This dose of loxicom must be pure placebo?

[aly13]

One of my pigs had a sebaceous cyst removed today and the vets gave us 0.03 of cat loxicom ONCE daily..Surely this wont do anything at all! Our old vet didnt want to give us anything but once asked would give dog loxicom and a decent filled bottle. This is in a tiny tiny vial, I imagine it would take the entire vial for a decent dose. Pretty upset about this, I know she shouldnt be in too much pain as it wasnt a very invasive surgery but this just seems like a joke to even give that little. They are supposed to be knowledgeable about other small animals like rabbits too so its not as if its a solely dog/cat vet.

 

[piggl]

How old is piggy and how much does she weigh?
It does sound like a unbelievably low dose but it goes off their weight (in kg)

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes that dose isn’t going to do much at all - hopefully she isn’t in any pain

 

[aly13]

How old is piggy and how much does she weigh?
It does sound like a unbelievably low dose but it goes off their weight (in kg)

Hi she is 3 and a half and weighs about 920-940 grams. I'm going to be phoning them about it but I'm not sure if theres any proper research papers I can use to prove what I'm saying apart from citing what I know cavy savvy vets in the UK do.

 

[aly13]

Yes that dose isn’t going to do much at all - hopefully she isn’t in any pain

Its not a very big wound but I had wanted to make sure she wasnt in any pain at all for at least a few days afterwards Shes our favourite pig

 

[Bill & Ted]

Has the vet got the decimal place wrong? Even 0.3ml would be a tiny dose of Cat Metacam

My go to dose of dog metacam is usually 0.3 or 0.4ml x 2 per day! Of course that’s from an experienced Guinea pig vet

 

[aly13]

Has the vet got the decimal place wrong? Even 0.3ml would be a tiny dose of Cat Metacam

My go to dose of dog metacam is usually 0.3 or 0.4ml x 2 per day! Of course that’s from an experienced Guinea pig vet

No they havent, I can tell because the amount they gave in a tiny vial is so small. If i gave 0.3 it wouldn't last more than a day or two

 

[Bill & Ted]

No they havent, I can tell because the amount they gave in a tiny vial is so small. If i gave 0.3 it wouldn't last more than a day or two

I think they can’t calculate the dosage right to me. This a silly amount, do ring and complain tomorrow. Your little piggie deserves to be as pain free as possible and you will have paid dearly for it no doubt

 

[piggl]

Hi she is 3 and a half and weighs about 920-940 grams. I'm going to be phoning them about it but I'm not sure if theres any proper research papers I can use to prove what I'm saying apart from citing what I know cavy savvy vets in the UK do.

That’s definitely a silly amount. Basically it’s worked out at a certain percentage, per kg every 12 hours.

Did they work it out infront of you? At my vets they always get a BVSA book out which has the doses for piggies and does the calculations based on my pigs weight at that time.
I have a 7 month old boar who weighs the same as your girl and the lowest he got was 0.17 of cat metacam once a day, and even that was on the very low end. He ended up being moved to 0.52ml as we found his low dose wasn’t doing anything at all, nevermind what they have given your girl.

 

[aly13]

That’s definitely a silly amount. Basically it’s worked out at a certain percentage, per kg every 12 hours.

Did they work it out infront of you? At my vets they always get a BVSA book out which has the doses for piggies and does the calculations based on my pigs weight at that time.
I have a 7 month old boar who weighs the same as your girl and the lowest he got was 0.17 of cat metacam once a day, and even that was on the very low end. He ended up being moved to 0.52ml as we found his low dose wasn’t doing anything at all, nevermind what they have given your girl.

They also dont want it every twelve hours, only once a day. Thanks for the info! I think I'll definitely be saying Id like at least 0.3 twice daily Its tough because I live rurally and theres really no other options for vets here. None are well versed in piggies/buns etc.

