We've Got A Psycho Piglet

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katew

katew

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi

I would really like some advice.

Last year our beautiful Juno (definitely the alpha sow) died. It left us with her sister Attie - the underpig and a bit of a softie - and Mike, a neutered rescue boar - also a gentle soul.

I decided that the way ahead was to introduce another younger female so that we could keep a group of three going forward. It proved trickier than I thought - nothing came up at the rescue centres - so I went to a breeder. She didn't want to let a single pig go but when I explained the set-up, she was Ok with it. Her guinea pigs were beautifully looked after and used to being handled.

Ideally, we would have gone for another two pigs, but we don't have room. We have a big run outside but have to bring the pigs in at night because of foxes. Indoors, we have a lot less space and I don't want to stress them out by overcrowding.

We chose an adorable long haired tri colour - now called Valentina - and got her about two months ago when she was just over 8 weeks.

I was expecting the two older ones to boss her about a bit and then it all to settle down and Attie to move into alpha female mode. What seems to have happened is that Valentina is bullying the other two.

She bites - and badly. She has drawn blood from every member of the (human) family and has also bitten the other two pigs.You can see when it is going to happen - she gets this manic look in her eyes and then starts looking around for something to bite. The other two seem to avoid her a lot - often they will go into a house where there is just room for the two of them and not her.

We have been observing quite closely and she mostly bites when she is being carried - it obviously stresses her out a lot. She is reasonably happy having laptime on her own, but bit the other two when they were having laptime next to her. We have now taken to giving her a chew toy (it's more like having a puppy). It's a piece of cloth and she grabs it in her mouth and tosses it around.

Things have been slowly getting better - there are times when all three snuggle in the same house and MIke has been seen chasing her around a bit. But it has been slow.

However, we just left them for a few days with a friend who runs an animal rescue charity and is very experienced. What she has told me has got me worried. She thinks that there is something wrong with Valentina and that she doesn't want to be with the other two, so she bites when she knows she is being carried back to them. She also saw V blocking Attie from getting to the food and thinks that the two older ones are a lot more subdued now (she has known them a while). Her advice is to separate them but keep V alongside.

I am torn. I am not going to give up on our new girl but I have two older and very sweet pigs that I have to think about too. If I separate her now, there will probably be no going back. But I don't want to force contact if it upsetting Attie and Mikey.

Has anyone had a situation like this ?
 
katew said:
Hi

I would really like some advice.

Last year our beautiful Juno (definitely the alpha sow) died. It left us with her sister Attie - the underpig and a bit of a softie - and Mike, a neutered rescue boar - also a gentle soul.

I decided that the way ahead was to introduce another younger female so that we could keep a group of three going forward. It proved trickier than I thought - nothing came up at the rescue centres - so I went to a breeder. She didn't want to let a single pig go but when I explained the set-up, she was Ok with it. Her guinea pigs were beautifully looked after and used to being handled.

Ideally, we would have gone for another two pigs, but we don't have room. We have a big run outside but have to bring the pigs in at night because of foxes. Indoors, we have a lot less space and I don't want to stress them out by overcrowding.

We chose an adorable long haired tri colour - now called Valentina - and got her about two months ago when she was just over 8 weeks.

I was expecting the two older ones to boss her about a bit and then it all to settle down and Attie to move into alpha female mode. What seems to have happened is that Valentina is bullying the other two.

She bites - and badly. She has drawn blood from every member of the (human) family and has also bitten the other two pigs.You can see when it is going to happen - she gets this manic look in her eyes and then starts looking around for something to bite. The other two seem to avoid her a lot - often they will go into a house where there is just room for the two of them and not her.

We have been observing quite closely and she mostly bites when she is being carried - it obviously stresses her out a lot. She is reasonably happy having laptime on her own, but bit the other two when they were having laptime next to her. We have now taken to giving her a chew toy (it's more like having a puppy). It's a piece of cloth and she grabs it in her mouth and tosses it around.

Things have been slowly getting better - there are times when all three snuggle in the same house and MIke has been seen chasing her around a bit. But it has been slow.

However, we just left them for a few days with a friend who runs an animal rescue charity and is very experienced. What she has told me has got me worried. She thinks that there is something wrong with Valentina and that she doesn't want to be with the other two, so she bites when she knows she is being carried back to them. She also saw V blocking Attie from getting to the food and thinks that the two older ones are a lot more subdued now (she has known them a while). Her advice is to separate them but keep V alongside.

I am torn. I am not going to give up on our new girl but I have two older and very sweet pigs that I have to think about too. If I separate her now, there will probably be no going back. But I don't want to force contact if it upsetting Attie and Mikey.

Has anyone had a situation like this ?
Click to expand...

It does sound like Valentina is really getting on with the others. Sows bite very rarely and mostly only when they feel attacked/under threat. I would echo the advice of the rescue lady; your trio sounds dysfunctional and it is stressful for all three.

As to handling Valentina, you may find the tips in these threads here helpful, but be aware that it is going to take long time and will require a lot of patience and persistence to settle her down.
How To Pick Up Your Guinea Pig
How To Understand Guinea Pig Instincts And Speak Piggy Body Language
Illustrated Bonding Behaviours And Dynamics
 
It doesn't sound like the group are getting on very well.

We have a guinea called Tilly who was very difficult when we first had her. She would also bite when held/carried and would not sit still for laptime, if you got in her way she was grab onto anything with her teeth and try to move it out of her way. We also had to wear gardening gloves to hold for her nail trims because she would get stressed and lash out.

