What do I do if my senior guinea pig has stones?

[Cryptillian]

Going to give some context here. I am from the US, my pigs are given oxbow vitimin C supplement daily, cup of various veg (romaine, cucumber, bell pepper, carrot, strawberry blueberry, apple, watermelon rind, etc but only the romaine and bell pepper is really a daily thing, fruits are more of a treat and I give a variety depending on what’s at home but I try to avoid high calcium veg), 1/8 cup oxbow guinea pig pellet per pig daily, and tons of hay always. Pumba is in a 24 sq ft enclosure with fleece/towels spot cleaned daily deep cleaned every week.

I am going to call tomorrow to make an appointment with my exotic specialist for X-rays, but we cannot have him seen til Friday as my bank account is drained and my dad can’t help me until his paycheck. I have lost 2 seniors, one 8 and one 6. The 8 year old (Mocha) had to be put to sleep after developing sudden pneumonia overnight after almost 2 weeks of antibiotics for a stubborn URI in the nose and not improving and then my two other boys also got a mild URI two weeks later in the nose with similar vague symptoms and it took 3 weeks to see improvement. My 6 year old (Pete) got bloat and needed to be put to sleep, it was colon cancer (we had a necropsy done because I blame myself, I feel I must be doing something wrong). My vet said besides that he was such a healthy boy and it just caught up with him, but it’s still hard not to feel I must’ve made a mistake somehow for this all to happen at the same time. My 7 year old Pumba has now stopped antibiotics after almost 4 weeks finally his breathing is completely normal, but now the urinary issues.

This has all basically destroyed me emotionally and physically, the vet bills were over 3k USD and I had to have family help out as I am 21 year old disabled student and recently got diagnosed with a brain aneurysm which might possibly need to be operated on. I just never expected something like this to happen all at once, I had savings but I didn’t have enough for this and now I have nothing but I am trying to work as much as possible. My pigs are my world and this has been so hard, I have not been able to get him a new friend as it’s only been a week since the other passed and I wanted to wait til he would be all better.

Pumba began crying a few days ago while sometimes passing stools but only rarely when peeing, vet told me to give it a few days as Pumba was switched to Baytril (has been in for 11 days) from Bactrim (was on for 2 weeks) after it didn’t help with the breathing. He developed diarrhea on the baytril, stopped eating, lethargy, etc. and we started probiotics (Bene bac plus) after 2 hours of every antibiotic dose. Diarrhea has cleared up, he also is eating more hay (Timothy) and more active but not enough. Through all of this I’ve been giving him critical care every 3 hours and he is taking the amount provided on the bag for his weight everyday (like 4 tablespoons as he was 1236 grams when healthy, he’s only able to stay at 1200-1220 for now). He needed to go back on veg a few days after we stopped because he was dehydrated (yellow/hard poops) and going back on cleared it up within a day. He is only having some romaine and cucumber right now. I have bathed his bottom with warm water a few times when he soiled himself with pee/diarrhea to keep him clean, he has no urine scalding, his anal sac is clean. I’ve made sure he’s clean everyday when I do little checkups. I have examined his tummy and put some pressure, I do not feel anything nor does he react but obviously that doesn’t mean much.

This morning his urine smelled quite strong/bad/abnormal and I decided to put him on a white paper towel to see if there was anything I could see. It seems there is this extremely small amount of pink in his urine I can only assume is blood. I have sent this image to my vet and she told me to stop the antibiotics because she felt that it wasn’t worth it if he was not eating due to them and come in to have him X-rayed as he should not get a UTI while on antibiotics.

I have never had stones in any of my pigs and I’ve had 5 other senior males, but now I am afraid this might be the time I have to deal with this too.

So he will go to the vet in two days and I am in contact with the vet every day about his progress, but I am really just here to ask if he does have stones and needs to have surgery, is it worth it? Should he have the surgery or not? He is 7 years old but otherwise has always been healthy, this was the first health issue I’ve ever had with him. I just know how hard surgery is on these guys, especially when they are old, and if they tell me the bad news I just want to be prepared to have to make these hard decisions soon. I basically have been paranoid that I’m going to have to put him to sleep because of all the loss and I just want to know what I should do, what is the right thing to do for him is if this happens?

I will update how his appointment goes. For now I’m just trying my best to keep him fed and happy, sorry if this is confusing I am just so upset.

 

[Wiebke]

Going to give some context here. I am from the US, my pigs are given oxbow vitimin C supplement daily, cup of various veg (romaine, cucumber, bell pepper, carrot, strawberry blueberry, apple, watermelon rind, etc but only the romaine and bell pepper is really a daily thing, fruits are more of a treat and I give a variety depending on what’s at home but I try to avoid high calcium veg), 1/8 cup oxbow guinea pig pellet per pig daily, and tons of hay always. Pumba is in a 24 sq ft enclosure with fleece/towels spot cleaned daily deep cleaned every week.

