Unsure if my pigs get along or just tolerate each other

[gayfurryclown]

Hi hi!

So my two pigs, Fen and Kino (sows), have been with me since 5th of January, when they were ~5 weeks old. Before that, they were a part of the same herd.

They’ve been together for their entire little lives and have never fought, but there are little things they do which makes me worry they might not last long-term.
Here are a few examples:

- They don’t want to eat next to each other. Fen is the dominant pig, but every time Kino approaches her pile of veggies, Fen either backs away and seems a bit frazzled, or she gives Kino a little “back off” -nip.
(Of course, I accommodate their preferences by giving them each a pile of veggies away from each other, so they can eat comfortably.)
- Anytime one of them is in a hidey, no matter if there’s enough space for both of them, they hate being in one together. Specifically Fen—she always kicks Kino out. Even in situations where they’ve gotten spooked and fled to hide. Fen will kick Kino out.
- I scatter feed their pellets, and anytime they forage for some, if their faces get close to one another or if their whiskers touch, they’ll jerk back and keep their heads turned up. Sometimes Fen will put her nose up to Kino’s mouth to check what she’s got there, or sniff her body while Kino just stands still. They’re just kinda tense.
- I never see them play or groom each other. Like, ever.

It feels like they’re just tolerating each other now and it’s just a matter of time before it falls apart. Maybe I’m just anxious cuz my previous pigs’ bond broke and I had to give them up, and I don’t want to go through that again.

Is this normal? Any thoughts and inputs are appreciated!

 

[Piggies&buns]

What you are describing is all perfectly normal. There is no issue with their bond and it’s not that they are just tolerating each other.

The nip from fen when eating is normal dominance. She is the dominant sow and she is putting kino in her place.

Most piggies never went to share a hide with their cage mate. This is why it’s important you have at least two hides in the cage and that all hides have two exits in them.

Quite normal for them to never groom each other.

Dont worry, they sound like a perfectly happy pair!

 

[gayfurryclown]

What you are describing is all perfectly normal. There is no issue with their bond and it’s not that they are just tolerating each other.

The nip from fen when eating is normal dominance. She is the dominant sow and she is putting kino in her place.

Most piggies never went to share a hide with their cage mate. This is why it’s important you have at least two hides in the cage and that all hides have two exits in them.

Quite normal for them to never groom each other.

Dont worry, they sound like a perfectly happy pair!

That is such a relief, thank you! They have a total of five hides and two tunnels.

I appreciate the reply, thanks!

 

[CTWC]

I know the feeling but I have mentioned on here before I see all the videos of snuggly guinea pigs with hearts practically floating around them as they lovingly groom each other and sleep together blissfully and in reality they don't and two of mine sound like the male version of your two girls but as the experts say it is all how their heirachy works naturally

 

[fluffysal]

The only time The Beastie Boys snuggle is when something scares them and I know their bond is good.

 

[Bertie & Jelly]

They sound like my two boys. My two are grumpy old men - never seen them snuggle

 

[Wiebke]

Snuggly piggies are much rarer than you think and there is actully often an emotional dependency from one of the piggies behind it. Guinea pig groups will generally sleep in little nooks, crannies and tunnels in the thick undergrowth of their denning area. Unlike some other pet rodent species they don't nest and sleep crammed up against each other.

Please be aware that the videos on social media reflect human preferences and not social cavy behaviour or the reality. Who wants to post pictures of your piggies sleeping apart in their preferred spots to garner lots of likes and oohs and awws?
The Herd, the Group and I: Investigating Guinea Pig Identity and Society

What I would recommend is instead of feeding veg in a pile, sprinkle it around the cage; that is encourages forarging behaviours and counts as enrichment. The 'I want what you have' instinct in guinea pigs is however pretty strong because that is how babies learn what is safe to eat from their elders.

 

[gayfurryclown]

Snuggly piggies are much rarer than you think and there is actully often an emotional dependency from one of the piggies behind it. Guinea pig groups will generally sleep in little nooks, crannies and tunnels in the thick undergrowth of their denning area. Unlike some other pet rodent species they don't nest and sleep crammed up against each other.

Please be aware that the videos on social media reflect human preferences and not social cavy behaviour or the reality. Who wants to post pictures of your piggies sleeping apart in their preferred spots to garner lots of likes and oohs and awws?
The Herd, the Group and I: Investigating Guinea Pig Identity and Society

What I would recommend is instead of feeding veg in a pile, sprinkle it around the cage; that is encourages forarging behaviours and counts as enrichment. The 'I want what you have' instinct in guinea pigs is however pretty strong because that is how babies learn what is safe to eat from their elders.

Yes, I actually do scatter feed their veggies as well!

I’m still trying to build a bond with them, and I’ve found that having them eat piles of veggies close to me works. Eventually I pick up the veggies and throw them around so they’ll have to search for the rest.

 

[Wiebke]

Yes, I actually do scatter feed their veggies as well!

I’m still trying to build a bond with them, and I’ve found that having them eat piles of veggies close to me works. Eventually I pick up the veggies and throw them around so they’ll have to search for the rest.

Try to leave your hand lying on the floor with some food on it or holding some through the bars; don't move it and don't be disappointed if it doesn't work for a while.

Patience and persistence will get you there. Keep up a stream of chatter with praise and tonal disappoitment - predators that are making their presence known are not hunting and guinea pigs listen to the tone and the emotion in your voice not so much to your words although they will learn the each other's special call from you (i.e. their names and nicknames).

