UTI?

[Ethel & The Girls]

Hello everyone

So we've been through an interesting few weeks. All started over a month ago when I saw noticeable dried smeared blood on the girls' fleece, inspected them both and noticed Ethel had dried crusty blood around her 'lady parts' and some on her belly fur.

Straight to our vet who examined Ethel and then spoke to me via phone as I waited outside (Covid-19 precautions). The vet couldn't feel anything examining Ethel and she didn't let on that she was in any pain. Vet said she looked very healthy but suspected a UTI based on what I'd said to him. So he prescribed Baytril and Metacam for seven days. Dried blood on fleece disappeared almost straight away (lady parts looked clear as well).

Week or so later I spotted very small blood spotting on the fleece again. Checked Ethel out and no crusty blood but what looked like 'crystallization' on her lady parts (nowhere near as bad as the first time). Back to the vets and he prescribed Baytril and Metacam again but for ten days. Again this seemed to 'fix' things. Today is seven days after we finished the last course of Baytril and Metacam and my heart sank when I saw small blood spotting on the fleece and upon checking Ethel the 'crystallization' her as well.

Back to the vet and he's checked her over, cant feel anything, she wasn't displaying any pain again (this time I could watch through the window from outside) so he's asked for her to come back on Monday for an x-ray under anaesthetic. If that doesnt show anything he'll do an ultrasound and urine culture.

Ethel in herself seems absolutely fine - she's zooming around their home, popcorning, eating (hay, pellets and veg) and drinking. I haven't heard her cry out in pain, seen her hunched up or hidden away. There's been an increase in rumblestrutting between them which seemed a little odd? Ethel has been trying to mount Gertrude.

Is it possible Ethel could be really poorly but presenting as absolutely ok? Does it sound like she's suffering from a UTI, bladder stone or something hormonal?

I'm so worried about her.

 

[DMS260820]

Just going to bump this to the top for you. I have a rough idea what could be wrong but nothing a vet wouldn't for sure know soon enough . All the best

 

[David Piggie Lover]

Ok. I'm no expert and like most I wish you and Ethel the best.
Is the vet knowledgeble with guinea pigs etc. On this forum are pages of fantastic info about illness etc.
I hope you find info to help you and Ethel.

 

[VickiA]

I’m afraid it’s really just a case of seeing what the xrays/scans show, as there is clearly something going on and it could be from the urinary tract or reproductive tract. All the best.

 

[Wiebke]

Hello everyone

So we've been through an interesting few weeks. All started over a month ago when I saw noticeable dried smeared blood on the girls' fleece, inspected them both and noticed Ethel had dried crusty blood around her 'lady parts' and some on her belly fur.

Straight to our vet who examined Ethel and then spoke to me via phone as I waited outside (Covid-19 precautions). The vet couldn't feel anything examining Ethel and she didn't let on that she was in any pain. Vet said she looked very healthy but suspected a UTI based on what I'd said to him. So he prescribed Baytril and Metacam for seven days. Dried blood on fleece disappeared almost straight away (lady parts looked clear as well).

Week or so later I spotted very small blood spotting on the fleece again. Checked Ethel out and no crusty blood but what looked like 'crystallization' on her lady parts (nowhere near as bad as the first time). Back to the vets and he prescribed Baytril and Metacam again but for ten days. Again this seemed to 'fix' things. Today is seven days after we finished the last course of Baytril and Metacam and my heart sank when I saw small blood spotting on the fleece and upon checking Ethel the 'crystallization' her as well.

Back to the vet and he's checked her over, cant feel anything, she wasn't displaying any pain again (this time I could watch through the window from outside) so he's asked for her to come back on Monday for an x-ray under anaesthetic. If that doesnt show anything he'll do an ultrasound and urine culture.

Ethel in herself seems absolutely fine - she's zooming around their home, popcorning, eating (hay, pellets and veg) and drinking. I haven't heard her cry out in pain, seen her hunched up or hidden away. There's been an increase in rumblestrutting between them which seemed a little odd? Ethel has been trying to mount Gertrude.

Is it possible Ethel could be really poorly but presenting as absolutely ok? Does it sound like she's suffering from a UTI, bladder stone or something hormonal?

I'm so worried about her.

Hi!