I am going to call tomorrow to make an appointment with my exotic specialist for X-rays, but we cannot have him seen til Friday as my bank account is drained and my dad can’t help me until his paycheck. I have lost 2 seniors, one 8 and one 6. The 8 year old (Mocha) had to be put to sleep after developing sudden pneumonia overnight after almost 2 weeks of antibiotics for a stubborn URI in the nose and not improving and then my two other boys also got a mild URI two weeks later in the nose with similar vague symptoms and it took 3 weeks to see improvement. My 6 year old (Pete) got bloat and needed to be put to sleep, it was colon cancer (we had a necropsy done because I blame myself, I feel I must be doing something wrong). My vet said besides that he was such a healthy boy and it just caught up with him, but it’s still hard not to feel I must’ve made a mistake somehow for this all to happen at the same time. My 7 year old Pumba has now stopped antibiotics after almost 4 weeks finally his breathing is completely normal, but now the urinary issues.

This has all basically destroyed me emotionally and physically, the vet bills were over 3k USD and I had to have family help out as I am 21 year old disabled student and recently got diagnosed with a brain aneurysm which might possibly need to be operated on. I just never expected something like this to happen all at once, I had savings but I didn’t have enough for this and now I have nothing but I am trying to work as much as possible. My pigs are my world and this has been so hard, I have not been able to get him a new friend as it’s only been a week since the other passed and I wanted to wait til he would be all better.

Pumba began crying a few days ago while sometimes passing stools but only rarely when peeing, vet told me to give it a few days as Pumba was switched to Baytril (has been in for 11 days) from Bactrim (was on for 2 weeks) after it didn’t help with the breathing. He developed diarrhea on the baytril, stopped eating, lethargy, etc. and we started probiotics (Bene bac plus) after 2 hours of every antibiotic dose. Diarrhea has cleared up, he also is eating more hay (Timothy) and more active but not enough. Through all of this I’ve been giving him critical care every 3 hours and he is taking the amount provided on the bag for his weight everyday (like 4 tablespoons as he was 1236 grams when healthy, he’s only able to stay at 1200-1220 for now). He needed to go back on veg a few days after we stopped because he was dehydrated (yellow/hard poops) and going back on cleared it up within a day. He is only having some romaine and cucumber right now. I have bathed his bottom with warm water a few times when he soiled himself with pee/diarrhea to keep him clean, he has no urine scalding, his anal sac is clean. I’ve made sure he’s clean everyday when I do little checkups. I have examined his tummy and put some pressure, I do not feel anything nor does he react but obviously that doesn’t mean much.

This morning his urine smelled quite strong/bad/abnormal and I decided to put him on a white paper towel to see if there was anything I could see. It seems there is this extremely small amount of pink in his urine I can only assume is blood. I have sent this image to my vet and she told me to stop the antibiotics because she felt that it wasn’t worth it if he was not eating due to them and come in to have him X-rayed as he should not get a UTI while on antibiotics.

I have never had stones in any of my pigs and I’ve had 5 other senior males, but now I am afraid this might be the time I have to deal with this too.

So he will go to the vet in two days and I am in contact with the vet every day about his progress, but I am really just here to ask if he does have stones and needs to have surgery, is it worth it? Should he have the surgery or not? He is 7 years old but otherwise has always been healthy, this was the first health issue I’ve ever had with him. I just know how hard surgery is on these guys, especially when they are old, and if they tell me the bad news I just want to be prepared to have to make these hard decisions soon. I basically have been paranoid that I’m going to have to put him to sleep because of all the loss and I just want to know what I should do, what is the right thing to do for him is if this happens?

I will update how his appointment goes. For now I’m just trying my best to keep him fed and happy, sorry if this is confusing I am just so upset.

Hi and welcome

BIG HUGS

I am very sorry.

It always comes as a massive shock to us when we suddenly come face to face with the realisation that the life of one of our piggies may be coming to the end. The emotional upset is because this is in fact the moment when your grieving process kicks in and it is usually the second worst time apart from the actual loss. Perhaps that helps you to understand why you feel that you are currently feeling so overwhelmed with it coming after two more losses which will inevitably come up again in this kind of situation and add to the jitters.

7 years is right at the upper end of the average life span of 4-7 years (5-6 years is the peak). I cherish any piggy I can get to the upper half or even beyond that with my own adoptees; it is sadly not always possible when medical problem, genetic dispositions or unlucky circumstances get in the way. Be proud that you have got three of yours that far!

This looks like very diluted oxydising urine to me. The smell could mean that the infection is coming back with a vengeance. Any infections in the urinary tract are characterised at the onset by intensely porphyrine (a natural dye) coloured urine that looks like blood to the uninitiated. Alternatively, something else is going on (like a potential kidney problem/failure, seeing the diluted urine) or it is a combination of the two.
However, it doesn't look like a bladder stone issue or a potential operation to me - not that I have necessarily better news, unfortunately.

We can only ever get our beloved pets so far with our best care; what we can never choose is when and in which form the end comes when the much faster metabolism of our pets is turning against them - it is usually either a vital organ failing and in due course causing the others to close down or the immune system giving way and infections, cancer or parasites breaking through with devastating force and speed - whatever is the weakest spot and whatever is around.

