Trouble Introducing Our 2 Sows. Any Ideas?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cavycapers

New Born Pup
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
5
Reaction score
3
Points
40
Location
St Louis, MO. USA
We adopted our Guinea pigs recently - Annabelle, six weeks ago, and Brownie, 4 weeks ago. We kept them quarantined for 2 weeks before introducing them. We introduced them in a neutral zone and we thought the introduction had gone well. Brownie was clearly dominant and Annabelle was clearly submissive. They slept in the same cage together the first night without incident. The next day, perhaps this was my mistake, I put them in the neutral zone for some free range time. (Although we have a C&C cage 2x 5 grid.) They got along fine, ate out of the same bowl, shared veggie bowls - I got several pictures of them interacting quite peacefully. THEN, when it was time to go back in the cage - rumblestrutting, teeth chattering, etc. I put them back in the neutral zone where they seemed to get along. An hour later I tried again to get them back in the cage, with no luck.

I kept them in the neutral zone the rest of the day until someone else was home to help me with them. We put them in the cage and tried not to interfere, but the teeth chattering, rumble strutting didn't stop and eventually Annabelle & Brownie had an all out brawl. We got them separated, but both piggies were injured - Annabelle needed stitches, and both needed antibiotics.

It's been about 2 weeks since that incident, and since that time, they've been in separate cages right next to each other. We think that perhaps Annabelle, although at first submissive, became territorial because I hadn't gotten the cage cleaned properly with a vinegar solution. We tried to re-introduce them today - in a different neutral zone. Again Annabelle was clearly submissive and Brownie was clearly dominant. (Annabelle acted more fearful than submissive, perhaps.). Anyway, we kept them in the neutral zone for several hours. They seemed to have worked things out - a lot of butt sniffing & chasing, a nip now & then. They took a couple of naps, albeit on opposite sides of the neutral zone, and it appeared Annabelle had accepted the hierarchy.

This time I washed everything in Annabelle's cage with vinegar solution. I washed the cage and choroplast with vinegar solution. I put a different blanket down for the floor, different food dishes,etc. We didn't put any hidey's in at all. When we put them in the cage, they were a little more aggressive with teeth chattering, but we held towels between them until they settled down. And in fact they did. They even laid down in opposite corners to take a nap. At some point Brownie got up and nudged Annabelle out of her spot. That's when the non stop teeth chattering started all over again.

Since they'd had a brawl with injuries before, we didn't want to take a chance this would escalate. We put them back in the neutral zone and they were ok for a short while, but then they seemed to go into attack mode again - teeth chattering, rumble strutting, facing each other. So we put them in separate cages again before a brawl could break out.

Is it worth trying to reintroduce them in the neutral zone again? If so, should we do it right away or should we wait a week or two? If neither of them use the "mutual" cage in the interim, do I need to wash it all down again, since it has both their scents in it? If we re-introduce, do we need to do it in a different neutral zone, since they've already been aggressive in the one we prepared today? We're going to try to reconfigure the "mutual" cage or possibly move it to a different location so Annabelle, won't get territorial. Do you think this will work?

They don't seem to hate each other. They are both "nervous nellies" and Annabelle generally seems to accept Brownie as the boss until something makes her feel territorial. Any ideas?
 
Oh gosh. This sounds a bit like my lash introduction between my neutered boy Presley and Biscuit. Considering she's fear aggressive ( was bullied in past by other piggie) all was looking well after considerably long bonding in neutral
zone. Yes, looked like the girl was to be the dominant one and boy was accepting it then they had a breakthrough on Saturday evening. Loads of mad popcorning and zooming together. I took it as a good sign and put them in their disinfected cage. It was cleaned, it was disinfected, the lay out inside was changed. She just kicked off at him there for some reason. I moved one of the mini hay pools downstairs and buy jumped in. Considering there is another one upstairs she got insanely jealous and territorial and tried to attack him. Admittedly there were no massive deep cuts, just couple of scratches ( lucky sow-boar fights will never be as drastic as boar-boar ones) but it wasn't pleasant to watch and it was extremely confusing. I consulted with more experienced owners and concluded we moved them to the cage too soon. We tried rebonding them on neutral ground but failed.
She clearly is a clever cog and recognised the space they were in before ( as in disinfected play pen set up on the same kitchen floor with new blankets and new bits inside)... Anyways... Wasn't meant to be. We ended up splitting the cage the new couple was meant to be in into two 2X3 grids and they loved next door for couple of months X
We are now in process of bonding the two singletons with two new piggies. I left it to an experienced rescue this time, as bonding your own pigs is always nerve wrecking and I didn't want to be biased so I can't make wrong decision again.
I think you may have something similar here I'm afraid :( although probably more serious if there were wounds so deep they needed stitches. I wouldnt attempt re-bonding these two anymore :(
Ill copy @Wiebke and @pig in the city as they have heaps of experience with bonding
X
Keep us posted x
 
