Update on piggy

[WobblyPiggy]

Hi,

I'm wondering if experienced piggy owners/vets/rescue workers or owners could help advise me...

Our piggy went back to the vet today...his ear thankfully is just about cleared up...he only has to have his meds for another 3 days and it should be completely gone...however our new vet looked at his eye again. We explained that it had been injured and were not sure how, but the treatment he was given wasn't good as the eye drops dried it to the point of it having a massive scab on his eye ball, and stained yellow from the diagnostic dye. He was happy with the treatment of it afterwards, giving him lubrathal every 3-6 hours, and terramycin any time he gets conjunctivitis and the skin is kept clean and gunk is removed with a damp cotton pad (cooled down boiled water as I dont trust the tap water to be completely safe). He thinks there may however be a growth or tumour behind it.

He has said that he is a healthy weight (1.4kg plus weight gain from his 1.3kg 5 days ago) and he is surprised at how much fight he has as he tried to leap off the table and has bitten my chin in an attempt of getting out of meds...it didn't work. And apart from his ear and his impaction (he was given to me without being neutered) he is healthy and eating, drinking and bulldozing around as normal. We have been given 3 options (one to me isn't an option)

The first is to carry on like we are keeping him clean, keeping his eye clean and lubricated (it does include through the night which i get up and do ever around 4 hours) and if it becomes uncomfortable or inflamed to ring them and he will see him straight away and give us pain meds and antibiotics straight away until it is time for him to pass over the rainbow bridge...he is currently anywhere from 5-7 he is a rescue.

The second option is to have surgery on his eye and to see if there is anything behind it, which can make it more complicated as he may not be able to remove it. Plus there is a possibility with his age he may not pull through or he could get an infection after or he believes the more likely occurance would be him pulling it open with his antics. Which means if he gets infected or anything he belives he may not pull through

Or the 3rd is to put him to sleep now, which to me is not an option as he is still fighting and still quite happy eating his hay and pellets and veg with the odd blueberry or strawberry. And he is quite happy to run around yelling and demanding to run through my legs and have lap time to get his back scratched.

Were unsure of which one to do as we want to give him the best fighting chance possible and the best life possible, were having a hard time making a decision so anyone who has maybe been through similar situation could give us any advice would be amazing.

Hope everyone is having a great day and all your piggies are having plenty of snacks and cuddles!

 

[Siikibam]

I’m sorry your boy is ‘unwell’. I’ll tag @Merab's Slave who has good advice on making decisions. I understand why you don’t want to put him to sleep and I would likely also not see that as a choice. Is there a possibility of a scan to check for a growth behind the eye?

Otherwise I can’t tell you which one you should go with. Your vet sounds like he’s got things in hand and between you the best decision will be made.

 

[PigglePuggle]

I think @furryfriends (TEAS) and @Wiebke have most experience of this sort of thing, also @alpacasqueak who had a gorgeous pirate chinchilla and also a piggy who had eye removal (enucleation) surgery.
If piggy has a good quality of life and is pain free it probably isnt PTS time just yet but at an advanced age there is always a greater risk of surgery.
Sorry you are in this difficult position @WobblyPiggy but I am sure any decision you make will be with your piggy's best interests at heart x

 

[Wiebke]

@furryfriends (TEAS) has the most experience with retrobulbar abscesses and growths in the head as she specialises looking after guinea pigs with chronic dental disease and comes across all kinds of problems.

It is a very difficult shot to call when you have to weigh up different pros and cons against each other. There is also no 'right' or 'wrong' solution. Any decision has to feel right for your boy as well as right for you so you can live with it in the long term; especially when it doesn't come off - you want to be sure that you have made any decision with the best interests foremost in mind. As every case is unique, it has to be judged on its own merit.

However, at this age, eye surgery does come with an increased risk of fatality vs. long term relief from pain and a chance to get to what is behind the eye or living long term with some chronic pain/discomfort in the eye - it is not an easy one to call at all. Your boy is however a very good weight for his age. Please accept that we cannot make the decision for you.
I agree that he has too much zest for life for pts right now.

