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Toast Needs Yet Another Dental Op.

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Beans&Toast

Beans&Toast

Adult Guinea Pig
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Toast is booked in for Thursday to have her teeth done again, but I don't know if it's the right thing to go ahead with it.

This will be the 5th time in just over a year and the 2nd time in the space of 3 months. She has almost constant bloat which seems to be causing dental issues. Or maybe it's the other way around, the dental issues are causing bloat, I'm not sure but it's a vicious cycle that I can't get her out of. She'll be doing really well bloat wise then suddenly she's bloated again, which seems to then cause her to chew funny, which causes even more bloat issues. They come on at the same time so I can't work it out.


For a week or so now she chews to the side sometimes and seems to struggle chewing veg and hay, but then other times she seems to manage fine. I don't understand it.

She reacts very badly to GA and every time she's had it its taken a week to recover from, resulting in gut stasis and then overgrown teeth again meaning we're back to square 1. So for her last dental, the vet didn't use any injectables, just a wiff of gas and she coped amazingly with it, she wasn't off her food after or anything. I'm hoping she will be the same again and sail through it, but I'm so scared of having her under anesthetic.


Do you think it's the right thing to do? It won't be a full GA as such, just as light a wiff of gas as they can get away with. I'm panicking. I'm also worried that this problem doesn't seem to be resolving itself. Why does she keep getting bloated and having dental problems? I can't keep putting her through dentals...

Unfortunately due to where I live and finances etc, going to see Simon Maddock isn't even a slight possibly.


I'm looking at her now and she's happily munching on some hay, doesn't seem to be chewing weird at all. But yesterday she was struggling to chew a small bit of coriander. I don't know what to do for the best, I'm terrified that if the worst happens and she doesn't wake up from it then I've put her through all this for nothing. :(
 
Oh gosh, I really feel for you.
Is she bloated at the moment? You mention that the teeth issue causes her bloat, but also the GA, but the gas didn't. Hopefully she will just have the gas again this time being as she took that well.
I'm tagging @TEAS
 
She's going between mildly to moderately bloated right now. 2 weeks ago after a medicine change she wasn't bloated in the slightest and was doing so well for about 6 days, then out of nowhere she bloated.

Sometimes I think that because she doesn't tend to eat as much hay when she's bloated, that this is the reason for her dental problems. But then other times it seems that she only gets bloated after struggling to chew properly.

My vet is very good, but even he has reached his limits of what he thinks he can do for her. He can keep fixing her teeth when they overgrown but that isn't getting to the bottom of the bloat/dental problem.


She did cope very well with the gas so I'm hoping that it's the same again but I'm so scared I'm making the wrong decision by having this done again. I'm almost hoping there is something wrong with her teeth so it justifies the anesthetic, if that makes sense...
 
Have they done full x rays before on her ? A full set of x rays (Side & from above) wold be very useful to see if there are any internal reasons for the bloat & also to see if there are changes in her jaw which could be causing teeth problems. That is what happened with my little girl, she started chewing on one side & x rays showed she had the start of an abscess in her jaw where she had long tooth roots. Unfortunately it had caused permanent changes so she has to have conscious dentals every 2 weeks now. Simon is away until 18th April I believe, but I am sure we could manage to get her to him, we have transported various piggies via Piggy Train to TEAs in the past. I would be happy to help get her to him, I have helped a few to get to see Simon in the past x
 
Poppy'sMum said:
Have they done full x rays before on her ? A full set of x rays (Side & from above) wold be very useful to see if there are any internal reasons for the bloat & also to see if there are changes in her jaw which could be causing teeth problems. That is what happened with my little girl, she started chewing on one side & x rays showed she had the start of an abscess in her jaw where she had long tooth roots. Unfortunately it had caused permanent changes so she has to have conscious dentals every 2 weeks now. Simon is away until 18th April I believe, but I am sure we could manage to get her to him, we have transported various piggies via Piggy Train to TEAs in the past. I would be happy to help get her to him, I have helped a few to get to see Simon in the past x
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They've took xrays and see no reason as to why she keeps getting bloated. My vet mentioned that he's reached his limit on what he can do for her, he can give her meds to help ease the bloat but he's tried everything for over a year and the only thing he can recommend now is some kind of scan in Edinburgh at a specialist place (cannot remember what it was) but it would cost a fortune.

