Wheeking When Weeing

[Jesse's pigs]

So hi guys it seems for every good post I make something goes wrong! So I moved Mo into his cage yesterday and he's all excited and happy. Pooing fine and urinating fine. All night aswell (I went to sleep at 12 pm) and I'm a light sleeper with him next to my bed.

The bad stuff starts the smorning. He's pooing fine etc but wheeking when urinating! I'm so worried! He's only 1 and so months and everything seems to be happening. I don't understand - I belive it happens if they have stones or a urinary tract infection. He isn't fed a high calcium diet as in I don't give him dark green veg alot or carrots etc. This week he's had lettuce, fresh grass and a strawberry yesterday. He usually has cucumber,lettuce and a bell pepper salad. He went out on the grass yesterday but it was hot.

I've linked pictures of his cage fleece. This fleece is new and was put on yesterday at around 5 till this smorning when I'm cleaning him out now. I don't know if it's showing the urine spots because it's so dark or if it's bad. Obviously I'll take him to the vets. But are their other symptoms I should be seeing for a UTI or stones? And I don't have a good cavy savy vet around - he's registered with Vets 4 pets. Will that vets be ok 4 a consultation?

 

[Jesse's pigs]

He's popcorning just now as I've cleaned him out and I've just had him sit in warm water for a minute incase it was a bit of dirt or hay. He's just wolfed down lettuce and looks nightly confused at what the fuss is about. He won't be able to go the vets right at this second cos I'm going to school and the rest of the family is at work (they start at 5 come home at 3/4) I will see what he's like this afternoon and ring the vets once I'm home. I just hope he's ok. Does this mean surgery? More antibiotics?

 

[rome_italy]

I think you have caught it in time, whatever it is... maybe it is only a single episode... maybe there is nothing serious...
I see some white spots on the fleece, especially in the last picture on the right corner above, under the poo... it does not look like talcum powder, am I wrong?
Lettuce, for unknown reasons, seems to be able to increase the expelled calcium in urine, but this is not bad. The bad is having a high level of phosphorus in food, higher than the level of calcium. Body absorbs one molecule of calcium ( and it goes to the blood, to the bones, and so on) only if there is also a molecule of phosphorus; if not, the calcium goes away... For this reason it is not correct be focussed only to the amount of calcium in the diet. Are you feeding him with pellets? Have you noticed whether he is drinking more than usual? and: does he drink a lot? this is another sign of something wrong in the diet (too much pellets) and/or with the bladder/kidneys.
But I am sure you have caught everything in time and if it is an UTI, don't worry, he will recover with a simple treatment. He is a young boy... Anyway this episode sounds as an alert, therefore I would suggest you to make some calculation for being sure the meals are correctly balanced (Guinea Lynx has a calculator online). For example months ago I realised that my meals were imbalanced; too much phosphorus and in fact the urine had calcium residuals.
Pay attention to the water, too.
Before going to the vet I suggest you to buy a bottle of a water with a very low fixed residue, it is a number written in the label; buy a water with a residual of 15-20mg/l which is used for preparing milk for newborns. I would syringe him often during the day with this water. I would add also some drops of cranberry but this is your choice, many people don't trust it. My piggies love it.
Remove the pellets (and this was suggested by a vet when a friend of mine saw blood in her piggie's urine), feed the piggie with more grass and it is quite sure the problem will stop. My friend's piggie recovered with the right diet, although he was diagnosed with little stones into the bladder. She started syringing the pigge with a lot of water, the one for kidneys' stones and the one for newborns. Then she trew pellets away to the bin and the trouble did not come back again.

 

[Wiebke]

Just keep an eye on him and see how it goes.

Stones are rather unlikely but a urinary tract infection can happen to anypig, especially when indoors piggies go out on the lawn and it is still a bit damp/cold or stay out for a bit too long. The onset of a UTI is often not quite as clearly defined, as not every pee is painful or contains blood. Not every red pee is actually bloody, but clear pees can actually score high on blood - believe me; I have been there plenty of times with piggies of mine!

Unless you have clear and consistent symptoms, it is also difficult for any vet to diagnose a UTI. For the moment, just go on observation and take a deep breath!

 

[Jesse's pigs]

Okay thank you all i really appreciate it its just horrible hearing him do it. There's no blood visibly and it's not power it's just really white. So I should hold off a vet visit at the moment?

 

[Wiebke]

Okay thank you all i really appreciate it its just horrible hearing him do it. There's no blood visibly and it's not power it's just really white. So I should hold off a vet visit at the moment?

I would perhaps wait a day or two and then see a vet for a reliable diagnosis. Calcium pees are not at all uncommon at the very start of a UTI. Once you either notice very stale smelling pees or red pees (please note that it is usually a very strong oxidation from urine bacteria and not necessarily lots of blood in the urine), you know that you have got a UTI. They are pretty common at this time of year, especially in the wake of period of warm/hot weather.

