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Uncertain respiratory illness, the end or should I try?

Olivitree

Olivitree

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hello there,
My 6 year old piggy Coco is currently in with the vets, she started breathing a little heavy, I thought discomfort from cystic ovaries so booked her in to have those sorted out (we were sorting out a tooth abscess first, we did know about them earlier but dealt with the more immediately risky problem) It got worse so I booked her in urgently, got her in as an emergency last night.
They couldn't hear any heart problems and the issue developed over the course of a about a week or so.
Currently she's not really responding to treatment (I believe they're trying to clear any fluid off the lungs, she's on antibiotics, injected I believe, in an oxygen box + heat). The vet called me this morning so about 7 hours after we dropped her in saying she's not responding to the drugs.

Is that enough time for her to respond to treatments? Should I consider bringing her home to continue treatment or is this the end?

It wasn't my usual guinea pig vet so I'm always a bit hesitant to take them at face value as I've always found them very quick to turn to PTS.
What do folks think? She wasn't flat out nearly unconscious, she would still move and respond to things, but she had to make the choice between eating and breathing so she's not good.
She got from eating happily, moving around and demanding food to completely not eating in about the course of 12 hours.
Would lung tumours be this fast, this was something they suggested?
Or is this likely to be a respiratory infection given it worsened that fast?
They don't believe its heart related.

Be as harsh as necessary, I'm just kind of stuck right now, I hate having to think about these decisions when I can't even see my guinea pig to access how unwell she is.
If this is the end its the end but I'm happy to work hard and throw cash at this piggy.
Ok she is 6 years old, but, she was doing really well, putting on weight etc eating like a champ after about a month of antibiotics for her tooth (zithromax), her tooth was still aligned last we knew, this just came out of the blue.
They're hanging on to her until this evening I think then I may have to make some decisions.
 
Hi

Pneumonia can blow up out of the blue in a matter of hours and can kill; especially when it is cause by one of the nastier bugs but we also see heavier breathing with acute heart failure. Unfortunately, we cannot tell you what is going on.
As the owner or in lieu of the owner (preferably with a signed piece of paper that entitles you to make any decisions, including end of life decisions, for a piggy not of your own if the owner cannot be reached), the full burden of what to do is unfortunately on your own shoulders; you are in the grey area for potential end of life decisions where there is no right or wrong - it just has to feel as right for you as can be under the circumstances. We cannot take that burden off your shoulders, even if we fully appreciate how stressful this is for you. :(

7 hours is a rather short period to expect any improvement so if you feel strongly that you would like to give her more time then you are fully within your rights, as you are if you'd rather bring her home into more familiar surroundings.

There is unfortunately no guarantee that it will work out. Is she getting breathing support or she just being medicated and syringe fed?

You may find this link here helpful: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
 
Thank you @Wiebke
I suppose I'm looking for some confirmation on whether or not this too quick for deciding if the meds are working more than anything, I'm hesitant about a lot of the vets, there's two that I trust the rest seem very quick to deem it game over. Just feels way too soon for medication to have had an affect to me but I'm no expert.
To my knowledge she's:
In a higher oxygen environment, I'm not sure how they're providing that.
Being kept warm.
Syringe fed critical care
On antibiotics, anti lung fluid and pain killers.
I think they were fairly confident its not heart failure as her heart sounds fine, they're between tumours on the lungs (but I would have thought that would have shown up more gradually?) or infection/pneumonia but don't seem certain.
Is there a chance of recovering from particularly bad pneumonia or is she just not going to be comfortable through trying to fix something that's not fixable?
I understand info you can give is limited, I suppose I'm hoping for more experience on time frames and success rates.
Obviously if its tumours, its the end, and I accept that, I just don't have much experience with pneumonia, somewhat more minor respiratory illness yes, thats largely been successful in treatment but this feels a bit more serious.
 
Olivitree said:
Thank you @Wiebke
I suppose I'm looking for some confirmation on whether or not this too quick for deciding if the meds are working more than anything, I'm hesitant about a lot of the vets, there's two that I trust the rest seem very quick to deem it game over. Just feels way too soon for medication to have had an affect to me but I'm no expert.
To my knowledge she's:
In a higher oxygen environment, I'm not sure how they're providing that.
Being kept warm.
Syringe fed critical care
On antibiotics, anti lung fluid and pain killers.
I think they were fairly confident its not heart failure as her heart sounds fine, they're between tumours on the lungs (but I would have thought that would have shown up more gradually?) or infection/pneumonia but don't seem certain.
Is there a chance of recovering from particularly bad pneumonia or is she just not going to be comfortable through trying to fix something that's not fixable?
I understand info you can give is limited, I suppose I'm hoping for more experience on time frames and success rates.
Obviously if its tumours, its the end, and I accept that, I just don't have much experience with pneumonia, somewhat more minor respiratory illness yes, thats largely been successful in treatment but this feels a bit more serious.
Click to expand...