 

[piggieminder]

No they havent, I can tell because the amount they gave in a tiny vial is so small. If i gave 0.3 it wouldn't last more than a day or two

I would definitely ring and check the dose. I suspect the decimal point is in the wrong place like Bill&Ted mentioned. They wouldn't expect her to need it for more than a day or two as it wasn't an invasive surgery.

 

[aly13]

I would definitely ring and check the dose. I suspect the decimal point is in the wrong place like Bill&Ted mentioned. They wouldn't expect her to need it for more than a day or two as it wasn't an invasive surgery.

Alright I'll definitely double check if they made a mistake firstly. What should I say if they say yes that's the correct dose?

 

[Wiebke]

They also dont want it every twelve hours, only once a day. Thanks for the info! I think I'll definitely be saying Id like at least 0.3 twice daily Its tough because I live rurally and theres really no other options for vets here. None are well versed in piggies/buns etc.

Hi

Once daily is fine for low dosages (they have more impact this way) and it also works for low to medium metacam for chronic issues but your dosage is the lowest I have ever come across. That is less than just one drop, which is about 0.05 ml.
Guinea pigs metabolise food/medicine differently to other pets (there is currently some medical research going on into that) which means that they need much higher dosages than other species; they also tolerate metacam a lot better, including over long spells.

Only in major acute and or chronic high level pain is it better to give a higher level of metacam every 12 hours.

I currently have got two arthritic sows I get away with with once daily metacam but my oldest and most advanced sow at coming up to 7 years needs her metacam twice daily to maintain her appetite/weight. It can sometimes help to work out which way is better at the time for any piggy in pain, acute or chronic to give them the appropriate level of relief they need.
Weight loss/loss of appetite is one of the pointers when dealing with an ongoing pain issue. I use that for managing my especially my piggies on long term metacam to up the dosage whenever that becomes necessary.

 

[piggieminder]

You could suggest it's not enough and ask they look it up for future reference. It's a difficult one.

 

[Bill & Ted]

You definitely need to question the dose, I understand this is difficult, but I think their calculation is wrong by a decimal point (although they probably won’t admit to this)

 

[eileen]

It's a real shame that cat metacam is endorsed for piggies.It means alot of piggies are suffering in pain.
I'm lucky I will travel to a vet that prescribes dog loxicom.Vets are failing these small animals.
If you are able to look on the guinea pig vets website,she has a good article on pain in guinea pigs.maybe if you feel able you could show your vet this.You can email the guinea pig vet matlock Derwent vets.The guinea pig vet I'm sure would be willing to liase with your vets.
I'm sorry you are going through this.

 

[aly13]

It's a real shame that cat metacam is endorsed for piggies.It means alot of piggies are suffering in pain.
I'm lucky I will travel to a vet that prescribes dog loxicom.Vets are failing these small animals.
If you are able to look on the guinea pig vets website,she has a good article on pain in guinea pigs.maybe if you feel able you could show your vet this.You can email the guinea pig vet matlock Derwent vets.The guinea pig vet I'm sure would be willing to liase with your vets.
I'm sorry you are going through this.

Thanks I hadnt heard of her, will consider reaching out to ask if she would liase. I reached out to the cat & rabbit clinic before as id heard such great things on here but they said they couldnt/wouldnt advise other vets and couldnt help us

 

[eileen]

She has liased for me when I had to go to a local vet,due to car needing repairs.There is no harm in asking.The article/blog is good.
Good luck.

 

[aly13]

Hi again all, I asked the vets and they said the 0.03 is correct. I explained how at my last vet i always got dog loxicom and the dose so to get not even 0.1 of the cat version which is three times less is crazy and i asked if they would consider upping it and she said no. She didnt really care what I was saying and just kept saying "yeah its a tiny amount but thats correct". I guess I'm now going to have to try going back to my old vet even though he got annoyed with us when we had to get a piggy treated by another vet because he wasnt contacting us back.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I would bite the bullet next time and go back to your other vet. That’s so disappointing to her she wouldn’t increase the dosage. So sorry for you and your little piggie

 

[eileen]

That has put you in a difficult position.Are there any guinea pig rescues near you?maybe you could ask them what vets they use.
I hope your piggie is okay.

