To add or not to add?

[amzybabes]

Hopefully some of the more experienced 'introducers' on the forum can advise! Bit of a long query, but wanted to include all the relevant details I could think of!

We're currently debating on adding a third little piggie to our current pair, but are not sure it's the best course of action?

We have 2 girls, approx 15 weeks old. We brought them home about a month ago. One (Biscuit) is quite a lively girl, very nosey and boisterous, and when we first got them quickly established she was boss of the cage (chasing Crumble away from food, water, hideys etc), being quite vocal and appearing to lunge/nip Crumble, however no injuried were sustained (so thinking she#s mopre bark than bite!). However, within a few days this settled down. Both girls seem fairly friendly now, and tend to take turns rumbling at each other and chasing round the cage (I'm taking this as 'play' now!?), eating together, occassional licking. They both seem very happy generally - Crumble is still the most skittish with us, but seems happy with Biscuit (has a habit of stealing food while Biscuit is mid-munch!), and will go looking (and squeaking) for Biscuit if we take Biscuit out for a cuddle without her.

So, we have a happy little duo, who have recently had a huge cage extension. Having read lots on the forum regarding rescue piggies, we thought how nice it would be to give a pig in need a home, as we have the space. Also thought that our girls might enjoy having a slightly bigger 'herd'. (Crumble in particular might enjoy a pig who was more 'cuddley' with her, as Biscuit likes to sleep solo!)...if we can get them to accept another pig into the mix?

I've read lots of the posts about how to introduce etc, but what do people think about the current situation? Any similar experiences? Do you think it would go well, or am I risking upsetting a good pairing?

I had thought a young, easy-going sow would be the most likely to be successful. So long as she let Biscuit be the boss I think they'd be ok...? Could consider a neutered boar, but wonder if my bossy girl would like that?

The girls are still quite young themselves, so thought if I'm going to add it would be better to do it sooner rather than later?

 

[Poppy'sMum]

Sorry I can't help but will watch this thread with interest as I have a trio which looks like I may have to get a friend for the lonesome piggy Daisy as I feel she is at the bottom of the pecking order, often is on her own & one of the others is chasing her away quite a lot at the moment. Daisy is recovering from surgery after an abscess was removed this week probably due to a bite wound.

I've never had a trio before & am wondering if I did the right thing as I wonder if pairs are more successful.

 

[Wiebke]

Trios are great when they work, but much more often than not, they end with an outsider problem, unless you get the character constellation just right. It is generally better to go straight from two to four piggies.

In your situation, introducing a neutered boar might be an option, as he needs to get on with all sows in order to mate and won't in this sense not disrupt the existing hierarchy. The vast majority of young sows will accept a boar; the only exception being mainly young sows with a traumatic (often breeding) past. Otherwise, finding a rescue that allows you to bring your girls to piggy date promising candidates of either gender and introduces them under expert supervision is worth the extra effort, as it can save you quite a few headaches! With girls, you usually know pretty quickly whether things work out or not!

It can happen that even with four piggies you still have one outsider - everything hinges on how the individuals work out with each other; there is just never a guarantee. Piggies are very much like humans in that respect! mallethead

 

[amzybabes]

Thanks, Wiebke, that's definately given me some food fo thought! We could probably go up to 4 guineas I think, but would definately have to think long and hard about it. I'm due to visit a rescue next weekend, so had thought I would chat with them about it. I know they're taking in a pair of girls and also a neutured boy this week. Definately won't be adding any unless I'm happy it's the right thing to do! :-)

 

[Poppy'sMum]

Trios are great when they work, but much more often than not, they end with an outsider problem, unless you get the character constellation just right. It is generally better to go straight from two to four piggies.

In your situation, introducing a neutered boar might be an option, as he needs to get on with all sows in order to mate and won't in this sense not disrupt the existing hierarchy. The vast majority of young sows will accept a boar; the only exception being mainly young sows with a traumatic (often breeding) past. Otherwise, finding a rescue that allows you to bring your girls to piggy date promising candidates of either gender and introduces them under expert supervision is worth the extra effort, as it can save you quite a few headaches! With girls, you usually know pretty quickly whether things work out or not!