The last time they took dental xrays he did mention something about elongated roots? But that it wasn't anything to be overly concerned about.
We've also noticed that for a couple of weeks now, she keeps getting a build up of gunk on her top and bottom insissors, at the gum, if that makes sense? This is a new thing and have no idea how or why it's happening?


Thank you so much that's so kind. But my worry with Toast is that I don't think she'd cope with that kind of journey. She doesn't cope well without Beans at all, going to the vets for a quick check up, taking around 30 minutes results in her being so stressed that she gets bloated, which causes a flare up of cystitis. She doesn't like to be handled by anyone else but me, (seriously) she gets so agitated and stressed to the point where her breathing gets really rapid.

I also wouldn't be able to afford getting her there, on top of vet costs once there.

Then my last worry, even if I could get her there to see Simon... what if she requires constant work? There's no way I'd be able to get her there every 2 weeks, it just wouldn't be possible. So what then?

This is so stressful :(
 
I quite understand, my little girl is now a permanent resident at TEAs due to the frequency of the dental work. I took the really difficult decision that she would be better off with piggy friends there than alone with us here after my elderly heart piggy died in February, It has been the most difficult decision to make but I had to do it for her sake. However it is quite rare that they need such frequent treatment, it is more likely that after a couple of dentals with Simon that he could get your piggy's teeth sorted for her. If we get a piggy train sorted to get her to him then you are really only looking at the cost of treatment. Or you could bring her by train if that is possible x
 
Nothing constructive to add, but wanted to let you know that we are thinking of you and the lovely Miss Toast - you know she is one of our favorites.
 
Poppy'sMum said:
I quite understand, my little girl is now a permanent resident at TEAs due to the frequency of the dental work. I took the really difficult decision that she would be better off with piggy friends there than alone with us here after my elderly heart piggy died in February, It has been the most difficult decision to make but I had to do it for her sake. However it is quite rare that they need such frequent treatment, it is more likely that after a couple of dentals with Simon that he could get your piggy's teeth sorted for her. If we get a piggy train sorted to get her to him then you are really only looking at the cost of treatment. Or you could bring her by train if that is possible x
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What is it that Simon can do that other vets can't? Apart from the conscious dental part.. (That sounds cheeky but I don't mean it that way!)

Even if we could get her there for the initial check up, between work and looking after my Mum I wouldn't be able to keep getting her there and back for check ups. Plus Beans would be absolutely lost without her, and vice versa. How do people manage this traveling back and forth?


Is it possible for my vet and Simon to speak? Is that something that vets do? I don't know, I'm just trying to think of every possibility..
 
Simon is probably the most experienced dental vet for piggies in the country, he can spot stuff other vets can't that's for sure. For my piggy without him she would have had dentals every fortnight under GA, eventually her heart would have given out whilst under. The alternative was pts :( So I didn't have any choice as you can see. I was very lucky that Debbie could offer her a permanent place at TEAs. However her case is the least likely scenario; the majority of piggies can be totally cured once they have regular dentals. It might mean Toast having a temporary stay at TEAs with Beans for a couple of weeks. It might take just a couple of dentals to sort her teeth out. I really suggest you have a chat with Debbie before you decide to get her teeth done under GA x @furryfriends (TEAS)
 
I would absolutely love to get Toast to Simon. My concerns are;

Toast does not cope well without me, or without Beans. I have to go away for work for a couple days at a time sometimes and she always goes downhill when I leave. She's actually on a moderate dose of Amitriptyline for anxiety/stress.
The times she's had to be separated from Beans, she doesn't manage at all, she pines and paces about looking for her then squeals until she's back with her.

She cannot cope with loud noses, strange smells or anything/anyone she doesn't recognise. When I take her to the vet and he has to examine her, I usually have to leave the room as she struggles and tries to jump back to me.
He once attempted a conscious dental (he has done these in the past but not anymore)but he had to stop as she was so frantic and stressed he was worried she would have a heart attack.