From what I can see, she is getting everything that can be done for her under the circumstances, including a diuretic. She will be in a closed care box with a special oxygen feed. You are now at the stage of waiting and praying.
Unless the decision is taken out of your hands by your girl passing away on her own or making a miraculous quick recovery, then it is fully up to you as to how far you want her to take. But you are fully within your rights to wait longer before calling it shots if there is no immediate improvement.

Unfortunately, we cannot give you the answer you are craving and take your owner's burden off you; nor can a vet do more than give any recommendations. It is always hardest when a situation is not clear cut and you are facing executive decisions based on insufficient data. :(
 
Hi. Do you know what antibiotics she is on? From my experience over the years zithromicine is the most effective against pneumonia and have had pigs respond extremely well to it. Not all vets are familiar with it as it is not licensed for guinea pigs but might be worth discussing with your vet.
Have any xrsys been taken? They can show how much of the lungs contain air vs fluid. I have had a pig with only 10% of her lungs containing air respond to zithromax (plus diuretics and oxygen) and make a full recovery, against the odds. I also once had a piggy with laboured breathing who when xrayed was shown very clearly to have a large lung tumor. Her breathing had appeared normal until the day it was bad and I hadn't noticed any gradual change.
 
Can’t help but wanted to offer you support and a hug at this stressful time. PS - I’d give her a little bit longer on treatment. 🤞
 
Pound Shilling & Pig said:
Hi. Do you know what antibiotics she is on? From my experience over the years zithromicine is the most effective against pneumonia and have had pigs respond extremely well to it. Not all vets are familiar with it as it is not licensed for guinea pigs but might be worth discussing with your vet.
Have any xrsys been taken? They can show how much of the lungs contain air vs fluid. I have had a pig with only 10% of her lungs containing air respond to zithromax (plus diuretics and oxygen) and make a full recovery, against the odds. I also once had a piggy with laboured breathing who when xrayed was shown very clearly to have a large lung tumor. Her breathing had appeared normal until the day it was bad and I hadn't noticed any gradual change.
Click to expand...
Hello there, No idea on the antibiotics I will check in the morning and perhaps see if I can suggest a swap if this one isn't shifting it.
Thank you for sharing your experience, bit sad that a tumour can sneak up as well but we'll see how things go, currently I'm intending to tackle it like it's pneumonia unless I get more information.
no Xray, they haven't offered one I guess they're thinking it's not worth it at this point, I'm surprised they haven't suggested it, unless it would need her to be put under anaesthetic I guess I don't think she'd come back from that at this stage, I really need to get my favourite vet on the case but I don't think he's in, I may ask tomorrow about xrays when they call me with the morning update.

To update on her progress,
Coco hasn't shown any improvement yet, the vet I spoke to today was a lot less doomy, he was realistic, but said he was happy to continue to try at this point, not feeling that it would be unfair to do so and did explain that he would expect pneumonia to take a long time to show actual improvement but that piggies can still recover from it. I'm not getting my hopes too high as it could still be tumours and she may just not be strong enough to recover even if it is something treatable, but it gives me a little bit of direction to try for.
She's spending another night with them, another £100 didn't seem so bad on top of the £300 so far! (emergency hours fees are a little painful, guh, but she's worth it)
He's not keen to have her depending on oxygen for longer than 24 hours really, feeling that would probably mean that if she was entirely dependant on it, we've got little hope, which I think is fair to say.
So, tomorrow I may have her home if she's not looking worse, if not looking better. Otherwise if she's worsened then I'll make the call then.
Feeling pretty heartbroken as I was planning for future comforts for her, I wasn't expecting this sudden down turn at al despite her age she seemed to be doing so well.
Thank you for all your help and supportive words folks. Got everything crossed for my sassy lil old lady but trying to be realistic.
 
Well it’s bad news, I left her in another night and they tried taking her off the oxygen but she just got worse and we haven’t seen improvement, tried a conscious X-ray, couldn’t see anything but couldn’t get an accurate look either.

All the vets seem to be in agreement that it’s not fair to go on and I guess I have to go with their best judgement as I can’t access her myself, although she was eating last night apparently. Hoping to see her first but this’ll be the last time I suppose. Absolutely heartbroken.
 
I’m so sorry the news isn’t better. You have tried all you can. Sometimes the call to the bridge is just too strong. Take care ❤️
 
I’m sorry it’s not what you wanted. You have done everything for her though, please take comfort in that. ❤️
 
I am so sorry to read this news.
You gave her the best possible care.
Be gentle with yourself as you grieve.
 
I am so sorry to hear this. You have done everything possible for your beautiful girl. I hope you are able to visit and be with her one last time xx
 
I'm so sorry for your news. It sounds like in many ways her body has made the decision for you. We'll be thinking about you all x
 
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