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Vet low dosing the medication? Zithromax and meloxidyl

Livvysquish

Livvysquish

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hey, just curious as my pig is not improving and posts on here suggest the medication dose I've been given is very low.
She has jaw abcesses and cheek abcesses.
She's had baytril, tooth shaving surgery, pain medication, trimoxazole ect, the past 2 months for her teeth. And GI stasis (treated with emeprid and syringe feed) at one point.

Our last effort is zithromax and meloxidyl.
It's at 0.25ml once daily for zithromax and 0.2ml of meloxidyl daily too. This seems extremely low. She's weighs around 750g-800g.

I'm also syringe feeding 48ml of emergency feed every day with as much water as possible as she doesn't eat or drink at all.

This vet is one on the guinea pig vet finder on here. He's been amazing but even her last antibiotic doses seemed low. Trimoxazole at 0.2ml every 12 hours.

Are these low? And should I higher the doses? I'm a bit nervous to say to the vet "oh I seen this online and *insert questioning his judgement*". I just want second judgement before I question the vet further 😅
 
Hiya. I’m sorry your piggy is still unwell.

I’ve had a piggy with a tooth root abscess. He was on Zithromax for 6 weeks and the dose was 0.6ml TWICE a day. He was a big pig at 1.2kg. So obviously your vet will need to take into account your piggy being smaller. Has the abscess been drained and are you flushing it daily?

My piggy also didn’t eat at all while he was on Zithromax and needed nearly 100ml of critical care a day to keep his weight stable. Good luck I hope she is soon on the mend 🤞🏻
 
Does she seem to be in pain?

Is the meloxidyl the 0.5mg/ml or 1.5mg/ml?
A 1kg piggy can safely have up to 1.2ml of the cat version and 0.4ml of the dog version but the vet will need to assess clinical need and its of course based on weight also.

Piggies really need their pain meds twice a day as they metabolise in around 12 hours. Pain will make them not want to eat.

What are her daily weight checks telling you about her syringe feed intake?
Ideally you will be aiming for 60-90ml of syringe feed per day

Wiebke

Thread 'Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support'

1 Weight and Weight Loss
- Why regular weight monitoring matters
- How weight changes over a lifetime
- How to weigh on your kitchen scales (with video)
- The weight loss rules
- How critical is the weight loss for my piggy?
- Possible causes for weight loss
2 Body Mass Index (BMI) or 'Heft'
- Why is understanding your piggy's weight so important?
- 'Average' weight vs. individual weight - the big trip up
- How to check for the BMI...
  • Like
 
weepweeps said:
Hiya. I’m sorry your piggy is still unwell.

I’ve had a piggy with a tooth root abscess. He was on Zithromax for 6 weeks and the dose was 0.6ml TWICE a day. He was a big pig at 1.2kg. So obviously your vet will need to take into account your piggy being smaller. Has the abscess been drained and are you flushing it daily?

My piggy also didn’t eat at all while he was on Zithromax and needed nearly 100ml of critical care a day to keep his weight stable. Good luck I hope she is soon on the mend 🤞🏻
Click to expand...
The abcesses haven't been drained but they're still quite small. I will definitely mention upping the dose as going off your dose and others, mine seems so little 😭
 
Piggies&buns said:
Does she seem to be in pain?

Is the meloxidyl the 0.5mg/ml or 1.5mg/ml?
A 1kg piggy can safely have up to 1.2ml of the cat version and 0.4ml of the dog version but the vet will need to assess clinical need and its of course based on weight also.

Piggies really need their pain meds twice a day as they metabolise in around 12 hours. Pain will make them not want to eat.

What are her daily weight checks telling you about her syringe feed intake?
Ideally you will be aiming for 60-90ml of syringe feed per day

Wiebke

Thread 'Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support'

1 Weight and Weight Loss
- Why regular weight monitoring matters
- How weight changes over a lifetime
- How to weigh on your kitchen scales (with video)
- The weight loss rules
- How critical is the weight loss for my piggy?
- Possible causes for weight loss
2 Body Mass Index (BMI) or 'Heft'
- Why is understanding your piggy's weight so important?
- 'Average' weight vs. individual weight - the big trip up
- How to check for the BMI...
  • Like
Click to expand...
She doesn't seem to be in visible pain but her lethargy says otherwise. She's on the 0.5 cat one. With 0.2mls daily once? Doesn't seem right. I've been giving 0.3mls twice daily.

