What is the likelihood that my four boars will get along in the long run?

[thefourpoogies]

Hi, I’m new to this forum, so bare with me. Feel free to skip any parts. I just want to take the best shot for advice.

Background Information​

I have owned about three boys for a couple months now; one was adopted at 2-3 years old and the other two at less than 1-2 months. I’ve had KitKat (2-3 years old) and Hershey (4-5 months old) the longest, and Twix (4-5 months old) was adopted a month afterwards. Admittedly, my family is very impulsive and only one boar was adopted with actual intent and planning. They get along EXTREMELY well, EVEN NOW which surprised me because Hershey and Twix are in the age of when testosterone really hits (but it gets worse at 6 months, right?). I was happy with just my three little potato rodents.

Currently, they live in a 21 square foot C&C cage.

But anyway, my mother had brought home another boar (York, 3-5 months old). And I’ve already been worried about the bond of the herd being screwed over by inevitable hormones, but I’m even more stressed now. I’ve read so many articles about bonding over the past week.

I put them all in an exercise pen (although I searched more and saw that the space should’ve been BIGGER, sigh) with some hay and gave them lettuce after 10 minutes. The three oddly accepted him after half an hour and they all just,,, slept? I left them for another half hour, but they just relaxed and didn’t care anymore. I was so scared they’d start fighting because boar bonding looks so scary, but they just completely stopped after Twix (the most dominant pig) cooled off. The funniest part is that KitKat DIDN’T EVEN CARE. He just ate his hay, laid down, and walked over to me to get chin scratches. When I put them all in the actual cage after cleaning it, they just chilled together and ate their dinner. Twix even forced York out of a hidey so he’d go out and eat (something he does with the other pigs from what I’ve noticed, like he doesn’t start eating unless everyone’s there ?). And the youngsters all sleep next to each other now, while KitKat sleeps near the hay like he wants you to draw him like one of your French girls.

Personalities

From left to right - Twix, Hershey, and KitKat​

KitKat - EXTREMELY calm, laid back, cuddly with humans, has really HUGE eyes whenever he’s scared or excited, sleeps outside of the hideys sometimes, greets people whenever he sees them; honestly, he’d get along with most pigs

Hershey - the FOODIE of the group, always wheeks first and every time he hears me, always first to the food even though he’s not dominant, oddly a genius as he figures out things really quickly that the others can’t, slightly skittish but he’s getting A LOT better, “kisses“ you if you put him near your face, grooms the other pigs

Twix - rumblestruts at any given moment (even when I come and say hi), EXTREMELY talkative (like, if you say something to him, he oddly responds; I tested it out by talking nonstop and he talked back nonstop, and then, I stayed quiet for a while and he was just silent,,, then, I talked again and he talked again), plays around the most when it comes to the pipe and tents, skittish but he’s also getting better, dominant when it comes to the other pigs

York ft. our dog​

York (he’s new, but from what I’ve noticed) - gentle and friendly with humans, adjusting pretty easily with the schedule and his surroundings, extremely curious, likes exploring, popcorns A LOT

Concerns​

Boars can be so aggressive when they reach adolescence and it’s just scary. I’m open to separate them if needs be, but it’ll be such a shame since all of them get along right now. I want to know people’s opinions and just get some advice. I also just want to know if I did the bonding process (mostly) correctly. If you’ve had an experience where your baby boars were getting along, but grew up hating each other, I’d love to know your experience. Actually, I’d love to know everyone’s experience with bonding boys in general.

Thank you.

​

 

[xRoan]

Now, I'm no expert by any means, but from what I know and have read your best option would be to observe their behavior (who sleeps/eats/etc together) and then section them off into two pairs of two boars.

A 21 foot C&C cage is 2x7? They need a minimum of 2x5 per two boars and the bigger the better... IMO there will be issues that arise as your boys grow older. Trios and quartets are very rare.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Sadly, It’s incredibly rare to get a trio and definitely even rarer to get a quartet to make it to adulthood (14 months of age). As youngsters they are desperate to belong so things seem to go ok to begin with but quite often they will turn once the hormones really set in. This applies to pairs as well but it’s so much harder to get the balance of characters right when attempting more than two boars together and this is why they usually fail.