Please have her checked for ovarian cysts and/or sterile interstitial cystitis (i.e. a non-bacterial recurring bladder infection that cannot be cured by an antibiotic and is generally diagnosed by default after all other potential issues with the urinary tract have been excluded). The x-ray will see whether there are stones/sludge or ovarian cysts. The two issues are unrelated. It depends on whether you have seen porphyrine coloured red pees or pure blood. if nothing can be found, then sterile IC may be the most likely candidate for the source of your recurring problems.
More on ovarian cysts and strong seasons here: Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)

PS: Sterile IC is a problem that has become a lot more common over the last decade but is not well known outside vets who see guinea pigs on a frequent basis. Treatment is roughly comparable to FSC (feline sterile cystitis; cats can suffer from a similar problem) with plenty of glucosamine (recommended: cystease capsules, which are classed as cat food supplement and are therefore prescription-free) and analgesics (ideally dog metacam at a much higher dosage than for cats since guinea pigs have a much faster and stronger metabolism and cope with it a lot better). The condition cannot be healed, only managed and tends to flare up every few weeks.

All the best!

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

Thank you everyone. Are guinea pigs generally ok under anaesthetic? I appreciate this is very dependant on the individual piggie but generally are they ok?

Wiebke - thank you and I will certainly mention both of these to the vet. He wanted to start with the x-ray to check for a bladder stone then move onto the ultrasound to check her womb etc. I have seen an orange looking urine in their hay tray which when I dripped onto their fleece today (they were out of their home whilst I did a fleece change) looked like it had a pink tinge. I wanted to see if it matched what I'd seen dry on their fleece and it certainly looked like it. I then put in clean fleece.

As I'm writing this Ethel is merrily chomping away on hay .

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you everyone. Are guinea pigs generally ok under anaesthetic? I appreciate this is very dependant on the individual piggie but generally are they ok?

Wiebke - thank you and I will certainly mention both of these to the vet. He wanted to start with the x-ray to check for a bladder stone then move onto the ultrasound to check her womb etc. I have seen an orange looking urine in their hay tray which when I dripped onto their fleece today (they were out of their home whilst I did a fleece change) looked like it had a pink tinge. I wanted to see if it matched what I'd seen dry on their fleece and it certainly looked like it. I then put in clean fleece.

As I'm writing this Ethel is merrily chomping away on hay .

Ethel will only need a whiff of gas to allow the vet to position her as needed in order to get views from different angles so any problems can be located in a three dimensional body; she won't need a full GA.

Generally GA has got better over the years but it very much depends on how practised your vet team is with operating on guinea pigs. At least it doesn't sound like she is in major pain!

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

Ethel will only need a whiff of gas to allow the vet to position her as needed in order to get views from different angles so any problems can be located in a three dimensional body; she won't need a full GA.

Generally GA has got better over the years but it very much depends on how practised your vet team is with operating on guinea pigs. At least it doesn't sound like she is in major pain!

Thank you Wiebke. She's currently eating hay alongside Gertrude and the two of them are chutting away. I really hope she's not in pain and at face value she doesn't appear to be.

Will see what Monday brings and I'll mention the ovarian cysts and Sterile IC. Vet said to take Gertrude along as well to try and reduce stress for them both. Not sure Gertrude will be too impressed but there we go!

 

[Freela]

I think the best thing to do is to see what the tests show... it sounds like there is something amiss either in the bladder or the reproductive tract and you'll have a much better idea what the way forward is following the testing. The good news is that she is feeling good and behaving normally. Hopefully you will have a clear way forward shortly, and hope it's an easy fix for her!

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

So the vet has diagnosed bladder sludge after x-ray and ultrasound. I have noticed Ethel doesnt seem to drink as much as Gertrude does. You can tell which one is drinking from the sound they make at the bottles! Ethel also grabs hold of / clamps onto the metal straw part (head upside down) rather than lick the ball like Gertrude does! Can anyone offer advice as to how to encourage Ethel to drink more water?

Diet wise we are feeding the girls the following on a daily basis:

Red pepper
Cucumber
Celery
Lettuce leaves (not iceberg). We tend to buy the pre mixed salad bags that us humans would eat. This could also include rocket and spinach depending in the bag.

I hand feed them their veg to start to try and make sure Ethel gets a fair share. Gertrude would scoff the lot given half a chance.

Unlimited meadow hay
Burgess Excel Guinea pig pellets - 60g between the two (Gertrude was scoffing the majority so we cut down).
Filtered tap water since January when I bought a Brita water jug.
They also have coriander and spinach as a treat.

Any advice greatly received and relieved no operation.

