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UTI + Baytril Help

JaseChase

JaseChase

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Noodle (3 year old boar) has been to the vet today as he has a urinary infection - it doesn’t look like a bladder stone, thankfully. He’s on Metacam and Baytril and this is his first time being syringe fed anything - his brother Tofu is on daily meds so I have practice at least!

The metacam went down no problem but Noodle absolutely hates the Baytril - I’ve been following the syringe feeding guide tips and still getting most of it down his chin/my hand as he absolutely refuses to open his mouth

The Baytril dose is 0.8ml twice daily so it’s quite a lot to get in, I’m reluctant to try diluting it in juice as it’s already a couple of mouthfuls in one go. Is there anything I can mix it with or mash it in to try and make it go down a little easier? Or is he just in for a rough week of bad tasting meds? I’ve been giving the metacam first so far, maybe giving it after might help instead?

His weight is also trending down (1.2kg to 1.15kg to 1.03kg) so I’m going to start weighing him daily to keep an eye on it. The vet said today he feels in good condition so I’m not too worried yet but Tofu had some gastric issues when he was on Baytril in the past so I’m a bit nervous about it

Piggie tax, thank you for any help!

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Hello and I’m sorry to hear about Noodle
My piggy Bobby recently had Baytril and metacam for a urine infection
At one time he was having 5 different syringes of cc food, anti acid, probiotic and the two mentioned
I found the best way was gently go into the side of the mouth and pull it back a little and gently put it in.
Having a treat of coriander or bit of lettuce can help
I did the baytril first , and as he got better it was a little harder but he was used to it and let me do it
Bobby had a reaction to the metacam and it caused some gastric ulcers so he was put on liquid paracetamol instead
I was advised to use glucasamine ( cytease capsules) so I’d discuss this with your vet.
Glucasamine can help to repair the bladder lining after a urine infection
I’d recommend a probiotic ( to help restore his good bacteria) and you can get liquid and powder ones that can be sprinkled on food
Good luck - I know it’s hard work and an anxious time for you and Noodle ❤️❤️
You can do this 🥰
 
Baytril does not taste very nice. It is easier to get it down and then give a treat. I wouldn’t recommend diluting it with anything as it just makes more to get into him.
Definitely give a probiotic 1-2 hours either before or after the antibiotic.!
Definitely weigh daily and step in with syringe feeding. 50g of weight loss is the point at which you step in.

I hope he is ok
 
Thank you everyone! Much appreciated as I’ve been a bit of an anxious mess about him 😊

I’ve ordered in some more pro biotic as I’ve just discovered the one I had is out of date. It’s a powder one (Pro-C) so do I just sprinkle it over some veggies? If I have to step in with support feeding I believe I can mix it in with the critical care is that right?

I did try and go in sideways with the syringe - with Tofu he always opens his mouth that way, but Noodle fully gritted his teeth after the first taste 😅 my partner will be home for tonight’s dose which should help

Going to weigh him in the morning and decide from there what to do about support feeding as he’s lost the weight very gradually - but I think if he’s still trending down I’ll step in from tomorrow. We’ve had only one round of painful squeaking and straining since the first meds this morning so crossing my fingers one week of meds will get him sorted out 🤞
 
I use that probiotic and it says put it in water and I wouldn’t do that as you don’t know what he’d be getting
It’s 1 scoop per 300g of veggies
So weigh the veggies ….as you know should only be a cupful per piggy and weigh the scoop full and adjust what he needs and sprinkle it over
Bobby eats it as it has a pleasant taste I’m led to believe 😂
I also sprinkled a bit of porridge oats with the pellets and you could mix the oats with a bit of banana to help his appetite and his weight
I think baytril does effect the appetite
 
Either sprinkle a bit on veg; mix it into critical care if he is syringe fed; or mix it into a little water and carefully syringe the water to him.
Don’t put anything in the drinking bottle directly
 
Hey, if he likes the taste of metacam could you draw up the baytril and dip the tip of the syringe in metacam so the sweet taste draws him in? Hope he feels better soon x
 
Dignified Sir George has had several rounds of baytril (no advice as he developed a taste for it) and has never lost his appetite so it's not guaranteed.
 
