Undersow questions

[flips]

As many of you know, I have 3 sows, Flumpet, Delilah and Minx. Flumpet and Delilah have always lived together and Minx was introduced a few months later.
Delilah is the top sow and then Flumps, with Minx being the undersow. They did all the rumbling/ chasing stuff when they were introduced and have the odd flare ups (the odd scuffle and chase) which I expected.
Minx is definitely a bit of a third wheel at times. None of my girls are snuggly and they all like their own space. I had to take a tube out the other night because Minx had gone inside and I realised the older girls were sitting one each end until Minx barged her way out screaming. I didn't see what the fuss was about until the the fourth bout of screaming.
I put all three of them in the washing basket this morning whilst I cleaned their cage and suddenly Minx was crying. I separated them as I wondered if there wasn't enough space.
They are absolutely fine back in the cage this afternoon and pottering about quite happily. There are no issues about sharing food and they all find their own space to curl up in the beds.
I wouldn't say that Minx is unhappy and her weight and health are good. She's confident and inquisitive, and is often braver than the older girls.

I'm not really sure what my question is. Is this just normal undersow behaviour? I've had a read up in the reference section and there's not really anything that I'm overly worried about. I just want to make sure that I'm doing the right things for all of my girls. If (and if it's a very big 'if') I were to consider getting a fourth pig would it benefit Minx in that she might have her own friend, or is that likely to lead to a 'three against one' situation?
I guess I'm wondering whether I'm projecting human feelings into the situation rather than just accepting piggy behaviour? :{

Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks.

 

[skrikopanik]

I understand your feelings! It's really hard to see them be nasty to eachother! Underpigs don't really mind their position as a human would, I've been told. At least it sounds like Minx is healthy and happy. She's younger than Flumpet and Delila too, isn't she?

A fourth pig could change dynamics, but you'll never know how... A neutered boar may be just what they need, but then some boars (like Bo...) will walk over to the side and allow the ladies to knuckelrub the youngster...

The rescue mine come from offer "piggy family therapy" where she intruduce them to her big heard. In the unfamiliar surroundings pigs often find comfort in old friends and bond closer. I don't think you need to worry at the moment though...

Your pigs are used to a lot of space, maybe that's why they started fighting in the laundry basket? I know that when I blogged about mine showing them in a basket that I used to cart them to their outside run lots of people commented that their pigs would never agree to such close quarters!

 

[skrikopanik]

It also depends A LOT on "what time of the month" it is... Tonight mine seem pretty crabby and Kid is usually the one to get told off because she hasn't yet learned to back off a crabby sow full of hormones

 

[Wiebke]

Top sows can be rather b*tchy at times... Nia and Nerys can be pretty grumpy when they come into season. A certain amount of "bullying" is normal.

Screeching is more often the reaction of an underpiggy to being nipped (not necessarily painfully). It is also meant as a protest. Hafina is doing her fair share, being the new bottom piggy - and she is not unhappy at all.

Introducing a third piggy to a well bonded couple is always a bit of a problem as the old ties won't just dissolve. If you have got the space (2x6 ft = 60x180cm or the equivalent thereof) and the means, you may think of either adding another young girl or a neutered boar in the longer term. If you are considering the boar route, it might be useful trying to see whether your top girls will be accepting of one before you go the whole length!

Claire W had good success with adding a second young girl. The two original older ones and the two youngsters tend to hang out together a bit a more.

 

[flips]

She's younger than Flumpet and Delila too, isn't she?

A fourth pig could change dynamics, but you'll never know how... A neutered boar may be just what they need, but then some boars (like Bo...) will walk over to the side and allow the ladies to knuckelrub the youngster...

Yes, Minx is about 14 weeks younger than Flumpet and Delilah.

I keep thinking about a neutered boar but am trying to be sensible as finances are limited. Although if I were to come across a neutered Rex... rolleyes :x

It also depends A LOT on "what time of the month" it is... Tonight mine seem pretty crabby and Kid is usually the one to get told off because she hasn't yet learned to back off a crabby sow full of hormones

Hormones are horrendous here! They all seem be in season one after the other and we end up with a week long girl on girl mounting session with the 'top' girl changing every couple of days. :{ There's lots of whimpering and chasing and sometimes I turn the lights off in the hope they'll just have a rest.