 

[aly13]

That has put you in a difficult position.Are there any guinea pig rescues near you?maybe you could ask them what vets they use.
I hope your piggie is okay.

Yes it has..our old vet wont see us again. I have reached out to one rescue lady who posted about guinea pigs before, just waiting on a reply to see if she had any other vet suggestions. Theres a handful of other vets ive bookmarked but even if they accept gpigs the chances arent good that they would be any good (at least a couple of other vets treat infections with once or twice off antibiotic injections instead of a course of oral meds for instance). I have to just try and get through the next few years with the pigs i have but beyond that I wont be able to continue having them due to this lack of medical care where I live

 

[Qualcast&Flymo]

Would your vet consider using a different pain relief such as tramadol or gabapentin?
I'm sorry you're having such difficulty accessing effective treatment for your piggies

Edited to add: I just read your first post and I guess gabapentin or tramadol would be over the top for after removing a sebaceous cyst, but maybe they would be an alternative if needed in future.

 

[aly13]

Didnt want to clutter with a new thread so adding on here..She was fine for the first week but has been chewing at the glue on her wound. Brought her for a vet check yesterday and they said it wasnt infected or anything but yea the glue must be irritating her maybe as her hair grows in but that it should be ok even if she removes the glue as they used internal stitches under that.

She now has half of the glue off. My main concern is will she be happy once she removes all the glue or will she still be obsessed with going at it. Its a relatively minor surgery but I'm so stressed since she has been at it And no shes not on any meds now and even if we asked they would only give us the same 0.003 cat lox again. I hope its not too painful and its mainly itchy/irritating thats making her go at the glue..Has this happened to anyone else? Searching about glue on here mainly yields lots of boar glue posts haha

 

[Wiebke]

Didnt want to clutter with a new thread so adding on here..She was fine for the first week but has been chewing at the glue on her wound. Brought her for a vet check yesterday and they said it wasnt infected or anything but yea the glue must be irritating her maybe as her hair grows in but that it should be ok even if she removes the glue as they used internal stitches under that.

She now has half of the glue off. My main concern is will she be happy once she removes all the glue or will she still be obsessed with going at it. Its a relatively minor surgery but I'm so stressed since she has been at it And no shes not on any meds now and even if we asked they would only give us the same 0.003 cat lox again. I hope its not too painful and its mainly itchy/irritating thats making her go at the glue..Has this happened to anyone else? Searching about glue on here mainly yields lots of boar glue posts haha

Hi

Has the operation scar knitted underneath the surgical glue (takes about 10-14 days)? Generally, piggies ignore any operation scars unless there is discomfort/pain but the biting open usually happens in the first couple of days after birth or if the healing process is not happening for some reason.

 

[aly13]

Hi

Has the operation scar knitted underneath the surgical glue (takes about 10-14 days)? Generally, piggies ignore any operation scars unless there is discomfort/pain but the biting open usually happens in the first couple of days after birth or if the healing process is not happening for some reason.

The vet said she thinks the stitches should be strong enough underneath. And yeah she didnt touch it for the first 7 days which is why I suspect its not pain and its because it started the itchy phase of healing which irritated her. The next couple of days should tell if she leaves the rest of the wound alone now

 

[Wiebke]

The vet said she thinks the stitches should be strong enough underneath. And yeah she didnt touch it for the first 7 days which is why I suspect its not pain and its because it started the itchy phase of healing which irritated her. The next couple of days should tell if she leaves the rest of the wound alone now

It is likely just a bit superficial dead skin that is currently itching. I would not worry because the scar underneath should be mostly knitted by now and won't come apart.

 

[aly13]

It is likely just a bit superficial dead skin that is currently itching. I would not worry because the scar underneath should be mostly knitted by now and won't come apart.

Thanks for the reassurance! I really worry so much about my piggies

 

[Bill & Ted]

Thanks for the reassurance! I really worry so much about my piggies

That’s because you love them so much x