Unsure about suggested treatment - incredibly cute 2 year old sow with abdominal mass

[midnightsqueaks]

Hello all. I would like to ask for either advice, or your experience with maybe a similar situation I find myself in. Or maybe even just moral support. (Because I feel really lost and overwhelmed and just do not know if I should try an operation with her or not. ) (And sorry, if I don't make much sense, I'm quite exhausted atm )

My small sweet little furry potato, Eli, has crusty nipples, so I was worried she may be developing (or already have) ovarian cysts. I was expecting that she would need a hysterectomy.
Instead they found an elongated growth of some sort in the abdominal part - they are not sure what exactly it is without opening her up.
She is 2 year and about 3 months, long-haired, gorgeous and super cute. She has always been quite small for her age, and even now, she weights only 810g.

I was told that there is most likely no point in even trying to do an operation, because the vet thinks that the mass they found will most likely be not be operable, so we would needlessly add some strain on her body. (Because they need to do a deeper anesthesia than the one they do when just taking blood and such + recovering from the cut itself, etc.)
We got some "support" medication, to make her a bit more healthy and comfortable (see below).

So... I was given 3 options: 1. no operation, just monitoring her and when I see signs she is suffering, then either let her go or try operation. 2. try the operation and when they open her up and it's not operable, they could just ..not wake her up. 3. try the operation and when it's not operable, just close her up again and hope she recovers ok.
I also asked lots of stuff, so I kind of got a 4th option: To open her up, rand if they find things they can remove, take at least those out and use them for biopsy and then maybe get a more tailored medication.

I like the 4th option for the "best long term chance", but on the other hand, I'm very scared I will take away the "last bit" of relatively comfortable life she could have had, if we do not put the strain of the operation on her.
I don't know what to do. She is so far not showing any obvious signs of discomfort. She is active, has a healthy appetite, and so on.
I'm scared that she may be in pain and I just can not tell / will not be able to tell. I do not want her to suffer nor do I want to shorten her life needlessly. (I'm especially scared I will not notice when she starts to suffer too much for it to be worth it. I made that mistake unintentionally with my last boar...)


Some more details:
The growth is about 8 x 3,5 cm big (and I can not believe I did not notice it before...). It seems to be firm, and I was told, that it seems to be attached to the groin and chest muscles. She also has a much smaller growth on the other side, round, about 3 cm. And one other in "hypergastrium", also round, about 1 cm.
They did a sonography and some bloodwork. The vet considers, in this case, a biopsy as an even greater risk than opening her up. The bloodwork was good, and almost everything else seems to be ok. The only other thing was, that they also saw something that could mean there is some little fluid in the lungs. We got some meds to help with that, in case we decide to go for the surgery.
The medication we got is a local one, so the name will propably not tell you anything, but it's used to strengthen the body. It contains Inositol, inositol hexaphosphate, calcium, magnesium, vitamin C, selen. (If anyone is interested, I found an ebay page with english text, but don't know if I can post links, so to be safe, here is just the name: Alavis Sanicell)
And for the lung situation, just to be sure, we got some Furosoral tablets.

 

[piggieminder]

I am so sorry you are having to make such a difficult decision for you piggy. I can't offer you advise only support in your decision. Any decision made out of love and with the guidance of a good vet is ever the wrong one.
I hope a health expert will be along for you soon.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I am so sorry, what heartbreaking news. Be guided by your vet. Spend precious time with your little Eli having cuddles and giving her her favourite treats

 

[Wiebke]

Hello all. I would like to ask for either advice, or your experience with maybe a similar situation I find myself in. Or maybe even just moral support. (Because I feel really lost and overwhelmed and just do not know if I should try an operation with her or not. ) (And sorry, if I don't make much sense, I'm quite exhausted atm )

My small sweet little furry potato, Eli, has crusty nipples, so I was worried she may be developing (or already have) ovarian cysts. I was expecting that she would need a hysterectomy.
Instead they found an elongated growth of some sort in the abdominal part - they are not sure what exactly it is without opening her up.
She is 2 year and about 3 months, long-haired, gorgeous and super cute. She has always been quite small for her age, and even now, she weights only 810g.

I was told that there is most likely no point in even trying to do an operation, because the vet thinks that the mass they found will most likely be not be operable, so we would needlessly add some strain on her body. (Because they need to do a deeper anesthesia than the one they do when just taking blood and such + recovering from the cut itself, etc.)
We got some "support" medication, to make her a bit more healthy and comfortable (see below).

