Worried about my two boars, quite long, sorry.

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Doeylicious

Doeylicious

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I have had Bumble and JoJo for nearly 3 weeks now. We got them from a lady who breeds and rescues 'unusuals' so Swiss, Rexs, Texels etc, and they have been together from around 6 weeks old with no issues previously.

They had been getting on ok - Bumble found his feet here first, led by his stomach lol, and JoJo was getting braver and not running away from us so much and starting to enjoy his cuddles! However since the start of this week, things seem to have changed.

When in the run the other day we heard a bit of teeth chattering, and JoJo was chasing Bumble around a bit, JoJo has always been boss pig so we kept an eye on them but weren't too worried. They were fine back in the hutch. They went in the run again today and were fine in the run, bit of chasing but nothing worse than the girls do, but when back in the hutch there was a bit more teeth chattering and JoJo, despite having his own cabbage leaf, kept trying to take Bumbles. Bumble, being the subordinate pig, just let him and wandered off to the food bowl (I have two just in case)

Later I saw JoJo 'herd' Bumble up to one end of the cage, then basically just block Bumble in and not let him move. Every time Bumble tried to go to a different area, JoJo wouldn't let him.

An hour later however and both boys are happily munching one food bowl each!

At the vet last night Bumble had his teeth done (just the front top ones trimmed and filed as they were a bit long) and we also noticed a small scab/cut on his nose. At this stage we are not sure if it is a tiny bit of ringworm (EEK) OR JoJo has nipped him...it definitely wasn't there Tuesday evening so has popped up during yesterday. I'm not entirely sure what ringworm looks like so can't really draw a conclusion, but he is going back to the vet in 2 weeks regardless, and will go sooner if it gets worse. So far it's healing though which I guess means he got bitten as I am unaware of ringworm just clearing up on it's own.

Basically, to sum it up, I'm worried they aren't getting on and am very worried about Bumble being bullied. I don't know whether to try and sit it out or to separate them now and find them a female each...which poses a horrible problem as I don't really have room for another two pairs, but we will have to work that out somehow unless I rehome one of them...

All advice welcome, I'm feeling quite upset and confused right now :(
 
Oh btw, have read the boar thread, and wouldn't be worried if it weren't for the whole bullying rather than fighting thing...fighting I can cope with, had that with the girls, bullying however worries me a lot.
 
Firstly, my goodness. Don't let the vet near his teeth again. They do not need there teeth trimmed! Was it the vet that suggested it?

I would monitor the situation and see were it leads. Do you weigh them?
 
flintstones said:
Firstly, my goodness. Don't let the vet near his teeth again. They do not need there teeth trimmed! Was it the vet that suggested it?

I would monitor the situation and see were it leads. Do you weigh them?
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She's a specialist guinea vet (she's recommended on here actually) and he only had them done as they were too long, done worry Flintstones I know they normally never need trimming, he had been having trouble eating hence going along - he had a bit of an overbite bless him.

I do weigh them, weekly, Bumble is currently the biggest of all my pigs but will keep an eye on if he loses any weight.

Want to cancel my holiday next week now!
 
awww i hate bullying too, i used to have two pigs the small one bullied the big one, i gave in when i came home from work one day and found my beautiful Pepper half way up the cage hanging on for life while Salt was biting his bum, they then lived seperately for 6 months until i tried them again and they were fine? weird.

I feel for you :(
 
Well tonight Mum and I sat very very quietly to watch what happened at tea time.

Bumble eats quite slowly - I think he is getting used to being able to eat properly with decent length teeth! - but as such JoJo finishes his 3 bits of veg before Bumble had even finished one.

JoJo then went and stood next to Bumble and started eating the hay...but after a few minutes, went up to Bumble, chattered and rumble strutted, then just took Bumble's bit of carrot. Bumble didn't even try and fight, just ran away :-(

He's not getting all the vits he needs if he's not getting his veggies surely? :-(

Really don't know what to do. Bumble just doesn't have it in him to fight back - Noodles, one of my sows, takes food off Whiskey, my other sow, but Whiskey takes it back and we have a bit of rumbling and moaning then all is ok. But poor Bumble just runs :-(
 
Well tonight Mum and I sat very very quietly to watch what happened at tea time.