 

[Piggies&buns]

While you cannot and should not completely cut calcium down, reducing their pellets down would go a long way. Even low calcium pellets have more calcium some some veg. As a comparison, i weighed out the recommended one tablespoon of pellets it came to just 6g. I tend to feed my boys about a tablespoon to a tablespoon and a half between the two them so it’ll be about 6-10g of pellets between them. I feed science selective grain free pellets.

One of my piggies grabs the spout as well rather than licking it. Perhaps try offering a bowl of water too, but it will need to be changed regularly as it won’t stay clean.

Definitely go easy on the spinach as it is high in calcium.

This link has a section on bladder issues.

Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

While you cannot and should not completely cut calcium down, reducing their pellets down would go a long way. Even low calcium pellets have more calcium some some veg. As a comparison, i weighed out the recommended one tablespoon of pellets it came to just 6g. I tend to feed my boys about a tablespoon to a tablespoon and a half between the two them so it’ll be about 6-10g of pellets between them. I feed science selective grain free pellets.

One of my piggies grabs the spout as well rather than licking it. Perhaps try offering a bowl of water too, but it will need to be changed regularly as it won’t stay clean.

Definitely go easy on the spinach as it is high in calcium.

This link has a section on bladder issues.

Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Thank you @Piggies&buns
I was thinking of cutting down on the pellets but was a bit concerned about the Vit C aspect. I will definitely read up on the diet pages on here . The spinach has been a new addition (last couple of weeks) as we were struggling a little with fresh veg in the shops. I think I might go back to avoiding it in future!

Glad it's not just Ethel who drinks in a peculiar manner . It certainly doesnt look comfortable with her head upside down!

 

[Piggies&buns]

Vit c is in peppers, coriander and their hay. If you can get them access to grass, then there is also Vit c so you really don’t need to worry about cutting down the pellets.
Feeding a wet diet (veggies, grass) can help keep the bladder flushed through

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you @Piggies&buns
I was thinking of cutting down on the pellets but was a bit concerned about the Vit C aspect. I will definitely read up on the diet pages on here . The spinach has been a new addition (last couple of weeks) as we were struggling a little with fresh veg in the shops. I think I might go back to avoiding it in future!

Glad it's not just Ethel who drinks in a peculiar manner . It certainly doesnt look comfortable with her head upside down!

Hi!

Good that you have been able to have her seen and diagnosed so promptly!

Fresh grass is high in vitamin (which is why guinea pigs have never had the need to make their own in the first place, and hay does contain it, too. So your piggies won't suffer from cutting the pellets which contain a lot less crucial fibre the diet instead of fillers and even the lowest calcium pellets still contain more calcium than the highest calcium veg, kale.

Please filter your water unless you are doing it already. Most calcium in the diet comes actually via the water and pellets, and not from the veg. Follow the tips in our diet recommendations for guinea pigs with urinary tract problems. You can feed lettuce to guinea pigs with stone/sludge problems but I would be more careful with mixes containing spinach or lettuced related to kale (rocket or butterhead). Rather feed fresh herbs instead.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Please introduce any fresh grass slowly as it can easily cause diarrhea or bloating and always make sure that it is dog pee-free but it is by far the healthiest fresh food you can feed.
Feeding Grass And Preparing Your Piggies For Lawn Time

Ideally your diet should contain some high nutrient (grass, herbs, occasionally small amounts of kale or its milder relative greens) and some high fluid low nutrition veg (cucumber, celery, romaine/cos or gem lettuce) to help keep the bladder flushed and minimise the build up of sludge. Too much spinach, kale and other veg high in oxalates can hinder the absorption of calcium and promote the formation of stones and sludge.
You may find that when you switch to a diet higher in watery veg that the poos can be softer for a while; your piggies may also drink a bit less.

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

Vit c is in peppers, coriander and their hay. If you can get them access to grass, then there is also Vit c so you really don’t need to worry about cutting down the pellets.
Feeding a wet diet (veggies, grass) can help keep the bladder flushed through

Thank you very much

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

Hi!

Good that you have been able to have her seen and diagnosed so promptly!

Fresh grass is high in vitamin (which is why guinea pigs have never had the need to make their own in the first place, and hay does contain it, too. So your piggies won't suffer from cutting the pellets which contain a lot less crucial fibre the diet instead of fillers and even the lowest calcium pellets still contain more calcium than the highest calcium veg, kale.