The cage won’t be nearly big enough for them. Ordinarily a 2x5 is the perfect size for two boars. With sow herds you would then normally just add another grid for each additional piggy but this doesn’t work when attempting to keep more than two boars together. The normal sizing rules don’t apply and the sizes have to be greatly increased.
To attempt a boar trio you are going to have to at least double your cage size - aiming for a minimum of 43 square feet. This converts to at least one square metre per boar - so a cage covering a minimum of 4 metres by 1 metres, roughly a c&c cage of 11x3 grids (if I’ve calculated properly). This is what is necessary to give them all enough territory and stand any chance of space not being an issue (As I said it’s character which is the most important factor so even if you can provide this space if still might not be enough to make it work). You can’t do anything to influence their compatibility.

Please do have a plan to separate.
I must also warn you that if things do turn sour it may not be as simple as being able to separate them into two pairs. It bonds get broken before you separate them, then there is a real possibility that all four could end up single. The other scenario is you might be able to make a functioning pair but the other two will end up not being able to make a pair and will need to be kept separately from each other (ie you will likely need somewhere between two and four separate cages going forward).

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

 

[Wiebke]

Hi, I’m new to this forum, so bare with me. Feel free to skip any parts. I just want to take the best shot for advice.

Background Information​

I have owned about three boys for a couple months now; one was adopted at 2-3 years old and the other two at less than 1-2 months. I’ve had KitKat (2-3 years old) and Hershey (4-5 months old) the longest, and Twix (4-5 months old) was adopted a month afterwards. Admittedly, my family is very impulsive and only one boar was adopted with actual intent and planning. They get along EXTREMELY well, EVEN NOW which surprised me because Hershey and Twix are in the age of when testosterone really hits (but it gets worse at 6 months, right?). I was happy with just my three little potato rodents.

Currently, they live in a 21 square foot C&C cage.

But anyway, my mother had brought home another boar (York, 3-5 months old). And I’ve already been worried about the bond of the herd being screwed over by inevitable hormones, but I’m even more stressed now. I’ve read so many articles about bonding over the past week.

I put them all in an exercise pen (although I searched more and saw that the space should’ve been BIGGER, sigh) with some hay and gave them lettuce after 10 minutes. The three oddly accepted him after half an hour and they all just,,, slept? I left them for another half hour, but they just relaxed and didn’t care anymore. I was so scared they’d start fighting because boar bonding looks so scary, but they just completely stopped after Twix (the most dominant pig) cooled off. The funniest part is that KitKat DIDN’T EVEN CARE. He just ate his hay, laid down, and walked over to me to get chin scratches. When I put them all in the actual cage after cleaning it, they just chilled together and ate their dinner. Twix even forced York out of a hidey so he’d go out and eat (something he does with the other pigs from what I’ve noticed, like he doesn’t start eating unless everyone’s there ?). And the youngsters all sleep next to each other now, while KitKat sleeps near the hay like he wants you to draw him like one of your French girls.

Personalities

View attachment 177450From left to right - Twix, Hershey, and KitKat​

KitKat - EXTREMELY calm, laid back, cuddly with humans, has really HUGE eyes whenever he’s scared or excited, sleeps outside of the hideys sometimes, greets people whenever he sees them; honestly, he’d get along with most pigs

Hershey - the FOODIE of the group, always wheeks first and every time he hears me, always first to the food even though he’s not dominant, oddly a genius as he figures out things really quickly that the others can’t, slightly skittish but he’s getting A LOT better, “kisses“ you if you put him near your face, grooms the other pigs

Twix - rumblestruts at any given moment (even when I come and say hi), EXTREMELY talkative (like, if you say something to him, he oddly responds; I tested it out by talking nonstop and he talked back nonstop, and then, I stayed quiet for a while and he was just silent,,, then, I talked again and he talked again), plays around the most when it comes to the pipe and tents, skittish but he’s also getting better, dominant when it comes to the other pigs

View attachment 177454
York ft. our dog​

York (he’s new, but from what I’ve noticed) - gentle and friendly with humans, adjusting pretty easily with the schedule and his surroundings, extremely curious, likes exploring, popcorns A LOT

Concerns​

Boars can be so aggressive when they reach adolescence and it’s just scary. I’m open to separate them if needs be, but it’ll be such a shame since all of them get along right now. I want to know people’s opinions and just get some advice. I also just want to know if I did the bonding process (mostly) correctly. If you’ve had an experience where your baby boars were getting along, but grew up hating each other, I’d love to know your experience. Actually, I’d love to know everyone’s experience with bonding boys in general.