Whenever you lose several piggies in rather quick succession, even the most experienced owners start doubting themselves even though their is no reason to. As humans we are unfortunately wired to reflect everything back onto ourselves instead of putting it into the proper perspective. The guilt trip/intense soul searching is sadly an integral part of your grieving process and your own human wiring but it is in reality just an expression of how deeply you love and care - they are the two sides of the same coin. Somebody who doesn't care will never experience what you are experiencing; but they also miss out on all the joy that pets bring.

Please hold onto that: Guinea pigs don't have a concept for an average life span; they measure their lives in happy todays. As long as you give them your love and those happy todays daily thrpoughout their time with you, you are not failing them in any way. The rest is simply not in your control as long as you put your beloved boy's welfare before your own fears of loss with any end of life decisions. We have our pets only ever on a loan from above that can be cancelled at any time without warning.

PS: Are you giving feeding support? Antibiotics - especially baytril - often affect not just the bad bacteria but also the digestive bacteria in the gut, causing loss of appetite. You need to step in with support feeding. The links below contain all the practical advice and how-to tips, including how you can improvise in an emergency.
Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

The links below are guides I never enjoy linking into any posts but while they do not make easy reading the practical information can hopefully help you to navigate your grieving and any difficult decisions better - nobody can take away the pain in your heart when faced with the potential of a loss but the guide can hopefully talk you through all the aspects involved so can make any decisions with a clearer head. In real oldies like yours, when the end finally comes it often comes very quickly. There is nothing wrong with you or with your care; it is just plain old age and nature taking their course.
Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A practical and supportive information collection
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

My thoughts are with you and Pumba.

 

[Cryptillian]

Hi thank you so much for your response and the kind words, made me cry quite a bit haha. I think I really needed to hear a lot of that.

I’m feeding him critical care about every 3 hours (and then once 6 when I need to sleep) for as much as I need to keep his weight above 1200 grams. Some days he eats enough to get back up to where he should be over 1220, but he’s on and off. His appetite is improving off baytril and I’m just trying to keep him comfortable. His stools started getting soft again last night so I’ve stopped veg for now but he’s drinking on his own and poops look normal today so I think he’ll be ok without them. The smell has gone away today, not sure why so suddenly to be honest, he is still peeing. I did notice his pee is very very clear this week, I assumed maybe it was from being off pellets and veg for a while, but I don’t really know. I forget if I mentioned but once he started squeaking I took him off his oxbow pellets as well in case it would make any urinary issue worse. I was able to get the vet appointment set for Friday afternoon this morning.

Losing my 8 year old just hit me like a brick wall because I had him since he was a baby, he was my first pig along with his brother that passed a few years ago. I got Pete when he was 3 and Pumba when he was 4, I knew getting them as adults would cause a lot of heartbreak later on but I just loved them so much. Pumba is also a suspected Cuy (the giant farmed guinea pigs) and American shorthair mix. The shelter told me all about how pet stores started breeding them to make them seem cooler I guess, and I have heard these guys tend to be more aggressive or have shorter life spans but he couldn’t be more the opposite.

I guess I never thought they’d all leave me at the same time. I’ve had pigs for so long and learned so much from them, I don’t really know what I’ll do if I’m left alone. I know there are always more pigs looking for homes, but I feel like nothing can replace these guys and what I went through with them.

I really want to believe Pumba will be ok but after all the death I think I’ve kind of accepted he is probably not going to be. I’ll still be crossing my fingers until we find out, but if it’s his time to let go I will be ready to say goodbye.

Hi and welcome

BIG HUGS

I am very sorry.

It always comes as a massive shock to us when we suddenly come face to face with the realisation that the life of one of our piggies may be coming to the end. The emotional upset is because this is in fact the moment when your grieving process kicks in and it is usually the second worst time apart from the actual loss. Perhaps that helps you to understand why you feel that you are currently feeling so overwhelmed with it coming after two more losses which will inevitably come up again in this kind of situation and add to the jitters.

7 years is right at the upper end of the average life span of 4-7 years (5-6 years is the peak). I cherish any piggy I can get to the upper half or even beyond that with my own adoptees; it is sadly not always possible when medical problem, genetic dispositions or unlucky circumstances get in the way. Be proud that you have got three of yours that far!

This looks like very diluted oxydising urine to me. The smell could mean that the infection is coming back with a vengeance. Any infections in the urinary tract are characterised at the onset by intensely porphyrine (a natural dye) coloured urine that looks like blood to the uninitiated. Alternatively, something else is going on (like a potential kidney problem/failure, seeing the diluted urine) or it is a combination of the two.
However, it doesn't look like a bladder stone issue or a potential operation to me - not that I have necessarily better news, unfortunately.

We can only ever get our beloved pets so far with our best care; what we can never choose is when and in which form the end comes when the much faster metabolism of our pets is turning against them - it is usually either a vital organ failing and in due course causing the others to close down or the immune system giving way and infections, cancer or parasites breaking through with devastating force and speed - whatever is the weakest spot and whatever is around.

Whenever you lose several piggies in rather quick succession, even the most experienced owners start doubting themselves even though their is no reason to. As humans we are unfortunately wired to reflect everything back onto ourselves instead of putting it into the proper perspective. The guilt trip/intense soul searching is sadly an integral part of your grieving process and your own human wiring but it is in reality just an expression of how deeply you love and care - they are the two sides of the same coin. Somebody who doesn't care will never experience what you are experiencing; but they also miss out on all the joy that pets bring.

