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Urgent: Advice On Sick Piggy With Bladder Sludge. (euthanasia?)

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Molly Isabella

Molly Isabella

Junior Guinea Pig
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(I'm from the United Kingdom)
Hi guys.
My piggie Oreo is just about 3 years of age. She's always had some health issues and has just been genuinely unlucky.

A few months ago she had an operation for an abscess on the side of her stomach. That went successfully and she recovered.

For the last month or two she's been suffering with bladder sludge. At first, the vets were positive and just advised to keep her hydrated to flush out any sludge and she was put on septrin 0.5ml 2x a day and metacam 0.4ml 1x a day.

Things didn't improve. Oreo started to continuously leak liquid and urine. She is unable to control her bladder. She's had ultrasounds (which confirmed bladder sludge) and blood tests (confirmed she had some liver issues.)

She's constantly crying in pain and is on the most pain relief that she can possibly be on.

She's lots quite a bit of body tone but is still eating, excited and drinking. I'm VERY confused as to what to do. The vet says she has weeks maybe months to live as the sludge will eventually turn rock hard. I have an appointment this evening to put her to sleep as it's unfair to keep her suffering like this. I just want your opinions and do you think I'm doing the right thing? Vets say she wouldn't survive an operation. I love her dearly and just want the best for her.

Thank you! xx
 
Hi - sorry to hear your piggie is in pain with these bladder issues. What weight is your piggie?
Poppy'sMum said:
You can have her bladder flushed under anaesthetic, I had a bladder pig live for 3 1/2 years after being diagnosed & she never developed a stone. Whereabouts roughly are you? Can you get to Simon Maddick at the Cat & Rabbit clinic in Nirthampton? What pain meds is she on?
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She is on metacam @Poppy'sMum - the OP says the dose in the post
 
Poppy'sMum said:
You can have her bladder flushed under anaesthetic, I had a bladder pig live for 3 1/2 years after being diagnosed & she never developed a stone. Whereabouts roughly are you? Can you get to Simon Maddick at the Cat & Rabbit clinic in Nirthampton? What pain meds is she on?
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I'm in South Wales Hun xx
 
Hello and welcome. I am so sorry about the situation you are in :(

I agree with @Poppy'sMum I once had a piggy have a bladder flush for sludge. Sadly we lost her a few days later but I am glad I at least gave her a chance.

I too had the option of having her pts or going ahead with the flush despite her having lost a lot of weight so not being the best candidate.
 
Claire W said:
Hello and welcome. I am so sorry about the situation you are in :(

I agree with @Poppy'sMum I once had a piggy have a bladder flush for sludge. Sadly we lost her a few days later but I am glad I at least gave her a chance.

I too had the option of having her pts or going ahead with the flush despite her having lost a lot of weight so not being the best candidate.
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I'm just really not sure what to do xx
 
Claire W said:
Is there a reason why your vet feels she wouldn't make to through surgery? 1.2kg is a good weight
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I'm not too sure. He basically just said that she's too sick to make it through surgery and that it was very risky. I have an appointment with the exotics vet next week but she's been crying all night and this morning and I'm just so confused as of what do do! Xx
 
Oh yes sorry, re read & saw Metacam :) You can also have her put onto Tramodol as well, less harsh on the kidneys. If you decide to go the bladder flush route you need to get her to a vet experienced in this as it does carry some risk. Mine had hers done by Simon with no problems after & then it was managing her condtion. I'm glad we did it as she was only 20 months old when she developed bladder issues.
 
We have to be really careful not to question what vets have prescribed because they are the ones with the training and have actually seen your piggie.
But just from my own experience your piggie could have more pain killer at that weight and different painkiller eg Tramdaol as @Poppy'sMum has just mentioned too.
Any way you can get to the other vet sooner?
Agree with Claire to that she is good weight to get through a procedure but again we can't see her overall condition etc and the vet is right that ops are risky but you are not being given many options...
 
Poppy'sMum said:
I would wait personally until you have seen the exotics vet next week. Can you bring that appointment forward?
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There's no way I can bring the appointment forward as the exotics vet is only there certain days of the week I'm really considering the bladder flushing route but I can't handle seeing her suffering until next week either so I'm really not sure. I'm so scared I'll make the wrong decision xx
 
Molly Isabella said:
I'm not too sure. He basically just said that she's too sick to make it through surgery and that it was very risky. I have an appointment with the exotics vet next week but she's been crying all night and this morning and I'm just so confused as of what do do! Xx
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I am so sorry as ultimately you know your guinea pig the best so the final decision must be your own.

I would however at least see what the exotics specialist suggests before making any drastic decisions.

Have you spoken to your vet about the use of tramadol? It is a stronger pain killer than metacam and quite a few forum members have used it for their piggies
 
Claire W said:
I am so sorry as ultimately you know your guinea pig the best so the final decision must be your own.

I would however at least see what the exotics specialist suggests before making any drastic decisions.