Is it not possible that Simon wouldn't be able to do this without GA/gas, anyway?
 
Simon has a dedicated vet nurse hold them whilst he does the dental so there is no worry about her wriggling free. It is a concern that Toast has to have medication for her stress of course & it may be that your vet could speak to him when he is back from holiday so they can decide what options they can offer you between them. There's nothing to stop your vet from emailing Simon in the meantime though for advice, particularly as he has now run out of options for treatment x
 
Can I add that when my dental pig underwent GA for her teeth at my own vets, she took 6 days to eat properly again, once she saw Simon, she literally ate food as soon as she got home. I think you need to look at what alternatives you have & weigh up the risk of her being away from you to the risk of a GA every few weeks x
 
Poppy'sMum said:
Can I add that when my dental pig underwent GA for her teeth at my own vets, she took 6 days to eat properly again, once she saw Simon, she literally ate food as soon as she got home. I think you need to look at what alternatives you have & weigh up the risk of her being away from you to the risk of a GA every few weeks x
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Luckily the last dental Toast had, with gas not GA, she coped amazingly and was eating hay literally within minutes of me getting her home and back in the cage.

I'm going to phone my vet tomorrow and ask to go in and speak to him about all of this. Is it a "normal" thing to ask a vet to get in touch with another vet for advice/options? I just don't want to suggest it only to be told that's not something he'd do..?

If I knew that going to see Simon would fix her issues and she'd be fine then I'd do it in a heartbeat. My concerns are with Toast being so nervous that I'm not sure she'd even cope with this conscious dental work, especially how she reacted when he attempted to do it himself once. And what what happen with Beans? Would she go too? How would that work with them both being on a fair amount of medication, how much would it cost to have them stay temporarily?

Should I email/phone Simon or Debbie myself before speaking to my own vet to see what they think? This is all a lot to take it and sort out, thanks so much for taking the time to help x
 
I have tagged Furryfriends to this thread so hopefully she will see it & advise you more :) If she doesn't reply on here then I would send her a pm. She does have several poorly piggies at the moment so she might not be on here until tomorrow now. If you do decide to get them to Simon then we would be able to sort out transport I am sure. Stewybus co-ordinated previous trips to TEAs so hopefully he could help out :) We are all very experienced syringe feeding/giving meds etc too x
 
Poppy'sMum said:
I have tagged Furryfriends to this thread so hopefully she will see it & advise you more :) If she doesn't reply on here then I would send her a pm. She does have several poorly piggies at the moment so she might not be on here until tomorrow now. If you do decide to get them to Simon then we would be able to sort out transport I am sure. Stewybus co-ordinated previous trips to TEAs so hopefully he could help out :) We are all very experienced syringe feeding/giving meds etc too x
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I'm in Scotland though is that still possible? Thanks so much I cannot tell you how much I appreciate all this help. I'll wait until tomorrow and see, I know everyone is busy with their own lives/piggies so I don't expect any responses right away. I'll phone my vet tomorrow and discuss everything we've talked about x
 
Well Stewy is up north by quite a long way (Stockton on Tees) I can do part of an A1 run & last time we got another lady to take the piggy from me to TEAs :) I could do that trip as well though if need be. It might involve a stop over night somewhere maybe, because of the distance. I am now pigless but I have yet to dismantle my 5 x 2 C & C :) It came into use over the weekend for the girls I transported to Carnival Piggy & I was planning to dismantle it all after that but I could leave it up a bit longer if needed ;) x
 
I also think that Debbie has someone already that comes down from Scotland, or did, they made the trip themselves but they still came all that way to see Simon :) x
 
I don't even know how I'd go about trying to organise something like this. It's about a 700 mile round trip if in was to drive it, apart from the fact that I couldn't afford the petrol.. what would I do with the pigs? Like you say it's a big distance so I'd probably need to make a stop... where would I put them? :P

I'd like to see if my vet would get in touch with Simon even just for advice or what he'd recommend we do?

I have a horrible feeling about this. I don't even know if her teeth do need treating again, the only way to know for sure is to get her in for a good look, which unfortunately means using gas for my vet.
I'm going to phone first thing tomorrow to arrange something. X
 
Simon is away in holiday until the 18th (I think) so you won't be able to speak to him yet.

