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Popps&Dais

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Hello,

Please may I ask your advice? Our oldest piggie is needing extra care and whilst happy and eating well, I know we’ve maybe not got as long as I’d like. We saw our vet last week as she’s losing weight.

Our other girl has been bereaved as a duo before and she grieved deeply. This time around things may be different as she’s been part of a trio with us and we lost one of them back in June.

We do have a boy who is next door to them so she wouldn’t be entirely alone this time.

I'm asking this now whilst we still have them both as I know we’ll maybe not be thinking straight when the sad time comes and we’ll not be ready but our little piggie will be.

There are two girl guinea pigs looking for a home near us. Is now the time to think about this or is it just best to wait and see what’s needed at the time? I’m not thinking of putting them all together so I’d keep the status quo going anyway. I’m also not sure if creating another trio would help her or if she’d maybe just like one new pal when needed.

Any advice would be wonderful. I don’t want to stress our older piggie, just let her be as loved and happy as possible. Whilst thinking of her friend too.

Thank you. I’m so grateful for this forum.
 
I'm sorry to hear that.

It really depends on you, your situation and what you can manage in terms of number of cages.

When the time comes and she is left as a single, can you not bond her with your boar?

In terms of the sow pair who need a home - it is worth noting that adding a single sow to an already bonded pair is the bonding that most often fails. Some bonded sow pairs are simply unwilling to accept another sow into their pairing. Therefore, if you get this sow pair, your sow may still never be able to live with them once she is single. You’ve got then got a single sow, a single boar and a sow pair all living separately.
It really comes down to whether you can manage that. If not, then it may just be best to wait until the time comes and she then can look to have a single piggy come and join her.
 
Piggies&buns said:
I'm sorry to hear that.

It really depends on you, your situation and what you can manage in terms of number of cages.

When the time comes and she is left as a single, can you not bond her with your boar?

In terms of the sow pair who need a home - it is worth noting that adding a single sow to an already bonded pair is the bonding that most often fails. Some bonded sow pairs are simply unwilling to accept another sow into their pairing. Therefore, if you get this sow pair, your sow may still never be able to live with them once she is single. You’ve got then got a single sow, a single boar and a sow pair all living separately.
It really comes down to whether you can manage that. If not, then it may just be best to wait until the time comes and she then can look to have a single piggy come and join her.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for helping me plan. It’s great to get your advice and for you to walk me through what the options are and what they may look like and things to consider. I think we’ll stay as we are for now. I still have memories of when we put our trio together and our bonded two nearly fell out with each other. Luckily it all worked out but I think your suggestion to adopt another single as and when needed makes most sense.
 
Popps&Dais said:
Hello,

Please may I ask your advice? Our oldest piggie is needing extra care and whilst happy and eating well, I know we’ve maybe not got as long as I’d like. We saw our vet last week as she’s losing weight.

Our other girl has been bereaved as a duo before and she grieved deeply. This time around things may be different as she’s been part of a trio with us and we lost one of them back in June.

We do have a boy who is next door to them so she wouldn’t be entirely alone this time.

I'm asking this now whilst we still have them both as I know we’ll maybe not be thinking straight when the sad time comes and we’ll not be ready but our little piggie will be.

There are two girl guinea pigs looking for a home near us. Is now the time to think about this or is it just best to wait and see what’s needed at the time? I’m not thinking of putting them all together so I’d keep the status quo going anyway. I’m also not sure if creating another trio would help her or if she’d maybe just like one new pal when needed.

Any advice would be wonderful. I don’t want to stress our older piggie, just let her be as loved and happy as possible. Whilst thinking of her friend too.

Thank you. I’m so grateful for this forum.
Click to expand...

Hi

Personally, I prefer to add a new companion before a passing to bolster the loss for the remaining companion and have done this several times with young sows or rescue born baby girls. It makes the transition so much easier for both the companion and for me as well, to be honest. The need to find new company after a loss is very stressful when you are already reeling; that's one pressure you won't have if you have the space and want to continue with your piggies.

What is important is that the new arrivals cannot challenge any frailer/older piggies of yours because acceptance won't happen. Older single sows are often not open for a relationship; I have had my share of old single widows who were not interested in sharing their territory. I have mostly depended on my neutered 'husboars' for initial acceptance of the babies. It doesn't always work out but that is in the nature of guinea pig bonding. There is never a guarantee so you will need a plan B in case things are not working out.


