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Very sick pig...

Froggerella

Froggerella

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
117
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300
Location
Wirral, UK
Hi all, it's been a long time since I've had to post anything here.

Etch (nearly 6 y/old male) is seemingly very ill right now. This morning I found some spots of blood where he toilets (fairly sure its from him and not his hutchmate, although no blood on either of them). As I was checking him over, he started regurgitating food and seemingly lost the use of his back legs - so we rushed him off to the emergency vet.

Vet says he's hypothermic, underweight (I'm kicking myself for not weighing them all regularly like I used to), and they're not sure what it is. His teeth are fine, there's no obvious lumps and bumps she could feel. Her theories are either cancer or infection. He did sneeze and produce quite a bit of saliva while there, so a respiratory infection isn't out of the question.

The vet gave buprenorphine, emeprid, dimazon, baytril and furosemide, and we have emeprid and furosemide to continue administering at home, as well as instructions to syringe feed oxbow. Etch isn't really tolerating the oxbow and continues to regurgitate some of it with excess saliva.

I'm really kicking myself now. If I'd weighed him as regularly as I used to, I would have noticed the weight loss sooner.

The vet said we can consider euthanasia, but we've opted to try and treat whatever it is he's got for now. As it was an emergency vet and it's a Sunday, we've been told to get in touch with our regular vet tomorrow too.

If anyone has any experience of this regurgitating or excess saliva thing and can give any tips for how we can get more food down him, please do let me know.
 
I’m sorry your boy is unwell. I’ve no experience but offering support. Someone with more experience should hopefully be along to answer your questions. I would perhaps get him booked in with your usual vet before making any decisions. Hope he’s okay through the night.
 
Hey there, I'm sorry to hear about your boy. I hope for the best for you guys. 2 weeks ago my sow Buttercup was put on buprenorphine. It definitely kept her comfortable and she did peacefully pass at home after a few days.

I believe our vet suspected cancer as well, although it didn't turn out to be that. Her weight had dropped (I also wish Id been weighing her more), her temp was too low and she had been presenting with UTI symptoms, which she had issues with the past 18 months.

Anyway, Buttercup seemed to be salivating excessively. Her fur was moist and sticky around her mouth and dewlap. She had a lot of other things going on (bloat/GI stasis that nearly did her in, stones, etc). I never got around to asking about it.

I really do hope your little guy turns around 💕💕💕We spent hours sitting with Buttercup on a low temp heating pad and that seemed to comfort her.
 
Froggerella said:
Hi all, it's been a long time since I've had to post anything here.

Etch (nearly 6 y/old male) is seemingly very ill right now. This morning I found some spots of blood where he toilets (fairly sure its from him and not his hutchmate, although no blood on either of them). As I was checking him over, he started regurgitating food and seemingly lost the use of his back legs - so we rushed him off to the emergency vet.

Vet says he's hypothermic, underweight (I'm kicking myself for not weighing them all regularly like I used to), and they're not sure what it is. His teeth are fine, there's no obvious lumps and bumps she could feel. Her theories are either cancer or infection. He did sneeze and produce quite a bit of saliva while there, so a respiratory infection isn't out of the question.

The vet gave buprenorphine, emeprid, dimazon, baytril and furosemide, and we have emeprid and furosemide to continue administering at home, as well as instructions to syringe feed oxbow. Etch isn't really tolerating the oxbow and continues to regurgitate some of it with excess saliva.

I'm really kicking myself now. If I'd weighed him as regularly as I used to, I would have noticed the weight loss sooner.

The vet said we can consider euthanasia, but we've opted to try and treat whatever it is he's got for now. As it was an emergency vet and it's a Sunday, we've been told to get in touch with our regular vet tomorrow too.

If anyone has any experience of this regurgitating or excess saliva thing and can give any tips for how we can get more food down him, please do let me know.
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Hi!

HUGS

I am really sorry.

