other and want to be together.
 
After reading the bonding guide I now feel completely out of my depth! One bit says to introduce immediately and another says putting cages next to each other for a while is ok. Is there anyone on here that may be willing to have their patience stretched to the max with constant questions from me? Before joining here I thought bonding the boys would be a breeze and now I feel panicked and stupid at my naivety! I am confident in the love I myself can give and would never forgive myself if I failed either of them
 
Nobody minds the questions, it's great that you want to be informed. Because the new boy is so young (under 4 months) it's best to do the bonding in a neutral area as soon as possible because he needs the comfort.
In the meantime please ensure that he can get to food and water without having to venture far. Place hay right next to where he's hiding etc. he will probably emerge when nobody is around.
Good luck.
 
Questions are good. There’s always someone around to help you

As Crumpet is a baby then he will need to be introduced quickly with no quarantine.

I would set up the neutral area. Have you decided where you are going to bond them? Do you have a playpen, old cage, bathroom, bath? Just put a large pile of hay and water in there and put in Bubble. Then put in Crumpet. And wait to see what happens.

The two times I have bonded a baby with an older boy the older boy has been very interested in the new one. Sniffing them a lot. There’s usually a lot submissive squeaking from the baby. And they follow each other around.

Once you think it’s going well clean out the cage they will live in together really well. Both times I have left them overnight in the bonding pen just to be sure. When you are ready, pop them in there cage with the dirty hay that’s in the pen as it smells of them both. I wouldn’t put any hides in there straight away.

Good luck. Feel free to ask any questions.
 
Oh and please be aware that the baby will most likely make a lot of submission squeals. This can sound like they are being hurt and some piggies are very dramatic about it!
Yes Master Boris I'm looking at you! My submissive will squeal like he's being murdered even though Sir George is nowhere near him!🙄
 
Questions are good. There’s always someone around to help you

As Crumpet is a baby then he will need to be introduced quickly with no quarantine.

I would set up the neutral area. Have you decided where you are going to bond them? Do you have a playpen, old cage, bathroom, bath? Just put a large pile of hay and water in there and put in Bubble. Then put in Crumpet. And wait to see what happens.

The two times I have bonded a baby with an older boy the older boy has been very interested in the new one. Sniffing them a lot. There’s usually a lot submissive squeaking from the baby. And they follow each other around.

Once you think it’s going well clean out the cage they will live in together really well. Both times I have left them overnight in the bonding pen just to be sure. When you are ready, pop them in there cage with the dirty hay that’s in the pen as it smells of them both. I wouldn’t put any hides in there straight away.

Good luck. Feel free to ask any questions.
I’m planning on introducing them in my bathroom. So how long till I know they will be safe together? Am I not able to have them both in the bathroom and then each cage side by side? I’m just terrified the little one will get hurt if I leave them alone x
 
I did one of the bondings in my bathroom. I sat in there with them for about 2 hours. They were absolutely fine so I moved them into an indoor cage for the rest of the day and night just to be sure. The next day I moved them into the hutch in my garage.

I think you’ll know quite quickly if there will be a problem. It’s very rare a baby will get hurt. Once the bonding process has been started you should leave them together for good and only separate them if they fight. It confuses them if they you keep separating them. Good luck. I do find bonding nerve wracking.
 
I’m planning on introducing them in my bathroom. So how long till I know they will be safe together? Am I not able to have them both in the bathroom and then each cage side by side? I’m just terrified the little one will get hurt if I leave them alone x

They need to be in the neutral territory for several hours to get through the early stages of bonding. You will know within those few hours whether acceptance has occurred (it actually tends to happen within the first few minutes).

A baby is usually accepted by an adult as a baby is highly unlikely challenge the hierarchy. It’s not a given though and sometimes a baby does attempt to challenge.

A teenager will become hormonal, he may push his luck but the teens will not automatically cause them to fight. Fights only occur if they can’t agree who is dominant. It is something you need to keep in mind but most boar pairs are fine together!

Once you have put them both together in your bathroom, if all goes well, then they get moved into the same cage together and stay together permanently from then on. You never separate them again. It then takes two weeks of permanently being together for them to get through the next stages of bonding.

If you put them together on your bathroom floor but then separate them into separate cages, all you do is totally undo everything! The bonding stops and puts them right back to square one. Introducing and separating them repeatedly is incredibly stressful for them, not how bonding works and can cause a bond to fail.
For boars bonding is a one time event seen through to conclusion on that one day.
You only ever separate if the bonding clearly fails.

The little one will not get hurt.

Do attempt the bonding though as at 9 weeks old, the little one is too young to be alone and needs the guidance of your older boy.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
 
Welcome to the forum.
There’s lots of good advice been given and I can testify to the quality of the bonding guide. It saved my sanity!
Hope all goes well for you
 
Is this ok? My adult is doing little teeth chattering mind. How long do I leave them? Lots of popping going on too and wheeking
 
Is this ok? My adult is doing little teeth chattering mind. How long do I leave them? Lots of popping going on too and wheeking

Yes it’s fine.

Leave them in the bonding pen for a few hours and then move them together to the fully cleaned out and rearranged cage
 
Yep I would. How long have they been together now? If they fall asleep and you miss it don’t worry. As long as they are happy to be together.
 
Excellent. Are they showing any worrying signs? Do they seem quite relaxed with each other?
 
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