Here is a string of mine:
Young Gethin 'Dusky' with with his nearly 5 years older wives, sisters Ffwlbri 'Moonlight' and Tesni 'Sun-warmed' in 2017
IMG_6161_edited-2.webp

7 1/2 years old Ffwlbri with nearly 3 years old Gethin and 6 weeks old Carys 'Love' in 2018.
In fact, Ffwlbri lived on for another year.
DSC03588_edited-1.webp

5 years old Gethin with Carys and his new wife Tegeirian 'Orchid' in 2020.
Rhian helped Carys over the loss of her beloved 'daddy boar' when Gethin passed away adged 6 years in October 2021. They went to join a group of Tribe widows. Tegeirian sadly died last year from cancer but but Carys is now a frail 6 years old still living with other widowed sows and a young husboar.
DSCN2657_edited-2.webp


Here is another group string running in parallel:

Big Pioden 'Magpie' sadly lost all four wives within just a year which he'd taken over after the previous husboar Maelog's death; including the one who was younger than him. (2018)
IMG_7443_edited-1.webp

8 years old Hedydd 'Skylark' with baby Dryw 'Wren and ca. 5 years old Pioden just days before her death.
IMG_0522_edited-2.webp

8 years old Pioden meets baby cousins Llinos 'Linnet' and Lleian 'Smew' just 3 weeks before he made his journey to the Rainbow Bridge (November 2021). The three sows are still together although Dryw is starting to show her age at 5 years now.
DSCN4031_edited-1.webp

Dryw with her two runty companions who cannot challenge her DSCN5911_edited-1.webp

All the best with thinking it over.
 
Wiebke said:
Hi

Personally, I prefer to add a new companion before a passing to bolster the loss for the remaining companion and have done this several times with young sows or rescue born baby girls. It makes the transition so much easier for both the companion and for me as well, to be honest. The need to find new company after a loss is very stressful when you are already reeling; that's one pressure you won't have if you have the space and want to continue with your piggies.

What is important is that the new arrivals cannot challenge any frailer/older piggies of yours because acceptance won't happen. Older single sows are often not open for a relationship; I have had my share of old single widows who were not interested in sharing their territory. I have mostly depended on my neutered 'husboars' for initial acceptance of the babies. It doesn't always work out but that is in the nature of guinea pig bonding. There is never a guarantee so you will need a plan B in case things are not working out.


Here is a string of mine:
Young Gethin 'Dusky' with with his nearly 5 years older wives, sisters Ffwlbri 'Moonlight' and Tesni 'Sun-warmed' in 2017
View attachment 258162

7 1/2 years old Ffwlbri with nearly 3 years old Gethin and 6 weeks old Carys 'Love' in 2018.
In fact, Ffwlbri lived on for another year.
View attachment 258163

5 years old Gethin with Carys and his new wife Tegeirian 'Orchid' in 2020.
Rhian helped Carys over the loss of her beloved 'daddy boar' when Gethin passed away adged 6 years in October 2021. They went to join a group of Tribe widows. Tegeirian sadly died last year from cancer but but Carys is now a frail 6 years old still living with other widowed sows and a young husboar.
View attachment 258164


Here is another group string running in parallel:

Big Pioden 'Magpie' sadly lost all four wives within just a year which he'd taken over after the previous husboar Maelog's death; including the one who was younger than him. (2018)
View attachment 258165

8 years old Hedydd 'Skylark' with baby Dryw 'Wren and ca. 5 years old Pioden just days before her death.
View attachment 258166

8 years old Pioden meets baby cousins Llinos 'Linnet' and Lleian 'Smew' just 3 weeks before he made his journey to the Rainbow Bridge (November 2021). The three sows are still together although Dryw is starting to show her age at 5 years now.
View attachment 258167

Dryw with her two runty companions who cannot challenge her View attachment 258169

All the best with thinking it over.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for sharing all the groupings and what you’ve found worked. I loved looking through the pictures and will give it some thought.
 
Our beautiful 8 year old pig crossed during the night. She had such a joyous day yesterday of running, food and burrowing in hay. In the way that she could and she looked so peaceful this morning.

Our 6 year old is now a single piggy. Well she has our single boar next door so not entirely alone and I think that’s helping. She said her goodbyes and seems ok for now. It already feels so empty here.

We have a 2x5 C&C which is currently set out for ease of mobility but used to have an upper 2x2. What are my possibilities? Because she’s 6 herself, I’m thinking to re-home more than one. Acknowledging from previous comments that trios are tricky to bond. There is pair of females available near us who are 18 months and 8 weeks. Our piggy has been quite dominant so that needs taking into account. There’s a rescue a while away with females so that’s maybe an option too but they’re not open today.

Honestly, we are so not ready to consider this but I know she needs us to. Thank you for any advice you’re able to give. I’ve read all the bonding links - so helpful.
 