I have plenty of experience of bonding sows and I'm afraid that once sows have decided they can't tolerate each other then that is it. As there has been a fight where stitches were needed and a subsequent bust up my view is that there will never be acceptance of each other. I really wouldn't try again as it's the law of diminishing returns.

Are you able to keep them separately but next to each other (eg in large c and c divided between them) or alternatively can you look at bonding each of them with another piggy so that you have 2 pairs?

Please add your location to your profile as it will help us give you location specific recommendations. There may be a rescue near you who will try bonding your sows with other sows in rescue so that they each find the right partner.
 
The only time l have been involved with a similar experience the two 'sows' were in fact boars! Did they come from a reputable source? Are they definitely sows!
 
We have extra grids, so we can turn our 2x5 into a 2x6 cage with dividers. This would be our last resort. We had wondered how to know when to move them into the cage, since they had accepted the hierarchy but hadn't yet bonded. We so hoped they would bond so they could take advantage of the bigger space with room to move around.

I'm wondering if we put them side by side for a week or 2 in 2x6 then try again? Maybe Annabelle won't think the cage is hers especially if we reconfigure it. It seems like they were so close to accepting each other. If we try one last time, and keep them in the neutral zone until they actually bond, have we a hope?

I hate the thought of them having separate free range times if they both end up living in a smaller space. Can they have free range time in the same area, at separate times without having to get rid of all the other piggie scents each time? That's quite a bit of work.
 
Hi again, I think I would agree with @VickiA - I'd they fought to the point that the wounds needed stitches then I wouldn't risk them being together. I know how hard it is to make that decision to split piggies, as we've been through this process twice with different pigs but seeing them relax and popcorn after that was worth it x
 
I really wouldn't risk introducing them again. They have clearly decided they don't like each other as housemates.
 
Thanks for the input. Very sad.
It is sad, but now you'll
Need to look at your options. We stared with 2 pigs. We never planned for more and we will have 6 tomorrow ( will be bringing 2 back all the way from Doncaster tomorrow where they are being bonded with our two singletons). Essentially, we thought we won't be able to accommodate more than two, but with a little planning, some extra cost yes, we can easily cope with 3 cages.
You'll need to see if you can find them friends. I would however leave it to experienced piggie rescues. Not sure where you are based, but rescue locator is on this forum.
If you leave them in the reputable rescue for pig dating they'll ensure they'll match your piggies with new friends with whom they won't fight anymore x can't take more than one attempt ( I know it first hand) but will be worth it.
It's true what everyone says. Once sows decide they don't like each other that's it. We also tried desperately to re-bond our original two and it just didn't work out.

But hey, having 6 pigs is far more fun than having 2 :) ;)
 
Both came from a shelter and had been checked by a vet.
Can I ask what shelter they came from?
Did they offer bonding device ? I'm only asking as I once used PACT in Norfolk and as they don't offer this service I attempted bonding myself. When that failed I faced heartbreaking dilemma what to do with new piggy. They said they'll take it back of course, but after few days bonding I think o was the one who bonded with the boy more than our girl! Haha
Anyways, it's best if rescues do the bonding for you, whatever you may decide to do.
I read you have c&c cage by sound of things and theyre easy to reconfigure X
Good luck
P.S. Just read you're in USA :(
Can't help much on rescues there, but someone like Wiebke on here sure will know more x
 
