trying to bond my 4 sows - any advice?

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moonpig

moonpig

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Hi

I have 2 pairs of sows and I have bought I huge hutch and would like for them all to live together. I have put them in indoor runs right next to each other over the past few days and there is lots of teeth chattering. I have given them all a bath today and the towels they are on when they come inside have all been washed so they don't smell of anything. Should I go for it and try them all together? I think I am being a big wimp I just don't want any of them getting injured - is the teeth chattering thing normal or when I put them together are they going to try and kill each other? When should I intervene and when should I just let them get on with it?

Sorry lots of questions!
 
Teeth chattering is quite normal.

You need to make sure you do it in a neutral spot - not the hutch as they can run into bedroom part then start to fight and you can't get to them.

Make sure they have lots of neutral space, lots of food distractions, no houses that have only one way in so tunnels are okay but igloos aren't. They can follow each other into an igloo and one could trap the other.

I use boxes and I cut 2 doors so there's an entrance and an exit.

You need to stick around for ages to make sure that it goes okay and only seperate if they really fight, they will probably rumble and teeth chatter but have a towel ready to throw over them if they start to fight. Make a BIG noise if they do that too and they usually run for their lives and forget the fighting.

Good luck and I hope it works out as a big herd is a joy! They get so very relaxed when there are loads of them. I would love to bond my fosters to the other herd but they wont have any of it. :(

Let us know how it goes!
 
With two pairs you will have two boss pigs, that might cause a problem as they will both want to protect their friend and probably be boss over the other two aswell. I successfully bonded a single dominant pig with a pair but as niether Lexi or Kizzy were very dominant in their pair they both backed down eventually and let Charlotte take control. Charlotte and Kizzy did have a scrap but once they had been cuddled and calmed down we reintroduced them and they were ok.

Hopefully this page will be useful http://www.cavyspirit.com/sociallife.htm at the bottom there are all the different behaviours and what they mean.
 
I introduced 2 bonded pairs and honestly, it was one of the most nerve wrecking 2 hours of my life! When I first took my bonded pair to the rescue to get another pair for them Heidi went absolutely mental and tried to kill everything in sight!

But I did it very slowly with the new pair (as you are) and it's worked out great :).

I put them in a divided cage for a week to get used to the smells then gave them all a bath together. It was while we were drying them the chattering started, there were a few hisses and puffs through the nose but as soon as any of that malarky started we clapped our hands or threw a towel over them as a distraction. I read on the Peter Gurney website that a good distraction is having a spray bottle on hand whenever it looks as though there may be serious trouble. A quick squirt settles them quickly as they're more interested in getting their faces dry than fighting.

It's terrifying but soooooo worth all the the frayed nerves, they're so funny and cute when they're all together! ^)

Good luck, I know how scary it is! Keep us updated :)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
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Make sure it's on neutral territory with lots of space and nothing a piggy can be backed into and trapped. Have some big plates of food, so no piggy can be crowded out.

And take lots of time; there might be some scuffles and a lot of threatening at first, but hopefully no bloody fights. There is a difference in intensity between a serious attack and a scuffle. I've had one bigger and several small "handbags" incidents between Nia and Taffy, who were the two top piggies but have settled down now - mostly. It can take a few weeks, though!

In the hutch, make sure that there is alternative accommodation for the piggies that have been "locked out" and also different dishes.
 
Thanks for all your advice guys :)

I am definately going to take it slowly - I hav adapted the indoor runs to make them a bit sturdier and so that I can attach a water bottle to each one and I am going to leave them side by side for a couple of days to get used to eachother - I did this last night and I am seen some improvement by this evening - less teeth chattering - they are still doing it but more much shorter periods and are spending more time sniffing eachother through the bars

Will keep you posted how I get on - who would have thought cute little piggies could cause this much stress! ?/?/?/
 
Cute little piggies have an amazingly complicated social life. They operate on "us" or "not us", and you have to get past that. I had Taffy and Tegan next to the others in the kitchen for a day when my hubby was away and I could do it. It helped!

You are right in taking your time.
 
update on trying to bond my 4 sows

Well after having my 2 pairs side by side for a week, the teeth chattering seemed to stop so I decided to put them all together. I did it on neutral territory and with a nice new fleece so no piggy smells, at first when there was lots of food they all seemed ok and I thought theings were going well, but then after about 30 mns things took a turn for the worse. my 2 boss pigs from each pair kept flying at each other. They jumped in mid air and went for eachother in the air! I tried making noises, I tried a water spray, I had boxes that they could get in and out of, but they just really went for eachother, then they ran into the box and had a big fight.