 

[rome_italy]

don't wash that part of fleece because if you are going to the vet you can show that to him. Sometimes the blood is not visible on the urine, as the urine itself is often orange and dark; there is a method for checking it: when your piggie has his floor time and probably will wee on the floor, put on that "puddle" of pee some hydrogen peroxide (maybe you have it at home). If it starts "foaming" some blood is inside.
Anyway, don't worry... in any case there are good treatments.

 

[Jesse's pigs]

I will hang tight and see how it goes then. I'll give it till Thursday. I think I will try the cranberry juice and I'll give him grass. Not sure about not giving pellets though because he's so used to them. I've come home now and so far I haven't seen him wee - only been back 15 minutes but he's clearly been eating hay and his breakfast pellets and done a few poos but not as many as usual.

@Wiebke do you agree with the cranberry juice idea and grass etc? And waiting till Thursday? I cannot see any blood though I know as you've said that doesn't mean that there isn't any. Is there any good veg I should give? And could it improve by itself as in him be better by Thursday or is this definitely gonna need a vet at some point and medicine? (I'm definitely going to book a checkup anyway even if he us better)

Thank you both once again @Wiebke and @rome_italy I'll definitely calm down a bit. I suppose it's like when we sometimes have the odd painful wee? I feel as though it could be the grass - I really felt it was hot cos my tortoises were out also but I'm definitely going to review his diet.

 

[Jesse's pigs]

don't wash that part of fleece because if you are going to the vet you can show that to him. Sometimes the blood is not visible on the urine, as the urine itself is often orange and dark; there is a method for checking it: when your piggie has his floor time and probably will wee on the floor, put on that "puddle" of pee some hydrogen peroxide (maybe you have it at home). If it starts "foaming" some blood is inside.
Anyway, don't worry... in any case there are good treatments.

Yeah I will keep the fleece and also the pictures. I've heard of some oxbow treats that apparently help minimise the calcium deposits to prevent stones etc but I'm not sure if this is true or even healthy?

 

[rome_italy]

I don't know this product...
about cranberry juice (100% and then you have to diluite it) it works as a prevention for infection because it seems to impede bacteria stuck on the "walls" of the bladder... that is its action, if it works. Anyway when I suffered for a bad inflammation and all bacteria were killed I had a great pain during weeing and when I drank half grass of cranberry the wee during the day was normal, when I stopped drinking the pain was great (and the blood visible again). There is some owner who had the same experience with piggies; my vet for example says "it will not hurt for sure" (my piggie seemed to have some pain in her bladder). I use cranberry only because my piggies don't like plain water and don't drink a single drop of it! I add some drops of cranberry juice and they drink some syringe...
Once I had a talk with a vet, friend of mine: he said that nowadays all the cats are fed with dried food and all the cats develop kidney troubles. The cats fed in a natural way don't develop such diseases. About the pigs I don't know many owners, but some days ago, in another thread @furryfriends (TEAS) wrote: "The piggies at TEAS eat a hay and grass diet all year round, with a small amount of vegetables once a day and nuggets are fed as a treat rather than a meal. I have never had a bladder issue (infection, stone etc) with any of them. Their bodies are designed to eat this sort of diet. This is the reason that their teeth grow continuously, as eating a very abrasive diet, such as grass, would wear the teeth away in no time." and these are exactly the words of my vet whose wife is the owner of two very old piggies who never developed any issues with the bladder...
I am extremely distrustful of dried food. But as medical researches are all supported and financed by pharma (for us) and petfood industry (for them) I don't think there will ever be published a serious comparative study in such subject...

 

[Jesse's pigs]

I don't know this product...
about cranberry juice (100% and then you have to diluite it) it works as a prevention for infection because it seems to impede bacteria stuck on the "walls" of the bladder... that is its action, if it works. Anyway when I suffered for a bad inflammation and all bacteria were killed I had a great pain during weeing and when I drank half grass of cranberry the wee during the day was normal, when I stopped drinking the pain was great (and the blood visible again). There is some owner who had the same experience with piggies; my vet for example says "it will not hurt for sure" (my piggie seemed to have some pain in her bladder). I use cranberry only because my piggies don't like plain water and don't drink a single drop of it! I add some drops of cranberry juice and they drink some syringe...
Once I had a talk with a vet, friend of mine: he said that nowadays all the cats are fed with dried food and all the cats develop kidney troubles. The cats fed in a natural way don't develop such diseases. About the pigs I don't know many owners, but some days ago, in another thread @furryfriends (TEAS) wrote: "The piggies at TEAS eat a hay and grass diet all year round, with a small amount of vegetables once a day and nuggets are fed as a treat rather than a meal. I have never had a bladder issue (infection, stone etc) with any of them. Their bodies are designed to eat this sort of diet. This is the reason that their teeth grow continuously, as eating a very abrasive diet, such as grass, would wear the teeth away in no time." and these are exactly the words of my vet whose wife is the owner of two very old piggies who never developed any issues with the bladder...
I am extremely distrustful of dried food. But as medical researches are all supported and financed by pharma (for us) and petfood industry (for them) I don't think there will ever be published a serious comparative study in such subject...