 

[Wiebke]

Yes, Minx is about 14 weeks younger than Flumpet and Delilah.

I keep thinking about a neutered boar but am trying to be sensible as finances are limited. Although if I were to come across a neutered Rex... rolleyes :x






Hormones are horrendous here! They all seem be in season one after the other and we end up with a week long girl on girl mounting session with the 'top' girl changing every couple of days. :{ There's lots of whimpering and chasing and sometimes I turn the lights off in the hope they'll just have a rest.

Female hormones are worst at the same times as the boys'; they are only not mentioned so much because they do not lead to fall outs, but they can be PRETTY dramatic and exhausting! rolleyes

 

[flips]

Screeching is more often the reaction of an underpiggy to being nipped (not necessarily painfully). It is also meant as a protest. Hafina is doing her fair share, being the new bottom piggy - and she is not unhappy at all.

If you have got the space (2x6 ft = 60x180cm or the equivalent thereof) and the means, you may think of either adding another young girl or a neutered boar in the longer term. If you are considering the boar route, it might be useful trying to see whether your top girls will be accepting of one before you go the whole length!

Claire W had good success with adding a second young girl. The two original older ones and the two youngsters tend to hang out together a bit a more.

I think Minx starts screaming as soon as she thinks she might get nipped, which is fair enough... she's always been a bit of a drama queen.
I've got a 3 x 4 c & c with a 1 x 3 hayloft so I have space. I've also just set up the living room for a bit of free ranging, although the girls aren't sure they like it yet (early days though). If I do look at getting a fourth piggy I would let them choose a friend at rescue. I'm not certain at all that Flumpet or Delilah would accept a boar- Dee is such a matriarch and Flumpet is such a stubborn rugger.

 

[Wiebke]

I think Minx starts screaming as soon as she thinks she might get nipped, which is fair enough... she's always been a bit of a drama queen.
I've got a 3 x 4 c & c with a 1 x 3 hayloft so I have space. I've also just set up the living room for a bit of free ranging, although the girls aren't sure they like it yet (early days though). If I do look at getting a fourth piggy I would let them choose a friend at rescue. I'm not certain at all that Flumpet or Delilah would accept a boar- Dee is such a matriarch and Flumpet is such a stubborn rugger.

If you are not sure, you can always go for a young female that will simply slot in at the bottom - which will keep the hierarchy as it is and provide the least upsets and biggest chance of acceptance. I was lucky enough to start my tribe with a dominant boar already in existence; it is not so easy to introduce one later on if you have very dominant girls. The advantage of a boar is that he diverts a lot of the "seasonal" grumpiness.

If you can find a rescue within your reach that is prepared to "road test" a neutered boar, that might be worth a try. Otherwise, I would recommend going for a little girl. You will still get the screeching, though - it is underpiggy behaviour and can be quite an effective weapon if used preventively! rolleyes

 

[Little Piggles]

I understand exactly what you're saying - your three sound just my girls!They are not a snuggly trio at all, very rarely share a sleeping space and never groom one another.

Pippa is in charge, although very relaxed about it, with Willow second in command and then Pixel (who is about 9 months or so younger)

I too was worried that Pixel was being picked on (especially by Willow) as she screamed her head off too, especially if she was in a hidey or box which Willow wanted to get in. They all shared food happily though and Pixel often stole food from the elder two. She seemed happy and did still occasionally popcorn. She is inquisitve (especially if you have something green in your hand rolleyes )

She was, though, one of the reasons I added Boris. He hasn't changed the dynamics of the girls, but they do all seem happy together (after a bit of a false start!) All four are now happy to share the bottom half of the hutch. They are still getting used to each other, but so far, they all seem pretty harmonoius. Especially as Boris is currently tryung to share his 'affection' with all of the girls rolleyes

 

[flips]

Just found Minx and Flumpet sharing a cosy. That makes me happy. |)

 

[skrikopanik]

Awww, cute! I think they are fine...

 

[Wiebke]

So cute!