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RyanK

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Hi All,

Hoping for some advice.

2 weeks ago our little pig Bertie developed symptoms of a UTI (small blood spots in his urine) so we took him to the vet, where he was prescribed 0.75 ml of Enrobactin and 0.5ml of Metacam for the pain. Around 4 days later he was visibly in more pain when he passed his pee and stools, so we took him back for an x-ray as I suspected bladder stones. The x-ray came back clear of stones but it did show that he had a build up of gas and had "guinea pig bloat" and so a different vet suggested we stop Enrobactin and try Sulfatrim (0.3 twice a day).

A couple of days into the Sulfatrim we noticed Bertie had developed diarrhea, so back to the vets again where the original vet suggested fibreplex to help settle the stomach.

Over the course of the next couple of days Bertie became very lethargic to the point he would sometimes sleep with his eyes closed, he had lost his appetite and had stopped passing stools but he did have less blood in his wee. We were almost certain that he was dying, so we stopped the Sulfatrim (he had been on it for 8 days) and took him straight to the vets expecting him to be put to sleep. However upon examination the vet commented on how bright he still was and that the bloat had gone. He did diagnose GI Stasis and sent us home with some critical care, and he also injected him with something to get the gut moving again (can't remember what he was injected with).

Within 24 hours of the critical care, Bertie was much more lively and had started to eat a little and his stools are now more solid (although he still isn't interested in nuggets and we are still feeding him critical care). We decided to try him back on the original antibiotic Enrobactin in a last ditch attempt to fix him (the vet confirmed this was fine to do).

So that brings us to where we are today, Bertie is currently on 0.75ml of Enrobactin, 0.5ml of Metacam, Fibreplex an hour following his antibiotics and critical care throughout the day. Bertie is doing much better within himself, however he is passing blood when he pees and also passing blood when he poops (the blood is very red and isn't diluted but does seem to come from his penis when he poops) and I'm not entirely convinced it's a UTI as the antibiotics don't seem to be doing anything.

We're not sure what to do, we don't want Bertie to be in pain, but equally we don't want to have him put to sleep if there's chance of recovery. The vets have told us there's nothing more they can do, but I guess what I'm asking is, can UTI's be stubborn against antibiotics and does the blood when he is passing stools indicate a more serious illness?

Sorry for the essay and thanks for the help in advance!

Ryan
 
Hi All,

Hoping for some advice.

2 weeks ago our little pig Bertie developed symptoms of a UTI (small blood spots in his urine) so we took him to the vet, where he was prescribed 0.75 ml of Enrobactin and 0.5ml of Metacam for the pain. Around 4 days later he was visibly in more pain when he passed his pee and stools, so we took him back for an x-ray as I suspected bladder stones. The x-ray came back clear of stones but it did show that he had a build up of gas and had "guinea pig bloat" and so a different vet suggested we stop Enrobactin and try Sulfatrim (0.3 twice a day).

A couple of days into the Sulfatrim we noticed Bertie had developed diarrhea, so back to the vets again where the original vet suggested fibreplex to help settle the stomach.

Over the course of the next couple of days Bertie became very lethargic to the point he would sometimes sleep with his eyes closed, he had lost his appetite and had stopped passing stools but he did have less blood in his wee. We were almost certain that he was dying, so we stopped the Sulfatrim (he had been on it for 8 days) and took him straight to the vets expecting him to be put to sleep. However upon examination the vet commented on how bright he still was and that the bloat had gone. He did diagnose GI Stasis and sent us home with some critical care, and he also injected him with something to get the gut moving again (can't remember what he was injected with).

Within 24 hours of the critical care, Bertie was much more lively and had started to eat a little and his stools are now more solid (although he still isn't interested in nuggets and we are still feeding him critical care). We decided to try him back on the original antibiotic Enrobactin in a last ditch attempt to fix him (the vet confirmed this was fine to do).

So that brings us to where we are today, Bertie is currently on 0.75ml of Enrobactin, 0.5ml of Metacam, Fibreplex an hour following his antibiotics and critical care throughout the day. Bertie is doing much better within himself, however he is passing blood when he pees and also passing blood when he poops (the blood is very red and isn't diluted but does seem to come from his penis when he poops) and I'm not entirely convinced it's a UTI as the antibiotics don't seem to be doing anything.

We're not sure what to do, we don't want Bertie to be in pain, but equally we don't want to have him put to sleep if there's chance of recovery. The vets have told us there's nothing more they can do, but I guess what I'm asking is, can UTI's be stubborn against antibiotics and does the blood when he is passing stools indicate a more serious illness?

Sorry for the essay and thanks for the help in advance!

Ryan

Hi and welcome!