Popps&Dais said:
Our beautiful 8 year old pig crossed during the night. She had such a joyous day yesterday of running, food and burrowing in hay. In the way that she could and she looked so peaceful this morning.

Our 6 year old is now a single piggy. Well she has our single boar next door so not entirely alone and I think that’s helping. She said her goodbyes and seems ok for now. It already feels so empty here.

We have a 2x5 C&C which is currently set out for ease of mobility but used to have an upper 2x2. What are my possibilities? Because she’s 6 herself, I’m thinking to re-home more than one. Acknowledging from previous comments that trios are tricky to bond. There is pair of females available near us who are 18 months and 8 weeks. Our piggy has been quite dominant so that needs taking into account. There’s a rescue a while away with females so that’s maybe an option too but they’re not open today.

Honestly, we are so not ready to consider this but I know she needs us to. Thank you for any advice you’re able to give. I’ve read all the bonding links - so helpful.
Click to expand...
Meant to add that there is potentially a neutered boar at another rescue. Our one isn’t neutered on the advice of the vet and so I can’t add him.
 
Popps&Dais said:
Our beautiful 8 year old pig crossed during the night. She had such a joyous day yesterday of running, food and burrowing in hay. In the way that she could and she looked so peaceful this morning.

Our 6 year old is now a single piggy. Well she has our single boar next door so not entirely alone and I think that’s helping. She said her goodbyes and seems ok for now. It already feels so empty here.

We have a 2x5 C&C which is currently set out for ease of mobility but used to have an upper 2x2. What are my possibilities? Because she’s 6 herself, I’m thinking to re-home more than one. Acknowledging from previous comments that trios are tricky to bond. There is pair of females available near us who are 18 months and 8 weeks. Our piggy has been quite dominant so that needs taking into account. There’s a rescue a while away with females so that’s maybe an option too but they’re not open today.

Honestly, we are so not ready to consider this but I know she needs us to. Thank you for any advice you’re able to give. I’ve read all the bonding links - so helpful.
Click to expand...

Hi

BIG HUGS

I am very sorry for your loss but glad that it was a peaceful and quick journey to the Rainbow Bridge.

If your remaining piggy is eating and drinking and coping with being on her own, then please give her time to do her own grieving. Guinea pigs don't feel any less deeply than us and we should respect that unless they are clearly no coping. Not all of them; especially older sows, are actually open for new companionship in any form.

I have had quite a few single oldies over the years who would not accept any new company, be that other widows, a neutered boar or young sows. At one point I had three of them, none of which would accept any others. It took me about 10 months to sort them all out - two of them would eventually go together and the third would be accepted by her sister and her 5 years younger toy boar on the second or third bonding attempt.

Acute pining is actually rare and is generally the result of an emotional dependency and an extremely close bond. Most piggies come out of deep mourning within a few days. But I have also had single old sows who just preferred to have a feud through the bars with any neighbours but they were most decidedly not willing to share their space with any other piggy.

The sow pair you are thinking about may likely not work out. 18 months is an adult; she is a group leader herself and she will be able to challenge. If your remaining sow and your boar are getting on through the bars, then please don't rush out and bring a new headache home in the form of needing a third a cage because of a failed bonding. Companionship through the bars is still companionship and may be all our remaining dominant sow wants for the remainder of her life. Be patient and wait until the right piggies come your way because you have already covered the immediate social needs.

In my examples I have used the still living older companion as the acceptance enabler; this crucial role you have now lost. Not every single/bereaved sow will also accept two baby sows as I have experienced myself and we have also seen from forum members.
If you can, please date and be realistic. All you can ever do is give your piggies opportunities but it is their choice - and not yours - whether they want to take them. You will in any case need a plan B for the case of a filed bonding before you go out and bring more piggies home but there is no rush. With an eating/drinking piggy without any company at all, you are ideally looking at a window of 1-4 weeks; with next door company, you have all the time you need without putting yourself and your bereaved piggy under undue pressure.

Here is our advice for bereaved companions:
Wiebke

Thread 'Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig'

1 What can I do immediately after a guinea pig has died?
- Saying goodbye
- What can I do for my grieving piggy?
- Emergency: acute pining (not eating/drinking) or sudden illness
2 New companionship and human grieving
- When can I start looking for a new mate?
- "Replacing" a guinea pig: the conflict between human and cavy needs
- How do I best go about finding a new mate? (Possible options listed for bereaved sows and boars)...