Please filter your water unless you are doing it already. Most calcium in the diet comes actually via the water and pellets, and not from the veg. Follow the tips in our diet recommendations for guinea pigs with urinary tract problems. You can feed lettuce to guinea pigs with stone/sludge problems but I would be more careful with mixes containing spinach or lettuced related to kale (rocket or butterhead). Rather feed fresh herbs instead.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Please introduce any fresh grass slowly as it can easily cause diarrhea or bloating and always make sure that it is dog pee-free but it is by far the healthiest fresh food you can feed.
Feeding Grass And Preparing Your Piggies For Lawn Time

Ideally your diet should contain some high nutrient (grass, herbs, occasionally small amounts of kale or its milder relative greens) and some high fluid low nutrition veg (cucumber, celery, romaine/cos or gem lettuce) to help keep the bladder flushed and minimise the build up of sludge. Too much spinach, kale and other veg high in oxalates can hinder the absorption of calcium and promote the formation of stones and sludge.
You may find that when you switch to a diet higher in watery veg that the poos can be softer for a while; your piggies may also drink a bit less.

Thank you very much too. We were feeding them spring greens daily instead of lettuce but were concerned about bloating (I read cabbage can cause bloating not that either of the girls were suffering from it) so phased this out to lettuce. I will try them on some romaine or little gem instead. They do eat cucumber and celery so will up the amounts of these. Ethel loves coriander so I'm pleased to see fresh herbs are still allowed.

It looks like one big change will be cutting down on the pellets. The vet has advised that Gertrude could do with losing some weight so this should help with her too.

They've been having filtered tap water (Brita water jug) since January this year so I will definitely keep going with this.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you very much too. We were feeding them spring greens daily instead of lettuce but were concerned about bloating (I read cabbage can cause bloating not that either of the girls were suffering from it) so phased this out to lettuce. I will try them on some romaine or little gem instead. They do eat cucumber and celery so will up the amounts of these. Ethel loves coriander so I'm pleased to see fresh herbs are still allowed.

It looks like one big change will be cutting down on the pellets. The vet has advised that Gertrude could do with losing some weight so this should help with her too.

They've been having filtered tap water (Brita water jug) since January this year so I will definitely keep going with this.

You can phase back in a strip of greens 2- 3 times a week if you wish to as magnesium is unfortunately tied to all the high calcium veg and is not added to pellets.

Generally diet related bloating issues happen when you introduce new foods in a large quantity instead of building up the amounts gradually to allow the gut biome time to learn to cope with it. But you can get severe bloating as well as from fresh, damp grass or even too much lettuce on an unprepared gut. Cabbage and crucifera (broccoli) can actually be fed safely as part of a mixed diet in small quantities - but I would not recommend feeding them more as an occasional treat in any hard water area.

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

You can phase back in a strip of greens 2- 3 times a week if you wish to as magnesium is unfortunately tied to all the high calcium veg and is not added to pellets.

Generally diet related bloating issues happen when you introduce new foods in a large quantity instead of building up the amounts gradually to allow the gut biome time to learn to cope with it. But you can get severe bloating as well as from fresh, damp grass or even too much lettuce on an unprepared gut. Cabbage and crucifera (broccoli) can actually be fed safely as part of a mixed diet in small quantities - but I would not recommend feeding them more as an occasional treat in any hard water area.

Thank you very much for your help. Much appreciated.

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

Hello everyone

I've posted on here before about Ethel and bladder sludge. I thought we'd made some progress but I spotted this tonight whilst cleaning the girls out.

Is this blood? If it is do you think it's from urine? It's in an area they like to pee in..

Ethel is currently on Metacam but no antibiotics (her urine sample showed no bacteria / the lab couldn't grow any bacteria).

Thank you

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

Forgot to say the urine I've seen has been a yellow colour (dark but yellow) whereas before it was a dark orange / rusty colour.

 

[Siikibam]

I’m not at all sure to be honest. The one on the right doesn’t look like blood but I don’t know about the left. I’ll tag @VickiA and @furryfriends (TEAS) Has she been squeaking while toileting?

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

No squeaking. She's eating, running around, drinking and acting normally. Definitely has an appetite as just eaten her veg and now sitting in the middle of a big pile of hay.

 

[VickiA]

I’ve merged your threads as they are relating to the same/similar issues.
I can’t tell from the photos. Does it feel gritty or sharp?Is she still on any medication for bladder sludge?

 

[Ethel & The Girls]

I’ve merged your threads as they are relating to the same/similar issues.
I can’t tell from the photos. Does it feel gritty or sharp?Is she still on any medication for bladder sludge?

Thank you and I'm sorry I didn't continue on my original thread.

Doesn't feel gritty or sharp at all and she's still on metacam.