Have you spoken to your vet about the use of tramadol? It is a stronger pain killer than metacam and quite a few forum members have used it for their piggies
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When I take her this evening I'm going to mention tramadol. She's in a very bad way. Thank you all so much for giving me advice means the world to me! ❤️ x
 
I will. I'm a mess. I'm so upset as she's my first piggie. She's completely soaked as she just constantly wee's and cry's xx
 
Claire W said:
I feel so sad for you as I have had two piggies now who have had this problem :( Just please try and stay strong (((hugs)))
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I'm so sorry Hun
It's awful seeing them go through pain. Everyone's saying I should put her to sleep as it's kinder and will put her out of pain but I'm just so awfully confused and don't know what on earth to do as she has her moments where she looks 'fine' but when she's in pain she'll cry the room down! xx
 
Molly Isabella said:
I'm so sorry Hun
It's awful seeing them go through pain. Everyone's saying I should put her to sleep as it's kinder and will put her out of pain but I'm just so awfully confused and don't know what on earth to do as she has her moments where she looks 'fine' but when she's in pain she'll cry the room down! xx
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Thank you.

It really is an awful position to be in when you have to consider making the decision to end an animals life but I really do think you should see if tramadol is an option first and see what the exotics specialist suggests..

Please also remember that whatever decision you make, its will be the right one for you and Oreo x
 
I will take her tonight. Ask the vet if she can be put on tramadol. I'll also ask if he thinks will be okay to wait for her appointment with the exotics vet and go from there.
Thank you so much! Xx
 
I think if you ask about the Tramodol then you will feel you are doing something positive & if that makes her comfortable then if will buy you time until you see the exotics vet. The bladder flush would be better done by the exotics vet anyway to give your piggy a better chance. Don't feel pressurised into going the pts route until you have the second opinion, as long as she is eating & still moving round etc. If she stops urinating though then that is a medical emergency x
 
This is such a horrible situation for you to be in. I agree with asking about Tramadol. If your vet will agree to this until you can get her seen by the other vet then this is probably your best route. Her pain levels need to be controlled in order for you to wait for the exotics appointment though. As for leaking urine I think there may be a medication that can help with that, but I can't remember the name. I used to help at a piggy clinic at a vets and there was a pig there who had it. I would ask the vet about that too. I can try to find out if possible as I am friends with the owner on FB but she may not remember.
 
Molly Isabella said:
There's no way I can bring the appointment forward as the exotics vet is only there certain days of the week I'm really considering the bladder flushing route but I can't handle seeing her suffering until next week either so I'm really not sure. I'm so scared I'll make the wrong decision xx
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Could you at least contact the exotics clinic and ask them what you could do in the meantime (tramadol)? It is always such a distressing time when you cannot get a piggy in need seen promptly! :(

The weight and age are actually good. My Cariad needed regular bladder flushing in the wake of an bladder stone. She seemed to have a problem with the calcium absorption. I managed to slow it down a fair bit with fiddling with her diet to remove the worst triggers. She lived for another two years after her bladder op at a small weight of 700g until age 5 years and despite needing an emergency spay just months after the bladder op.
However, it all depends on the vet. In the wrong hands, a bladder flush done too forcefully can back up into the kidneys and kill, so you are doing the right thing by not going via your general vet.
Low Calcium Diet For Bladder Piggies
 
She's still a great weight. We had to let Pappis (in Pic) go last August for the same reason - constantly crying and weeing blood :( but she had gone down to 760g from 1.1kg. She was only 3.5 years but plagued with ill health from the beginning - some are just plain unlucky. Hope your little one can be helped xx
 
Agree with the others - a very good weight - and Bumble has recently been put on tramadol - from what I have read on here recently I think you can split that metacam dose down in to 2 doses - as piggies have a fast metabolism and will burn it off quick ( can someone confirm please ) - so are the kidneys failing? did the vet give you a concrete diagnosis or just say kidney problems - you could try fizzy water - 2mls 3 times a day to see if it will help flush out the sludge - my Bumble is also on something called Moduretic to help excrete calcium - my vet got the instructions from the states on how to make it up for piggies (as it is a human medication to help stop stones forming) - as my vet is a referrals specialist and piggy specialist you could always get your current vet to send over any x-rays or scans and a brief history so she can give you her opinion - I would thoroughly recommend her surgical skills - she has done several complicated bladder stone surgeries on Bumble (including removing a stone from the top of his penis bone - the stone couldn't be seen by x-ray or ultrasound - it was picked up on a CT scan ) - she has piggies of her own and is sorting out Smudge for @DoragonHinansho - her name is rachel Mowbray at Vale vets in Dursley 01453 542092
 