Definitely need to up her syringe feeds. The powdered food I'm using said 30ml daily for small mammals but I might do 40mls powdered critical and 40mls of mushed pellets. Her weight is dropping.
 
Livvysquish said:
She doesn't seem to be in visible pain but her lethargy says otherwise. She's on the 0.5 cat one. With 0.2mls daily once? Doesn't seem right. I've been giving 0.3mls twice daily.

Definitely need to up her syringe feeds. The powdered food I'm using said 30ml daily for small mammals but I might do 40mls powdered critical and 40mls of mushed pellets. Her weight is dropping.
Click to expand...

We can’t advise you to give more than what the prescription says.

Regarding the feeding, You don’t go by what the packaging says, you go by what her daily weight checks are telling you. You are looking for her weight to be stable each day and as she is dropping then she needs to be fed more
 
Piggies&buns said:
We can’t advise you to give more than what the prescription says.

Regarding the feeding, You don’t go by what the packaging says, you go by what her daily weight checks are telling you. You are looking for her weight to be stable each day and as she is dropping then she needs to be fed more
Click to expand...
I weren't asking for people to advise to give a higher dose? I was asking to get people's opinions to see if I should bring it up to the vet or not.

My vet told me to go by the measurements and feedings from the back of the packet. Which said 30mls dailys that was for 1kg animal, mine was 800g. I was feeding about 48mls with mushed pellets. The powdered feed I was using was emeraid IC given by the vet with specific measurements.

I am going to start giving 30mls of powdered feed (like the vet said) and 40mls of mushed pellets and Timothy hay.

I understand the importance of following the prescribed dosage and monitoring weight, but I felt that the tone of the response was a bit blunt and not as helpful or supportive. I was looking for more guidance and understanding regarding the situation, and I wanted to clarify if adjusting the dosage is something I should discuss with my vet.
 
Livvysquish said:
I weren't asking for people to advise to give a higher dose? I was asking to get people's opinions to see if I should bring it up to the vet or not.

My vet told me to go by the measurements and feedings from the back of the packet. Which said 30mls dailys that was for 1kg animal, mine was 800g. I was feeding about 48mls with mushed pellets. The powdered feed I was using was emeraid IC given by the vet with specific measurements.

I am going to start giving 30mls of powdered feed (like the vet said) and 40mls of mushed pellets and Timothy hay.

I understand the importance of following the prescribed dosage and monitoring weight, but I felt that the tone of the response was a bit blunt and not as helpful or supportive. I was looking for more guidance and understanding regarding the situation, and I wanted to clarify if adjusting the dosage is something I should discuss with my vet.
Click to expand...

I’m sorry but I feel you have not taken my post as it was intended and have misread the tone, it was not meant to be blunt at all.
I did say on my other reply that the scale can go higher but we have to make it clear on posts - as these posts may be viewed by others who may be tempted to go against vet advice in desperation - that we can’t advise anybody to give more than the vet states of prescribed medications.

The previous doses of cotrimoxazole at 0.2ml every 12 hours isn’t really a low one - it’s stronger so smaller doses than the old pediatric septrin - its just not really strong enough for an abscess.
The Zithromax may be able to be twice a day but it is a very strong antibiotic and in some piggies wipes the appetite out so it may not be appropriate hence the dosage you have been given.
The pain meds at cat version 0.2ml once a day, as I said, is on the lower side but this happens a lot since the licensing changed. But you’ve said youve been giving it at 0.3ml twice a day, that is what we cannot advise on.

As I said, you don’t go by what the packet says for feeds - she can have 90ml of the emeraid if that is what is needed to stop her from losing weight, she doesn’t need mushed pellets as well. Pellets are much lower in fibre than the emeraid (which is complete and nutritionally balanced for critically ill piggies) and while they can be fed, they are considered more of an emergency measure due to their lower fibre content.