Tory93 said:
Hey, if he likes the taste of metacam could you draw up the baytril and dip the tip of the syringe in metacam so the sweet taste draws him in? Hope he feels better soon x
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That’s a really good idea actually, this morning I ended up giving him the metacam first again because he was so against the Baytril haha. I’ll give this a try tonight, thank you!

He’s doing okay, this morning he did eventually take the Baytril. Right now I’m aiming for two mouthfuls of 0.4ml each with coriander (his favourite) in between - I’m having the most luck holding him up against my chest with his front paws between my fingers and going in sideways, so I’m sure some of it is getting down his chin, but the majority is going in. I read back over the piggie whispering guide and that helped a lot as well

His weight today is 2g less than yesterday - 1028g - and considering his usual is 1.15-1.2kg I’m stepping in with support feeding. He has been trending down over the last few weeks/months so it isn’t an overnight drop of 50g, but he feels light and bony to me. Mixing up the first feed now. Haven’t had to syringe feed either of my boys yet so we’ll see how Noodle likes it! He is still eating veggies and I’ve seen him munching some hay (though I know you can’t tell intake by eye) so he’s partially feeding himself at least

Fingers and paws crossed he gets over this on one course of meds 🤞 I also swapped out his favourite bed and changed the cage liner in the spot he’s favouring, he’s soaking the fleece a lot faster than normal and he isn’t moving around as much. Can report that he still loves the metacam though lol, we played tug of war with the syringe for a good three minutes this morning
 
Think I caught him mid-nap for the feed + probiotic 😅 He managed about 10ml which I’ll take for a first go and he started munching hay as soon as he got back in the cage! I’m hoping the meds will kick in soon and he’ll be back to himself, it’s odd having the cage so quiet without his usual rumbles

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JaseChase said:
Think I caught him mid-nap for the feed + probiotic 😅 He managed about 10ml which I’ll take for a first go and he started munching hay as soon as he got back in the cage! I’m hoping the meds will kick in soon and he’ll be back to himself, it’s odd having the cage so quiet without his usual rumbles

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What a precious boy!
 
Noodle is not enjoying the taste of the recovery food at all - I’m using emeraid at the moment but I’ve ordered some critical care to arrive tomorrow in case he’ll like that more. He seems more off his food today - less enthusiastic about veggies and not sitting munching hay as much - so I’m a little worried. That might be my natural anxiety though 😅

Only got another 5ml or so in him tonight. Depending on his weight in the morning I might offer some oats with probiotic as well so he’s at least getting that. He hasn’t been painful squeaking or straining so the painkiller is doing its job which is one nice thing!
 
Ah hopefully Noodle is recovering and not squeaking when weeing is good
I get feeling anxious ….we just want to help our piggy get better
I offered some forage, fresh grass, a bit of carrot and apple just to stimulate Bobby’s appetite
I don’t think in the short term it matters too much if they’re given treats a bit more
You’re doing a great job and Noodle is lovely ❤️❤️
 
Mine go nuts over the Kavee krucial care, I can't get the syringe out of their mouths. Idk if it is as good as the Emeraid or Oxbow in terms of nutritional value though.

I got it to see if mine like it, in case I can't get a hold on the Emeraid in an emergency situation, as they don't like the Oxbow one and the Science Selective one. I thought it's good to know what support feeds they like before I have the need to use one and that it will take the pressure off of me to figure that out in an already stressful situation. Been there with my first. And to also get my Jazzy used to syringe feeding so it would be easier if need be.

One of them has lost around 50g recently. The vet said probably because of the hay mites and the scratching. I am giving him the Kavee one and he likes it so much that he eats it out of his bowl and gained some of his weight back.

It might be worth trying it if he doesn't like the Oxbow one as well or Science selective one. When Mylo was sick and refused to eat his feed, I pureed carrot and banana and I was filling first half of the the syringe with feed and the other half with banana or carrot, or sometimes just dipping the syringe in it. I know they are not good for them, but at that point it was anything just to get him to eat something. Got the idea from Scotty, but changing his feed to one that he likes worked out the best.

