What is this behaviour I'm confused....

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Lone-Star 57

Lone-Star 57

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So I finally put the divide in the cage today only for some reason I could not get it to fit for the life of me...so I got frustrated and gave up! (I know that it's terrible)
Instead I cleaned out the cages and put them together in the same large supervised and well the behaviour that came out of them was odd. In the end Leo just wouldn't stop rumbling and chattering his teeth and though Zee didn't react everytime I put them back into seperate cages because their behaviour was so puzzeling to me....

Heres a video. This was done when I first put them together it did quite down. But I can't tell whether is a start of a fight or a game....
What's your opinions?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilry5mp79HI
 
Could be typical boar show off dominance style behaviour but it could calm down or spark off I think. I'd continue to supervise time spent together until you're more sure!

 
Zee looks so happy in that video, she's popcorning. I couldn't hear teeth chattering only rumbling which is perfectly normal. From that short clip I would say they are fine together and behaving normally for first introductions. You do need to be brave and leave them together for longer periods of time staying close by to keep an eye on them. If the teeth chattering is only gentle I wouldn't worry too much. Try and fit the divide again, it really will help them to be next to each other all the time. Good luck
 
The behaviour in the video is normal for introductions, the brown and white one (sorry I'm not sure which is which) is happy popcorning but I'd say this could easily go the other way. If you want to bond them start early in the day in a neutral space with just a pile of hay, no houses to hide in. Leave them in there but supervise them and have a towel ready incase you need to split them up. Mounting and rumbling is fine, perfectly normal, they've got to work out who's going to be the boss. If the teeth chattering gets too much it could turn nasty but don't jump in too soon, you've got to give them chance to work it out. If they go for each other in a nasty way, especially if they bite you have to seperate them, that's where the towel comes in! Don't use your hands to seperate them, that bite is nasty!
Don't keep seperating them either because they start back from square one.
There's a full guide on here about bonding, I'll find a link for you.
Good luck!
 
I had the same type of behaviour yesterday between my two bonded boars, all perfectly normal and they kissed and made up by the end of the day. Rumbling, bum wiggling and humping is perfectly normal behaviour, as were the nose offs. The popcorning is an indication that they are happy with the pairing but as this is an introduction as said, it is best to keep a very close eye on matters as it can go pear shaped if they both decide they want to be boss.

When I introduced my neutered boar with the 3 girls, he had been living next to them for a couple of weeks but things got quite hairy on first introductions. No blood was drawn and all 4 handled themselves well enough that I was able to keep them together from then on, a few minor scuffles continued for a couple of weeks afterwards but they all found their place with each other and are a close group now nearly a year on.
 
Thank you all so I did the wrong thing seperating them or no?
Also I thought Zee (Black and white) was biting him or was that just playful. Because I was thinking she was happy until she did the lungey thing at Leo (Brown and white) But she literally does bite him if he mounts her and then he puts himself in the same corner each time. Sometimes she just looks at him and he hides.

But what gets me more is that Zee seemed so dominant in the cage yet outside when I do floor time Leo seems to be the dominant one. I also felt like Zee was really liking him but Leo didnt want to know in the cage. Then when they are out at floor time together Leo loves Zee and she doesn't like him...why is this so hard.

Also I am freaking out because I havent been able to hold them today to have floor time because I went out to the market all day today and then tomorrow I have to dog sit and the dog is a little terrier who would eat them (He's killed frogs and squirills) So I wouldn't even be able to get them out while I have him. Thats in the day until evening and then my sister invited me out to the cinema in the afternoon.
So that'll be two whole introdcutions skipped. So the progress goes with it....auhhuuhh!
 
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when bonding boars the general advice is once you've put them together then you should see it through and unless there are no fights leave them together. However in your situation when bonding a male and female(if i read it correct) i do believe you can try several meetings before actually putting them together permanently without disrupting the bond. When i was bonding my neutered male and his two girlfriends with my other two females it took several months and a fair few meetings before they were living together - it would help a lot of you could have them living side by side whilst you are unable to do the meetings - allowing them chance to see/smell/speak to one another without and pressure and no way they can get to/hurt one another.

Have you tried a bonding bath? i did this when bonding my lot and it really helped. I would be tempted to wait until your female was in season before attempting the bonding again - she's more likely to 'accept' his manly advances ;)

for the first few wks after bonding my male/females things were quite tense between the females, but this soon died down and they wouldn't be without one another now - thankfully with just the one girl you dont have to worry about that.

It's also a good idea to set up an area for the bonding and start the bonding early on in the day - that way you'll have all day to monitor them :)

A good distraction is a dust pan - if things start to get a little tense place the dust pan in between the two pigs :)

Good luck....
 
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I assume leo is neutered to be living with zee.