EarthAngel

Thread 'Emeraid IC feeding guide? Confused'

Hi, I'm sorry I do not know how to link this to my other posts and get it seen?
I really badly need advice again. We ordered Emeraid IC. But cannot figure the amounts to feed?
My piggy Bandit - 5 years old rescue - bladder stone 0.97mm . Unable to afford surgery 😔
He now weighs 866 grams as of today.
Emeraid says to feed 30ml per kilo. So Bandit would then need about 24 ml of Emeraid a day.
Meaning the 100 gram bag would last 4 days . Is that right 😳?

He appears to now be eating small amounts of veg. Nothing like he was before. But better than when he stopped altogether.

Thank you...
 
When I was syringe feeding Pepper I soon realised that I needed to up the feeds. He lost so much weight (400g I think). He was taking nearly 100ml of critical care a day. I couldn’t believe he was still losing. I really hope she perks up soon.

Definitely speak to the vet about upping her meds. Good luck. ❤️
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m sorry but I feel you have not taken my post as it was intended and have misread the tone, it was not meant to be blunt at all.
I did say on my other reply that the scale can go higher but we have to make it clear on posts - as these posts may be viewed by others who may be tempted to go against vet advice in desperation - that we can’t advise anybody to give more than the vet states of prescribed medications.

The previous doses of cotrimoxazole at 0.2ml every 12 hours isn’t really a low one - it’s stronger so smaller doses than the old pediatric septrin - its just not really strong enough for an abscess.
The Zithromax may be able to be twice a day but it is a very strong antibiotic and in some piggies wipes the appetite out so it may not be appropriate hence the dosage you have been given.
The pain meds at cat version 0.2ml once a day, as I said, is on the lower side but this happens a lot since the licensing changed. But you’ve said youve been giving it at 0.3ml twice a day, that is what we cannot advise on.

As I said, you don’t go by what the packet says for feeds - she can have 90ml of the emeraid if that is what is needed to stop her from losing weight, she doesn’t need mushed pellets as well. Pellets are much lower in fibre than the emeraid (which is complete and nutritionally balanced for critically ill piggies) and while they can be fed, they are considered more of an emergency measure due to their lower fibre content.

EarthAngel

Thread 'Emeraid IC feeding guide? Confused'

Hi, I'm sorry I do not know how to link this to my other posts and get it seen?
I really badly need advice again. We ordered Emeraid IC. But cannot figure the amounts to feed?
My piggy Bandit - 5 years old rescue - bladder stone 0.97mm . Unable to afford surgery 😔
He now weighs 866 grams as of today.
Emeraid says to feed 30ml per kilo. So Bandit would then need about 24 ml of Emeraid a day.
Meaning the 100 gram bag would last 4 days . Is that right 😳?

He appears to now be eating small amounts of veg. Nothing like he was before. But better than when he stopped altogether.

Thank you...
Click to expand...
I didn't take your tone wrong. It was how it was. I get that it's for others, especially If they look to this post for advice. But still, it's overly common in the guinea pig community for people to act like this. The community needs more compassion. You can be straight forward and spit facts, whilst being nice. 🩷

The vet prescribed 0.2ml once daily of meloxidyl in my most recent prescription. Same as my last one. I got vets approval on the last prescription that if she seemed still in pain, I can up the dose slightly and do it twice a day instead of one because of their fast metabolism. But when I'm seeing people on here, say they're on 0.8ml twice daily for smaller alignments, it's makes me wonder if I should question my vet and ask for a higher dose. Same with the other medication I've tried.

You can understand my confusion, especially when she hasn't improved with £800+ worth of treatment and surgery's, and only gotten worse. And around the clock care, from myself. Of course I'm going to seek advice as to whether to question my vet.

Since you're saying not to go by the packet, that makes me question the vet further.

But then it begs the question, should I trust a qualified vet or forums for advice/guidance. It's all very stressful 🤷‍♀️ and very obvious which to pick.

I was looking for similar people with similar situations and what they think.
 
I am compassionate in my replies, if you think it wasn’t then I apologize but I promise you, you have not read it the way I intended it

As I originally stated, up to 1.2ml of cat or 0.4ml of dog can be given to a 1kg pig, but with the licensing of the cat version it has meant we are seeing some dosing coming in lower.

40ml of syringe feed is the amount to get into a critically ill piggy for survival and to keep gut function but in excess of 60ml is what is actually needed to stop weight loss continuing.
 