So... I was given 3 options: 1. no operation, just monitoring her and when I see signs she is suffering, then either let her go or try operation. 2. try the operation and when they open her up and it's not operable, they could just ..not wake her up. 3. try the operation and when it's not operable, just close her up again and hope she recovers ok.
I also asked lots of stuff, so I kind of got a 4th option: To open her up, rand if they find things they can remove, take at least those out and use them for biopsy and then maybe get a more tailored medication.

I like the 4th option for the "best long term chance", but on the other hand, I'm very scared I will take away the "last bit" of relatively comfortable life she could have had, if we do not put the strain of the operation on her.
I don't know what to do. She is so far not showing any obvious signs of discomfort. She is active, has a healthy appetite, and so on.
I'm scared that she may be in pain and I just can not tell / will not be able to tell. I do not want her to suffer nor do I want to shorten her life needlessly. (I'm especially scared I will not notice when she starts to suffer too much for it to be worth it. I made that mistake unintentionally with my last boar...)


Some more details:
The growth is about 8 x 3,5 cm big (and I can not believe I did not notice it before...). It seems to be firm, and I was told, that it seems to be attached to the groin and chest muscles. She also has a much smaller growth on the other side, round, about 3 cm. And one other in "hypergastrium", also round, about 1 cm.
They did a sonography and some bloodwork. The vet considers, in this case, a biopsy as an even greater risk than opening her up. The bloodwork was good, and almost everything else seems to be ok. The only other thing was, that they also saw something that could mean there is some little fluid in the lungs. We got some meds to help with that, in case we decide to go for the surgery.
The medication we got is a local one, so the name will propably not tell you anything, but it's used to strengthen the body. It contains Inositol, inositol hexaphosphate, calcium, magnesium, vitamin C, selen. (If anyone is interested, I found an ebay page with english text, but don't know if I can post links, so to be safe, here is just the name: Alavis Sanicell)
And for the lung situation, just to be sure, we got some Furosoral tablets.

Hi and welcome

BIG HUGS

I am ever so sorry that you are finding yourself in the situation of having to choose between a rock and a hard place, as we say in English.

We can unfortunately not make the decision for you and - as none of us can foresee the future - we can also not tell you which option would be the most promising in your case. It all depends on what exactly is going on and whether you want to risk a make or break operation from which there may not necessarily be a good recovery even if she makes it through.
Operations on internal growths tend to have a rather high failure rate, so your 4th option is unfortunately not quite realistic, as much as I am sorry to say - because guinea pigs are so small, large growths like yours are likely already affecting more than one organ since these are really tightly packed and they are also the most invasive sort of operation there is.

You will have to either commit to an operation with the knowledge that it may not come off or you can give your beloved girl the option to just live out her life on terminal care for as long as she has a decent quality of life, not knowing what is going on inside her. What you cannot do is just dip the toe in and remove part of the growth because if it cannot be removed in one piece, then there is a rather high risk that will then spread through the body much more quickly.

I truly wish I could tell you what you want to hear but I can't. There is no right or wrong whether you go for an operation or for opting to not operate; it depends on how high your vet rates their chances of success and your own feelings. Just make sure that you put your girl's welfare and quality of life before your own desire to keep her with you for as long as possible.

Please accept that news like yours always comes as a massive shock. Please give yourself time to think things through, and to also think them through from the perspective of your girl, not just your own. Sleep over it and listen to your gut since you do not have to commit to an immediate emergency operation so you know where your heart is and that you are making the decision you can live with best for the long term. I have done it either way with various piggies of mine, and neither way is easier - they just come with different challenges and different sorts of pain.

Also be aware that your grieving process doesn't start with the moment of death but with the moment a beloved one has only got a limited time to live. This realisation the second worst time - apart from the actual loss itself - so the huge surge of strong and contradictory emotions you are currently experiencing is also down to this.

Please give yourself the time to think things through so you can make your decision - whichever it is - with a clearer mind if not with an easier heart. My thoughts are with you.

Tips For Post-operative Care
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

 

[midnightsqueaks]

I am so sorry you are having to make such a difficult decision for you piggy. I can't offer you advise only support in your decision. Any decision made out of love and with the guidance of a good vet is ever the wrong one.
I hope a health expert will be along for you soon.

I am so sorry, what heartbreaking news. Be guided by your vet. Spend precious time with your little Eli having cuddles and giving her her favourite treats

Thank you both, for the moral support. It is very much appreciated and means a lot to me.
She will be loved and be spoiled for however long we have together. She is a really special one and deserves only the best.
I hope to keep her with me and comfortable as long as possible, but I do not want to se her suffer, so I'll try my best to notice the signs it's time to say goodbye.

 

[weepweeps]

Hello and welcome to the forum. This is the best place for advice and personal experiences.