It can happen that even with four piggies you still have one outsider - everything hinges on how the individuals work out with each other; there is just never a guarantee. Piggies are very much like humans in that respect! mallethead

I hope Amzybabes won't mind me asking Wiebke (as you are Queen of adding any piggies lol) but I am not sure if I actually have a problem, or whether it's normal piggy herd behaviour as I have never had more than a pair, so do you mind if I ask you a couple questions about my trio, rather than start a new thread as it is more or less the same subject that Amzybabes is seeking answers to?

 

[amzybabes]

I don't mind :-)

 

[Kym]

The piggy in your profile pic I think is one of the most gorgeous piggies I have ever seen! drool

 

[Lady Kelly]

I will just add that I had similar dynamics to you with Bumble and Bea and thought I would introduce a neutered boar for Bumble to cuddle up to and Bea can still have her own space. They bonded within 2 minutes and all get along fine however Bea was quite taken with Peter and spent a lot of time cuddling up to him which still left Bumble on her own. A few months later I decided to take on another girl so there is an even number and hopefully should Bumble wish to cuddle up with anyone she can do

 

[Poppy'sMum]

Thanks Amzybabes

Wiebke (or anyone else) I have a Mum & daughter & an "odd bod" Aby.

Chubster pig (Mum) is nearly 2, Daisy (baby daughter in my pic) aged 6 months & the odd bod Aby, Ziggy aged 7 months.

Chubster is lovely natured & gets on with both of the other two.

After a week when I first got them, Ziggy tried to dominate Chubbs, not a good idea & there was much chin ups & chasing. For 3 days it was pretty nerve-wracking :... Ziggy & Daisy didn't seem to hit it off well, there was hissing (never heard that before then!) chin ups, nipping & chasing, no blood drawn, all ears intact rolleyes

After the 4th day it seemed to settle, with Daisy & Ziggy tolerating each other really.

Now Ziggy seems to be jealous of Daisy, she will chase her out of her bed, Daisy will squeak & although no obvious biting, Daisy had an abscess operated on this week & we can only put it down to Ziggy biting her bum!

Is this normal? Daisy was separate the night of her op, a day after bathing them, she was in the same cage but separated by grids so they could see each other. I had to let Daisy in with them the second night as she was frantically digging & biting the bars to get back with them rolleyes

Now I have tried the Vicks on Ziggy's nose & Daisy's bum, it helped before but not this time it seems.

I am worried Daisy is depressed/lonely, we do have her out for cuddles as she is very friendly so wondered if our smell is upsetting Ziggy?

I can put up a video of them together, they seem happy enough when in the indoor run. Ziggy chases Daisy off a few times in a day, she still gets to eat with them, separate bowls etc. It isn't constant though, is that a good sign?

Any advice appreciated. I can't bath them together at the moment as Daisy's wound has to heal.
Thanks!

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks, Wiebke, that's definately given me some food fo thought! We could probably go up to 4 guineas I think, but would definately have to think long and hard about it. I'm due to visit a rescue next weekend, so had thought I would chat with them about it. I know they're taking in a pair of girls and also a neutured boy this week. Definately won't be adding any unless I'm happy it's the right thing to do! :-)

I dated my two redoubtable three year old cataract sows in Rugby and came home with gentle neutered boar Terfel, who was accepted by both sows straight away. My own trio works because Taffy and Tegyd, the two sows had become best of friends beforehand.
However, you can end up with one sow hanging out with the boar and the other being left out. I had that problem with my sister Nerys and Nia and my old neutered boar Llewelyn, which was why I started the Tribe, and flintstones had the same problem with her two spayed sows Wilma and Pebbles (who were also rehomed from Rugby rescue). She decided to split her sisters and have each of them living with her own boarmate - which has been also working out well.

If you want to go from two to four girls, the safest way is to merge two already bonded pairs of girls of different ages/sizes. That way, you keep any dominance issues between the two top sows at a minimum (minor sows just tend to fit in). In addition, because both pairs are bonded, you also will have less of a risk of an outsider problem.

 

[amzybabes]

Thanks again for all the above advice. We are still mulling over whether to add to the pair or not - it's a tricky one! We might end up leaving it as a duo...we're due to visit a rescue next weekend, so might still go along and discuss the issue with them/see which guineas are available and how that might effect any choices we make, and take it from there!

And thanks, Kym - Biscuit is a lovely little piggie (if a bit crazy!), we fell in love with her on sight :-)