UTI 12 weeks old. Baytril or bactrim?

[Lucy2103]

Hello,
I have a 12 week old guinea pig. 2 weeks ago at 10 weeks old one of my guinea pigs started making an uncomfortable noise whilst peeing. We took her to the vet who said it was not gut and was definitely UTI. She carries on as normal, eats normally and passes both poop and pee. The vet gave her an antibiotic injection on the Thursday and Friday. She perked up a little over the weekend. By Monday she was still in pain so I took her to a better vet who agreed it was UTI. He gave her metacam for the pain but held off antibiotics to see if the injections from previous vet had done the job. By Friday still in pain so I took her in Saturday morning and she was prescribed 0.14ml twice daily of Baytril for one week. We are now on Tuesday so she has had 4 days worth of antibiotics and is still in pain. I have since read online that Baytril isn't good for young guinea pigs and that Bactrim is usually used for UTI's. She weighs 336g. My questions....
1. Is Baytril safe for a 12 week old guinea pig, would Bactrim be better?
2. Is 4 days too early to notice a difference? I've read it takes a long time for guinea pigs bladders to heal from UTI but I hate seeing her in pain and I'm worried she's on the wrong antibiotic or not enough!
3. Does 0.14ml twice daily seem like a really low dosage for her weight 336g?
4. She's also on metacam once a day 0.12ml but this doesn't seem to be helping with the pain. Is this too low?
Thank you to anyone that can help me with these questions. I just want her better.

 

[BossHogg]

I've merged your 2 topics and deleted the duplicate post.

 

[Wiebke]

Hello,
I have a 12 week old guinea pig. 2 weeks ago at 10 weeks old one of my guinea pigs started making an uncomfortable noise whilst peeing. We took her to the vet who said it was not gut and was definitely UTI. She carries on as normal, eats normally and passes both poop and pee. The vet gave her an antibiotic injection on the Thursday and Friday. She perked up a little over the weekend. By Monday she was still in pain so I took her to a better vet who agreed it was UTI. He gave her metacam for the pain but held off antibiotics to see if the injections from previous vet had done the job. By Friday still in pain so I took her in Saturday morning and she was prescribed 0.14ml twice daily of Baytril for one week. We are now on Tuesday so she has had 4 days worth of antibiotics and is still in pain. I have since read online that Baytril isn't good for young guinea pigs and that Bactrim is usually used for UTI's. She weighs 336g. My questions....
1. Is Baytril safe for a 12 week old guinea pig, would Bactrim be better?
2. Is 4 days too early to notice a difference? I've read it takes a long time for guinea pigs bladders to heal from UTI but I hate seeing her in pain and I'm worried she's on the wrong antibiotic or not enough!
3. Does 0.14ml twice daily seem like a really low dosage for her weight 336g?
4. She's also on metacam once a day 0.12ml but this doesn't seem to be helping with the pain. Is this too low?
Thank you to anyone that can help me with these questions. I just want her better.

Hi!

Please be aware that it will take several days to a week (or even longer) for any antibiotic to get to work. Antibiotics build up to a point of optimal efficiency; they do not work instantly like painkillers or anti-inflammatories so you need to be more patient.

Both antibiotics are effective. Bactrim (US)/sulfatrim (UK) is generally considered a bit more effective for urinary tract issues but it takes generally a longer course of it (ca. 3-4 weeks) to get on top of a UTI.

Bactrim is also a little less harsh on the gut compared to bactrim although individual guinea pigs can have adverse reactions to any antibiotic and ALL antibiotics are tolerated by the majority of piggies, or they would have long since been withdrawn. Baytril/enrofloxacin is in many countries still the only licensed antibiotic for guinea pigs and it is still by far the most commonly prescribed antibiotic; you will therefore find a lot more negative information about it and also lots more people without any medical background who are not aware of the bigger picture when they give their advice.