Bumble eats quite slowly - I think he is getting used to being able to eat properly with decent length teeth! - but as such JoJo finishes his 3 bits of veg before Bumble had even finished one.

JoJo then went and stood next to Bumble and started eating the hay...but after a few minutes, went up to Bumble, chattered and rumble strutted, then just took Bumble's bit of carrot. Bumble didn't even try and fight, just ran away :-(

He's not getting all the vits he needs if he's not getting his veggies surely? :-(

Really don't know what to do. Bumble just doesn't have it in him to fight back - Noodles, one of my sows, takes food off Whiskey, my other sow, but Whiskey takes it back and we have a bit of rumbling and moaning then all is ok. But poor Bumble just runs :-(
 
One of my guineas steals food, i just put a large pile of chopped veg (really small pieces) the size means that they are quick to be eaten, the quantity of each thing means that their favourite thing is there for a longer time.

try having a variety of things to play with and hide in in the run, put back doors on all hideys, and move the bully to the other end if he is blocking the other pig in one area.

hope they can stay together,
x
 
Could you feed Bumble outside the cage, or put a divider in during meals? You would only need to until Bumble is back to normal eating speed...
 
with having dental pigs here i would never let a vet touch the front teeth with out first looking at the back teeth ever, as sometimes if the front teeth are over grown their can actually be problems with the back teeth, problems with back teeth have an affect on the front teeth.

regardless of who recommends them they are not always spot on with treatment, people recommend CCT but i have also heard they are not that good in some areas.

regarding the boys i would just keep a check on them if any more fighting happens or anymore scratches/cuts/bites then i would consider splitting them up and maybe housing them next to each other in a mesh divider x
 
Re the teeth, she didn't just go 'oh look that's long lets cut it!' I wouldn't let her do that even if she had suggested it, she looked at the fronts, looked into his mouth at the backs, they were fine, then said she would just trim a little off the front tops as they looked quite long and I concurred he did seem to find any veg very difficult, she also showed me Dodge's teeth (which are fine) so I could see the difference.

She worked with Peter Gurney for several years and is known around the country as one of the vets who brought guinea care into the public eye, so I'm confident in her ability.

If he is fed alone he eats more happily as it as if he isn't worried 'will my food disappear?'

This morning again Mum put loads of hay in, all over the place so there was no fighting over one area, both quite happily eating in different areas, then JoJo just went and sat in front of Bumble so he couldn't eat, when Bumbs tried to move he rumble strutted at him til he stayed still.

To top it off the 'cut' definitely looks like ringworm as it has gone crusty and has spread, so we are off to the vet again and it may be this is the crux point. My sister is due to look after them but she isn't really up to applying meds etc so we might just take Bumbs with us (self catering cottage, owners not local) so I can keep an eye on him. This will mean they are separated for a week but it's either that or Bumbs will basically go untreated which is to me simply not an option.
 
I would make sure that Bumble is getting his food (and a chance to eat it all) where JoJo can't get at it.

Please make sure that all their hides have two exits or one very wide exit so that Bumbles cannot be "locked" in. Guinea pigs do tend to pick on mates with a medical problem - an ill piggy is a danger to the whole herd.

I have to agree with the comments about dental treatment; unless the front teeth are growing at an angle or are not wearing down evenly, the problem is usually found with the molars. Cut front teeth mean that molars can overgrow even worse. Thinking that front teeth are too long is usually the sign of a vet who has no idea of what he is on about; especially if your vet has not at the same time had a thorough look at the back teeth!

The list of vets on here has been compiled by members and is by no means a failproof tool. If it is a clinic that has several vets, you may not have been seen by the vet that has been recommended.

Here is more about teeth:
http://www.guinealynx.info/teeth.html
 
The main thing that gets me is it isn't fighting - it's just bullying - fighting I know what to do about! It's trying to weigh up if the bullying is bad enough to separate them or if Bumble will ever 'man up' :-(
 
Wiebke said:
I would make sure that Bumble is getting his food (and a chance to eat it all) where JoJo can't get at it.

