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Unknown disease in piggie

Evelin

New Born Pup
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Will be a long one, but I'll be thankful to anyone, willing to dive and help us figure out what's going on. Accept any suggestions.

Hello, last year, in the beginning of december I adopted two guinea pigs Dobi (black shorthair) and Doti (brownish longhair). Each turning 3 years old this month. Each being regularly checked at the vet every two months and overall, except for a few minor things to pay attention to, healthy. The previous family gave us everything they've lived with, including three different kinds of food, cage, toys, food regime, so we know and do what they are used to.
First week in, and all is looking good, they've started getting used to us. (We live in a flat and the temp doesn't fall below 20~22°C.) My mom bought them some food, that's a little different (my personal main, suspect for where it all started). The food was from those that they sell in bulk and pour you in a plastic bag. I did some research beforehand and knew that corn and seeds (included in that food) are not good for them and decided not to give it to them, but they seemed to like it, so we gave them sometimes as a treat some pea flakes and other things from that food. Also, as i mentioned, they arrived with three different types of packed food, so i did mix of the three every time i fed them. (Later understood that they avoid one type, the second is new for them and actually i should have just given them the third one.-so this could also be a possible reason for what's to come.)
Saturday of second week, i see Dobi (black one) mostly staying in the house, not moving around the cage, don't see her drinking water or eating. Sunday, emergency to the vet. (The vet they've usually been taken to.) Figured she was bloated. Prescribed Baytril (i think it was 1ml a day), 9 days treatment including degan (0,1ml a day) and Vetregul (as a probiotic, 0,5ml a day). (Later the other vet was surprised it was this long treatment).
So, treatment finishes, she continues to lose weight, but is not bloated anymore. (I can't really remember now, but i think i did handfed her during those 9 days) She looked like she was eating and getting better, and i was thinking, let's give her some time, she went through a lot of stress and stuff and was not bloated anymore. (My biggest concern at that time was the flora inside her digestive system. Knew it was very sensitive and this long treatment worried me. Plus, i knew that probiotic during antibiotic treatment is bullshit, bcs next dose of antibiotic will kill anything that could do smth. (Am a molecular biology student 4-th year and studied cell and microbiology.))
Anyway, i have a planned trip for Christmas and am leaving the country between 22-nd and 5-th jan. (15 days) Thinking that she is looking better, i leave her at the hands of my mom and brother (we all live together, so no problem). Two days in, they tell me, they are taking her to the vet, is too weak, hasn't eaten or drank anything for 3 days. (Now, my mom tend to be a bit on the dramatic side) Anyway, throughout my whole absence, we hear each other every day and almost all the time, she tells me, she may die any moment, she is like a leaf (when they came she was ~1kg). The vet put her smth (saline), gave them more degan (0,1ml twice a day) and Fibreplex (1ml a day) told them to syringe feed her and they are trying. (Giving her around 12 grams, which is really little.) My mom is wondering if this is pointless, and we're just hurting her. (Bcs obviously, Dobi doesn't want to eat from syringe, and i am telling her everyday that, if she stop feeding her, she will die and this is the best we can do for her now. And i can't damn wait to go back and take stuff in my hands..)
Anyway, i'll try to be quicker with the story.
So, the vet also suggests, doing an X-ray, to see her teeth and digestive system. But they need to stabilize her first. And honestly my mom thinks he's not trying to save her and just want to rip us off.
So my mom decides to take her for a second opinion to another vet two days later. They did a full body check-up and tests, and everything is fine, also, no parasites. The other vet makes her a "cocktail" 2 syringes of 20 ml and injects her with it every day for around 10 days. This livens her up and things start looking good. I come back for the end of this cocktail treatment and take things over. Start syringe feed her water and around 4-5 times 30-40 grams of food a day. Also, forgot to mention. The piggies came with their multivitamin 9 drops every other day (will add a picture of it).

Been feeding her like this till recent days and she even gained some weight, but it's unstable with sudden drops:
20.01.23- 800gr
23.01.23- 784gr
27.01.23- 805gr
1-2.02.23- 757-9gr
3.02.23- 769gr
4.02.23- 759gr
5.02.23-748gr -(yesterday we took her to the vet so stress is also a factor here)
And now we're getting to the main point. Yesterday, they gave her another check-up and did X-ray. They didn't see anything suspicious. I'll attach them here. The thing that worries me now is what they prescribed: barium sulfate, 100ml for 3 days (33ml a day). They said they haven't tried it with guinea pigs, but it worked really well for other weird case with dog. And honestly we're out of options. Will accept any advice. Thanks in advance. 🐹🐹🐹
 

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I don’t really have much to offer as I’m not a health expert - one of those will be around shortly. I’m just commenting to query whether you are feeding hay or not? Hay is 90% of the diet, it seems like you’re feeding a lot of pellets which should only be given at 1 tablespoon a day
 
Hi and welcome

Please accept that this is a pet owners forum and not a medical forum. We can share our owner experiences but none of us is qualified to replace a vet. We specialise in supporting owners during an illness to help them care as best as possible for their ill piggies and be able to make the most of any vet visit.