Considering that your baby is 1/3 of the standard 1 kg weight, the dosage is about 1/3 of the standard dosage of baytril for a piggy with UTI (0.4 ml twice daily).
Since the new prescription and course of treatment is perfectly reasonable, please stick with it and do not constantly chop and change just because you have read different things online. Any course of antibiotics should always be completed unless your vet is recommending to stop. Otherwise you are contributing to building up resistance against antibiotics.
If the baytril is not doing the trick, THEN is the time to consider either prolonging it or changing to sulfatrim or your vet may consider an alternative if your piggy has a seriously bad reaction to an antibiotic and completely loses their appetite and needs feeding support.
In the case your piggy is having a bad reaction, then you can find practical advice in these links here:
Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

You may want to support the digestive bacteria in the gut (which can also be impacted by an antibiotic) with a probiotic like bene bac. Give it either 1 hour before (US recommendation) or 2 hours after (UK recommendation) the antibiotic. Either way works about the same. Probiotics are not a medication but classed as a food supplement and pretty widely available.
More information in this link here: Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

PS: Please be aware that when you do your online research that the representation is not realistic; you will get inevitably all the horror stories and miracle cures but what you will not see is the vast majority of perfectly normal recoveries that are taken as granted and not worth posting about. You have to always factor in that silent majority and the fact that a lot of the advice is parroted by people without any medical background at all. If you are suffering from anxiety, then private online research can seriously upset up and be more hindrance than help.

PS2: While we do keep UK daytime hours (where this forum is based although we have members from literally all over the world), we will answer any question in this specially monitored section whenever and as soon one of the monitors and mods is coming on; the monitors, whose experience we fully trust have a badge in their signature. Please accept that we are all doing this for free in our own free time.
Please just start a single thread and don't use upper case in the title (it makes reading the alerts actually more difficult); everybody is seen to and treated just the same although we try our best to deal with any real emergencies first, so there is no need to shout for attention on here. We are thankfully independent of social media and can concentrate on ongoing support. If a thread is posted in a wrong section, a mod will move it if needed.

All the best!

 

[Lucy2103]

Thank you so much for your thorough reply! I have had my guinea pig in pain for 2 weeks and have tried so many forums and groups and no one has got back to me with any answers. This vet wanted her to be on this course for one week so until Saturday (only 7 days). If she is still no better Saturday I would like to presume he'd keep her on the antibiotics? I have also read it takes a guinea pigs bladder a long time to heal from a UTI so a course is usually 2 weeks, is this true?
So in your opinion the 0.14ml dose twice daily is a good amount for her weight of 336g?
Yes I read about the probiotics which the vet didn't mention so I bought rhe Pro-C probiotic which can be added to water or sprinkled on food. Do you know if this is any good?
The metacam doesn't seem to be touching the pain. She was on 0.06 then doubled to 0.12 and is still not helping.
Thanks again for your reply, its very much appreciated! I have been worrying so much about her.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much for your thorough reply! I have had my guinea pig in pain for 2 weeks and have tried so many forums and groups and no one has got back to me with any answers. This vet wanted her to be on this course for one week so until Saturday (only 7 days). If she is still no better Saturday I would like to presume he'd keep her on the antibiotics? I have also read it takes a guinea pigs bladder a long time to heal from a UTI so a course is usually 2 weeks, is this true?
So in your opinion the 0.14ml dose twice daily is a good amount for her weight of 336g?
Yes I read about the probiotics which the vet didn't mention so I bought rhe Pro-C probiotic which can be added to water or sprinkled on food. Do you know if this is any good?
The metacam doesn't seem to be touching the pain. She was on 0.06 then doubled to 0.12 and is still not helping.
Thanks again for your reply, its very much appreciated! I have been worrying so much about her.

Hi!

Your prescribing general vet has looked up the antibiotic dosage before prescribing. Vets in the UK have a resource available in every clinic, which lists all licensed medications and the range per weight in which it can be safely prescribed amongst possible application and side effects for any species of exotic pets a general vet may be confronted with.

The metacam dosage is cosmetic, especially if it is cat metacam (the one officially licensed for guinea pigs although most exotics vets prefer to use three times stronger dog metacam). Most general vets (which is what you are obviously seeing) are not aware that guinea pigs tolerate metacam much better than cats or dogs.
Please be patient and wait for the antibiotic to kick in. If you do not see any improvement within a week, please contact them again. Are your piggies outdoors or indoors pets?

