Unwell boar with deep breathing

[Guineasmama]

Hi all. My boy Milo who is 5 has excess gas a months ago (due to being given broccoli too often over few days) with really small dry poops that were orange tinged and tear shaped. He had paradoxical breathing (sides of body moving in and out deeply).

We resolved the issue by taking him emergency vets at 1am with me thinking he was going to die as he couldn’t lay comfortably. He was fine again and then a week later, same issue. Vet gave Emeptid to get intestines moving and metacam. Also suggested Milo take lactulose to soften the poops. He was fine for a 3 weeks after this episode.

Last week, he started to do do a short squeak when weeing. His poops were normal colour, bit smaller and tear shaped again but he was eating normal.

Vet put him on baytril for 5 days and metcam, thinking it was UTI.

He stopped squeaking when weeing; however since Friday 4th March, I’ve noticed his breathing has gone paradoxical again. His poops are larger but tear shaped.

I started him back on metcam and took him vets again Monday. Heart is fine (not failing), lungs sounded clear, urine test was fine with some crystals but she said nothing alarming. She started him back on baytril. She said if he doesn’t improve within 3-4 days, to maybe to an X-ray under general anaesthetic but she says she doesn’t want to cause him any further stress and some piggies don’t make it though.

He is eating hay and veggies, slightly withdrawn and not his loud wheeling for food when he hears fridge door open. When he does squeak, his voice sounds different. Poops are tear shaped still.

It’s the breathing that’s upsetting me. He’s not lost any weight and I’ve started him on critical care.

Any advice? I wanted vets to do a xray with no general anaesthetic but vet said it won’t reveal much as the one with. She also said she can offer another antibiotic doxycycline.

I just don’t know what’s wrong with my boy. He’s my first Guinea pig (I’ve got 3 now and has 3 others in soft) and I don’t want my boy in pain or to pass away yet.

Please help someone. I have attached a video of this breathing.

Thank you

 

[Wiebke]

Hi

Has your vet checked the heart? Diaphragmic breathing means that he struggles with breathing; usually because of a fluid build up in either the lungs or the chest cavity. Would they consider a diuretic?
It is important to find out whether the gassing or rather another underlying issue (including a mass pushing on the heart and the gut) is causing secondary gassing and breathing problems.

Please keep on support feeding and offering water. For once, don't go by just weight because gassing as well as fluid build up can mask weight loss but also by the poo shape and try to get them back to normal size and consistency if possible. Something is clearly going on. Small hard poos are an indication of not drinking and eating much or at all - but please keep in mind that the poo out put is running about a day behind the intake.

It is very much an anxious time for both you and your boy. While a bad diagnosis may be a shock, at least it will give you more ground to stand on to make any necessary decisions for his best welfare. It is the knowing that something serious is amiss but being in the dark as to what is not right that is often much more stressful to deal with because it makes you feel so helpless.

Doxycycline is one of the antibiotics that are harder on the gut than others. It is however considered a better antibiotic for respiratory issues. Perhaps your vet may consider azithromycin as another last ditch alternative? Again, it is very strong and can cause total loss of appetite but not quite as often as doxy. This in view of his bloating issues. I can only speak from an owner's perpective and experience, though.

A mild sedation is often recommended because for the best pictures, guinea pigs need to be positioned in awkward and unnatural poses.

Here is our emergency and bridging care information and practical tips bundle:
Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

Here is our bloating guide although my own ut feeling is that the bloating is more likely secondary and not primary, i.e. a result of pressure on or pain radiating into the gut and not the result of a dysbiosis (overgrowth of the wrong kind bacteria).
Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

I am keeping my fingers firmly crossed for your boy!

 

[Guineasmama]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply; am going to call the vets tomorrow for another appointment. She checked the heart and lungs and said they were both normal. Milo hasn’t had broccoli before and had so much over it for 4 days as he loved it, the gas was due to that.

He’s not gassy anymore, just his breathing. No discharge from eyes or nose.