When my Meleri had her enucleation operation this spring, she was only 3 years old and would have been facing the second half of her life in constant pain from her strong cataract leaking proteins into the eye and causing an infection. Any hay poke or injury on her cataract eye (which is at greater risk of one) would have meant that things would be going REALLY bad.
My 'mature' Hafina (she wasn't young when she was dumped with a bad long term untreated eye infection) sadly died in her emergency operation from heart failure when she developed an infection inside the eyeball that didn't react to antibiotics and turned to a bulging eye with glaucoma.

All the best!

 

[Merab]

Thanks for the tag @Siikibam

Sorry you’re facing a difficult decision @WobblyPiggy .
If I have a difficult decision to make I weigh up the advice and options and make a decision.
Then live with it for a while. If it still feels right then go with it.
If it feels uncomfortable then make a different choice.

You know your piggy and it sounds as if you have a good vet.
I’m sure you will make the right choice.
Holding you in my thoughts

 

[WobblyPiggy]

I’m sorry your boy is ‘unwell’. I’ll tag @Merab's Slave who has good advice on making decisions. I understand why you don’t want to put him to sleep and I would likely also not see that as a choice. Is there a possibility of a scan to check for a growth behind the eye?

Otherwise I can’t tell you which one you should go with. Your vet sounds like he’s got things in hand and between you the best decision will be made.

Hi, thank you for the reply and tagging others to help, we could ask for a scan however the vet is fairly confident that there is a growth there as his eye is slightly buldging and his bottom eye lid is dropping...the vet has been great with him despite his great escape attempt...

 

[WobblyPiggy]

Thanks for the tag @Siikibam

Sorry you’re facing a difficult decision @WobblyPiggy .
If I have a difficult decision to make I weigh up the advice and options and make a decision.
Then live with it for a while. If it still feels right then go with it.
If it feels uncomfortable then make a different choice.

You know your piggy and it sounds as if you have a good vet.
I’m sure you will make the right choice.
Holding you in my thoughts

Thank you for keeping us in your thoughts, we have been loving with his eye since May time so far...the regime works for him so far despite him fighting his picking up...but he was always a bit scatty as we haven't even had him a year yet...

 

[WobblyPiggy]

@furryfriends (TEAS) has the most experience with retrobulbar abscesses and growths in the head as she specialises looking after guinea pigs with chronic dental disease and comes across all kinds of problems.

It is a very difficult shot to call when you have to weigh up different pros and cons against each other. There is also no 'right' or 'wrong' solution. Any decision has to feel right for your boy as well as right for you so you can live with it in the long term; especially when it doesn't come off - you want to be sure that you have made any decision with the best interests foremost in mind. As every case is unique, it has to be judged on its own merit.

However, at this age, eye surgery does come with an increased risk of fatality vs. long term relief from pain and a chance to get to what is behind the eye or living long term with some chronic pain/discomfort in the eye - it is not an easy one to call at all. Your boy is however a very good weight for his age. Please accept that we cannot make the decision for you.
I agree that he has too much zest for life for pts right now.

When my Meleri had her enucleation operation this spring, she was only 3 years old and would have been facing the second half of her life in constant pain from her strong cataract leaking proteins into the eye and causing an infection. Any hay poke or injury on her cataract eye (which is at greater risk of one) would have meant that things would be going REALLY bad.
My 'mature' Hafina (she wasn't young when she was dumped with a bad long term untreated eye infection) sadly died in her emergency operation from heart failure when she developed an infection inside the eyeball that didn't react to antibiotics and turned to a bulging eye with glaucoma.

All the best!