For the meds I think going in a room he is not familiar with might help a bit and dipping the syringe in something he likes like Tory93 said works well with mine. I was going to a different room with my Jazzy and it was easier to give him his antibiotic, because he wasn't wriggling as much and eager to go back in his cage. I have seen people wrap them in blanket as well, but never tried that.

P.S They are so cute and look like twins. I hope he gets better soon. I feel you, it is always stressful when they are sick and even more when they won't take their feed well.
 
How are you and Noodle ?
Hopefully he’s getting used to the syringes and is getting better
I wrap Bobby in a towel and he’s ok with that
 
Thank you for all the support honestly it’s been very reassuring 😊 Noodle has been steadily gaining weight - only 5-10g a day but it’s going in the right direction, he’s at 1.06kg now. He prefers the critical care to emeraid though he still isn’t enthusiastic about it, and I’m finding the CC easier to syringe. Noodle has been better about the Baytril as well now we’re in a routine

Unfortunately Noodle has been squeaking while peeing again, he’s gone off his veggies, and this morning he was a bit lethargic so I rang the vet. They’re admitting him tomorrow for a scan to make sure there isn’t a stone and it is just an infection. I’ve tried tempting him with some oats to at least get the probiotic down him but he wasn’t interested in that either. Might try a treat they don’t usually get, like carrot or banana, just to get the probiotic down at least

As he is gaining weight he must be eating something - I’m still tempted to keep going with the recovery food, at least until he’s been seen by the vet again tomorrow? I have noticed his poops are softer and smaller since day two of the Baytril and it’s been really hard to get him to have any of the probiotic, he just isn’t interested in whatever I offer him. Hoping the vet can advise more tomorrow (and really really hoping it isn’t a stone!)
 
Came down for morning meds and Noodle had gone downhill - lots of jerking, barely lifting his head, bunny hopping instead of walking, wouldn’t take any of his meds even the metacam

Called the vet straight away and I’m taking him in now as an emergency. Really really hoping they can sort out whatever it is

I checked on him overnight and he was alright so this must have happened really fast, any well wishes for my little man much appreciated
 
Oh no. I really hope the vets can help Noodle. Sending healing vibes his way 🤞🏻
 
JaseChase said:
Thank you for all the support honestly it’s been very reassuring 😊 Noodle has been steadily gaining weight - only 5-10g a day but it’s going in the right direction, he’s at 1.06kg now. He prefers the critical care to emeraid though he still isn’t enthusiastic about it, and I’m finding the CC easier to syringe. Noodle has been better about the Baytril as well now we’re in a routine

Unfortunately Noodle has been squeaking while peeing again, he’s gone off his veggies, and this morning he was a bit lethargic so I rang the vet. They’re admitting him tomorrow for a scan to make sure there isn’t a stone and it is just an infection. I’ve tried tempting him with some oats to at least get the probiotic down him but he wasn’t interested in that either. Might try a treat they don’t usually get, like carrot or banana, just to get the probiotic down at least

As he is gaining weight he must be eating something - I’m still tempted to keep going with the recovery food, at least until he’s been seen by the vet again tomorrow? I have noticed his poops are softer and smaller since day two of the Baytril and it’s been really hard to get him to have any of the probiotic, he just isn’t interested in whatever I offer him. Hoping the vet can advise more tomorrow (and really really hoping it isn’t a stone!)
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I mix a bit of probiotic into my piggies' syringe feed if I feed Critical Care. Emeraid is already enhanced and doesn't need extra. In fact, you shouldn't feed more than emeraid at once (see info on the package).