If you are really not getting anywhere, then you may want to see whether you can get to one of the recommended vets in our vet locator on the top bar. We cannot monitor every piggy savvy vet (considering that there around 4000 vet clinics in the UK alone and thousands of vets) and they also move around, but we have built up the locator to help other members in an area to find the best place to go to. It relies on member feedback so it is not evenly distributed but it is a lot better than nothing! If you could add your county to your account details, members could help you with more specific recommendations.
Here is the link to it again: Recommended Guinea Pig Vets

For learning more about guinea pigs, you may want to bookmark, browse, read and re-read at need our very comprehensive and useful information resource, which is one of the largest around: Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

You already have got the link for our one stop emergency and crisis care information collection so you do not have to search all over the place to find the relevant information when in a panic late at night!

 

[Lucy2103]

Hi!

Your prescribing general vet has looked up the antibiotic dosage before prescribing. Vets in the UK have a resource available in every clinic, which lists all licensed medications and the range per weight in which it can be safely prescribed amongst possible application and side effects for any species of exotic pets a general vet may be confronted with.

The metacam dosage is cosmetic, especially if it is cat metacam (the one officially licensed for guinea pigs although most exotics vets prefer to use three times stronger dog metacam). Most general vets (which is what you are obviously seeing) are not aware that guinea pigs tolerate metacam much better than cats or dogs.
Please be patient and wait for the antibiotic to kick in. If you do not see any improvement within a week, please contact them again. Are your piggies outdoors or indoors pets?

If you are really not getting anywhere, then you may want to see whether you can get to one of the recommended vets in our vet locator on the top bar. We cannot monitor every piggy savvy vet (considering that there around 4000 vet clinics in the UK alone and thousands of vets) and they also move around, but we have built up the locator to help other members in an area to find the best place to go to. It relies on member feedback so it is not evenly distributed but it is a lot better than nothing! If you could add your county to your account details, members could help you with more specific recommendations.
Here is the link to it again: Recommended Guinea Pig Vets

For learning more about guinea pigs, you may want to bookmark, browse, read and re-read at need our very comprehensive and useful information resource, which is one of the largest around: Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

You already have got the link for our one stop emergency and crisis care information collection so you do not have to search all over the place to find the relevant information when in a panic late at night!

Ok great thank you! They are indoor guinea pigs. I keep them very clean and I work from home so I am able to keep a good eye on them. I have lots of previous experience with guinea pigs but have never had any of them have a UTI before. The sister has been completely fine so it is strange that this one came down ill just a week and 4 days after I got her! I'm wondering if she came to me with it? I'm hoping she's not just a sickly pig. I have also read about IC but hoping it's not this. Do you know much about IC?
Yes it is the cat metacam that she is on, 0.12ml and it isn't touching the pain. Would you recommend I phone my vets to dicuss putting her on a higher dose? Do they prescribed dog metacam to guinea pigs?
Many thanks

 

[Piggies&buns]

Definitely do speak to the vet again about the metacam dosage if it isn’t helping. Yes they can prescribe dog metacam (it is 3 times stronger) but it isn’t licensed for guinea pigs so unless the vet is experienced in piggies and know they can tolerate higher doses, then they will only give cat metacam

 

[Lucy2103]

So I spoke to the vet on the phone. He said we can up the Metacam to 0.15ml. He prescribed a week of Baytril. I discussed Septrin and he said it is a possibility to try but I think he said the reason he chose Baytril is because it covers a broad spectrum and Septrim can irritate the urinary tract? He prescribed a week of Baytril which finishes Saturday and then to review because he said I should definitely see an improvement in a week if it is definitely a UTI. I am going to try and get a urine sample to take in also so we can definitely confirm it. Can you advise if you think I should have noticed a difference in a week on Baytril if it is a UTI? I also know that guineas take a long time to heal after a UTI so I'm just wondering if I should have seen an improvement by Saturday. So far she is no better.