Please hold onto that: Guinea pigs don't have a concept for an average life span; they measure their lives in happy todays. As long as you give them your love and those happy todays daily thrpoughout their time with you, you are not failing them in any way. The rest is simply not in your control as long as you put your beloved boy's welfare before your own fears of loss with any end of life decisions. We have our pets only ever on a loan from above that can be cancelled at any time without warning.

PS: Are you giving feeding support? Antibiotics - especially baytril - often affect not just the bad bacteria but also the digestive bacteria in the gut, causing loss of appetite. You need to step in with support feeding. The links below contain all the practical advice and how-to tips, including how you can improvise in an emergency.
Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

The links below are guides I never enjoy linking into any posts but while they do not make easy reading the practical information can hopefully help you to navigate your grieving and any difficult decisions better - nobody can take away the pain in your heart when faced with the potential of a loss but the guide can hopefully talk you through all the aspects involved so can make any decisions with a clearer head. In real oldies like yours, when the end finally comes it often comes very quickly. There is nothing wrong with you or with your care; it is just plain old age and nature taking their course.
Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A practical and supportive information collection
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

My thoughts are with you and Pumba.

 

[Merab]

Just want to offer support

 

[Wiebke]

Hi thank you so much for your response and the kind words, made me cry quite a bit haha. I think I really needed to hear a lot of that.

I’m feeding him critical care about every 3 hours (and then once 6 when I need to sleep) for as much as I need to keep his weight above 1200 grams. Some days he eats enough to get back up to where he should be over 1220, but he’s on and off. His appetite is improving off baytril and I’m just trying to keep him comfortable. His stools started getting soft again last night so I’ve stopped veg for now but he’s drinking on his own and poops look normal today so I think he’ll be ok without them. The smell has gone away today, not sure why so suddenly to be honest, he is still peeing. I did notice his pee is very very clear this week, I assumed maybe it was from being off pellets and veg for a while, but I don’t really know. I forget if I mentioned but once he started squeaking I took him off his oxbow pellets as well in case it would make any urinary issue worse. I was able to get the vet appointment set for Friday afternoon this morning.

Losing my 8 year old just hit me like a brick wall because I had him since he was a baby, he was my first pig along with his brother that passed a few years ago. I got Pete when he was 3 and Pumba when he was 4, I knew getting them as adults would cause a lot of heartbreak later on but I just loved them so much. Pumba is also a suspected Cuy (the giant farmed guinea pigs) and American shorthair mix. The shelter told me all about how pet stores started breeding them to make them seem cooler I guess, and I have heard these guys tend to be more aggressive or have shorter life spans but he couldn’t be more the opposite.

I guess I never thought they’d all leave me at the same time. I’ve had pigs for so long and learned so much from them, I don’t really know what I’ll do if I’m left alone. I know there are always more pigs looking for homes, but I feel like nothing can replace these guys and what I went through with them.

I really want to believe Pumba will be ok but after all the death I think I’ve kind of accepted he is probably not going to be. I’ll still be crossing my fingers until we find out, but if it’s his time to let go I will be ready to say goodbye.

Hi

Thank you for the further information and also that Pumba has cuy heritage - which means his weight is relatively low instead of being amazingly good for a frail 7 years old.

You are doing all the right things but because the soft poos are antibiotic related and not caused by dysbiosis (overgrowth of the wrong kind of bacteria) you can just continue with the normal diet.

The very diluted urine is unfortunately highly likely a sign of kidney failure. Painkillers can give him back some more appetite and quality of life for a little while but otherwise the balance between cost and effectivity of further medication is not good, as I know myself only too well. Kidney failure is not at all uncommon in the elderly.

Please read the chapter about looking after terminally ill piggies; it will really help you make the remaining time special and to make it count - and that will make a huge difference for your own grieving process as well as for Pumba.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

It is always tough when you lose several piggies/pets in close succession and the heartache is greater because each new loss will bring up the ones that you haven't quite fully digested yet but you will also (eventually) find that the joy your piggies give you for years outweighs the pain of their loss when the chips are down.
They will always stay with you since they are part of your life. New piggies/pets will take you on a new journey that does not take away from any of the others since each bond is unique and has their own place where it ties into your heart. You will also find that the next love will be different from your first love; not any less valid and deep but not exactly the same as you are also no longer exactly the same person. Loving your pets is like a river; you can never go back and as you go along, your own flow changes as much as the banks of those whose life you touch for a while. But the need to love doesn't dry up and the water in your river will always contain droplets of those who have shared your flow. Just give yourself the time to grieve and then move on when it feels right. There is always a piggy/piggies that will speak to you and that is meant for you.
You are quite obviously a wonderful owner; your piggies are a true testament of that. The first deaths - especially when you have never experienced loss before - are particularly hard to cope with.
You may find this post by one of our forum members very insightful and helpful: On grief, and hope (have a hankie at the ready - it is very uplifting but it is bound to touch some chords)

All the best for Friday.