How much pellets and how much hay are you feeding? It is the abrasive silica in the hay which keeps the grinding molars at the back of the mouth perfectly ground - the fast growth rate of guinea pig teeth has evolved against that, as has the digestive process to break down the tough but highly nutritious grass/hay fibre in two runs through the gut. Hay/grass should make at least three quarters of the daily food intake.

Vegetables and pellets together only replace the supplementary role of wild forage, which makes about 20-25% max in the daily food intake. Pellets should be only 1 tablespoon per piggy per day; they are full of empty fillers but contain surprisingly little fibre - and it is the hay fibre that is all important for guinea pig health.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Has your vet checked the mouth, and especially the premolars and molars at the back for signs of overgrowth due to too soft a diet? This can then impact on the food intake and also on the digestive system. See whether you can have a look at the four incisors in the mouth; they are self-sharpening against each other in a balanced dental system. If they have a crisp, even edge, then all is fine. If the edges are slanted or jagged, then it this points to towards uneven chewing and if the incisors are pointing inwards and are no longer meeting, then the back teeth are overgrown.
Unfortunately, we can otherwise not tell you what could be wrong; mystery weight loss/loss of appetite is one of the most common symptoms where far too many different problems can hide behind.
Has your vet considered a pain issue and tried to see whether a good dose of them would make a difference? That would open up new avenues. Loss of appetite, if it is not due to a problem with digestive system (which starts with the mouth), is very often caused by a pain issue of some sort.
How warm are your piggies kept? The cold winter can also impact on health and make things worse for frailer piggies.

Here is our very comprehensive support feeding guide with lots of practical tips, which you may find helpful:
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Signs of Pain in Guinea Pigs
 
Does anyone know what that large dark circle on the x ray is? Could that be more gas?
I think Barium sulphate is a contrast dye, used to identify any problem areas in the digestive system?
 
I don’t really have much to offer as I’m not a health expert - one of those will be around shortly. I’m just commenting to query whether you are feeding hay or not? Hay is 90% of the diet, it seems like you’re feeding a lot of pellets which should only be given at 1 tablespoon a day
There is hay in the cage, but should I syringe feed her hay ? Should i blend it ?
 
Hi and welcome

Please accept that this is a pet owners forum and not a medical forum. We can share our owner experiences but none of us is qualified to replace a vet. We specialise in supporting owners during an illness to help them care as best as possible for their ill piggies and be able to make the most of any vet visit.

How much pellets and how much hay are you feeding? It is the abrasive silica in the hay which keeps the grinding molars at the back of the mouth perfectly ground - the fast growth rate of guinea pig teeth has evolved against that, as has the digestive process to break down the tough but highly nutritious grass/hay fibre in two runs through the gut. Hay/grass should make at least three quarters of the daily food intake.

Vegetables and pellets together only replace the supplementary role of wild forage, which makes about 20-25% max in the daily food intake. Pellets should be only 1 tablespoon per piggy per day; they are full of empty fillers but contain surprisingly little fibre - and it is the hay fibre that is all important for guinea pig health.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Has your vet checked the mouth, and especially the premolars and molars at the back for signs of overgrowth due to too soft a diet? This can then impact on the food intake and also on the digestive system. See whether you can have a look at the four incisors in the mouth; they are self-sharpening against each other in a balanced dental system. If they have a crisp, even edge, then all is fine. If the edges are slanted or jagged, then it this points to towards uneven chewing and if the incisors are pointing inwards and are no longer meeting, then the back teeth are overgrown.
Unfortunately, we can otherwise not tell you what could be wrong; mystery weight loss/loss of appetite is one of the most common symptoms where far too many different problems can hide behind.
Has your vet considered a pain issue and tried to see whether a good dose of them would make a difference? That would open up new avenues. Loss of appetite, if it is not due to a problem with digestive system (which starts with the mouth), is very often caused by a pain issue of some sort.
How warm are your piggies kept? The cold winter can also impact on health and make things worse for frailer piggies.

Here is our very comprehensive support feeding guide with lots of practical tips, which you may find helpful:
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Signs of Pain in Guinea Pigs
Thank you for all your recommendations, so the piggies are in my room and the temperature doesn't fall below than 20°C. Is that ok ? Should i increase the degrees ?
Also, the concern currently is at digestive system, as they have checked several times those teeth and the bone below.
Your suggestion about the pain, i'll suggest it to the vet today, as i'm currently in the waiting room, thanks.
 
Does anyone know what that large dark circle on the x ray is? Could that be more gas?
I think Barium sulphate is a contrast dye, used to identify any problem areas in the digestive system?
Yes, you're right about barium sulphate, but they advised it for eventual possible help with irritation in the gut. The circle is her stomach (i guess) I don't know how big it usually should be, but the very dark dot inside it is what is worrying me, so I'm showing it to a different vet today.
 