Hi, I understand this is my decision to make, I was just hoping for some wise words and some shared experiences of other owners to help weigh it out as I am terrified of making a bad decision when it comes to the piggies...I'm so glad Meleri's surgery went well for her and I hope she is comfortable still and living her best life with you...I am sorry about Hafina its awful someone dumped her instead of trying to help...I'm glad though you helped in getting her treatment... I have never had a piggy with an eye issue before so it it difficult for me to make a decision straight away...I hope all your piggies and other animals are well!

 

[WobblyPiggy]

I think @furryfriends (TEAS) and @Wiebke have most experience of this sort of thing, also @alpacasqueak who had a gorgeous pirate chinchilla and also a piggy who had eye removal (enucleation) surgery.
If piggy has a good quality of life and is pain free it probably isnt PTS time just yet but at an advanced age there is always a greater risk of surgery.
Sorry you are in this difficult position @WobblyPiggy but I am sure any decision you make will be with your piggy's best interests at heart x

Hi, we are trying to, the vet seems to think he isn't in pain however he does keep getting a crusty sleep like substance around his eye which he doesn't like taken off and has a few times developed svabs because he has scratched it off himself before I got a chance to get to it by pulling some of the fur out...

 

[alpacasqueak]

So sorry you’re going through this with your little man, it’s very stressful especially when you don’t know what it is you’re dealing with!
I was in the same position with my chinchilla Pedro, he was 8 at the time so middle-aged for a chin, it turned out to be a retrobulbar abscess (an abscess behind his eye) which unfortunately burst before I could do anything, he went downhill in a couple of days and it was all very fast! He had the eye removed which went really well but I spent almost a year flushing out his empty eye socket due to it not healing properly, his eyelids got infected and they were removed in a second op! He was still a very happy boy throughout, even with having teeth filings every six weeks and lots of meds and syringe feedings, he was one in a million but I lost him in 2019 after he got another infection bless him.
(There’s a very long thread I started here, my phone won’t let me put a pic of him on!

Poor Pedro the Chinchilla :()

My little old Jess the pig (right on my avatar and aged 6 and a half at the time) had to have her eye removed because of an injury three weeks after I lost Pedro (most likely her cagemate’s nail as it was a very deep hole)! Which caused her eyeball to rupture, I found her in the morning and rushed her to vets, the next day she had the surgery. All went really well for her too, it healed fairly well (definitely compared to Pedro’s) but the surgery was quite tough on her with her age and her recovery time was quite long, with me giving her extra feeds etc as it took her a good few weeks to get back to normal again, but after that she did amazingly and lived for almost another year (as the little old boss!)!

Jess is Almost Perfect Again!

Both of my babies surgeries and all of their care were with the brilliant Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton as they’ve been my vets for many years (with chins and pigs), absolutely amazing with small furries especially the ones that are out of the ordinary like with Pedro! I really trusted them so I’d definitely recommend a very experienced vet that has dealt with similar before if you choose to go for surgery, I’d always say them if possible but I see you’re very far away!

My pair would’ve had to be put to sleep if I didn’t choose to put them through the ops, I’m so glad I went through with both, despite being very worried! Even the crazy year of flushing out chinchilla eye sockets I’d do again as my boy was out of pain and had another happy year as King of the House!
But it’s definitely a very hard decision especially when they’re older, I’m lucky that I’m fairly close to that great vets and both surgeries were pretty successful. I hope that helps a little and really hope you can decide what’s best for you and your boy x

 

[WobblyPiggy]

Thank you for sharing your experience with me...I'm so glad both your babies surgeries went well and that Pedro got to live his best life as a pirate chinchilla...and that Jess had a good recovery...I hope we can make the best decision for him...we believe similar to your situation with Jess that it was his cage mate that caused it...maybe while trying to clean him or maybe fighting (theyre both unneutered) and it was like it happened within a few hours...he is genuinely happy until it comes to take his meds...our main worry is how much of a bulldozer he is...its like he has no conception that he doesn't need to flatten his nose against everything to move it...but they did come to us from a situation where there had been a few dozen males in close proximity...and he even came to us with missing patches of fur and scabs all over him...so we assume that was just how it was in his previous home...we are also very worried about him itching it and potentially popping it open if it was sown shut as he has a habit even now of trying to itch it after his eye drops...I have to hold him for around 10 minutes after to get the eye drops to settle or he will sit and scratch his eye...but at the same point we don't want to leave it if he is constantly going to get infections/conjunctivitis or if it will potentially cause other issues as i wouldn't want him to go through unnecessary discomfort if it can be helped...as much as he loves the taste of metacam...