I’m so sorry Eli is unwell. My Pepper was diagnosed with a probably tumour about a month ago. Sadly he passed away yesterday.

But my advice to you would be to enjoy the time you have with her. Lots of cuddles and kisses. Photos and memories. We can’t prolong their lives but we can cherish every day we have them. X

 

[midnightsqueaks]

Hi and welcome

BIG HUGS

I am ever so sorry that you are finding yourself in the situation of having to choose between a rock and a hard place, as we say in English.

We can unfortunately not make the decision for you and - as none of us can foresee the future - we can also not tell you which option would be the most promising in your case. It all depends on what exactly is going on and whether you want to risk a make or break operation from which there may not necessarily be a good recovery even if she makes it through.
Operations on internal growths tend to have a rather high failure rate, so your 4th option is unfortunately not quite realistic, as much as I am sorry to say - because guinea pigs are so small, large growths like yours are likely already affecting more than one organ since these are really tightly packed and they are also the most invasive sort of operation there is.

You will have to eiher commit to an operation with the knowledge that it may not come off or you can give your beloved girl the option to just live her life on terminal care for as long as she has a decent quality of life, not knowing what is going on inside her. What you cannot do is just dip the toe in and remove part of the growth because if it cannot be removed in one piece, it will then spread through the body rather quickly.

I truly wish I could tell you what you want to hear but I can't. There is no right or wrong with option for an operation or for opting to not operate; it depends on high your vet rates their chances of success and your own feelings. Just make sure that you put your girl's welfare and quality of life before your own desire to keep her with you for as long as possible.

Please accept that news like yours always comes as a massive shock. Please give yourself time to think things through, and to think them through from the perspective of your girl, not just your own. Sleep over it and listen to your gut since you do not have to commit to an immediate emergency operation so you know where your heart is and that you are making the decision you can live with best for the long term. I have done it either way with various piggies of mine, and neither way is easier - they just come with different challenges and different sorts of pain.

Also be aware that your grieving process doesn't start with the moment of death but with the moment a beloved one has only got a limited time to live. This realisation the second worst time - apart from the actual loss itself - so the huge surge of strong and contradictory emotions you are currently experiencing is also down to this.

Please give yourself the time to think things through so you can make your decision - whichever it is - with a clearer mind if not with an easier heart. My thoughts are with you.

Tips For Post-operative Care
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

Thank you SO much Wiebke. Your reply really meant a lot to me.
Please do not worry, I did not expect to be told the exactly what to do. I do understand that it does not work that way.
But what you wrote really DID help me very much. Your insight and obvious experience somehow helped to calm me down a bit. (Even though, just as you pointed out, I really did start the grieving process already and my feelings are all over the place).

In my region, sadly, there are almost no vets that know a something about guinea pigs. I have had some bad experiences before with bad vet advice. And even thought this time I found one that specialized in small rodents, getting some additional insight from you helped me to accept and process it all.

And especially the knowledge that neither way is easier in the end, was something I think I desperately needed to hear.
I was trying so, so hard to find the "right" choice, event thought I knew deep down, that there is no such thing, because we can not see into the future. So in it's own way, it is a bit freeing to realize I am trying something impossible.
I am devastated at the prospect of losing her so soon, but what I am honestly more terrified is making her suffer. Especially needlessly. I am scared I will not notice the signs of her suffering quickly enough, but I will try my best. It is the only thing I can do. (I just need to keep reminding myself of that.)

I will take a few more days to think about it all, but for now I'm mostly decided to not do the surgery and just to try to make whatever time she has left as comfortable and happy as I can. And when I need a virtual hug from other people who do understand how great guinea pigs are, I'll come back here and ask for one.

Thank you - and also the others - for letting me lean on you in my panic and helping me through it.
I will be grieving and scared, a lot, but I will also be happy I still have her around. So far she is doing good - running around and going crazy for treats I am trying to enjoy it while I can and hoping she stays comfortable as long as possible.
She is getting lots of love and a moderate amount of cuddles (aka she gets lots of cuddles if and when she decides she would like some. She has a very big personality )

 

[midnightsqueaks]

Hello and welcome to the forum. This is the best place for advice and personal experiences.

I’m so sorry Eli is unwell. My Pepper was diagnosed with a probably tumour about a month ago. Sadly he passed away yesterday.