We started using a tube to get her in/out of the cage as this was less stressful, she would run into it and we'd quickly whisk it away (mind your fingers at the head end though). Regular time out of the cage with food has increased her tolerance.

Tilly is so much better now, we can pick her up without the worry that she'll bite or nip us. She struggles a little but then settles and we can now have her out for laptime. She still doesn't sit still but she happily potters about walking over us. No gloves are needed for nail time either as she's become so used to it.

I hope this helps, although she may not get along with the group just know that she's not 'psycho' she is most likely just stressed. She may have been with a group of other pigs at the breeders and she's been taken away and put with two strange pigs who get along well, she's probably feeling very defensive.
 
Thank you so much. I think I will separate her at night to reduce the stress for everyone and carry on with a lot of gentle handling. I just hope that it works.
 
I think if you are going to separate then you should do so on a permanent basis. Separation overnight and reintroduction in the mornings is likely to be more stressful for everyone as they need to go through the while dominance process each time they re-introduce which isn't ideal with a piggy who's first move is to bite...

Piggy bonds are made and broken on personality and although we always say they are a social species and shouldn't live alone, it is true that there is an odd piggy who really isn't happy living with others, sounds a bit like your girl might be one of these. Or it may be that actually she just doesn't gel with your current two piggies and might find another friend suits her better. I know this isn't a simple situation as you need to think of your original pair and their needs as well as Valentina.

Good luck and I hope you find a solution that works for all of you.
 
I agree with @MerryPip re. either needing to fully separate or not at all. off and on is very confusing for guinea pigs, as every new meeting means starting the whole bonding ritual/dominance sort-out right from the start. It is not play time for them! :(

Please carefully read through the links I have given you. The guinea pig "whispering" thread gives you tips on how you can establish your dominance with Valentina, so she stops biting you, but also how you can tell her in guinea pig language that you love her. That is a very gentle way of establishing a relationship in a way that they instinctively understand.
Biting

If Valentina ever gets ready for a relationship, it would be so much better by dating her with a suitable laid back single guinea pig at a good rescue that has the time to try her with several guinea pigs and make sure that acceptance/the worst of the dominance has safely happened before she comes home with a companion. But I would give her several months or even a year before even thinking about that! Please don't try to get her another piggy companion on spec. She may never enjoy sharing her space with another guinea pig, and you have to accept that, too.

You will find that the other two perk up noticeably once Valentina is gone and that they emphatically do not want her back - ever.
 
Thank you - that is so useful. I have read the threads and will start 'whispering' tonight.
 
katew said:
Thank you - that is so useful. I have read the threads and will start 'whispering' tonight.
Click to expand...

It has really worked on several "bitey" piggies, but if they have major issues (and some have, especially when they have been separated very young and kept single or minimal/rough human interaction) then it can be a bit of an uphill battle.

I am currently working with a severely traumatised/fear-aggressive ex-young child's pet piggy. In terms of handling, we have gone from the total freak-out/blind panic to the very wiggly phase in half a year, which is quite an improvement, but still WAY to go! Considering that she has a thing about hands, she is now taking food off my hand and - not quite always yet - coming to me for a treat when I call her. She will never be a cuddler, but I hope that eventually I can get her to accept the necessary handling/grooming without being stressed out. ;)
 
Thank you - we started tonight with a lot of quiet talking, laptime with soft brushing and a bit of nose lifting. She coped pretty well and didn't bite. I am wondering if I made a big mistake and we shouldn't have taken her from a strong family situation and put her with two older bonded pigs and that is what has caused these problems.

We haven't separated them yet - we watched them closely tonight and the two older ones are showing some signs of dominant behaviour - MIkey growled at her and Attie nosed her off the food so we are going to wait a little bit and see.

Thank you for all your help.
 
I have been dealing with a biting piggy (my first one) and Wiebke's sticky on pig whispering has been amazing. It's been about 3 weeks since I've been nipped. But I still don't trust my little demon!
I agree that if you are going to separate it has to be permanent and not temporary.
Good luck.
 
Thank you - it is so helpful hearing about other people's experiences. Makes me feel we may get through this.
 
Wiebke said:
It has really worked on several "bitey" piggies, but if they have major issues (and some have, especially when they have been separated very young and kept single or minimal/rough human interaction) then it can be a bit of an uphill battle.

I am currently working with a severely traumatised/fear-aggressive ex-young child's pet piggy. In terms of handling, we have gone from the total freak-out/blind panic to the very wiggly phase in half a year, which is quite an improvement, but still WAY to go! Considering that she has a thing about hands, she is now taking food off my hand and - not quite always yet - coming to me for a treat when I call her. She will never be a cuddler, but I hope that eventually I can get her to accept the necessary handling/grooming without being stressed out. ;)
Click to expand...

Just tried some of the techniques you mention your threads tonight. She was chewing the towel when I picked her up but calmed down really quickly - early days I know, but she definitely responded. Thank you.
 
katew said:
Just tried some of the techniques you mention your threads tonight. She was chewing the towel when I picked her up but calmed down really quickly - early days I know, but she definitely responded. Thank you.
Click to expand...

That is great! Keep telling her to behave, but also make sure that she is loved at the same time.
 
I'm glad you are making progress. Is there any chance that Valentina arrived from the breeder pregnant? Just thinking that could cause her to feel vulnerable and lash out at the others.
 
Squidgypigs said:
I'm glad you are making progress. Is there any chance that Valentina arrived from the breeder pregnant? Just thinking that could cause her to feel vulnerable and lash out at the others.
Click to expand...
If I remember right she was only with her Mum and two sisters, so I hope not. It is a thought and I will watch carefully. Thank you.
 
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