I had to separate them back into their pairs and thats how it has stayed since. Do you think I have 2 very dominant girls that just won't accept not being top big anymore. Do you thing bonding them is a no go?

My other thought is that I have seen people talking about a herd with a neutered male (weibke if i remember rightly you have this don't you) Would adding a neutered boar help at all as would he automatically become top pig? or could I run the risk of him not getting on with the girls and then having a lone boar? :{

Sorry for the essay! any advice will be gratefully received! :)
 
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I just put my 2 pairs together too. At first, the big girls picked a lot on the smaller ones. Lot's of teeth chattering, rumbling bums and God knows what.. But now after a week together or so, they have so much fun together!
I guess me and hubby just let it ride out. We were there, sprayed water and clapped when they started, but after a while we realized we couldnt be there 24/7 so I just let them be. Instead I checked all of my girls 2 times a day to see if any blood was drawn, wich there wasnt so I figured they were good.

Might not have been the right or even a good way but now they are playing and popcorning together.
 
I am sorry that it didn't work out. If your top girls are going after each other like that, I would frankly keep them separate.
A neutered boy won't interfere with the hierarchy; he can just smoothe things out - if he is accepted, and I wouldn't bank on that in this case! You have obviously two VERY dominant and determined ladies.

The only other option is to let them fight it out as long as there isn't any blood. But that will take nerves of stainless steel!

My two top ladies Nia and Taffy had only one or two incidents of handbagging, but there are still the occasional stand-offs with a little bit of chattering from Nia and a refusal to submit completely from Taffy.
 
I'm introducing four boys right now. If you want and have MSN I can video-call it to you so you can see when I intervene and when I don't and explain why.

I'm also recording most of their behaviour so I can make notes on what is what and why some things aren't serious. So, if you want, I can show you it once I'm done.

My MSN is : larka_dragon (at) hotmail dot com

Let me know who you are and I'll show you what's happening here.

Or you could have a read at this : http://www.cavyspirit.com/sociallife.htm#Introductions

Introductions are harder on a loving owner who wants rainbows and roses for their pigs than the pigs themselves. They understand what's going on and they're communicating on a level we can't understand and they're fine and will be happy once it's all over and done with. Do NOT separate or "rescue" a pig during introductions - they need to sort it out on their own.
 
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Also: when introduing and waiting for pigs to settle together it's a great idea to have no boxes that will let a pig be cornered.

I said I have four boars just now being introduced; in the introduction room (my living room) I have no hidey holes: just a huge lump of hay in the middle of the room and lots of veggies spread everywhere.

In their cage - because boars can be territorial and it may help with your girls for now at least - there are also no toys with enclosed spaces, but I do drape towels over corners to give them somewhere safe to be.

Unless blood was drawn, there's no need to separate them while they're sorting out their hierarchy.
 
teadragon said:
Also: when introduing and waiting for pigs to settle together it's a great idea to have no boxes that will let a pig be cornered.

I said I have four boars just now being introduced; in the introduction room (my living room) I have no hidey holes: just a huge lump of hay in the middle of the room and lots of veggies spread everywhere.

In their cage - because boars can be territorial and it may help with your girls for now at least - there are also no toys with enclosed spaces, but I do drape towels over corners to give them somewhere safe to be.

Unless blood was drawn, there's no need to separate them while they're sorting out their hierarchy.
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Thanks for all your advice - they didn't draw blood so maybe I will give it a nother go, but they really did go at eachother!

With the boxes, I made sure there was a hole in either end so they couldn't get trapped in the box, but they still had a fight in there
 
Just want to say a big thank you to Emma (teadragon) who kindly set up her webcam so that I could see her bonding her new guinea pig with her existing 3. It was really useful for me to see what was happening so I can see which behaviour is normal when bonding and which is not. After seeing how happy and laid back all ehr piggies were withe the indroduction, I will be having a very stern word with my girls and will try them together one last time before i give up all together!
 
I know you mentioned that you were going to do it shortly after the web cam was turned off but if you're having problems with keeping yourself from interfearing I found it often helped if I had a printed list of all the behaviours which are OK beside me so I could read them and breathe.

That... and I eat while introducing so I have no other option but to be calm or cover myself in mango ;)

I hope everything went well.
 
teadragon said:
I know you mentioned that you were going to do it shortly after the web cam was turned off but if you're having problems with keeping yourself from interfearing I found it often helped if I had a printed list of all the behaviours which are OK beside me so I could read them and breathe.

That... and I eat while introducing so I have no other option but to be calm or cover myself in mango ;)

I hope everything went well.
Click to expand...

Good idea thanks for that. I got a bit side tracked at the weekend so didn't manage to do it then. I will be trying them together this weekend so will let you know
 
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