I did suggest heart issues or fluid on longs but she said she wanted to see if baytril and metacam worked as she thinks it’d a UTI (even though wee showed no infection, she thinks it was clear as he already had baytril last week). She said crystals indicated he had an infection .

I’m worried it could be a mass, hence I’m asking for xray but she insists on one under GA but said to wait. She had a good feel of him and found no lumps.

Thank you and I will continue with critical care.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply; am going to call the vets tomorrow for another appointment. She checked the heart and lungs and said they were both normal. Milo hasn’t had broccoli before and had so much over it for 4 days as he loved it, the gas was due to that.

He’s not gassy anymore, just his breathing. No discharge from eyes or nose.

I did suggest heart issues or fluid on longs but she said she wanted to see if baytril and metacam worked as she thinks it’d a UTI (even though wee showed no infection, she thinks it was clear as he already had baytril last week). She said crystals indicated he had an infection .

I’m worried it could be a mass, hence I’m asking for xray but she insists on one under GA but said to wait. She had a good feel of him and found no lumps.

Thank you and I will continue with critical care.

Could you please take a video of his breathing and upload on a public setting on a place like youtube that doesn not require a sign up so you can then copy across. Our forum is run on voluntary member donations and doesn't have a supported video uploading facility.
I would like to see how laboured the breathing really is. Keep in mind that breathing in piggies with a bloated belly can be more noticeable, especially if they are pushing the belly up sideways. Do you only notice the breathing during acute bloating episodes?

I can only answer based on the filter of your preception and coloured by your own fears and concerns.

A UTI is definitely not connected with heavy breathing but the baytril can easily know the gut microbiome on the head again and can cause another bloating episode. Make sure that you give either 'poo soup' (i.e. live gut microbiome transfer from companion) and/or plenty of probiotics.
You can find the 'recipe' for making poo soup correctly and information on probiotics in this link here: Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

 

[Guineasmama]

Hi Weibke. Thought I’d let you know, I went to see Simon yesterday at C&R clinic and Milo is just getting old. He’s 5 and a half next month and it seems he has heart disease. He’s been prescribed heart meds for 2 weeks to see how he responds. It’s not clear what exactly is wrong but Simon did say when examining his teeth that his gums went purple within 3 seconds of putting the guard in. So seems Milo’s lungs/heart are at issue. He did a scan but not 100% confirmed what’s wrong as it’s not clear. If he doesn’t respond to meds, Milo will need an X-ray and take it from there. His heart sounds muffled and on scan, it wasn’t beating normally.

He’s eating well and keeps looking out of the patio door at the green grass and sun so looks like he is looking forward to going on the grass today.

Thank you for helping x

 

[Wiebke]

Hi Weibke. Thought I’d let you know, I went to see Simon yesterday at C&R clinic and Milo is just getting old. He’s 5 and a half next month and it seems he has heart disease. He’s been prescribed heart meds for 2 weeks to see how he responds. It’s not clear what exactly is wrong but Simon did say when examining his teeth that his gums went purple within 3 seconds of putting the guard in. So seems Milo’s lungs/heart are at issue. He did a scan but not 100% confirmed what’s wrong as it’s not clear. If he doesn’t respond to meds, Milo will need an X-ray and take it from there. His heart sounds muffled and on scan, it wasn’t beating normally.

He’s eating well and keeps looking out of the patio door at the green grass and sun so looks like he is looking forward to going on the grass today.

Thank you for helping x

Wishing you and Milo all the best! I hope that he responds to his heart meds. This usually happens either very quickly or not at all. It very much depends on what is going on (which can often not be all that easy to diagnose).

We can do our best to give our piggies a healthy normal life span but we can never choose when and what they will ultimately die from. In the case of not good news or a close shave it helps me to turn the clock back to zero and see every day more with a beloved piggy as a special gift - whether that is just a few days more or a year or more. Guinea pigs don't have a concept for a set life expectancy; they measure a good life in happy todays - so give him those and look at enrichment and little things that make him happy in his daily routine. You can create a surprising amount of special and comforting memories that way.
Enrichment Ideas for Guinea Pigs