Poor girl. Could she be having infections as a result of sludge? My story is perhaps not typical, as I'm in Canada and guinea pig surgery is not as common here as in the UK. One of my pigs (Sundae) had repeat urinary tract infections and was diagnosed with a bladder stone when she was about 2. There was an option to do surgery to remove the stone, but the vet hadn't performed many of them and the cost was very prohibitive (it was about two months of my mortgage, shockingly!) and there was no guarantee that she would not form other stones afterwards. I decided to treat the UTIs that she was prone to due to the crud in her bladder growing bacteria and hope that she got some good quality of life before it all went bad. Fast-forward almost four years and Sundae is still going strong. She is extremely prone to UTIs and as such she is on a suppressive dose of antibiotics constantly (0.3 mL of Baytril nightly.) It keeps the bacterial load in her bladder lower and reduces the number of UTIs. Her discomfort and symptoms (i.e. bladder leakage leading to urine scald, etc.) are secondary to bacterial infections which make her unable to hold it, not the stone itself. She also has no signs of pain like hunching, squealing, low appetite, etc. unless she has an active infection. Despite intermittent flares, she has been a happy girl on suppressive therapy and has now reached old age, something I NEVER thought we would see. It's possible that she may still pass of complications or if we hit a point where she is in pain because we can no longer control the infections. However, she is turning 6 in a week or so and no matter what happens, she has lived into her golden years and I consider the suppressive antibiotics a huge success for her! So it's something worth asking about... I bring it up because Sundae also has leakage, etc.- but only when she has an infection, not from the stones themselves.
 
Poppy'sMum said:
I think if you ask about the Tramodol then you will feel you are doing something positive & if that makes her comfortable then if will buy you time until you see the exotics vet. The bladder flush would be better done by the exotics vet anyway to give your piggy a better chance. Don't feel pressurised into going the pts route until you have the second opinion, as long as she is eating & still moving round etc. If she stops urinating though then that is a medical emergency x
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GOOD NEWS!
We took Oreo to the vets last night. Talked about medication to keep her pain at bay until her appointment with the exotics vet next week and she was given Tramadol So, she's on 2 a day and her metacam which I'm going to split half of for longer pain relief. I have so much hope now and thank you all for your lovely comments. Will keep you all updated. So glad I came here for advice and didn't go ahead with euthanasia as she has so much fight in here! COME ON OREO! You got this x
 
Freela said:
Poor girl. Could she be having infections as a result of sludge? My story is perhaps not typical, as I'm in Canada and guinea pig surgery is not as common here as in the UK. One of my pigs (Sundae) had repeat urinary tract infections and was diagnosed with a bladder stone when she was about 2. There was an option to do surgery to remove the stone, but the vet hadn't performed many of them and the cost was very prohibitive (it was about two months of my mortgage, shockingly!) and there was no guarantee that she would not form other stones afterwards. I decided to treat the UTIs that she was prone to due to the crud in her bladder growing bacteria and hope that she got some good quality of life before it all went bad. Fast-forward almost four years and Sundae is still going strong. She is extremely prone to UTIs and as such she is on a suppressive dose of antibiotics constantly (0.3 mL of Baytril nightly.) It keeps the bacterial load in her bladder lower and reduces the number of UTIs. Her discomfort and symptoms (i.e. bladder leakage leading to urine scald, etc.) are secondary to bacterial infections which make her unable to hold it, not the stone itself. She also has no signs of pain like hunching, squealing, low appetite, etc. unless she has an active infection. Despite intermittent flares, she has been a happy girl on suppressive therapy and has now reached old age, something I NEVER thought we would see. It's possible that she may still pass of complications or if we hit a point where she is in pain because we can no longer control the infections. However, she is turning 6 in a week or so and no matter what happens, she has lived into her golden years and I consider the suppressive antibiotics a huge success for her! So it's something worth asking about... I bring it up because Sundae also has leakage, etc.- but only when she has an infection, not from the stones themselves.
Click to expand...
GOOD NEWS!
We took Oreo to the vets last night. Talked about medication to keep her pain at bay until her appointment with the exotics vet next week and she was given Tramadol So, she's on 2 a day and her metacam which I'm going to split half of for longer pain relief. I have so much hope now and thank you all for your lovely comments. Will keep you all updated. So glad I came here for advice and didn't go ahead with euthanasia as she has so much fight in here! COME ON OREO! You got this x
 
Oh that is great news. Sending healing vibes to Oreo and hugs to you.

Have you started her on a low calcium diet now which should help. Exercise is also key once she is well enough to keep everything moving.

With her being on all this medication etc have you ever tried Pets at Home Pro C which you mix into their water. I use it for all mine especially in times of ill health and stress. It contains probiotic (friendly bacteria), soluble fibre (prebiotic), vitamin c and glucose which all provides digestive support. It must taste nice as well cause mine drink twice as much when it is mixed in their water. I honestly swear by it.

Have they looked at her bladder shape on the x Ray?
Is perhaps her uterus or internal body fat causing it to be squashed in any way which means she cannot fully empty her bladder and can cause sludge to build up?
 
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