 

[alpacasqueak]

It’s so difficult to know what to do for the best, I feel for you and know how hard it is to make the decision for them. Glad I could help a little! You know him best and whatever decision you make will be in his best interests I’m sure.
He sounds like a lovely little bulldozer! Sounds like he found an amazing owner with you and he’s been a very lucky boy to have you x

 

[Wiebke]

Hi, I understand this is my decision to make, I was just hoping for some wise words and some shared experiences of other owners to help weigh it out as I am terrified of making a bad decision when it comes to the piggies...I'm so glad Meleri's surgery went well for her and I hope she is comfortable still and living her best life with you...I am sorry about Hafina its awful someone dumped her instead of trying to help...I'm glad though you helped in getting her treatment... I have never had a piggy with an eye issue before so it it difficult for me to make a decision straight away...I hope all your piggies and other animals are well!

Here is Meleri's operation and recovery thread. She was eating grass with her friends within 15 minutes of her return home from her operation and has never looked back. I have included pictures of her fully healed face. She just lives with an eye squeezed shut but no pain.

It is always very difficult to make decisions when the situation is not as clear-cut and any solution comes with some massive risks or draw-backs. If in doubt, always listen to your gut feeling; it is the one that tells you what you will be able to live with best in the years to come when either way is taking important but different welfare aspects into account. If you go with your heart, then your heart will be there again in the same place once the whole dust has settled.

It is never easy to choose between a big gamble with a major win but also a major risk of potential fatality or a degree of constant pain and discomfort and the potential need to pts if the managed condition is taking a turn for the worse or a new factor comes into play. Since we cannot have a peek at the outcome, we have to unfortunately make these decisions in the dark. In your case, it comes down to the degree of pain your boy is in - it is worth the risk of a shorter life to buy him freedom from it or is the pain bearable enough to be managed but you may have to call the shots whenever things worsen further as this will be your last chance for an op. You have to weigh up for yourself, which one you are more comfortable with. There is no right or wrong; but there is also never an easy way out. The only thing that you can take away from it is that if you truly look into the dark and do not shrink away from it, you can walk forward knowing that you have made any executive decision to the best of your knowledge, love and care. This will give you the emotional fundament to stand on later on.
We only ever can do our best feeling our way through a maze in a dark room when the lamp switch of the room is at the far side; it helps when you know that you would make the same decisions again at a similar fork in the maze in hindsight because you have looked deep enough into your heart. The soul-searching is usually the stronger the more life-changing choices we have to make and you will be revisiting them again when your piggy dies as an inevitable part of the grieving process. It gets a bit easier if you know your heart and you know you would make the same decision again.

Is that 'wise' enough for you help you understand a bit more what underlies your decision making process?
Please keep in mind that all that stumbling around is part of our emotional growing process; sometimes the pain from a bad decision can make you grow faster and do a lot better later in life. My 'wisdom' has come with plenty of knocks and regrets, dead ends and having to learn with them in a constructive way.

 

[WobblyPiggy]

It’s so difficult to know what to do for the best, I feel for you and know how hard it is to make the decision for them. Glad I could help a little! You know him best and whatever decision you make will be in his best interests I’m sure.
He sounds like a lovely little bulldozer! Sounds like he found an amazing owner with you and he’s been a very lucky boy to have you x
[/QUOTE

Thank you...we are trying with them all...the three I have currently are the oldest i have owned...the care regime for each of them is so different and is sometimes exhausting but worth it when you see the relief on their faces or they give you a quick lick of appreciation...it sounds like all your animals have found an amazing home with you too and will have many bright and wonderful times to come

 

[WobblyPiggy]

Here is Meleri's operation and recovery thread. She was eating grass with her friends within 15 minutes of her return home from her operation and has never looked back. I have included pictures of her fully healed face. She just lives with an eye squeezed shut but no pain.