Yes, please keep on feeding, especially as you have been stabilising him with the feed and he is still a good weight. You use the daily weigh-in first thing in the morning to determine just how much he'll need for the next 24 hours.
Here is a new thread you may find helpful in managing weight loss in acute and longer term ill piggies.
Wiebke

Thread 'Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support'

1 Weight and Weight Loss
- Why regular weight monitoring matters
- How weight changes over a lifetime
- How to weigh on your kitchen scales (with video)
- The weight loss rules
- How critical is the weight loss for my piggy?
- Possible causes for weight loss
2 Body Mass Index (BMI) or 'Heft'
- Why is understanding your piggy's weight so important?
- 'Average' weight vs. individual weight - the big trip up
- How to check for the BMI
3 The...
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Your symptoms can cover both stones, sludge or a stronger sterile (i.e. non-bacterial) cystitis on which bacteria cannot get a grip. It can also be something else going on that pushes on the urinary tract.

Wiebke

Thread 'Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones'

1 The Urinary Tract
2 Pees
- Water intake changes
- Pee discoloration
3 Infections
- Bacterial urine infection (UTI)
- Bacterial cystitis
- Sterile cystitis (interstitial cystitis or IC)
4 Stones, Sludge and Crystals
- Crystals, stones and sludge
- Stone and sludge removal
5 Kidneys and Bladder Cancer
-...

All the best for your vet trip. I am sorry that it is such a struggle.
 
Sadly there was nothing the vet could do and Noodle has been put to sleep

When she examined him, he wasn’t responding at all, all his reflexes had stopped and there was something neurological going on. She said it’s hard to know if it started with a UTI/bladder stone that got stuck and affected his brain, or if the brain was the problem all along and his symptoms were from that. He had been trending down in his weight over the last few months but it wasn’t alarming enough to set off any alerts for me, it was very gradual

I knew when I saw him this morning that something awful was wrong. I’d checked him overnight and he was okay then, sleepy and off his food but alright, so at least it happened quickly

He was in a lot of pain so I opted not to do any investigations and just send him over the rainbow bridge - the vet said whatever was going on wouldn’t have been treatable at this stage anyway

I’m a little in shock - he was only 3 years old and had no health issues before this week. Tofu his litter mate was with him right to the end and he’ll be alone now, I will continue the piggie cycle and get him a new friend at some point but for now I think we all need a little time to come to terms with Noodle’s loss

Thank you for all the help and support over the last week. I’d have been lost without the guides
 
Oh I’m so sad to hear about Noodle
You did everything in your power to try to improve his health and you set him free which is love
As slaves we live in awe of these amazing little beings and to experience this is amazing
You will be in shock and it’s ok to be sad and to cry and you have Tofu to keep you grounded
In time the memories of Noodle will comfort you
We are here for you and look after yourself
Popcorn freely at RB lovely Noodle
 
JaseChase said:
Sadly there was nothing the vet could do and Noodle has been put to sleep

When she examined him, he wasn’t responding at all, all his reflexes had stopped and there was something neurological going on. She said it’s hard to know if it started with a UTI/bladder stone that got stuck and affected his brain, or if the brain was the problem all along and his symptoms were from that. He had been trending down in his weight over the last few months but it wasn’t alarming enough to set off any alerts for me, it was very gradual

I knew when I saw him this morning that something awful was wrong. I’d checked him overnight and he was okay then, sleepy and off his food but alright, so at least it happened quickly

He was in a lot of pain so I opted not to do any investigations and just send him over the rainbow bridge - the vet said whatever was going on wouldn’t have been treatable at this stage anyway

I’m a little in shock - he was only 3 years old and had no health issues before this week. Tofu his litter mate was with him right to the end and he’ll be alone now, I will continue the piggie cycle and get him a new friend at some point but for now I think we all need a little time to come to terms with Noodle’s loss

Thank you for all the help and support over the last week. I’d have been lost without the guides
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BIG HUGS

I am so very sorry.