Have a word with TEAS to see if they have space and the capacity for another resident. They can also give you advice on the dental work and how recovery will work.

I've been part of a piggy train before so there should be plenty of people around to help out if it goes ahead. I think one of the pigs I transported was from Scotland.

I've also had one stay at my house overnight as part of a train so that's an option too.
 
Simon will be back in work on Tuesday 18th April. Maybe suggest your vet contacts him. As Simon will be very busy when he returns to work, it will probably be best for your vet to email initially. [email protected] Mark for the attention of Simon.

Unfortunately we are unable to take any further temporary residents at TEAS, at this time. We are currently at our maximum number and as I work full time, in addition to running TEAS, I have to ensure that I can provide the care needed by individual guinea pigs.

There is a Cat and Rabbit Clinic long distance clients Facebook group, that you may wish to join. It was set up to allow clients who travel, to buddy up with others, who also travel, in their local area.

Se connecter à Facebook | Facebook
 
aww bless you.... hope you get sorted, it must be very draining for you and little Toast xx
 
I've got up this morning to find Toast struggling to chew a nugget, she was pawing at her mouth afterwards. She's also drinking a lot more water than normal, something she does when her teeth are bothering her.

I'm not sure if this can wait until Simon is back, then trying to organise getting to him...

Is there really no other vet who is confident with conscious dental work apart from Simon?

I'm pretty confident with my vets, it's the fact that he doesn't do it conscious. I'm so worried about putting her under again, although the last time was about 2 months ago and it went well..
 
It's not just the fact that Simon does conscious dental work, but his knowledge and skill at getting the mouth exactly right, which is resulting in a complete cure for so many guinea pigs with dental disease. If you had asked me a few years ago if dental disease in guinea pigs could be cured, I would've said no, but it can be managed very well. However, now Simon is getting a cure with many of the piggies he sees. It is a case of 'practice makes perfect' and he sees more guinea pigs with dental disease than any other vet.
 
I think it's going to be a case of ring around all of the vets that you're willing to travel to, to try to find a vet that is more experienced with dentals.

When I first moved to Leicester one of my first jobs was to email/call all of the vets in the area to find a guinea pig vet. Don't feel silly or awkward about asking them for their experience, I found most to be quite honest in telling me that their experiences with pigs wasn't great.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
It's not just the fact that Simon does conscious dental work, but his knowledge and skill at getting the mouth exactly right, which is resulting in a complete cure for so many guinea pigs with dental disease. If you had asked me a few years ago if dental disease in guinea pigs could be cured, I would've said no, but it can be managed very well. However, now Simon is getting a cure with many of the piggies he sees. It is a case of 'practice makes perfect' and he sees more guinea pigs with dental disease than any other vet.
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Id love to get her to Simon. I just don't know how I'd be able to get her back and forth from Scotland. Possibly for the initial visit but I don't know how I'd be able to go back and forth a week or 2 weeks later for check ups. And taking all things into account, I really don't know if she'd handle the journey. She gets severely bloated from stress of being handled by someone she doesn't know. I don't know how she'd cope with this kind of thing.


Is there really no vet in Scotland/closer than Northampton who has more experience than most vets?
 
I could be completely wrong but I'm sure there's a vet somewhere in the North East of England that's better than average, but not Simon. I know there wasn't when I lived there but it could have changed.

Try PM'ing StewyBus to see if he can think of who it is.
 
I've spoke with my vet, he's really busy so I've to take Toast in on Thursday for her consultation before her dental and we'll discuss everything then, and possibly not go ahead with the dental.

Thanks so much to everyone who is giving me advise and offered to help transport Toast to Simon if need be, I cannot tell you all how much I appreciate it.
 
Jaycey said:
I could be completely wrong but I'm sure there's a vet somewhere in the North East of England that's better than average, but not Simon. I know there wasn't when I lived there but it could have changed.

Try PM'ing StewyBus to see if he can think of who it is.
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In case you do need another option I think Jaycee is correct that a vet Stewybus uses in North East does concious dental work and Stewy recommends them. I haven't used so haven't personal experience but a possible reserve idea?
 
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