It is always very difficult to make decisions when the situation is not as clear-cut and any solution comes with some massive risks or draw-backs. If in doubt, always listen to your gut feeling; it is the one that tells you what you will be able to live with best in the years to come when either way is taking important but different welfare aspects into account. If you go with your heart, then your heart will be there again in the same place once the whole dust has settled.

It is never easy to choose between a big gamble with a major win but also a major risk of potential fatality or a degree of constant pain and discomfort and the potential need to pts if the managed condition is taking a turn for the worse or a new factor comes into play. Since we cannot have a peek at the outcome, we have to unfortunately make these decisions in the dark. In your case, it comes down to the degree of pain your boy is in - it is worth the risk of a shorter life to buy him freedom from it or is the pain bearable enough to be managed but you may have to call the shots whenever things worsen further as this will be your last chance for an op. You have to weigh up for yourself, which one you are more comfortable with. There is no right or wrong; but there is also never an easy way out. The only thing that you can take away from it is that if you truly look into the dark and do not shrink away from it, you can walk forward knowing that you have made any executive decision to the best of your knowledge, love and care. This will give you the emotional fundament to stand on later on.
We only ever can do our best feeling our way through a maze in a dark room when the lamp switch of the room is at the far side; it helps when you know that you would make the same decisions again at a similar fork in the maze in hindsight because you have looked deep enough into your heart. The soul-searching is usually the stronger the more life-changing choices we have to make and you will be revisiting them again when your piggy dies as an inevitable part of the grieving process. It gets a bit easier if you know your heart and you know you would make the same decision again.

Is that 'wise' enough for you help you understand a bit more what underlies your decision making process?
Please keep in mind that all that stumbling around is part of our emotional growing process; sometimes the pain from a bad decision can make you grow faster and do a lot better later in life. My 'wisdom' has come with plenty of knocks and regrets, dead ends and having to learn with them in a constructive way.

Very wise indeed...I'm glad Meleri was a happy piggy so soon after the op...it must have put you a bit more at ease...hes not in pain as far as we can tell but I did get some metacam just incase from the vet...he is eating and drinking and still biting at med time...we will have hopefully come to a decision by the end of today as we discuss it further...you are right however about making the decision in the dark...id love to be able to see into the future and see the outcome if both decisions...it would make it so much easier...and less worrisome...all I know is it wasn't a decision I wanted to ever face...

 

[Wiebke]

Sorry, here is the link to Meleri's thread: Please keep your fingers crossed for Meleri's eye removal operation!

 

[LMPigs]

Please feel free to shoot me down if this is insane, but if there is a concern about him scratching the stitches out if you proceed with the op, would it be possible to make something similar to those cones they put on dogs to stop them chewing off bandages etc, so that he couldn't reach his eye with his little feet?

 

[Wiebke]

Please feel free to shoot me down if this is insane, but if there is a concern about him scratching the stitches out if you proceed with the op, would it be possible to make something similar to those cones they put on dogs to stop them chewing off bandages etc, so that he couldn't reach his eye with his little feet?

Hi!

It's been tried numerous times but unfortunately piggies will inevitably wiggle out of them within a few minutes. Their body build is too compact for that, not to mention the issue that they need to eat their re-digestive poos (caecotrophs) that contain the nutritious hay/grass fibre bits for the full breakdown during the second run through the gut. These poos are generally picked up directly from the anus.