Here is what you can do for yourself in the coming days and weeks. Since you have very obviously been braced for a loss for a little while now, you will already have done some of your grieving underneath it all without you really noticing, so you should have a bit easier ride now.
Wiebke

Thread 'Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children'

1 The grieving process
- Loss and the start of the grieving process
- Grieving with a terminally ill guinea pig
- Going through the grieving process
2 Ways of coping
- Expressing and processing your feelings
- Regaining your guinea pig
- Burial and marking the passing
- Dealing with special days
3 How do I tell my children?
- Finding local support lines and charities...
  • Like

Just give your remaining piggies the most loving gift you can: allow them their own say how they want to live out their life and give them the space and time to do their own grieving now that things have come to a head a bit sooner than expected. The rules in the game have changed and you are dealing with different dynamics.
 
Wiebke said:
Hi

BIG HUGS

I am very sorry for your loss but glad that it was a peaceful and quick journey to the Rainbow Bridge.

If your remaining piggy is eating and drinking and coping with being on her own, then please give her time to do her own grieving. Guinea pigs don't feel any less deeply than us and we should respect that unless they are clearly no coping. Not all of them; especially older sows, are actually open for new companionship in any form.

I have had quite a few single oldies over the years who would not accept any new company, be that other widows, a neutered boar or young sows. At one point I had three of them, none of which would accept any others. It took me about 10 months to sort them all out - two of them would eventually go together and the third would be accepted by her sister and her 5 years younger toy boar on the second or third bonding attempt.

Acute pining is actually rare and is generally the result of an emotional dependency and an extremely close bond. Most piggies come out of deep mourning within a few days. But I have also had single old sows who just preferred to have a feud through the bars with any neighbours but they were most decidedly not willing to share their space with any other piggy.

The sow pair you are thinking about may likely not work out. 18 months is an adult; she is a group leader herself and she will be able to challenge. If your remaining sow and your boar are getting on through the bars, then please don't rush out and bring a new headache home in the form of needing a third a cage because of a failed bonding. Companionship through the bars is still companionship and may be all our remaining dominant sow wants for the remainder of her life. Be patient and wait until the right piggies come your way because you have already covered the immediate social needs.

In my examples I have used the still living older companion as the acceptance enabler; this crucial role you have now lost. Not every single/bereaved sow will also accept two baby sows as I have experienced myself and we have also seen from forum members.
If you can, please date and be realistic. All you can ever do is give your piggies opportunities but it is their choice - and not yours - whether they want to take them. You will in any case need a plan B for the case of a filed bonding before you go out and bring more piggies home but there is no rush. With an eating/drinking piggy without any company at all, you are ideally looking at a window of 1-4 weeks; with next door company, you have all the time you need without putting yourself and your bereaved piggy under undue pressure.

Here is our advice for bereaved companions:
Wiebke

Thread 'Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig'

1 What can I do immediately after a guinea pig has died?
- Saying goodbye
- What can I do for my grieving piggy?
- Emergency: acute pining (not eating/drinking) or sudden illness
2 New companionship and human grieving
- When can I start looking for a new mate?
- "Replacing" a guinea pig: the conflict between human and cavy needs
- How do I best go about finding a new mate? (Possible options listed for bereaved sows and boars)...

Here is what you can do for yourself in the coming days and weeks. Since you have very obviously been braced for a loss for a little while now, you will already have done some of your grieving underneath it all without you really noticing, so you should have a bit easier ride now.
Wiebke

Thread 'Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children'

1 The grieving process
- Loss and the start of the grieving process
- Grieving with a terminally ill guinea pig
- Going through the grieving process
2 Ways of coping
- Expressing and processing your feelings
- Regaining your guinea pig
- Burial and marking the passing
- Dealing with special days
3 How do I tell my children?
- Finding local support lines and charities...
  • Like

Just give your remaining piggies the most loving gift you can: allow them their own say how they want to live out their life and give them the space and time to do their own grieving now that things have come to a head a bit sooner than expected. The rules in the game have changed and you are dealing with different dynamics.
Click to expand...
Thank you so so much Wiebke. It puts my mind at ease to know we have all the time we need for them and us. I hadn’t wanted to rush her but she went into acute pining when she lost her first pal and so I was concerned. This was four years ago though and today she is more stoical and I realise now, from your words, that this was a different relationship and she is more likely to grieve and be ok. Will keep an eye on her and if she wishes to be in her own space with our boar nearby then that’s grand too. Additional piggies will find their way to us when the time is right.

Honestly, I can’t thank you enough.
 
Popps&Dais said:
Thank you so so much Wiebke. It puts my mind at ease to know we have all the time we need for them and us. I hadn’t wanted to rush her but she went into acute pining when she lost her first pal and so I was concerned. This was four years ago though and today she is more stoical and I realise now, from your words, that this was a different relationship and she is more likely to grieve and be ok. Will keep an eye on her and if she wishes to be in her own space with our boar nearby then that’s grand too. Additional piggies will find their way to us when the time is right.