 

[Lucy2103]

To cut a long story short at 10 weeks my guinea pig started tensing up and making an uncomfortable squeak while urinating. She was taken to the vet and given an injection of antibiotic, anti-inflammatory and pain killer. She was taken the following day for the same. We monitored her over the weekend, still in pain so took her to a better vet the Monday. He prescribed 0.06ml cat metacam for pain relief in the hopes the injections will have sorted problem. Last Saturday still in pain so took her back to the good vet. She's now on 0.14ml Baytril twice a day and metacam 0.12ml.
She finishes her course of baytril on Saturday and she is still no better should I expect to see a change already? 3 more days of antibiotics left. Still speaking in pain and tensing in pain when urinating. Pooping as normal. Been advised its not gut, definitely urinary tract/bladder. She weighs 336g. It's so horrible seeing her in pain.
The vet said he would have expected to see a change in her by the end of the course and that if not it is very unusual and could be something else? I've been advised stones are very rare for a 10 week old piggy as they take ages to form. She's now 12 weeks old. Also read that utis and bladders take ages to clear in guinea pigs. It's just so awful seeing no change at all after all the antibiotics she's been on. Advise please from anyone with experience! I am also going to try and get a sample for them to test.

 

[Wiebke]

To cut a long story short at 10 weeks my guinea pig started tensing up and making an uncomfortable squeak while urinating. She was taken to the vet and given an injection of antibiotic, anti-inflammatory and pain killer. She was taken the following day for the same. We monitored her over the weekend, still in pain so took her to a better vet the Monday. He prescribed 0.06ml cat metacam for pain relief in the hopes the injections will have sorted problem. Last Saturday still in pain so took her back to the good vet. She's now on 0.14ml Baytril twice a day and metacam 0.12ml.
She finishes her course of baytril on Saturday and she is still no better should I expect to see a change already? 3 more days of antibiotics left. Still speaking in pain and tensing in pain when urinating. Pooping as normal. Been advised its not gut, definitely urinary tract/bladder. She weighs 336g. It's so horrible seeing her in pain.
The vet said he would have expected to see a change in her by the end of the course and that if not it is very unusual and could be something else? I've been advised stones are very rare for a 10 week old piggy as they take ages to form. She's now 12 weeks old. Also read that utis and bladders take ages to clear in guinea pigs. It's just so awful seeing no change at all after all the antibiotics she's been on. Advise please from anyone with experience! I am also going to try and get a sample for them to test.

Hi!

PLEASE keep your questions and updates to your single monitored support thread in order to allow us to support you most efficiently and to save us time we could spend on answering threads instead having to merge your threads.
You can pick up your old thread via the Find Thread/Your threads button by the top bar when you come on.

Please read my post above from yesterday and be patient. If symptoms have not subsided by the end of course, contact your vet as you may need a longer one. As explained above in my post from yesterday, UTI usually takes more than a week of antibiotics to cure.

 

[Lucy2103]

Hi!

PLEASE keep your questions and updates to your single monitored support thread in order to allow us to support you most efficiently and to save us time we could spend on answering threads instead having to merge your threads.
You can pick up your old thread via the Find Thread/Your threads button by the top bar when you come on.

Please read my post above from yesterday and be patient. If symptoms have not subsided by the end of course, contact your vet as you may need a longer one. As explained above in my post from yesterday, UTI usually takes more than a week of antibiotics to cure.

Do you know if there is a specific time gap that needs to be left between taking baytril and moving over to Septrin? Thank you

 

[Wiebke]

Do you know if there is a specific time gap that needs to be left between taking baytril and moving over to Septrin? Thank you

No, there is just the usual 12 hours rhythm unless told otherwise by your vet.

Please do not expect quick miracles on the sulfatrim (which is the licensed veterinary brand name for septrin). It works even more slowly than the baytril.

 

[Lucy2103]

My piggy cannot stand the baytril, I've read they take septrin more easily as tastes nice? I spoke to vet yesterday and he said we can try septrin after baytril. Her dose for baytril is over on Saturday as he only gave her a week on it

 

[Wiebke]

My piggy cannot stand the baytril, I've read they take septrin more easily as tastes nice? I spoke to vet yesterday and he said we can try septrin after baytril. Her dose for baytril is over on Saturday as he only gave her a week on it

The problem with the septrin is that the information you are accessing is sadly several years out of date. UK vets are now asked to prescribe sulfatrim (which is basically unflavoured adult septrin) to small exotics for which is now specifically licensed. Like baytril, sulfatrim is not flavoured and like baytril it doesn't taste nice.