I do like the idea of a no pellet diet if it's healthier. I've only given him pellets because it's what he's always had and known. Is there a way I can wean him off or is it just as simple as cutting down the amount of pellets until he had just hay grass and veg?

 

[rome_italy]

I do like the idea of a no pellet diet if it's healthier. I've only given him pellets because it's what he's always had and known. Is there a way I can wean him off or is it just as simple as cutting down the amount of pellets until he had just hay grass and veg?

of course it is like with children (and old grandparents): if you want to change something, it depends on YOU only. We are "piggies-slaves" okay, but we have a brain and we don't want to hurt them. And a pet is not food-addicted like many humans; he loves being cuddled. I had a piggie who got used to the wrong diet learnt into the shop and I paid at home all the consequences (bladder issues, kidney failure, death) as he never lost that bad habit. You could just reduce the amount of pellets. If he is waiting of his bowl of pellets at a certain time of the day, you will give them to him, but a bit less than the day before... I did the same with mine, as they learnt to eat very well at the rescue, but they weren't used to the fresh grass. I started with a little amount, then more and more and now fresh grass is their main food (and I see great differences in wee and poo quality). It is better to change the diet gradually and give them some pellets only for one reason: in case of lost of appetite pellets mashed with water is the only food which you can syringe... it is better if their gut and their mouth are used to that kind of food.
How is he today?

 

[Jesse's pigs]

Since I've come home I've had him out for floor time and he's popcorned from one side of the room to the other and then done the same in his cage while I'm attempting to clean him out! You'd think I was lying about how he was the smorning lol. I've given him some cucumber and a new fresh handful of hay which he's digging into. I've seen him do a wee and he didn't squeak for that one just did what he normally does but I'm still alert cos he definitely wasn't weeing fine the smorning.

 

[rome_italy]

very good news!
I think it was an odd episode, anyway you should considert that maybe his bladder is delicate. Try to weigh one of his daily doses of vegs and go to excel calculator online by Guinea Lynx
Guinea Lynx :: Nutrition Charts
open the excel page and write all the single weights of your vegs. Just out of curiosity, for checking the ratio Calcium/Phosforus, because if one day it is wrong it doesn't matter, but if you realise that every day the diet is not well balanced this could be a risk for the bladder...
I have found it very useful... (it has nothing to do with infections of course, but sometimes the pain is due to a little stone passing through the urethra)

 

[lexi468]

I do like the idea of a no pellet diet if it's healthier. I've only given him pellets because it's what he's always had and known. Is there a way I can wean him off or is it just as simple as cutting down the amount of pellets until he had just hay grass and veg?

Pellets, in my opinion and a lot of others, are important. Unless you are really knowledgeable about all of the fruits and veggies you are feeding your pig, pellets are necessary. Pigs NEED a certain amount of vitamin c that is difficult to incorporate into their veggies unless you know exactly what you are doing. Oxbow is a great brand for pellets. Feed 1/8 of a cup per day, which is a very small amount, if you want to cut back. I've recently done this with my pig. But the consequences of your pig not getting enough vitamin c are far greater than the price or hassle of feeding him a few pellets per day to ensure he gets enough vitamin c. Plus, he will think it's a treat!

 

[Jesse's pigs]

Pellets, in my opinion and a lot of others, are important. Unless you are really knowledgeable about all of the fruits and veggies you are feeding your pig, pellets are necessary. Pigs NEED a certain amount of vitamin c that is difficult to incorporate into their veggies unless you know exactly what you are doing. Oxbow is a great brand for pellets. Feed 1/8 of a cup per day, which is a very small amount, if you want to cut back. I've recently done this with my pig. But the consequences of your pig not getting enough vitamin c are far greater than the price or hassle of feeding him a few pellets per day to ensure he gets enough vitamin c. Plus, he will think it's a treat!

Yeah I don't think I would take his pellets away completely because it is all his known and it depends on how he reacts. Oxbow - I'm trying them then! I'm going to bump up his grass and mix with his hay and lessen the lettuce intake and see how that impacts on his toileting. I was going to change his pellets brand now I'm back from holiday anyway because I'm not 100% happy with it and wanted a better option.