Unfortunately all the symptoms you are mentioning are strongly pointing towards his body having started to close down (hypothermia means that the blood circulation is no longer working properly) while regurgitating and salivating mean that he is either unable to swallow or has an obstruction somewhere so the constant saliva fluid and anything else can no longer pass into or through the gut. If the problem is situated deep inside his body, he would not have shown any symptoms until it was too late and his weight loss may have been initially so gradual as not being noticeable or within the range of what is acceptable for an older gent losing condition.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

I so wish I had better news; but from my own rather too many experiences, Etch has sadly crossed the line of no return by now. :(
Please warm a snuggle safe just a third or max. half the normal time so is just warm but not so hot that he wants to move away. Change regularly as soon as it goes cold. Gentle warmth is the best thing you can do for a piggy in his position.

PLEASE do not overreact because of having a serious case of your bad conscience running away with you right now and because you are in a panic and not ready to face what is happening. It is a perfectly normal reaction but it is not helpful for Etch right now.

Things can happen with devastating speed in the elderly, especially as they usually suppress symptoms until the last moment and not all problems are equally noticeable. If there was something major to notice, you would have picked up on it sooner; it does NOT mean that you are a bad owner for missing what is not obvious at all.
Please take a deep breath and stop beating up yourself for something that would have most likely not have made any real difference had you noticed sooner (been there and have got a rainbow of t-shirts in my cupboard from early onset, losing more piggies in make or break operations or still running behind developments all the way from rushing to the vets at the first sign of something being wrong to finding piggies when it is simply their day).

Concentrate on Etch and putting his welfare and interests first and foremost. When you love another being, you can always be strong for them even when you cannot do it for yourself. :)

My thoughts are with you and Etch.

PS: If you strongly feel that you need to know what is going to in order to get a certain amount of peace in your mind, then you can ask your vet for a post mortem examination.
 
Wiebke said:
Hi!

HUGS

I am really sorry.

Unfortunately the symptoms you are mentioning are strongly pointing towards his body closing down (hypothermia means that the blood circulation is no longer working properly) while regurgitating and salivating mean that he is either unable to swallow or has an obstruction somewhere (more likely the back of the mouth or throat in view of the regurgitation) so the constant saliva fluid and anything else can no longer pass into or through the gut or that the gut has stopped moving altogether (GI stasis).
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

I wish I had better news; but from my own rather too many experiences, Etch has sadly crossed the line of no return by now. :(
Please warm a snuggle safe just a third or max. half the normal time so is just warm but not so hot that he wants to move away. Change regularly as soon as it goes cold.

PLEASE do not overreact because of having a serious case of your bad conscience running away with you right now and because you are in a panic and not ready to face what is happening. It is a perfectly normal reaction but it is not helpful for Etch right now.

Things can happen with devastating speed in the elderly, especially as they usually suppress symptoms until the last moment and not all problems are equally noticeable. If there was something major to notice, you would have picked up on it sooner; it does NOT mean that you are a bad owner for missing what is not obvious at all.
Please take a deep breath and stop beating up yourself for something that would have most likely not have made any real difference had you noticed sooner (been there and have got a rainbow of t-shirts in my cupboard from early onset and still running behind developments all the way to finding piggies when it is simply their day).

Concentrate on Etch and putting his welfare and interests first and foremost. When you love another being, you can always be strong for them even when you cannot do it for yourself. :)

My thoughts are with you and Etch.
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Thank you. Your reply was so kind and thoughtful, it's just made me cry. Thank you for always being here for everyone.

Etch is indoors right now in a spare cage. He's eating sporadically. His cage mate ziggy is in his main hutch right now, as the indoor cage is simply too small for two fully grown boars... but part of me feels like etch might get more comfort from having ziggy around. What would you say would be the best course of action here?
 
I’m so sorry to read this. I feel awful and I teared up reading wiebke’s post. Offering support and virtual hugs at this time.

I believe the boys should be together? However, let an expert chime in with more information.

Thoughts and prayers to you, your boys and family at this hard and difficult time.
 
Froggerella said:
Thank you. Your reply was so kind and thoughtful, it's just made me cry. Thank you for always being here for everyone.