Food squabbles are normal and part of the daily dominance. A bit like squabbling siblings with the elder insisting on their precendence and the younger (or under-pig) trying to push it and complaining loudly if they don't get away with it or are pushed around. It doesn't mean that they are not bonded; it means that they are family. It is our human misconception that guinea pigs need to be inseparable and loved up; most piggies aren't like that at all. They just get on like a normal human everyday family with teenagers where each has their own room and wants to do their own thing. But they are first and foremost family on the bottom line when the chips are down.

 

[gayfurryclown]

Try to leave your hand lying on the floor with some food on it or holding some through the bars; don't move it and don't be disappointed if it doesn't work for a while.

Patience and persistence will get you there. Keep up a stream of chatter with praise and tonal disappoitment - predators that are making their presence known are not hunting and guinea pigs listen to the tone and the emotion in your voice not so much to your words although they will learn the each other's special call from you (i.e. their names and nicknames).

Food squabbles are normal and part of the daily dominance. A bit like squabbling siblings with the elder insisting on their precendence and the younger (or under-pig) trying to push it and complaining loudly if they don't get away with it or are pushed around. It doesn't mean that they are not bonded; it means that they are family. It is our human misconception that guinea pigs need to be inseparable and loved up; most piggies aren't like that at all. They just get on like a normal human everyday family with teenagers where each has their own room and wants to do their own thing. But they are first and foremost family on the bottom line when the chips are down.

Oh that’s such a good perspective to view it on, thank you

> Try to leave your hand lying on the floor with some food on it or holding some through the bars; don't move it and don't be disappointed if it doesn't work for a while.

I’m pretty much past this point—my pigs will fully leap on me to get some food, crazy lmao. I just want to maintain and strengthen our relationship, and I’ve found that they enjoy eating under my legs when my knees are up, which is why I do both the pile feeding and the scatter feeding.

Thank y’all so much for your replies tho! I knew this forum was helpful, but ever since I joined, it’s really exceeded my expectations! Thank you

 

[Wiebke]

Oh that’s such a good perspective to view it on, thank you

> Try to leave your hand lying on the floor with some food on it or holding some through the bars; don't move it and don't be disappointed if it doesn't work for a while.

I’m pretty much past this point—my pigs will fully leap on me to get some food, crazy lmao. I just want to maintain and strengthen our relationship, and I’ve found that they enjoy eating under my legs when my knees are up, which is why I do both the pile feeding and the scatter feeding.

Thank y’all so much for your replies tho! I knew this forum was helpful, but ever since I joined, it’s really exceeded my expectations! Thank you

Here is our enrichment guide with plenty more ideas how you can strengthen your bond. It is on a very good way if they are not fussed about your presence and are taking food from you. What all those videos online don't show you is how long it has usually taken to get the piggies to the point that is documented. It usually takes months and not weeks due to the fact that most sold piggies haven't had any friendly human contact and are not used to a normal pet home. Trust is a a very tender plant that needs to grow deep roots first in order to shoot up and blossom.

Enrichment Ideas for Guinea Pigs

 

[Minnou]

The only time The Beastie Boys snuggle is when something scares them and I know their bond is good.

Pretty much... My girls also only snuggle... actually it looks more like clinging to each other for dear life - when the scary people (children usually) visit.

Sometimes they'll share a hide/den but most of the time they won't and they don't curl up together, side by side.

They don't really groom each other either; it's a private piggy affair. Although, when Minerva was suffering a mild case of bloat and was uncomfortable and feeling down, I did witness Gaia go over to her and start nuzzling and grooming her cheek.

 

[fluffysal]

Be careful Gaia! You nearly let the Slave know that you DO have a heart .

 

[Minnou]

Be careful Gaia! You nearly let the Slave know that you DO have a heart .

She was probably trying anything she could think of to try and get the grass/veg supply switched on.

Gaia: 'Think Gaia! Maybe do something nice for someone else? Not the Slave though........ Minerva! Come here! *smooches* I know you're sicko but tell me, did the Slave see that?!'

 

[Wiebke]

She was probably trying anything she could think of to try and get the grass/veg supply switched on.

Gaia: 'Think Gaia! Maybe do something nice for someone else? Not the Slave though........ Minerva! Come here! *smooches* I know you're sicko but tell me, did the Slave see that?!'

Piggies are social group animals and very, very good at manipulating and training their human slaves. Underestimate them at your peril!

Who is the Boss - Your Guinea Pig or You?

 

[Sue and Smartie]

I talk a lot to my pigs (they live in my living room so they are right there!) and they talk a lot to me. They all get to know what it means when I say 'Piggy treats', or 'who wants an apple stick?'. They know the sound of my step as I come downstairs in the morning to get their breakfast, they are comfortable with me handling them, but I wouldn't say they enjoy cuddles with me as it means they are out of their own place and away from their piggy friends. So I don't force it on them unless they need to be out of the cage for some reason. They are equally undemonstrative with each other. There are bonds between us all though, you would see that when you observe someone else handling them. They are very different pigs if picked up by a stranger.
I've kept piggies for 20 years now and have only rarely seen them snuggling up together.

 

[fluffysal]

Mischievous Master Boris behaves very differently when my husband handles him. When I have him he is calm and generally cuddles up on me and licks my arms and hands a lot.
With hubby, he climbs all over him and demands chin rubs and pea flakes and is a little bit nippy (not hard nips). I use the piggy whispering techniques and wonder if he is still trying to dominate hubby as he stopped behaving like that with me a few weeks ago.