Honestly, I can’t thank you enough.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I am glad that I can help you. Young piggies can really struggle with being on their own but the second time round they have their first experience to fall back on.

If you can push your two cages next to each other so they can interact fully through the bars - scent, body language and voice, then that counts as next door interaction. If needed, you can short term just divide the larger cage and use a couple of grids from the other cage and some cable ties as an interaction enabling divider. As long as they cannot get out of their cage, single boars can live next to sows and will enjoy it, simply because they haven't got another boar to fall out with over female pheromones. Make sure that your boy hasn't got any elevation by the grids he can use for climbing over. I usually have the hay trays by the divider whenever I have singles or new piggies pre-bonding.

You may also find this guide here helpful for working out when a single is not getting enough social stimulation.

Wiebke

Thread 'Single Guinea Pigs - Challenges and Responsibilities'

Introduction
1 When is a 'single' really a single?
- Bought singles
- Fallen-out and aggressive piggies
- Bereaved guinea pigs
- No interest in other guinea pigs
- Disabled and special needs guinea pigs
2 Companionship options (with pros and cons)
- Dating
- De-sexing (neutering or spaying)
- Living alongside
- Buying a baby companion
3 Caring for single guinea...
  • Like
 
Wiebke said:
Thank you. I am glad that I can help you. Young piggies can really struggle with being on their own but the second time round they have their first experience to fall back on.

If you can push your two cages next to each other so they can interact fully through the bars - scent, body language and voice, then that counts as next door interaction. If needed, you can short term just divide the larger cage and use a couple of grids from the other cage and some cable ties as an interaction enabling divider. As long as they cannot get out of their cage, single boars can live next to sows and will enjoy it, simply because they haven't got another boar to fall out with over female pheromones. Make sure that your boy hasn't got any elevation by the grids he can use for climbing over. I usually have the hay trays by the divider whenever I have singles or new piggies pre-bonding.

You may also find this guide here helpful for working out when a single is not getting enough social stimulation.

Wiebke

Thread 'Single Guinea Pigs - Challenges and Responsibilities'

Introduction
1 When is a 'single' really a single?
- Bought singles
- Fallen-out and aggressive piggies
- Bereaved guinea pigs
- No interest in other guinea pigs
- Disabled and special needs guinea pigs
2 Companionship options (with pros and cons)
- Dating
- De-sexing (neutering or spaying)
- Living alongside
- Buying a baby companion
3 Caring for single guinea...
  • Like
Click to expand...
Thank you so much again. That’s great to have other options. I can easily move them closer together and divide the larger space if needed.
 
Popps&Dais said:
Thank you so much again. That’s great to have other options. I can easily move them closer together and divide the larger space if needed.
Click to expand...
Popps&Dais said:
Thank you so much again. That’s great to have other options. I can easily move them closer together and divide the larger space if needed.
Click to expand...

If you can stretch as far as a 2x6 or a 2x8 grid cage out of your two separate cages, you get two adjoining cages with a grid divider out of it. I have that arrangement on my back table with a 2x7 grid cage. At the moment, Sulwen and Merlin are living there side by side with regular roaming time around the ground floor cages but over the years I have also had groups living up there. I would recommend to cable tie any sparating grids so they cannot be wiggled loose by a piggy desperate to get into the other cage. A 2x8 cage could be divided into a 2x5 and a 2x3 cage later on if you want to plan ahead.

But it would be a longer term option for you. You can adopt another pair of younger piggies anytime you find some that really speak to your heart but you won't have the pressure of making it work and you won't be under any time constraint. Or gender constraint.
 
Wiebke said:
If you can stretch as far as a 2x6 or a 2x8 grid cage out of your two separate cages, you get two adjoining cages with a grid divider out of it. I have that arrangement on my back table with a 2x7 grid cage. At the moment, Sulwen and Merlin are living there side by side with regular roaming time around the ground floor cages but over the years I have also had groups living up there. I would recommend to cable tie any sparating grids so they cannot be wiggled loose by a piggy desperate to get into the other cage. A 2x8 cage could be divided into a 2x5 and a 2x3 cage later on if you want to plan ahead.

But it would be a longer term option for you. You can adopt another pair of younger piggies anytime you find some that really speak to your heart but you won't have the pressure of making it work and you won't be under any time constraint. Or gender constraint.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I was starting to wonder this myself earlier & considering configurations and different shapes. Then I pop in here and see your reply. I’m a bit constrained by the dimensions of the room but maybe inspiration will come to me.
 
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