 

[Cryptillian]

Hi everyone, I have bad news. Pumba has a very large stone in his bladder, they are worried he will not lost long with it there. They have told me we can do surgery Tuesday and have me an estimate that might be doable, they felt hopeful because he was doing ok today besides all this and they have a lot of experience. I just don’t know what to do, I don’t know what the right decision is. If I don’t do it I will have him put to sleep next week because I don’t want him to be in any more pain. He is on metacam for now while we decide. Any advice would be appreciated. This is my first time ever dealing with this.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi everyone, I have bad news. Pumba has a very large stone in his bladder, they are worried he will not lost long with it there. They have told me we can do surgery Tuesday and have me an estimate that might be doable, they felt hopeful because he was doing ok today besides all this and they have a lot of experience. I just don’t know what to do, I don’t know what the right decision is. If I don’t do it I will have him put to sleep next week because I don’t want him to be in any more pain. He is on metacam for now while we decide. Any advice would be appreciated. This is my first time ever dealing with this.

BIG HUGS

I am ever so sorry that the news is not good. Large stones do unfortunately not go away on their own and there is no medical solution.

It is always hard with these 'between a rock and a hard surface' decisions. There is no easy and happy way out, whichever way you decide to choose.

In your case, it basically boils down to two questions:
- The first one is: I know that you love Pumba deeply and that his welfare is in any case coming first, so this question is about what is fairer for him at the bottom of your heart: Letting Pumba go peacefully but permanently or would you rather buy him a reasonable chance at a recovery that may or may not come off? Euthanasia is the most heart-breaking but also the most loving gift we can make a pet in real pain; buying a chance at a happy outcome means you are keeping your hope for more painfree quality time for Pumba alive but it comes with no guarantee that he will be one of the lucky ones and a bad recovery can be worse than a clear-cut end.
Go with your gut because that way you can live with it better for the long term. We have great hindsight but there is no peeking into the future; we have to make these decisions blindly and take whatever the consequences are. If you make the decision that feels right in your heart at the time consciously and postively then you will have somewhere firm to stand on in the middle of all the inevitable doubts and soul-searching. Whatever happens afterwards, you have made your decision out of love and wanting the best for Pumba.

There is no easy answer and we can't give you one, either, because only you as the owner can make it. But I hope that this can help you find the answer that is ultimately right for Pumba and for you. I have gone either way with piggies of mine, always on the merit of the individual case and after weighing up the various pros and cons and listening to my heart. All I can say from experience: neither way is the easier. One is sheer heartache and the other has the potential to get very messy and painful indeed.

- The other question is a very practical and hard-headed one but that you will also have to take into consideration: How much can you afford to pay - seeing that you are in the USA where vet cost are even higher - and would you have any financial reserves in case the recovery is not going well? Costs can unfortunately escalate very quickly and it is emotionally extremely difficult to draw a line because we live in hope for those we love. We have unfortunately seen this not all that rarely on here.

Please take the time to sleep over it, meditate, pray or go for a walk; whatever works for you. Don't rush into it. Whichever way you go has to feel right for Pumba and his own welfare interests, first and foremost.

My thoughts are with you.

 

[Cryptillian]

It hit so hard because my vet was really thinking at first it couldn’t be stones, he wasn’t crying too much, he didn’t react when touched anywhere, he didn’t have any lumps or bumps, but I insisted we should do an X-ray to make sure and there it was. I just had this bad feeling and that’s why I posted here, I just knew in the back of my head.

The surgery was quoted at around 1k USD, which is actually on the cheap side and I was shocked. The surgery itself is only about 350$, the rest is anesthesia, follow up X-ray to confirm everything is out, recovery medication, etc. So this is basically the grand total. My grandma heard about Pumba (I lived with her for a while and she loved him so much) and she told me to just do the surgery offered to pay for it, though I will try to pay her back when I can if we go through with it, she is driving down tomorrow to come visit. I am still not 100% on what I want to do even knowing this though, I mean it’s only been 2 hours since I found out so I will definitely sleep on it but also see how he does on pain meds this weekend. I’ll think about it more tomorrow and ask around, just going to focus on cuddling him and working on his feeding.

I’ve been reading both the good and bad stories here, I know he’s definitely an old boy by now, but I think in my head “What if he’s actually younger? What if he was and I never gave him the chance for more years?” Because truthfully we don’t know his true age, but I got him from The Guinea Pig Sanctuary here in the US and they are very knowledgeable so I assume they made a good guess of 4 when I got him 3 years ago. He would have just turned 7 this month if they are correct (I consider this his birth month since there isn’t a real day and it’s the month I got adopted haha) and so maybe if he was like my Mocha at 8 years I wouldn’t do it, but because he still have some spunk and fight in him, he still gets excited and wheeks for veggies or hearing a back crinkle, it feels like he’s not ready to leave me yet. Apart of me feels very selfish for not wanting to let him go just yet, bit also selfish if I did let him go and not give it a shot. Obviously neither is selfish it’s just so hard, losing all my boys this year is so horrible. I knew they were all old but it doesn’t feel fair. I really thought we were done with the loss after the second one, and once again I still don’t know what I may or may not have done wrong. I’ll be doing lots of reading to make sure I cut out all high calcium veg even just as a treat just to give him the best chance if he makes it, but my vet thinks this may be caused by things out of my hands. Our house has a built in water filter/softener (we have a well) and I’ve always been careful about the calcium, perhaps that’s why I’ve had 4 other seniors (I think I accidentally said I lost 5 before but I lost 4 and Pumba is my 5th boy) who never had a stone. We even dealt with UTI after one of my boys got bloat and no stones, ofc now we know these issues might’ve been part of his cancer but we can never tell how long it’d been like that.