I am by no way an expert but I have introduced in the past girls with girls and recently boys with girls successfully but even then I was nervous that things would go wrong or they wouldnt like each other as afterall we know they can be a little picky over their companions.

you may also find this thread interesting as this was written by me during the introduction of my neutered boar to the girls http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?90660-silver-meets-the-girls&highlight=silver

I was told that if acceptance happens in the first 30 mins then chances are they are fine together, having done both boars with the same girls - I had flash before silver who sadly died last year, it is a bit heart in mouth when the first get together as they do have to sort out the bounderies with each other and there were some quite alarming looking fights between silver and minty - full on fighting but still nothing serious, I describe them as more like fisticuffs in the guinea pig world as they were meant but never got serious. At one point I can only describe it as suddenly looking at two ninja guinea pigs as faces and back legs were flying in all directions but it lasted seconds and they broke off each other, had they disliked each other I dont doubt they would not have seperated like this and after such a quick time, nor was blood drawn or any fur pulled out by either.

I also was told that to expect the boar to be a little randy for a few weeks till he calms his hormones down, well who can blame him for wanting to prove his boarliness to his wifepig, but its only acceptable when they are actually on heat so the girls will tell him to back off often. Sure enough for a few weeks, progressively getting better and less, there was a lot of annoyed wheeks from the girls when silver was trying to prove his worth but he did get the message.

Basically as I was there for several days to keep an eye on things I introduced them, found that things had gone well enough after an hour and they remained together in the indoor pen for a few weeks before I moved them outside (due to the weather finally improving) into their hutch. Some introductions may take a little longer than mine did as each pig is different, going to stick my head on the line here and say had they been in my home and that was all the behaviours I had seen I would not have separated them, but if you are not about to keep an eye on them or you were unsure then there is nothing wrong with playing cautious but yes you do start from square one each time you introduce.
 
Leo is neutered (No little piggles for me thanks, lol), he was neutered sometime before I adopted him. However I waited 6 weeks from the day I brought him home just to be sure. So if I do the introduction again inside the cage without any hideys/tunnels/toys ect: how long do I wait to put these things in again weeks, months?
I'll put both of their bowls in there and water bottles lot's of hay and just watch.
From what I read so far Silver sounds alot like the way Leo is acting...so I am just stupid in the end. (My parents didn't help they were causing me to panic because they were I was going to leave them over night but they said nope!

Also how do I know if Zee's in heat? She is 5 years old will she still come into heat?
 
I always have more than one of everything to prevent hogging of the bowls or bottles, even beds and the best thing when newly bonding your pigs is to make sure there is nothing in the cage that could result in a cornered pig. So for instance an igloo with one entrance is not a good thing to put in, a plastic stool with open sides is. Tunnels should be fine as they are open at both ends so basically anything that isnt closed off will be fine to put in once the initial greeting has finished.

As you have the time to be able to do this I ask you, are the pigs currently living next to each other in seperate cages? If they are or divided up in the same cage, swap over things like the bowls and beds that smell of each other so they get used to the new smells, I did this for the two weeks before silver was safe to go with the girls. I would also as I think you mentioned they have met out of the cages, are you able to set up a nutral pen for them to meet in and keep them in this for at least the day, clean out fully the cage they both will be living in and keep it minimal when they go in together until they settle down again when you can put in open ended beds, hides and tunnels. If your worried about them feeling exposed then drape a towel or sheet over the top of a bit of the pen and then the cage so they feel secure but leave it so you still see in easily. Food bowls should be in there already, lots of hay too to keep them occupied - if they happily munch away then its going well, water of course but basics to start, after a few hours introduce the open hides, the following day introduce a few more open items they wont get trapped in but if they have accepted each other then it should only be weeks before any single entrance hides can go in, like a couple but do keep an eye on them and be prepared to remove if hogging/trapping happens.

Set aside a day where you and your parents are around so you can seperate - with a dustpan please, not hands, should things escalate into blood drawn fighting, if no blood is drawn, hold on in there and yes it will be a bit noisey, yes it will be a little hair raising to watch but stick with it and only seperate when blood is drawn.
 
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Now whilst inside the cage Leo will rumble around the whole perimeter of the cage and Zee will sometimes follow him (Almost up his bottom), but then he seems to get nervous and go around faster (Still rumbling) So Zee gets faster until they are both in a run and Zee'll popcorn but then Leo starts to freak out which then he'll sometimes go for Zee then she'll nip him back then he'll find the furthest corner and mumbles quietly.
Is this normal behaviour or has me leaving Zee alone for years made her unable to read Leo's and piggie behaviour in general.
 
The following around sounds perfectly normal; my two well-bonded boars do that. I don't have much experience other than boars but it is entirely possible that she needs I get used to other piggies behaviour if she's spent her life alone. To be honest it sounds to me like they're just having a little tiff and she's hen-pecking him a bit! It still wants supervision for awhile be it sounds ok to me. It's so stressful when they're getting used to each and arguing though!
 
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