Etch is indoors right now in a spare cage. He's eating sporadically. His cage mate ziggy is in his main hutch right now, as the indoor cage is simply too small for two fully grown boars... but part of me feels like etch might get more comfort from having ziggy around. What would you say would be the best course of action here?
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Very ill piggies instinctively remove themselves from the group if at all possible (in a cage situation, this is usually staring at a corner or locking themselves in a cosy if they have the mobility). Mostly, companions will come up to take their leave but otherwise keep their distance. A few very closely bonded ones will stay nearby or snuggle up.

Ziggy will be very aware that Etch is mortally ill and will have likely already taken his leave if he was not nearby when you found Etch. You can try and see how he reacts if you wish to but do not feel upset if he refuses to interact with Etch and if he is not interested in the body, either. It is normal species behaviour and based on instinctively avoiding the risk of spreading any infectionand attracting predators to the denning area as much as possible.
Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig

Go with your gut feeling on this. Saying goodbye is important but many owners overlook that this could have already happened before they have come on the scene.
 
Froggerella said:
Thank you. Your reply was so kind and thoughtful, it's just made me cry. Thank you for always being here for everyone.

Etch is indoors right now in a spare cage. He's eating sporadically. His cage mate ziggy is in his main hutch right now, as the indoor cage is simply too small for two fully grown boars... but part of me feels like etch might get more comfort from having ziggy around. What would you say would be the best course of action here?
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So sorry your piggy is so poorly. I've been there with several of my piggies and it hurts so much being unable to pull them round...
I would put Ziggy in with Etch, piggies do usually notice their companions are ill and try to comfort them. ( I took a very poorly piggy to the vet with his very bossy cagemate once, and found them both squeezed into the fleecy tunnel when I got there)
Ziggy can always be taken out if he isnt comforting Etch.

PS just noticed Wiebke answered just before me - that's the best advice, her experience is inestimably greater than mine :nod:
 
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Wiebke said:
Very ill piggies remove themselves from the group if at all possible (in cage situation, this is usually staring at a corner or locking themselves in a cosy if they have the mobility). Mostly, companions will come up to take their leave but otherwise keep their distance. A few very closely bonded ones will stay nearby or snuggle up.

Ziggy will be very aware that Etch is mortally ill and will have likely already taken his leave if he was not nearby when you found Etch. You can try and see how he reacts if you wish to but do not feel upset if he refuses to interact with Etch and if he is not interested in the body, either. It is normal species behaviour and based on instinctively avoiding the risk of spreading any infectionand attracting predators to the denning area as much as possible.
Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig

Go with your gut feeling.
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Thank you. I think I'd rather give them the chance to be together a bit longer, as they've got a lovely bond. Is there likely to be any risk to Ziggy if I put them together again?

And thank you to everyone who's commented - I know I've not responded to each one, but I appreciate them all.
 
Froggerella said:
Thank you. I think I'd rather give them the chance to be together a bit longer, as they've got a lovely bond. Is there likely to be any risk to Ziggy if I put them together again?

And thank you to everyone who's commented - I know I've not responded to each one, but I appreciate them all.
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No; there are no health concerns for Ziggy.

Just go with the flow and see what happens. Be there for Ziggy in case he gets upset. Piggies can be so unpredictable. If necessary ready your carrier and place Ziggy in it so he can stay nearby where you can keep an eye on him as well. This is an area that you have to play entirely by ear.

In Etch's case it is not an infectious disease but likely an internal 'mass' of some sort bursting through or a localised swelling or infection causing the blockage and bleeding. My gut feeling would be more on the first (they are sadly not all that rare but are generally the kind of news no owner wants to hear) - and there is very little you could have done or do about it, considering his age and the risks involved with an exploratory operation. :(
 
Update: Etch survived the night, which I honestly didn't expect. My husband gave him the 2.30am meds (which reminds me of the many reasons I married him) and says Etch was regurgitating most of it, including out of his nose... however, this morning he actually grabbed onto the syringes, and didn't cough any back up. He only managed one small syringe of oxbow though; I'm going to keep trying little and often throughout the day as I've decided to work from home today.