I really appreciate all the advice and kind words, I don’t know many guinea pig savvy people so it’s been very helpful and comforting talking to people here about this, especially with those who care about them very deeply. I will update on what we decide to do and if surgery on his recovery. My vets would not put him through this is they didn’t think the odds were on his side and have always been honest when it was time to say goodbye, but I know sometimes surgery outcome is out of anyone’s hands so we will see.

 

[Wiebke]

It hit so hard because my vet was really thinking at first it couldn’t be stones, he wasn’t crying too much, he didn’t react when touched anywhere, he didn’t have any lumps or bumps, but I insisted we should do an X-ray to make sure and there it was. I just had this bad feeling and that’s why I posted here, I just knew in the back of my head.

The surgery was quoted at around 1k USD, which is actually on the cheap side and I was shocked. The surgery itself is only about 350$, the rest is anesthesia, follow up X-ray to confirm everything is out, recovery medication, etc. So this is basically the grand total. My grandma heard about Pumba (I lived with her for a while and she loved him so much) and she told me to just do the surgery offered to pay for it, though I will try to pay her back when I can if we go through with it, she is driving down tomorrow to come visit. I am still not 100% on what I want to do even knowing this though, I mean it’s only been 2 hours since I found out so I will definitely sleep on it but also see how he does on pain meds this weekend. I’ll think about it more tomorrow and ask around, just going to focus on cuddling him and working on his feeding.

I’ve been reading both the good and bad stories here, I know he’s definitely an old boy by now, but I think in my head “What if he’s actually younger? What if he was and I never gave him the chance for more years?” Because truthfully we don’t know his true age, but I got him from The Guinea Pig Sanctuary here in the US and they are very knowledgeable so I assume they made a good guess of 4 when I got him 3 years ago. He would have just turned 7 this month if they are correct (I consider this his birth month since there isn’t a real day and it’s the month I got adopted haha) and so maybe if he was like my Mocha at 8 years I wouldn’t do it, but because he still have some spunk and fight in him, he still gets excited and wheeks for veggies or hearing a back crinkle, it feels like he’s not ready to leave me yet. Apart of me feels very selfish for not wanting to let him go just yet, bit also selfish if I did let him go and not give it a shot. Obviously neither is selfish it’s just so hard, losing all my boys this year is so horrible. I knew they were all old but it doesn’t feel fair. I really thought we were done with the loss after the second one, and once again I still don’t know what I may or may not have done wrong. I’ll be doing lots of reading to make sure I cut out all high calcium veg even just as a treat just to give him the best chance if he makes it, but my vet thinks this may be caused by things out of my hands. Our house has a built in water filter/softener (we have a well) and I’ve always been careful about the calcium, perhaps that’s why I’ve had 4 other seniors (I think I accidentally said I lost 5 before but I lost 4 and Pumba is my 5th boy) who never had a stone. We even dealt with UTI after one of my boys got bloat and no stones, ofc now we know these issues might’ve been part of his cancer but we can never tell how long it’d been like that.

I really appreciate all the advice and kind words, I don’t know many guinea pig savvy people so it’s been very helpful and comforting talking to people here about this, especially with those who care about them very deeply. I will update on what we decide to do and if surgery on his recovery. My vets would not put him through this is they didn’t think the odds were on his side and have always been honest when it was time to say goodbye, but I know sometimes surgery outcome is out of anyone’s hands so we will see.

GA drugs always make the largest part of an operation bill; the actual fee can vary depending on the length of time the actual operation takes.

I have had a piggy once with a huge 'silent' stone that was very smooth until she went suddenly downhill very quickly and needed an emergency operation at just over 500g (she was a smallish piggy) through which she thankfully came well. The good thing about a bladder stone op with just one stone and no crystals embedded in the wall is that the sheer pain relief from its absence can massively contribute to the recovery if other complications are absent. Ceri put back a full 200g of body weight in the two weeks after her op. However, Pumba's recovery will be slower and a bit rougher in view of him being three years older than my Ceri was.

My Hafren had a successful removal of a burst ca. 2 inch cysts at just one month short of 7 years. It was however a less invasive operation.

Go with what you feel is right for Pumba and for you. There is no right or wrong in this situation. But it helps a lot to think the various factors through and to make a positive choice you can live with for the long term because you know that you have made it from your heart.

 

[piggieminder]

I'm thinking of you and Pumba. I am so sorry you are going through this, it's such a difficult decision to make.

 

[Cryptillian]

Hi everyone, I wanted to give Pumba a day on pain medication before I made a decision, he gained 20 grams from eating more himself and hasn’t audibly cried from what I’ve heard since yesterday, he’s mostly not hunched up anymore and lays very comfortably, before he seemed uncomfortable trying to sleep.