Stones don't cause neurological symptoms in the brain. But the brain and the nervous systems are both organs and multiple organ failure (i.e. a natural death) can start with the brain or the nervous system being the first or one of the first organs to fail. Lethargy is however a general symptom as a result of the body closing down. Sudden organ failure can happen spontaneously and very quickly even in young piggies. It may have just been his time.
Because we love them so much and because of their big personalities we tend to forget that on the bottom line guinea pigs are just small animals with a much faster metabolism that can turn against them. :(

If it is any consolation to you, I lost my 3 years old Maelona out of the blue exactly two months ago. She did come out for her afternoon grass and tucked into it as usual but by dinnertime I found her apathetic, unable to eat and with heaving breathing (can be a result of heart failure). She passed away in the very early hours of the morning. She was a chunky, seemingly healthy sow in the prime of her life.
It's not your fault or an oversight of mine in the case of Maelona; these things can happen and we still know too little as to what is in play in each case to understand what was the actual trigger. It is however very normal to try and put two and two together in the wake of a sudden loss in order to make sense of what we have essentially too little information about for any educated guesses. It is just one of the short straws of the cosmic lottery of bad luck that can happen to any owner and is not anybody's fault.

Please try to be kind with yourself and try not to get hung up over the guilt aspect; this is an expression of how deeply you care and not that you have done anything wrong.

More practical advice and helpful information to help you make sense can be found via this link here:
End of Life and Bereavement Support: Practical Advice for Owners, Kids and Cavy Companions

Wiebke

Thread 'End of Life and Bereavement Support: Practical Advice for Owners, Kids and Cavy Companions'

The following guides have been written to support pet owners in the most difficult of times and to guide them in a very practical and hopefully sensitive way through a most heart-breaking and emotionally taxing period.

For most people the loss of a pet is the first time they are ever confronted with death, whether that is the bad news that their pet won't be able to recover and caring for a dying guinea pig; the sheer physicality of the dying process; the difficult decision whether, when and how to euthanise and how it works as well as the instinctive fear of a loss are all being...
  • Like
 
Thank you, I really appreciate it. I know at least I got him to the vet when he needed it and I have no doubt that putting him to sleep was the right option, the vet said he was already mostly there

Wiebke said:
BIG HUGS

I am so very sorry.

Stones don't cause neurological symptoms in the brain. But the brain and the nervous systems are both organs and multiple organ failure (i.e. a natural death) can start with the brain or the nervous system being the first or one of the first organs to fail. Lethargy is however a general symptom as a result of the body closing down. Sudden organ failure can happen spontaneously and very quickly even in young piggies. It may have just been his time.
Because we love them so much and because of their big personalities we tend to forget that on the bottom line guinea pigs are just small animals with a much faster metabolism that can turn against them. :(

If it is any consolation to you, I lost my 3 years old Maelona out of the blue exactly two months ago. She did come out for her afternoon grass and tucked into it as usual but by dinnertime I found her apathetic, unable to eat and with heaving breathing (can be a result of heart failure). She passed away in the very early hours of the morning. She was a chunky, seemingly healthy sow in the prime of her life.
It's not your fault or an oversight of mine in the case of Maelona; these things can happen and we still know too little as to what is in play in each case to understand what was the actual trigger. It is however very normal to try and put two and two together in the wake of a sudden loss in order to make sense of what we have essentially too little information about for any educated guesses. It is just one of the short straws of the cosmic lottery of bad luck that can happen to any owner and is not anybody's fault.

Please try to be kind with yourself and try not to get hung up over the guilt aspect; this is an expression of how deeply you care and not that you have done anything wrong.

More practical advice and helpful information to help you make sense can be found via this link here:
End of Life and Bereavement Support: Practical Advice for Owners, Kids and Cavy Companions

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I’m so sorry to hear about Maelona, it’s awful when it’s sudden but I suppose at least then they aren’t suffering for a long time. I can feel how much I want to have answers and know exactly what went wrong or if I could have done anything different, but I also know that there was nothing that could really have been done

I do think he was in multi organ failure as you’ve described - from yesterday he was lethargic, keeping to one hidey, refusing food and meds, not fighting the syringe and showing no interest in anything. This morning he’d just drastically worsened and I’m sure his time was here

Partner and I had already discussed we want to continue the piggie cycle whenever one of our boys’ time came - I just thought I had longer! Tofu is back in his cage having a munch on same hay and he’s been keeping to the spot Noodle was in last. Are there any warning signs I should look out for in him? He’s got a vet appointment for his eye issue in a couple of weeks anyway

My little Noodle xx

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