Any wound that a piggy keeps persistently biting open is a sign of internal pain in that area or of the healing process not happening. It needs to be seen by a vet as soon as possible because if the underlying issue is not dealt with, the healing process cannot properly happen. Any normal operation wound will be simply ignored by the piggies as it is not hurting. Operation methods (including wound stitching or gluing) have also moved on so we are seeing much less of this kind of problem than a decade ago.

 

[WobblyPiggy]

Hi,

We did ask the vet and he said the same as @Wiebke that pretty much because of the shape of piggies they will squish their face out of it...and that they do need to eat their poops...the vet is worried if there is a growth behind it or tumour that it could cause more issues quicker due to the eye being gone...such as growing out through the socket if it wasn't shut...and because he did try to dive off the table in an escape attempt several times (thankfully was caught by family member who realised what he was about to do) the vet realised that there could be significant concern for him ramming his face into his surroundings...and as we just realised when he decided to head butt me he managed to bruise me...

 

[Viennese Furbabies]

Hi, I'm really sorry you have to make such a tough decision. So your vet isn't really in favour of the operation? Or am I misinterpreting your last post?

I can only add a little bit of my experience, maybe to give another example about having to live with your decision as Wiebke described above.
A few years ago I had an extremley shy piggy who really couldn't stand being held. I got her when she was 3+ and usually I'm pretty sucessful in building a trusty relationship with my piggies. Not in this case. So when she got ill, I was only able to provide her with the most basic vet care, because she would have freaked out. So we were down to pain medication. I still believe it was the right decision in her case, but it was really hard to live with during the weeks/months it lasted. Much harder than I had thought it would be.

I truely believe that all of us can only decide with the best interest of the piggy in mind and in your heart not knowing what the outcome will be with either option. Sometimes it really is the best option to do 'nothing', if the piggy is happy ... and take it day after day.
But it also depends on the question what you could live with better: go for the operation if it goes terribly wrong or don't go for it and live with the question if it could have helped.

I hope you understand what I mean (sometimes I wish I could write in German that would be less clumsy).

 

[LMPigs]

Makes sense, thank you both for responding. I had forgotten about their poop eating habits as well.

You are in a tough place but it's obvious from your posts that you are deeply considering the options and are focussed on what's best for him. I am sure whatever choices you make will be the best anyone could have done.

 

[WobblyPiggy]

Hi,

The vet is skeptical that it would be in his best interest as he seems happy and is still fighting...and belives that the treatment so far is good for him...but he has left it up to us...we made the decision last time (with the old vet who we didnt trust very much) not to have it done as the state he was in I dont think he would have survived...this time i think he would but its more of a case of the aftermath of it...and having an extra two elder piggies on top to care for the eldest possibly being 9...he isn't keen on being handled by me...I think because I normally do all the prodding and poking but once I have him he normally just sits and looks at me...or he gets put on someone else's lap which he enjoys...he is more than happy running around on the floor...and we have worked out that if we provide him with a box to stand on it is a compromise to him being picked out but he still gets lap time and held...as do all of them but the other two just come to us to be held as they love it...I'm sorry to hear about your piggy it is difficult to build trust with them sometimes...I'm sure even with how unsure she was of you she still felt loved and cares for...two of our piggies we haven't even had a year yet (one of which is the piggy with the eye issue) but the eldest piggy she is a brave piggy and decided on our first meeting I was her human now and sat on my chest and licked my face...shes now been with us two and a half years...I think it is the best feeling in the world though when they finally trust you and will willingly come to you...sometimes I do wonder if they realise even if they don't like the prodding and the meds they realise after they feel better and understand that you're helping them get well again...

 

[WobblyPiggy]

Makes sense, thank you both for responding. I had forgotten about their poop eating habits as well.

You are in a tough place but it's obvious from your posts that you are deeply considering the options and are focussed on what's best for him. I am sure whatever choices you make will be the best anyone could have done.

Thank you...and thank you for your question as well...we are trying to...I hope all your piggies/animals are well and getting plenty of snacks!