Thank you.

View attachment 177455​

Hi and welcome

While there is the odd functional quartet, it is unfortunately one of the most unstable boar combos along with trios. Long term working quartets are rather the exception than the rule.

You are obviously very much working against their social instincts. Boars work in larger herds as long as they are well fed and have oodles of space or otherwise best in pairs or as a single neutered 'husboar' in sow groups. Bachelor bonds are generally less solid and more fleeting/flexible than those of sow groups.

The more dominant and teenage/sub-teenage boars you have in a trio or quartet, the higher the fall-out risk because of the intense teenage/young adult hormone spikes. It is all in the personality combination and the unique developing dynamics.
In our forum experience with dysfunctional quartets, the most likely outcome is a pair with two singles but we have seen a few cases on here where people have ended up four single boars refusing to live with any of the 3 others.

I would recommend to have at all times a plan B at the ready and know which boys will pair off best so you have chance of ending up with two stable pairs - but that is just the best possible outcome and not necessarily what you may be facing as you are dealing with individual, unique personalities bouncing off each other. You may also end up with just a single troublemaker...

If you offer lots of space, you don't get a guarantee for avoiding potential fall-outs. What you offer your boys is a chance to move away from the others and have their own little territory - basically the option for an amicable divorce that follows their natural behaviour of more temporary and looser associations on the fringes of a piggy herd. Too little space means that the weaker boar cannot move away and is forced to fight or be bullied if there are conflicts.

You have to ride the tiger and go with the flow; as long as you go into this with your eyes open and are able to divide the cage as needed at any time, then you are OK. There is no magic wand measure that can guarantee success.

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics (our comprehensive bonding and key interactive behaviours guide)
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

You may find this article series that I have written for Guinea Pig Magazine last year very interesting. Boar relationships and roles can differ quite a bit more in life than those of sows. It may help you understand the dynamics between your boys better. My new series starting in July is about guinea pig society from an even deeper, underpinning level and a closer look at what makes piggies tick and how we make use of the resulting behaviours in our daily life.
Journey through a Lifetime: The Ages of Guinea Pigs

 

[Free Ranger]

I'm not an expert but the way I'd be tempted to go is just monitor for now. If it breaks you won't fix it but if they seem to be getting along I wouldn't intervene unless I was planning to split permanently at that point. If you know the signs of fighting, biting, bullying or preventing each other from eating and you aren't seeing any of this you might just be a rare lucky ducky with a happy boar family? If they start breaking up after a while you'll have to decide then which way they will be split... but make that housing plan in advance

Your boys are lovely, but it makes me very uncomfortable to see dog/pig pictures like this. It only takes once... and even if your doggy doesn't recognise piggy as prey when he's sitting it might be different when he's moving or when a person isn't present. My friend's little doggy won't run after a ball if it is thrown, but roll it along the ground and he suddenly shoots after it as his rat-catching instincts are triggered. We've seen some very sad posts on the forum involving dogs - some of them much loved family pets - some just visitors to the piggy's home, and some involving dogs outside. One dog came over and suddenly took poor piggy from the owners lap before they realised what was happening. You don't actually want your pigs to learn to 'trust' dogs either... fear is their natural defence and they can suffer from shock even if there is no actual bite. Some piggies hearts can give out. And I hear vets in the US are pretty expensive. In addition, other new pig owners will see cute photos like this (and it is a very cute pic) and want to do one themselves, putting their pig at risk and their relationship with their dog on the line. I might be an old fuddy-duddy but I wouldn't want to encourage it. I hope it's OK that I say this now - I would hate for you to be breaking your heart and saying, "If only -". Protect them and you protect yourself x

 

[Bill & Ted]

Please do not let you doggy near your piggies even for one second as that’s all it takes for disaster to happen. But good luck with your beautiful quad of handsome boys x