Please make sure that all their hides have two exits or one very wide exit so that Bumbles cannot be "locked" in. Guinea pigs do tend to pick on mates with a medical problem - an ill piggy is a danger to the whole herd.
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We have no hides, I didn't even put any in except a tube as I knew this was likely to be an issue, and the tube is kinda weighted down with the bedding so JoJo can't move it and block one end off - he tried that!

I have to agree with the comments about dental treatment; unless the front teeth are growing at an angle or are not wearing down evenly, the problem is usually found with the molars. Cut front teeth mean that molars can overgrow even worse. Thinking that front teeth are too long is usually the sign of a vet who has no idea of what he is on about; especially if your vet has not at the same time had a thorough look at the back teeth!

The list of vets on here has been compiled by members and is by no means a failproof tool. If it is a clinic that has several vets, you may not have been seen by the vet that has been recommended.
Click to expand...

Please see above - she did look at the back teeth - the vet is Ann Taylor now O'Meara who IS the guinea pig vet at that practice, I do realise I need to ask for a specific vet and the practice know not to offer anyone else to me.
 
Just had Bumbs out on his own, at first he just sat there looking scared, then I went and got a dandelion...there is most definitely no issues with how fast he eats on his own, he rivals Whiskey (who is Dandelion Vaccumer Extroadinaire) for how fast he made it disappear.

Then did the same with some greens, but didn't want any carrot.

So he can eat fine when left in peace but he really needs to KNOW it won't be taken, he took ages sniffing the greens and looking around before he finally ate them :-(
 
I think it might be best for Bumbles if you gave him space and time to eat separately, and hopefully the bullying will calm down by the degree he is picking up.

I am relieved that your vet DID look at the back teeth before she tackled the front teeth. We have had the occasional horror story on here where ignorant vets had "done" teeth and nearly caused the piggy's death by making things even worse. That is why we are so very careful about checking out circumstances when we hear about front teeth being cut.

I have heard good things about the vet you mentioned from several people on here; she is obviously one of the best guinea pig vets in the country. Best make sure that you are seen by her. If she was the one who did the treatment then there was a good reason for it.

All my best to poor Bumbles!
 
Thanks Wiebke. When I phoned them about B's possible ringworm I demanded to see her and noone else, so have been squeezed in before she goes into theatre Monday morning! Had enough bother with a bad vet elsewhere who kept telling me Whisks had mites when I was sure it was a hormone issue (started off with baldness on the flanks), one visit to Ann and she's on her 'HRT' and is doing fab.

Just very worried about what to do while we are away now...if I take him they will be apart for four nights, am worried trying to get them back together after this will spell disaster, but if I DON'T take him he won't be getting any treatment or his own space to eat properly :-(
 
I posted on Mikulinek's thread but forgot to update mine, tsk, so have copied the update onto here!

Tonight we fed separately on Wiebke's suggestion, removing JoJo and letting Bumble eat. I have never seen such an immediate change - after a few minutes of running around as if to make sure the coast was clear, he ate three bits of celery and a piece of carrot - this is more veg than he has had for the past week. He then ran up to my partner's hand looking for more, was wheeking a little bit, inquisitive about everything, a 'proper piggy' as all my others act.

Upon putting JoJo back in, JoJo has been horrible to Bumble and Bumble has gone back to being withdrawn and cowering in the corner...there was even a rather worrying scuffle which had me yelling at JoJo to leave him alone...

I think tomorrow morning they are being separated. It has been really hard to make this decision as they seemed to get on ok before, but I can't watch Bumble be treated like this in the hope they make it up in a few weeks time, he isn't getting the food and vits he needs and is not happy - the difference is amazing when they are apart. I want them both to be happy and right now they aren't.

My sister is going to put her allergies aside and make sure Bumble gets any cream etc he may need applied, I have promised to pay for her next athsma prescriptions lol.

I feel like a failure, but then I don't want them both to not be happy :-(
 
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