I gave it a lot of thought and I decided I just feel like he deserves another shot, if by some chance he passed away during surgery at least we had tried as he would have to have been put to sleep regardless. He cannot seem to always control his bladder and I’ve been keeping him clean and comfortable, I’m just surprised by how well he’s done today. Still not himself of course, but just glad to see he’s not suffering as much right now.

A part of me felt really worried no matter what choice I made would be selfish, I’m still very nervous and I know there is still the possibility the stones will return or he will not survive or do well during recovery and at that point I will have to say goodbye if he’s at risk of suffering in any way.

I will make sure to update how Tuesday goes, his vets are very experienced and have done this procedure many times before and feel he has a very good chance because he is otherwise a very healthy boy. They will call me on Monday to talk about him, how he’s doing, weight, and what steps to take before and after surgery.

I may not get a long time with him even if everything were to go as perfect as it could because of his age, but I just don’t think he’s ready to go just yet. I’ll make sure to give him lots of cuddles and take lots of videos and photos just in case anything goes wrong and focus on making plans for his after care + working in case we need any more follow up appointments $$$ thankfully I work from home doing freelance art and my classes are online so I can still be with him 24/7.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi everyone, I wanted to give Pumba a day on pain medication before I made a decision, he gained 20 grams from eating more himself and hasn’t audibly cried from what I’ve heard since yesterday, he’s mostly not hunched up anymore and lays very comfortably, before he seemed uncomfortable trying to sleep.

I gave it a lot of thought and I decided I just feel like he deserves another shot, if by some chance he passed away during surgery at least we had tried as he would have to have been put to sleep regardless. He cannot seem to always control his bladder and I’ve been keeping him clean and comfortable, I’m just surprised by how well he’s done today. Still not himself of course, but just glad to see he’s not suffering as much right now.

A part of me felt really worried no matter what choice I made would be selfish, I’m still very nervous and I know there is still the possibility the stones will return or he will not survive or do well during recovery and at that point I will have to say goodbye if he’s at risk of suffering in any way.

I will make sure to update how Tuesday goes, his vets are very experienced and have done this procedure many times before and feel he has a very good chance because he is otherwise a very healthy boy. They will call me on Monday to talk about him, how he’s doing, weight, and what steps to take before and after surgery.

I may not get a long time with him even if everything were to go as perfect as it could because of his age, but I just don’t think he’s ready to go just yet. I’ll make sure to give him lots of cuddles and take lots of videos and photos just in case anything goes wrong and focus on making plans for his after care + working in case we need any more follow up appointments $$$ thankfully I work from home doing freelance art and my classes are online so I can still be with him 24/7.

Fingers very firmly crossed for Pumba and you.

 

[Cryptillian]

Hi everyone I am excited to say Pumba is now waking up from surgery stone free with no complications! Everything went great! The singular stone was apparently HUGE and all the staff were shocked by it and by the fact that you could not feel it in his abdomen and that he had no reaction to any examination, goes to show the importance of an X-ray even with vague symptoms!

Hoping this will give him much needed relief, he was doing so good this weekend despite everything, perked up like himself most of the time despite the pain and he is in good hands during observation for a few hours before I take him home to his fresh clean enclosure with lots of food! Wanted to thank everyone here for the advice and kind words, now we just have to hope that recovery goes smoothly and that there is no reoccurrence. I will try to stay hopeful, but regardless of the outcome having this extra time with him pain-free no matter how short means the world to me

 

[Wiebke]

Hi everyone I am excited to say Pumba is now waking up from surgery stone free with no complications! Everything went great! The singular stone was apparently HUGE and all the staff were shocked by it and by the fact that you could not feel it in his abdomen and that he had no reaction to any examination, goes to show the importance of an X-ray even with vague symptoms!

Hoping this will give him much needed relief, he was doing so good this weekend despite everything, perked up like himself most of the time despite the pain and he is in good hands during observation for a few hours before I take him home to his fresh clean enclosure with lots of food! Wanted to thank everyone here for the advice and kind words, now we just have to hope that recovery goes smoothly and that there is no reoccurrence. I will try to stay hopeful, but regardless of the outcome having this extra time with him pain-free no matter how short means the world to me

Wonderful news!

My Ceri had a 'silent' rabbit-sized 11 mm all round stone (three times the size of my next largest stone), which the operating vet asked whether I would donate it for his collection as he had never seen one as large before. Like Pumba, she had only very vague symptoms. Her making it through a very borderline operation at just 520g was my best 50th birthday present although it was not what I had planned for the day... Two weeks later she was back to 750g.

All the best for the recovery. The sheer relief from having the stone out was massive.

However, just in case you need it: Tips For Post-operative Care

 

[Kay4real]

Going to give some context here. I am from the US, my pigs are given oxbow vitimin C supplement daily, cup of various veg (romaine, cucumber, bell pepper, carrot, strawberry blueberry, apple, watermelon rind, etc but only the romaine and bell pepper is really a daily thing, fruits are more of a treat and I give a variety depending on what’s at home but I try to avoid high calcium veg), 1/8 cup oxbow guinea pig pellet per pig daily, and tons of hay always. Pumba is in a 24 sq ft enclosure with fleece/towels spot cleaned daily deep cleaned every week.