Ideally you give any medication quickly and then follow it up with something that takes the nasty flavour quickly away whether that is a pellet or two or the same amount of ribena syringed. You need to be firm and you can use our piggy whispering tips to assert your authority (interspersed with reassurance that they are still loved) to make this proces easier.
Here is our little course in piggy whispering, which is surprisingly effective as your message makes total and instant sense to guinea pigs: Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering and Cuddling Tips

 

[Lucy2103]

The problem with the septrin is that the information you are accessing is sadly several years out of date. UK vets are now asked to prescribe sulfatrim (which is basically unflavoured adult septrin) to small exotics for which is now specifically licensed. Like baytril, sulfatrim is not flavoured and like baytril it doesn't taste nice.

Ideally you give any medication quickly and then follow it up with something that takes the nasty flavour quickly away whether that is a pellet or two or the same amount of ribena syringed. You need to be firm and you can use our piggy whispering tips to assert your authority (interspersed with reassurance that they are still loved) to make this proces easier.
Here is our little course in piggy whispering, which is surprisingly effective as your message makes total and instant sense to guinea pigs: Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering and Cuddling Tips

Thanks so much for that. I try and get it over and done with as quick as possible then offer some veg straight away. I didn't know about the ribena, do I not need to worry about ribena in small amounts? I had no idea they could have this because of the sugar in it.
I have just read all of that information on piggy body language etc. From that information how can I let her know I'm not trying to hurt her when I am giving her Baytril? Sometimes she takes it easily but other times she really struggles and tries desperately to get away.
Thank you

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks so much for that. I try and get it over and done with as quick as possible then offer some veg straight away. I didn't know about the ribena, do I not need to worry about ribena in small amounts? I had no idea they could have this because of the sugar in it.
I have just read all of that information on piggy body language etc. From that information how can I let her know I'm not trying to hurt her when I am giving her Baytril? Sometimes she takes it easily but other times she really struggles and tries desperately to get away.
Thank you

Stroke her gently around the eyes. This is the equivalent of a piggy kiss. Plenty of commiserating, praising and fuss does also help. I always start with a piggy kiss and use it regularly in between as reassurance that a piggy is loved.

Personally, I prefer to give an extra pellet or two instead of ribena (fruit concentrate) because of the sugar issue. You give at the best only a very little.

 

[Lucy2103]

Stroke her gently around the eyes. This is the equivalent of a piggy kiss. Plenty of commiserating, praising and fuss does also help. I always start with a piggy kiss and use it regularly in between as reassurance that a piggy is loved.

Personally, I prefer to give an extra pellet or two instead of ribena (fruit concentrate) because of the sugar issue. You give at the best only a very little.

Ok great, sounds like I've been doing everything I can so far then! Lots of gentle strokes and reassurance all the time, I'll focus more around the eyes next time though
Do you know if cranberry juice or anything else helps with UTI's? A week of baytril tomorrow and still in pain while urinating I managed to get 3ml of urine sample and took to the vets today so Monday my vet will discuss results with me.

 

[Wiebke]

Ok great, sounds like I've been doing everything I can so far then! Lots of gentle strokes and reassurance all the time, I'll focus more around the eyes next time though
Do you know if cranberry juice or anything else helps with UTI's? A week of baytril tomorrow and still in pain while urinating I managed to get 3ml of urine sample and took to the vets today so Monday my vet will discuss results with me.

No, cranberry juice has never brought any noticeable improvement with guinea pigs. It is another of these fads that have made the rounds about 10 years ago but have not stood the test of time.

If we haven't mentioned any online tips on here in this thread, then it is because they have long since been debunked.

 

[piggiemummy03x]

hiya! how did your piggie get on in the end? hope it cleared itself up for both you and your baby!