@Livvysquish I feel it is necessary to post this reply here publicly on your thread as there seems to be a bit of miscommunication that has led to raised emotions in this thread.

In post 5 of this thread, you stated that you were giving a higher dosage of metacam /meloxidyl than had been prescribed by your vet. @Piggies&buns, who has been kindly supporting you in this matter had already advised in post number 3 in this thread the limits that we understand are acceptable and that vets can prescribe if they choose to do so. She made a statement of fact, which any member of the staff team would have made on this Forum – namely that we cannot advise any member to give a higher dosage of medication than the amount that has been prescribed by the vet. This is an accordance with the law and we have to ensure as a forum that we remain on the right side of the law in order to prevent ramifications for us personally and for the Forum as a whole. It is unfortunate that you did not clarify at the time of making your initial post that your Vet had given you permission to increase the dosage and to give it more frequently as that information would have helped @Piggies&buns in her attempt to support you and she would not have needed to make any statement at all about our inability to advise members to increase medication above the dosage prescribed by a vet.

I have taken the opportunity to read this thread as a whole and I do not consider the tone to be blunt, unhelpful or unsupportive. It is most unfortunate that you chose to take it in that way and to compare this forum with other groups who you consider to represent the “guinea pig community”. We have taken great care on this Forum to provide a supportive environment that is far different from other communities that can be found on social media where anyone can have their say with impunity. The care, compassion, and empathy that can be found on this Forum, together with individual support is what separates us from the social media community. @Piggies&buns is an exceptionally hard-working moderator on this Forum and is well known for her kindness and patience in dealing with a large number of complex ongoing threads. She did not deserve the response you posted.

All our staff team are volunteers who give their time and energy freely in the interest of providing care and support to guinea pigs and their owners. We do wish to support all members with their concerns about their piggies but we do have to remain within the constraints of the law and we have to emphasise this publicly.

I do hope that you will take my post in the spirit that it is intended and take the opportunity to reconsider your earlier response and your own tone of posting. We wish you well with discussing your concerns with your Vet. We hope that you will return and update this thread after your discussion with the Vet and with any further information about how your piggy is getting along.
 
VickiA said:
@Livvysquish I feel it is necessary to post this reply here publicly on your thread as there seems to be a bit of miscommunication that has led to raised emotions in this thread.

In post 5 of this thread, you stated that you were giving a higher dosage of metacam /meloxidyl than had been prescribed by your vet. @Piggies&buns, who has been kindly supporting you in this matter had already advised in post number 3 in this thread the limits that we understand are acceptable and that vets can prescribe if they choose to do so. She made a statement of fact, which any member of the staff team would have made on this Forum – namely that we cannot advise any member to give a higher dosage of medication than the amount that has been prescribed by the vet. This is an accordance with the law and we have to ensure as a forum that we remain on the right side of the law in order to prevent ramifications for us personally and for the Forum as a whole. It is unfortunate that you did not clarify at the time of making your initial post that your Vet had given you permission to increase the dosage and to give it more frequently as that information would have helped @Piggies&buns in her attempt to support you and she would not have needed to make any statement at all about our inability to advise members to increase medication above the dosage prescribed by a vet.

I have taken the opportunity to read this thread as a whole and I do not consider the tone to be blunt, unhelpful or unsupportive. It is most unfortunate that you chose to take it in that way and to compare this forum with other groups who you consider to represent the “guinea pig community”. We have taken great care on this Forum to provide a supportive environment that is far different from other communities that can be found on social media where anyone can have their say with impunity. The care, compassion, and empathy that can be found on this Forum, together with individual support is what separates us from the social media community. @Piggies&buns is an exceptionally hard-working moderator on this Forum and is well known for her kindness and patience in dealing with a large number of complex ongoing threads. She did not deserve the response you posted.

All our staff team are volunteers who give their time and energy freely in the interest of providing care and support to guinea pigs and their owners. We do wish to support all members with their concerns about their piggies but we do have to remain within the constraints of the law and we have to emphasise this publicly.

I do hope that you will take my post in the spirit that it is intended and take the opportunity to reconsider your earlier response and your own tone of posting. We wish you well with discussing your concerns with your Vet. We hope that you will return and update this thread after your discussion with the Vet and with any further information about how your piggy is getting along.
Click to expand...
Well said 💐
 
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