I am going to call tomorrow to make an appointment with my exotic specialist for X-rays, but we cannot have him seen til Friday as my bank account is drained and my dad can’t help me until his paycheck. I have lost 2 seniors, one 8 and one 6. The 8 year old (Mocha) had to be put to sleep after developing sudden pneumonia overnight after almost 2 weeks of antibiotics for a stubborn URI in the nose and not improving and then my two other boys also got a mild URI two weeks later in the nose with similar vague symptoms and it took 3 weeks to see improvement. My 6 year old (Pete) got bloat and needed to be put to sleep, it was colon cancer (we had a necropsy done because I blame myself, I feel I must be doing something wrong). My vet said besides that he was such a healthy boy and it just caught up with him, but it’s still hard not to feel I must’ve made a mistake somehow for this all to happen at the same time. My 7 year old Pumba has now stopped antibiotics after almost 4 weeks finally his breathing is completely normal, but now the urinary issues.

This has all basically destroyed me emotionally and physically, the vet bills were over 3k USD and I had to have family help out as I am 21 year old disabled student and recently got diagnosed with a brain aneurysm which might possibly need to be operated on. I just never expected something like this to happen all at once, I had savings but I didn’t have enough for this and now I have nothing but I am trying to work as much as possible. My pigs are my world and this has been so hard, I have not been able to get him a new friend as it’s only been a week since the other passed and I wanted to wait til he would be all better.

Pumba began crying a few days ago while sometimes passing stools but only rarely when peeing, vet told me to give it a few days as Pumba was switched to Baytril (has been in for 11 days) from Bactrim (was on for 2 weeks) after it didn’t help with the breathing. He developed diarrhea on the baytril, stopped eating, lethargy, etc. and we started probiotics (Bene bac plus) after 2 hours of every antibiotic dose. Diarrhea has cleared up, he also is eating more hay (Timothy) and more active but not enough. Through all of this I’ve been giving him critical care every 3 hours and he is taking the amount provided on the bag for his weight everyday (like 4 tablespoons as he was 1236 grams when healthy, he’s only able to stay at 1200-1220 for now). He needed to go back on veg a few days after we stopped because he was dehydrated (yellow/hard poops) and going back on cleared it up within a day. He is only having some romaine and cucumber right now. I have bathed his bottom with warm water a few times when he soiled himself with pee/diarrhea to keep him clean, he has no urine scalding, his anal sac is clean. I’ve made sure he’s clean everyday when I do little checkups. I have examined his tummy and put some pressure, I do not feel anything nor does he react but obviously that doesn’t mean much.

This morning his urine smelled quite strong/bad/abnormal and I decided to put him on a white paper towel to see if there was anything I could see. It seems there is this extremely small amount of pink in his urine I can only assume is blood. I have sent this image to my vet and she told me to stop the antibiotics because she felt that it wasn’t worth it if he was not eating due to them and come in to have him X-rayed as he should not get a UTI while on antibiotics.

I have never had stones in any of my pigs and I’ve had 5 other senior males, but now I am afraid this might be the time I have to deal with this too.

So he will go to the vet in two days and I am in contact with the vet every day about his progress, but I am really just here to ask if he does have stones and needs to have surgery, is it worth it? Should he have the surgery or not? He is 7 years old but otherwise has always been healthy, this was the first health issue I’ve ever had with him. I just know how hard surgery is on these guys, especially when they are old, and if they tell me the bad news I just want to be prepared to have to make these hard decisions soon. I basically have been paranoid that I’m going to have to put him to sleep because of all the loss and I just want to know what I should do, what is the right thing to do for him is if this happens?

I will update how his appointment goes. For now I’m just trying my best to keep him fed and happy, sorry if this is confusing I am just so upset.

Hi there, I'm I'm orlando Fl, i have had two guinea pigs with bladder stones! No big deal…SOME are more prone to them is all..do not give them parsley, there is a list that tells you what can cause bladder stones…as long as you get an exotic vet that has the equipment, its a pretty easy surgery , worse part is THEY MUST KEEP THEM OVER NIGHT( I HATE That! the worse having them away from me and their home)to observe they are ok, peeing normal etc..IT is expensive, my recent surgery was with a 4 year old male rescue.(1300) .he did fine, once home…a challenge, they are sore, so be prepared to do round the clock critical care syringe feeding til they feel better, for me that was 2 wks, every 4 hr feedings(I'm between jobs so it was fine) hydrate, due the meds like clockwork til they start eating and feeling better! My other guinea pig was 5 year old. If your pig is in good shape with no issues, i think he will do fine! Just be sure experienced exotic vet! My old guy is 8 with severe arthritis..meds am and pm and one in middle of day if its a bad day…so I'm not sure my vet would take him on due to could be too much on him PLUS that severe arthritis …the recovery would be the problem, not the surgery. Hope i helped!Gods Blessing.

 

[Merab]

I’m sorry that you’re dealing with this situation.
This is an old thread so you would be better starting your own thread in this section.
I would hate your post to be missed.
Maybe one of the mods can make the appropriate adjustment @Piggies&buns , @VickiA