 

[lexi468]

Yeah I don't think I would take his pellets away completely because it is all his known and it depends on how he reacts. Oxbow - I'm trying them then! I'm going to bump up his grass and mix with his hay and lessen the lettuce intake and see how that impacts on his toileting. I was going to change his pellets brand now I'm back from holiday anyway because I'm not 100% happy with it and wanted a better option.

Oxbow is definitely a good one. My pigs love it. There are other brands out there that are good as well. The key thing is to make sure it doesn't have any nuts/seeds or colored bits. They should be just plain brown pellets. The next important thing is to make sure they're not made with alfalfa hay, or mostly corn.
It sounds like you're trying to do the best for your pig! That is awesome!

 

[rome_italy]

it is a pity that also Oxbow puts inside his pellets carbohydrates... which increases insulin... and a high level of insulin is linked with ovarian cysts in women... but the reasearches of such cysts were made just on female guinea pigs... a coincidence? and what's about diabetes and obesity? If a pellet must be considerated as a supplement of vitamins, I would prefer giving vitamins alone... if it contains only dried grass, I prefer real grass; if it has flours and glucides (read the label, please) maybe my piggies would prefer spaghetti.
But this is a choice of course... and a last thing: if such pellets are necessary (?) how is it possible that piggies who don't eat them (a lot) grow up normally and don't even develop the usual health troubles?
Oxbow made only a great product: the Critical Care.

 

[Jesse's pigs]

Oxbow is definitely a good one. My pigs love it. There are other brands out there that are good as well. The key thing is to make sure it doesn't have any nuts/seeds or colored bits. They should be just plain brown pellets. The next important thing is to make sure they're not made with alfalfa hay, or mostly corn.
It sounds like you're trying to do the best for your pig! That is awesome!

Thank you I try to do whatever is the best for him so he's here for as long as possible. Next step is a friend.

 

[Jesse's pigs]

So I haven't heard him squeak whilst weeing since Monday but he's just dine it again now? I thought that if it was a UTI it would've worsened by now or at least have become apparent and if it was stones then it'd hurt everytime and they'd be blood?

He's still eating and pooing fine and as I said until now it's been fine. Should I be worried or is it possible it's just a rare occurrence that might happen occasionally

 

[Jesse's pigs]

I'm cleaning him out now and he's just weed on the paper beneath the fleece I've took out and there's no red in it at all. Looks normal to me?

 

[Jesse's pigs]

@Wiebke @sport_billy

 

[Wiebke]

I'm cleaning him out now and he's just weed on the paper beneath the fleece I've took out and there's no red in it at all. Looks normal to me?

View attachment 64774

Without testing there is no way to determine whether clear pee (or red-coloured one at that) actually contains blood or not. Unfortunately, it is not quite as straight forward as clear pee not having any blood and reddish pee being full of it.

If in doubt and if the squeeking continues, please book an appointment at your vets.

That is normal looking pee, yes.

 

[rome_italy]

I'm cleaning him out now and he's just weed on the paper beneath the fleece I've took out and there's no red in it at all. Looks normal to me?

View attachment 64774

very good! keep always the newspapers underneath, they are good for checking the colour and the quality of the wee. Consider that it is normal even when the colour is light brown/orange. But this one seems to be clear...
I don't know if I have told you before, but if you want to check the presence of the blood, you can put some drops of peroxide hydrogen on the wet spot and if some foam appears it means that some blood is hidden there; if not it is can be reddish/brown only as a normal colour. (of course this is a simple and handmade method...)

 

[Jesse's pigs]

Okay sorry guys I seem to be making you repeat yourselves. It's stopped again now so I'm really kinda confused. For awhile it seems like it really hurts and then he's back to normal again? I'm going to keep my eye on it and book a checkup at the vets. I'll bring up the squeaking while urinating and see what they suggest. I dint want him to be put on antibiotics etc unless absolutely neccessary because last time he got diarrhea and went off his food.

 

[Wiebke]

Okay sorry guys I seem to be making you repeat yourselves. It's stopped again now so I'm really kinda confused. For awhile it seems like it really hurts and then he's back to normal again? I'm going to keep my eye on it and book a checkup at the vets. I'll bring up the squeaking while urinating and see what they suggest. I dint want him to be put on antibiotics etc unless absolutely neccessary because last time he got diarrhea and went off his food.

I there is no longer any wheeking and the urine is looking normal, I would just keep an eye on it and see a vet promptly if it starts again.

Please ask for a different antibiotic if there was a bad reaction last time. The best antibiotic for bladder issues is septrin/sulfatrim (sulfatrim is the new unflavoured vet version of adult human septrin), but as baytril is still the only officially licensed antibiotic for guinea pigs you may have to sign a disclaimer.