Yes, you're right about barium sulphate, but they advised it for eventual possible help with irritation in the gut. The circle is her stomach (i guess) I don't know how big it usually should be, but the very dark dot inside it is what is worrying me, so I'm showing it to a different vet today.
Best of luck, I think it's always worth getting another opinion! I'd definitely push for some pain relief too x
 
When they get gas it typically starts in the caecum. This is the bit of the gut which makes the soft and fudgy caecotrophs which they eat when we are not looking. When my piggy got bloat she blew up like a barrel but when she deflated the last bit to go down was the caecum. I held her on my lap facing left and her right side (the side facing away from me) had what felt like a little soft balloon about half way down. I'm not a vet but when I saw that dark circle I thought it might be a gassy caecum. It is an unusual feature though, from what I have seen of piggy x-rays. It would be important to get that identified for certain as to what it is.

It's really hard to grind hay into a form they can eat but specialist food like the Critical Care is very high in fibre and they can digest just fine on this. I had a girl on this for about 6 weeks and she ate absolutely nothing else - her guts were still working properly although poops were sparse. I had to think about teeth after a while but as long as your piggy is eating something you should be able to judge how effective her chewing action is.

How is she in herself? Is she shedding any hair at all? Is she moody and assertive - or maybe just tired and a bit quiet?

(And if you have time can you tell us what degan and vetrugel is... I've not seen these here in the UK so I don't know what it is)

Good luck little girl - your loving owner is worried about you. We'll be thinking about you all x
 
It is an unusual feature though, from what I have seen of piggy x-rays. It would be important to get that identified for certain as to what it is.
I'm quoting myself here because I realised that most of the pig x-rays I've seen have been from the side and I remembered I had one of my boy from the top and guess what - there's the same big dark circle so whatever it is George has one too! You'll also see that George had a large bladder stone - this was the pre-op x-ray that he had done in January. He's recovered and is doing OK so don't be alarmed when you see it!
George Stone pre-op 2.jpg See the dark circle? Maybe it is the stomach after all. I think George's x-ray is looking down from the top (?)
 
Hey all, thank you for your recommendations, went to the other vet, did a side x-ray and saw very overgrown teeth. They trimmed them, then a day later she made an abscess, underwent an operation to cut it open and get the pus out, did a microbiology test on it and found resistant streptococci (aka baytril was not working), changed medication to biseptol (combo of sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim), which I am still currently giving (now for like a half month - to make sure we kill those all steptococci). Also nonstop giving her fibreplex (probiotic) and a cat😆 liver booster (bcs of the streptococci her liver indicators were on borderline high). Had to keep the abscess open for a week and rinse it with some solution. She was loosing weight (got to an all time low 686) but suddenly decided she want to drink water and then eat eat some hay, then we stopped the pain relievers to see if she's in pain and nope, she started eating even more. Now i don't syringe feed her anymore (just prebiotic and antibiotic for the next few days left) and she is steadily increasing weight - today was 743grams. Started being the most vocal guinea pig i've ever heard 🤣🤣 squeaking every time and running to me when I enter the room. I love her.
If your guinea pig (or any kind of living creature) is having some trouble, don't give up on them, believe in them and support them. It's always darkest before the dawn. Have a lovely day.
 
I am pleased to hear she is doing so well. It's all down to your love and care, she's a lucky piggy to have you.
 
Hey all, thank you for your recommendations, went to the other vet, did a side x-ray and saw very overgrown teeth. They trimmed them, then a day later she made an abscess, underwent an operation to cut it open and get the pus out, did a microbiology test on it and found resistant streptococci (aka baytril was not working), changed medication to biseptol (combo of sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim), which I am still currently giving (now for like a half month - to make sure we kill those all steptococci). Also nonstop giving her fibreplex (probiotic) and a cat😆 liver booster (bcs of the streptococci her liver indicators were on borderline high). Had to keep the abscess open for a week and rinse it with some solution. She was loosing weight (got to an all time low 686) but suddenly decided she want to drink water and then eat eat some hay, then we stopped the pain relievers to see if she's in pain and nope, she started eating even more. Now i don't syringe feed her anymore (just prebiotic and antibiotic for the next few days left) and she is steadily increasing weight - today was 743grams. Started being the most vocal guinea pig i've ever heard 🤣🤣 squeaking every time and running to me when I enter the room. I love her.
If your guinea pig (or any kind of living creature) is having some trouble, don't give up on them, believe in them and support them. It's always darkest before the dawn. Have a lovely day.

That is great news!

Hang on in there with the antibiotics. Abscesses can sometimes require two or more courses to make sure that any little bit of infection has gone because otherwise the abscess will eventually come back worse than ever.
 
It sounds like you identified her problem! Could any abscess been seen on her tooth x-ray? (I don't know if these things show up)
If that abscess appeared literally overnight after her operation it might be that it was there already. Small but painful and stopping her eating properly, and that this led to her teeth overgrowing. It was lucky it appeared so fast after the op anyway - then you could see what you had to deal with! I hope she continues to thrive - she is certainly getting wonderful care. Well done, and thank you for all your encouraging words ❤️
 
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