But my advice to you would be to enjoy the time you have with her. Lots of cuddles and kisses. Photos and memories. We can’t prolong their lives but we can cherish every day we have them. X

Thank you and I'm sorry about Pepper *hugs*. But I'm sure he had a wonderful life with you and now he is being all happy and healthy on the other side.
You are right, we can not prolong their life and I hope you are doing as ok as possible in such circumstances. *hugs*

 

[Merab]

When I have had a difficult decision to make about treatment of a piggy I usually make a decision and live with it for a few days. If it feels right then I go with it. If it feels wrong then I make a different decision.
It doesn’t make the pain less but does give a sense of inner peace.
Holding you and Eli in my heart

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you SO much Wiebke. Your reply really meant a lot to me.
Please do not worry, I did not expect to be told the exactly what to do. I do understand that it does not work that way.
But what you wrote really DID help me very much. Your insight and obvious experience somehow helped to calm me down a bit. (Even though, just as you pointed out, I really did start the grieving process already and my feelings are all over the place).

In my region, sadly, there are almost no vets that know a something about guinea pigs. I have had some bad experiences before with bad vet advice. And even thought this time I found one that specialized in small rodents, getting some additional insight from you helped me to accept and process it all.

And especially the knowledge that neither way is easier in the end, was something I think I desperately needed to hear.
I was trying so, so hard to find the "right" choice, event thought I knew deep down, that there is no such thing, because we can not see into the future. So in it's own way, it is a bit freeing to realize I am trying something impossible.
I am devastated at the prospect of losing her so soon, but what I am honestly more terrified is making her suffer. Especially needlessly. I am scared I will not notice the signs of her suffering quickly enough, but I will try my best. It is the only thing I can do. (I just need to keep reminding myself of that.)

I will take a few more days to think about it all, but for now I'm mostly decided to not do the surgery and just to try to make whatever time she has left as comfortable and happy as I can. And when I need a virtual hug from other people who do understand how great guinea pigs are, I'll come back here and ask for one.

Thank you - and also the others - for letting me lean on you in my panic and helping me through it.
I will be grieving and scared, a lot, but I will also be happy I still have her around. So far she is doing good - running around and going crazy for treats I am trying to enjoy it while I can and hoping she stays comfortable as long as possible.
She is getting lots of love and a moderate amount of cuddles (aka she gets lots of cuddles if and when she decides she would like some. She has a very big personality )

Hi

You may find these links here helpful when working out the details in terms of how to spot whether your piggy is dying, how you want to approach terminal care and how to spot when the end has come and avoid some common mistakes etc. The Dying guide has been the toughest for me to write as it reflects so many struggles and painful experiences of my own but I hope that you will find it helpful. I have tried to deal with all aspects playing into it and not just gloss over the tricky and really sticky parts. It doesn't make for easy reading but then this is not an easy time and what you mostly want is somebody talking you through it all so you can navigate the difficult time as best as possible.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

This guide here may also help you spot when she is no longer well in herself: Signs of Pain in Guinea Pigs

This one is for you; it also contains a chapter about grieving during terminal care: Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

Please remind yourself of one important aspect: Guinea pigs don't have a concept for an average lifetime; what they measure a good life by are happy todays in good care. As long as you give your guinea pigs those happy todays, you cannot fail them. It is never about a long life; it is all about a good life. You can never choose when and how the end comes but you can make every day you have a pet with you count. Believe me, love transcends time - you can pack a life time of love into just one moment. Try to take a leaf out of the guinea pig book and try to live in the moment.

I always turn the life clock back to zero when one of my piggies gets the bad news and see every day more as a special blessing, whether that is just a few days, weeks or months or - in the case of my Hywel 5 1/5 very happy years as the patriarch of a larger sow group after he had a very narrow escape from some unusual post-neutering operation complications. My Cerian had big crisis last August but has then hung in there - very frail - until the start of last month. You just never know so make the most of what shared time you have left. The special memories you create are going to stay with you and they will also give you strength during the grieving process since you know that you have done the best that you could and you can spare yourself the usual soul-searching that hits you at the start of the grieving process.
But terminal care is never all doom and gloom; there are still giggles and laughter to be had. Enrichment and sharing precious time can take many forms; it doesn't just have to be cuddles. Enrichment Ideas for Guinea Pigs

We are here for any questions and concerns along the way. You may want to bookmark this thread so we can keep everything together and refresh our memories without you needing to tell the whole story each time. Unlike social media, this forum doesn't rely on the number of new threads so we can concentrate better on providing personalised support (both practical and moral) for as long as needed.

Be kind with yourself and give yourself time to work things out. Respect your strong and sometimes very conflicting feelings and try not to bottle them down. Do so with the confidence that you will be able to walk the path to the end, whatever your challenges. You will always find that you can be strong for those you love - and the experience of this strength you may not have known you have will then carry you through other hard times.

BIG HUGS