Poor Bertie!

Bloating and GI stasis are not nice at all, especially on top of the urinary tract problem - but they may be related to it as intense pain in the urinary or reproductive tract can impact on the gut, which is wrapped around it.
Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

There is a condition called sterile interstitial cystitis (i.e. non-bacterial recurring/chronic bladder infection that does not react to antibiotics), which has unfortunately become a lot more common over the last decade. Many general or exotics vets that do not see lots of piggies are not aware of it.

Similar to FSC (feline sterile cystitis), sterile IC in cavies cannot be healed but only managed after all other potential urinary tract problems have been excluded. That has been the case with Bertie. Treatment is similar to treatment of FSC with plenty of glucosamine (we recommend a cat bladder supplement like cystease capsules; one capsule daily) to help support and protect the glucosamine coating of the walls of the urinary tract that keep the corrosive urine away from the flesh and with metacam, which is an analgesic (painkiller and anti-inflammatory). Some vets also use potassium citrate. Once stabilised (which can take some weeks or even months), you will experienced the occasional flare up (hence the interstitial). In severe cases cartrofen injections have proven successful in recent research but this is so recent that there is not yet a standard way of treatment established; it is currently trialled by some exotics vets in this country.
The good news is that IC will in many cases eventually go away on its own. It is not life-threatening or shortening and doesn't cause bladder stones. The bad news is that this is usually more a matter of years rather than months... :(
Here is some information on sterile IC: Links - Interstitial Cystitis - Guinea Lynx Records

I hope that this helps you and your vet in how to best to move forward?
 
Thanks @Wiebke - some very useful information that I haven't come across so far.

I noticed that you are located in Coventry, we're actually located in Solihull and wondered if you have a recommended vet in the area (although I know a lot aren't taking referrals currently)? Our vet has been helpful, but I was a little disappointed that we weren't given fibreplex and critical care from the offset after since reading that guinea pigs often get an upset stomach on antibiotics - so I'm not too sure if they are experts...

Therefore we're considering getting a second opinion, and one with knowledge of sterile IC would be great.

Thanks,
Ryan
 
Thanks @Wiebke - some very useful information that I haven't come across so far.

I noticed that you are located in Coventry, we're actually located in Solihull and wondered if you have a recommended vet in the area (although I know a lot aren't taking referrals currently)? Our vet has been helpful, but I was a little disappointed that we weren't given fibreplex and critical care from the offset after since reading that guinea pigs often get an upset stomach on antibiotics - so I'm not too sure if they are experts...

Therefore we're considering getting a second opinion, and one with knowledge of sterile IC would be great.

Thanks,
Ryan

Here is our vet locator: Vet Locator
I use a decent general vet's in Coventry for any standard treatment (including for my own IC piggies), daytime emergencies and pts that are not an out-of-hours emergency. But they do trust me by now that I know my piggies while respecting their professional knowledge; that I am always following medical protocol and am not asking for silly stuff or home treat on spec.
For operations, dental problems and anything that needs a piggy savvy vet, I travel to Northampton to the Cat&Rabbit Care clinic provided I can get an appointment in time or the problem can wait until I can be seen for a non-emergency problem/elective operation.

There is a big difference between medications (especially prescription only medications, i.e. POMs) and food supplements/support care products. Vets dispense POMs after a hands-on examination; there is no obligation to stock food supplements which are widely available and do not require a prescription.
It is worth noting that keeping comparatively small amounts of a wide range of medications in stock is actually the area that is most expensive when running a clinic. No frills clinics save cost by stocking only a limited amount of basic medication while exotic vets have much higher fees because they use a much wider range of medications and often instrumentation.
You may find this article here highly interesting: Pet costs - why do vets charge so much?

Please also keep in mind that the vast majority of antibiotic prescriptions is well tolerated. Forums and online research never give you a proper picture because the majority will take a problem-free course as a matter of fact and not post about it. We only get the people with anxiety issues and the ones who have problems who are clamouring for the 'kitchen sink' in terms of care support.

The value of probiotics is actually scientifically not proven as it is not clear just how much of it is actually reaching the gut in a viable state but it does no harm, helps members with anxiety to do something proactive and may even do some good.
If you have other healthy piggies, then I would personally not waste any money on probiotics or even fibreplex (which can help in the comparatively rare cases where piggies suffer total loss of appetite) and just give fresh 'poo soup' (i.e. transfer of healthy live gut microbiome), which is much more effective when done correctly than any other the measures - and it has the added advantage of being totally free...
You can find our poo soup 'recipe' in this guide here: Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

The same goes for recovery formula - you may want to have some at home, but mushed up pellets often go down better because of their familiar taste.
 
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