We adopted our Guinea pigs recently - Annabelle, six weeks ago, and Brownie, 4 weeks ago. We kept them quarantined for 2 weeks before introducing them. We introduced them in a neutral zone and we thought the introduction had gone well. Brownie was clearly dominant and Annabelle was clearly submissive. They slept in the same cage together the first night without incident. The next day, perhaps this was my mistake, I put them in the neutral zone for some free range time. (Although we have a C&C cage 2x 5 grid.) They got along fine, ate out of the same bowl, shared veggie bowls - I got several pictures of them interacting quite peacefully. THEN, when it was time to go back in the cage - rumblestrutting, teeth chattering, etc. I put them back in the neutral zone where they seemed to get along. An hour later I tried again to get them back in the cage, with no luck.

I kept them in the neutral zone the rest of the day until someone else was home to help me with them. We put them in the cage and tried not to interfere, but the teeth chattering, rumble strutting didn't stop and eventually Annabelle & Brownie had an all out brawl. We got them separated, but both piggies were injured - Annabelle needed stitches, and both needed antibiotics.

It's been about 2 weeks since that incident, and since that time, they've been in separate cages right next to each other. We think that perhaps Annabelle, although at first submissive, became territorial because I hadn't gotten the cage cleaned properly with a vinegar solution. We tried to re-introduce them today - in a different neutral zone. Again Annabelle was clearly submissive and Brownie was clearly dominant. (Annabelle acted more fearful than submissive, perhaps.). Anyway, we kept them in the neutral zone for several hours. They seemed to have worked things out - a lot of butt sniffing & chasing, a nip now & then. They took a couple of naps, albeit on opposite sides of the neutral zone, and it appeared Annabelle had accepted the hierarchy.

This time I washed everything in Annabelle's cage with vinegar solution. I washed the cage and choroplast with vinegar solution. I put a different blanket down for the floor, different food dishes,etc. We didn't put any hidey's in at all. When we put them in the cage, they were a little more aggressive with teeth chattering, but we held towels between them until they settled down. And in fact they did. They even laid down in opposite corners to take a nap. At some point Brownie got up and nudged Annabelle out of her spot. That's when the non stop teeth chattering started all over again.

Since they'd had a brawl with injuries before, we didn't want to take a chance this would escalate. We put them back in the neutral zone and they were ok for a short while, but then they seemed to go into attack mode again - teeth chattering, rumble strutting, facing each other. So we put them in separate cages again before a brawl could break out.

Is it worth trying to reintroduce them in the neutral zone again? If so, should we do it right away or should we wait a week or two? If neither of them use the "mutual" cage in the interim, do I need to wash it all down again, since it has both their scents in it? If we re-introduce, do we need to do it in a different neutral zone, since they've already been aggressive in the one we prepared today? We're going to try to reconfigure the "mutual" cage or possibly move it to a different location so Annabelle, won't get territorial. Do you think this will work?

They don't seem to hate each other. They are both "nervous nellies" and Annabelle generally seems to accept Brownie as the boss until something makes her feel territorial. Any ideas?

To be honest, once piggies have decided they don't like the other party, they very rarely change their mind. personally, I would prepare plan B (permanent separation) rather than try another intro again ( it doesn't matter where, as long as it is not part of their usual territory where one party is at an disadvantage). Guinea pigs are like people; not all will get on; that goes for sows as well as boars.
Illustrated Bonding Behaviours And Dynamics
 
image.webp image.webp
Here's a photo from their first introduction two weeks ago and also one from today after we put them in a divided 2x6 cage. Little bit of teeth chattering at first. But have now settled down. We're still not convinced that they don't like each other, but at least they can get to know each other without the nervous "fear aggression". If we are ever able to get these two together, we'll let you know. Thanks for all the input.
 
Your cage is lovely and they can totally still see each other and interact. x
Observe them and see what happens. I think they'll settle and be more relaxed with the divider. Plus then you'll have an excuse to get 2 more pigs ;) ;)
Kidding, it has to be an informed decision if you do decide so x
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top