While I'm happy he grabbed onto the syringes today, I suspect its because he just wanted fluids of any kind. I'm reluctant to syringe water if he can't swallow it and it just goes up and into his nose instead, but I'm considering it. This morning, he gathered enough strength to climb his way up to my shoulder (his happy place), but I know not to get overly optimistic here. He's back in his cage with a warm heatpad, and Ziggy looking out for him. We've got our regular vet at 5.30pm and I know we may have a tough decision to make, but I want to try and give him a chance to rally today.

Thanks again everyone for your kind words - this is why I love this community.
 
Froggerella said:
Update: Etch survived the night, which I honestly didn't expect. My husband gave him the 2.30am meds (which reminds me of the many reasons I married him) and says Etch was regurgitating most of it, including out of his nose... however, this morning he actually grabbed onto the syringes, and didn't cough any back up. He only managed one small syringe of oxbow though; I'm going to keep trying little and often throughout the day as I've decided to work from home today.

While I'm happy he grabbed onto the syringes today, I suspect its because he just wanted fluids of any kind. I'm reluctant to syringe water if he can't swallow it and it just goes up and into his nose instead, but I'm considering it. This morning, he gathered enough strength to climb his way up to my shoulder (his happy place), but I know not to get overly optimistic here. He's back in his cage with a warm heatpad, and Ziggy looking out for him. We've got our regular vet at 5.30pm and I know we may have a tough decision to make, but I want to try and give him a chance to rally today.

Thanks again everyone for your kind words - this is why I love this community.
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Thinking of Etch and you! It is such an emotionally taxing time for you.
 
Thinking of you today. You are trying your very best and trying to give Etch a chance. Good luck at the vets.
 
Etch died around 15 minutes ago.

I watched him being brought into this world - he was born in my bedroom nearly 6 years ago. It seems right that I was with him when he left too.

Wiebke, I'm glad you linked those posts about preparing for this. It was because of them that I knew what to expect - I think it would have been quite scary if I hadn't known. I've loved and lost a fair few guinea pigs at this point, but Etch was the first I'd actually been with as he passed.

We'd already decided that the 5.30pm vet appointment would only be going one way at this point. Etch just beat us to it by 2 hours.

He was incredibly loved, and the sweetest, most gentle guy. We loved him.
 
Froggerella said:
Etch died around 15 minutes ago.

I watched him being brought into this world - he was born in my bedroom nearly 6 years ago. It seems right that I was with him when he left too.

Wiebke, I'm glad you linked those posts about preparing for this. It was because of them that I knew what to expect - I think it would have been quite scary if I hadn't known. I've loved and lost a fair few guinea pigs at this point, but Etch was the first I'd actually been with as he passed.

We'd already decided that the 5.30pm vet appointment would only be going one way at this point. Etch just beat us to it by 2 hours.

He was incredibly loved, and the sweetest, most gentle guy. We loved him.
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I’m so sorry, I’m glad you were with him when he passed.
Such a hard time when they leave us. ❤️
 
I’m so sorry you have lost Etch. I’m pleased he made the decision to go on his terms in his own safe place. I’m pleased you were with him at the end. He would of taken comfort with that. You did all you could for him. He was a much loved piggy. Popcorn high at the bridge. Take care ❤️
 
So very sorry that you have lost Etch. Please take comfort in the fact that he has had a wonderful long life with you which has been full of love. ❤️
Popcorn free across the rainbow bridge little one. 🌈 ❤️
 
I am so sorry for your loss. It will have provided Etch great comfort knowing he was at home, with his slave, when he took that final journey. I was with my Higgins when he passed, and, though it may not seem like it now, it has since brought me great comfort knowing I was with him - I am sure you will feel this in time, too.

Please allow yourself time to grieve, and thank you for being Etch's human for all of his happy life xx
 
I’m so sorry you have lost your little piggie, sending hugs. Etch sound like he had a wonderful long and happy life, you will have known just how much you all cared for him x
Sleep tight Etch 🌈
 
So sorry for your loss.
You filled Etch’s life with so much love and care.
You made his end as peaceful and comfortable as possible.
Now be gentle with yourself as you grieve
 
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